JTGuevara.9018

Seriously! I've found another issue with 2v2. Switching. WHY do people insist on being stupid and switching during the match or close to the start of it?! The match countdown is shorter than in conquest. By the time the person logs back in, the other person is already in the match going 1v2 or about to lose!

Seriously, just ban that nonsense! Don't allow people to switch! It's 2v2, the character you get is the character you get for the match. PERIOD.

I've been on too many of these situations ever since the inauguration of 2v2, 5 times. The other person decides to switch and I get to face both players by myself...

I think we all deep down know the REAL reason why raids attract a small audience and will KEEP attracting that small audience are:

1. Barrier of entry------Getting 10-20 whatever people on in voice comms is a logistic and organizational challenge. They all have to be on simultaneously and in the same timezone and keep their mouths shut enough while raids and such mechanics are being explained. Getting new players in is also a great challenge.

2. Time constraints------These things take a while!

3. Min-max culture------Raids inherently encourage a min-max culture where eventually people will figure out and dissect the entire encounter enough where there are optimal builds and allows for people to exclude others if they don't reach near optimal numbers or even reliable kills and clears. I KNOW people here will say otherwise, but that is the reality of it. I witnessed it firsthand in my guild.

4. Raids eventually become farmable at some point------ As with all endgame pve content, eventually it will become streamlined enough to where it becomes easy to farm with the "right" group. After that, there's really nothing more to experience. Raids just become stale after that point.

5. The juice isn't worth the squeeze-----Really the only reason to raid is: rewards. Social experience, enjoyment? I doubt it. I truly doubt that most people enjoy it enough to do it constantly, even with friends. The fact of the matter is: you need 10 friends! Also, there is a such a thing as "burnout" after all.

My source for all this is: myself. I raided for a couple of months in my guild. I learned the encounters, practiced golem rotations, looked at guides before I began. I kept my mouth shut on the discord channels and did my best to help groups. I did all that the community said I needed to do. I killed some bosses: Kairn, VG, Slothasor, Gorse, Samarog, Bandits, Overseer, got the killproofs. It was...ok at times...only because it was something new to learn. Also, because there was really nothing else to look forward to in gw2. (spvp/wvw update hadn't come yet) Once the spvp/wvw update came, I quit raiding for good and went straight into pvp again. Endgame pve became stale and boring, as with all MMO endgame pve at some point.

Also, this min-max culture is infecting fractals, even in lower tiers. THAT to me is unacceptable. Then again, I suppose that's par for the course when pve has become the focus of gw2 for so many years, at pvp's expense. I lament for MMOs that always chase the WoW model of attracting endgame pvers. That's a losing game.

As an MMORPG player, this is a big concern I've had for a while over the years. It really seems that the MMO is emphasized over the RPG, and that's a shame. In gw2, some of the areas, I feel lack....life...culture. There are limited ways to immerse and interact with the world outside of combat and dynamic events. For example, music, dance, art. There's just a lack of meaningful community interaction outside of combat and obtaining in-game loot, which again involves combat.

Yes on the CCs! Getting ping-ponged around even as SB ain't no fun!! Also, don't forget the instant 2-3 second rezzes that some classes are capable of that go off every time you down somebody. I go on matches, constantly down someone around 3-4 times PER ROUND only for them to be instantly up. It's just stupid!

That being said, yes! This update has been mostly positive! Let's hope more of these changes come on the 17th.

I used to think that downed state and resurrections weren't an issue. That is...until 2v2.

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Rangers and necros are the biggest culprits of this. The speed at which they rez combined with their downed skills is broken and simply shouldn't exist. This isnt' really a hit specifically against rangers and necros but against any class that can rez super quickly. It shouldn't happen, simple as that.

I've had matches when we constantly down a player like FOUR times only for them to be resurrected in a blink of an eye. It's ridiculous. It promotes bad habits. Period.

Yeah, that's just stupid. That really needs to be fixed!

Yeah, resurrection and downed skills _really_ need to be looked at in 2v2. Ranger and necro are the biggest culprits of this. I'm not trying to pick on them, but their combined recovery in downed state is pretty broken.

I never really looked at downed state skills as an issue until my experience in 2v2. Seriously, a thief and I faced off recently against a soulbeast and a reaper. We downed them both twice with a combined total of four times only for them to constantly rise up again due to ranger pets and necro regen. They came back and won because both of us had skills on cooldown. Needless to say I felt robbed! Before anyone says anything else, can't stomp because of aoes, can't cleave because of regen....what are ya supposed to do?

I'm sorry, but downed skills shouldn't be that powerful, simple as that. This isn't so much a hit on rangers and necros, but rezzes in general.

Downed skills also need to be looked at.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684"

> I must admit that it's also starting to bother me to see people talking about how the patch adressed powercreep when it didn't. It reduced damage and sustain, yes, but powercreep? No.

>

> The abusive use of the word "powercreep" is rampant. Powercreep represent things added in the game after it's release and it's mostly boons, conditions, condi cleanse, ferocity, expertise, concentration... etc. that have been added. The increase of damage and sustain are merely a consequence of the powercreep. ANet adressed the consequences of the "powercreep" in the sPvP/WvW context not the "powercreep" itself.

It did address it. Addressing the effect of powercreep is still addressing powercreep. Still, I agree with you. It's not just damage and sustainability, it is also things like boon creep as you say here. It's also mobility creep. Things like super speed are a nightmare to deal with at times. There is also CC creep.

> @"James.1065" said:

> The only issue I have at the moment are the perma CC chains. When this gets toned down it's going to be a close to perfect sPvP environment!

>

> Either bring back stability to previous levels, reduce stun break CD's or add diminishing returns to CC on a player.

>

> This will fix that issue!

Yeah, CC chains are a problem. I'll be real with that. They haven't changed at all minus the damage.

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> I'm enjoying this patch. I've yet to play guild wars but the forums are entertaining. It's showing exactly what we've been telling people for years, "carried by design"

>

> you know this CC topic came up year's ago right, the same people whining about CC's now are the same people telling people "L2P" back then.. and all it took was for them to remove there easy to access stability for it to become a "Dire" issue. a perfect example of being carried by power creep.

>

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>

You got _that_ right! It _is_ "carried by design". Minus the damage, the CCs haven't even changed at all! If anything, they're right back to where they were before! People will chatter as always, I pay no attention to it.

First off, let me say that this update is magnificent! I couldn't ask for anything more! An end to powercreep, 2v2 ranked, a new armor set.

Still, yes there are flaws. I will give feedback from the queuing perspective. **Don't pug.** I'm serious. Get a friend. Toxic people will remain, but the stakes for losing are higher in 2v2 than in conquest. Going from personal experience, one disgruntled afker or troll can cost you the game.

In a sense, it's a repeat of the first pvp seasons but with 2v2 instead of 5v5. Normally, I'm in support of separate queues in the case of 5v5, but with 2v2, I don't think it's that big of a struggle to get another person to play with. Honestly, it's better off not to pug.

Yes! 2v2 is fantastic! I'm loving every second of it!

However, there are flaws. For instance, from personal experience even though you could, **don't. pug. Get. a. friend.** Seriously, the stakes of the game are _much_ higher than in conquest. If your partner is a troll, afker or toxic individual, you're pretty much guaranteed a loss. Your partner is 50% of the match, lose that chance and you're pretty much toast.

I could not ask for anything better from this pvp update.

- An end to powercreep

- 2v2 ranked queues

- New warlord armor set

I can finally play spvp again and have some damn fun!

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > Give it a rest on these removing amulet threads already.

> >

> > No.

> >

> > The amulets don't make sense with a health tier system.

> >

> > The design is dumb.

> >

> > Probably 95% of the ogs who made this mess are gone and now it's time to make a decision.

> >

> > 1 health tier, or make the tiers meaningful

>

> Why do people think the solution to things is just "**remove this from the game and it will be better!**" rather than explain why something might be problematic in the balance and then discuss potential solutions if their reasoning is valid?

>

> This forum has been chalked full of this repeated nonsense;

>

> "REMOVE MIRAGE"

> "REMOVE DEADEYE"

> "REMOVE FIREBRAND"

> "REMOVE SOULBEAST"

> "REMOVE STEALTH"

> "REMOVE RETALIATION"

> "REMOVE [iNSERT RUNE/SIGIL]"

> "REMOVE BARRIER"

> "REMOVE DOWNSTATE"

> "REMOVE SOLO/DUO QUEUE" (This one is actually valid **technically**, though honestly it has more to do with the fact that its the **only** kitten option in Ranked)

> "REMOVE WARCLAW"

> "REMOVE GLIDING"

> "REMOVE [iNSERT PvP/WvW MAP]"

> "REMOVE TELEPORTS"

> "REMOVE EVADES"

> "REMOVE REVEALED FROM MARKED"

> "REMOVE JUMPING" (Yes this was an actual thing that appeared on these forums)

> "REMOVE FEROCITY"

> "REMOVE CONDI CLEANSE"

> "REMOVE CONDI"

> "REMOVE ARROW CART"

>

> Thats just from **last year** in 2019 if memory serves, at least the ones that I can remember. If you have a problem with some mechanic, map, whatever it doesn't matter what, really you should at least **try** to explain the reasoning coherently, don't go on a salt filled tangent because you're frustrated, and if people challenge the reasoning or question it don't immediately start insulting them or insinuating that they just don't know what they are talking about and you have some sort of secret inside knowledge and expertise on how the game works. More often than not your problem is just fueled by your frustrations and you're not thinking clearly, as is evident by the immediate call to just entirely remove something.

Also, there are cases when removing things are most definitely necessary. To me, I call for the removal of things only if they negatively impact the overall game to the point when people collectively start to leave. But yes, any call for removals other than that are just plain ol' sour grapes!

Ain't it the truth, lmao!

The Glorious set looks depressing except for the boots! I took one good look at this set today and I told myself: "Yes...I am going for this..." **BRING. ON. THE. PATCH**

Uh nope. If anything, ANet needs to stop _giving_ and start _taking_. Balance doesn't just involve giving, it also consists of taking!

The way I see this discussion is: every time a definition is asked of casual and hardcore, you get totally different answers depending on who you ask. There's really no consensus on what these terms means, on the developer, publisher or player level. Everybody's got different answers!

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> With respect to PVP...

>

> As a whole I don’t like any of these changes and the direction the game is going. It’s like backwards development to your game.

>

> I think slowing down the game play and catering to the crowd that was never really that good at the game is the wrong way to go - completely.

>

> I think after all this development time you will see the same people achieving and the same people crying ... except it will be crying about something different, and the game will be less fun for a guy like myself who has been keeping up with the pace of the game through constant development over the years.

>

> I feel like this game is/will lose some of its edge in this update. - The dodge button and the explosiveness and responsiveness of the combat system is what high rank PVP players like in your game. Also the amount of CHOICES.

>

> You guys are removing even more amulets I see on top of this?

>

> Like at one point you have to say enough is enough and and stop changing the game to fit the desires of a certain vocal group of the population.

>

> **At least if you are going to waste development time, cater it to the people that actually excel at your game. Not the ones that barely understand it.**

>

> Cutting down damage, healing, CC, stun breaks - removing even MORE amulets??? INCREASING COOL DOWNS???? ... you are just making the game more slow paced and passive and taking away complexity. It’s straight up removing depth from the game and closing the gap between those that understand and those that don’t.

>

> Yeah you will appeal to the new guys or the guys that never get a clue but you are hard capping the possibilities.

>

> Here’s to hoping for a new XPAC that will RETURN things to their CURRENT power levels. SMDH

Hah! I'm loving this! This quote says it _all_ regarding the current attitude towards this game that I'm against. You know, there are some of us out there who enjoy the slow pace in our pvp games, that does NOT make us any less skilled! As a matter of fact, there's more chances to outplay someone at a slower pace as opposed to being reactive enough to get the first shot. Fast-paced pvp isn't the only way to play, bud.

And lost edge?! What edge? Few people even play this as it stands, and that's because of the one-shot, faceroll, bs and no team queues. The powercreep has literally driven people out. Now, it's finally being addressed.

And like it or not, this is a new era. Accept it and adapt.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > > Bwaahahahaha!! It will the death of something! It will be the death of players getting carried by their oh-snap buttons and buffed damage and healing output! **Bring on this new era.**

> > >

> > > Do you realize that the majority of players simply jump from one class to another?...The average player who only play one class and spec will simply leave the game, the class design is simply trash and the more you dig...the more it becomes apparent, blanket nerf to dmg and sustain without consideration for the inherent base design of each class....will simply pushes the average FOTM player towards one direction or another..

> > >

> > > What new era are you even on about? It will be a new meta with new OP threads few weeks after its creation......**what new era are you on about**? Some people will have simply less choices when it comes to gameplay options...others will leave the game...what there is to celebrate about that?.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Like there are actually people already? lmao. Look, people will come and go and go on with their cute little meta threads...it's all just chatter to me. The main point is,_ the dynamic of the game changes the less damage and sustainability that goes around_. We can argue about the proportions of damage to sustain nerfs across professions all we want until the cows come home, but for once, there are actual substantial changes that will bring life to pvp. There are a lot of people, especially in wvw, that left the game due to the absurd powercreep. As far as class design goes, well....THAT should've been thought about when gw2 got released. I'm sorry, but classes are NOT going to get redesigned after 7 years, we have to be realistic here.

> >

> > You know, to me, this is kitten funny...the general pvp community _begged_, (myself included) for developers to reduce powercreep and now that it's actually here on the horizon being addressed it's like: "Oh my god! Don't nerf it like that!"......"ugh! They're not doing it right!"......"Be careful what you wish for!" ....."Wahh! Bunker meta".... It's like people on these forums are on perma-cynic mode.

>

> Reduce powercreep?....your celebrations will be short lived..as will be your "return"...you'll see

Hah! Whatever bud...even if it is, it won't be because of your words of wisdom! I'll take a chance!

Yes! However, they should be restricted to instances only: (eg. story/dungeons/fractals/raids). If everybody ran around with henchies, the game would collapse lmao!

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

>

> The whole point of the patch was to establish a new baseline for the Competitive balance team to then work off of. Under the new dynamic the patch will likely establish they will then be able to change, either increase or decrease or do reworks, within **that** environment rather than do a bunch of bandaid changes that result in having no effect in the environment we have now.

>

> Thats how much of an absolute power crept **mess** the game has been. They **needed** to break things down and make a mess of things so they can then build from a different foundation to a hopefully better outcome in the long term.

>

> In regards to the 5 minute ICD passives, myself and at least a few others, as far as I know, are of the belief that they did that so that these passives would fall out of use for a long enough period of time so that they can rework the traits to new ones that might actually fit better in the new environment they are trying to foster and grow.

>

> People need to **stop** only looking at this as if these are only meant to affect thee short term. They are meant to affect a longer term endeavor to change balance in the game. The devs have even said that the changes and the work would **not** stop with just this patch releasing and that incremental changes over time will be important. They needed this as a foundation to work from.

Hah! I'll say. People are such short-term thinkers. Nobody said this update was going to be a panacea, but just a good, solid base to start from.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > Bwaahahahaha!! It will the death of something! It will be the death of players getting carried by their oh-snap buttons and buffed damage and healing output! **Bring on this new era.**

>

> Do you realize that the majority of players simply jump from one class to another?...The average player who only play one class and spec will simply leave the game, the class design is simply trash and the more you dig...the more it becomes apparent, blanket nerf to dmg and sustain without consideration for the inherent base design of each class....will simply pushes the average FOTM player towards one direction or another..

>

> What new era are you even on about? It will be a new meta with new OP threads few weeks after its creation......**what new era are you on about**? Some people will have simply less choices when it comes to gameplay options...others will leave the game...what there is to celebrate about that?.

>

>

Like there are actually people already? lmao. Look, people will come and go and go on with their cute little meta threads...it's all just chatter to me. The main point is,_ the dynamic of the game changes the less damage and sustainability that goes around_. We can argue about the proportions of damage to sustain nerfs across professions all we want until the cows come home, but for once, there are actual substantial changes that will bring life to pvp. There are a lot of people, especially in wvw, that left the game due to the absurd powercreep. As far as class design goes, well....THAT should've been thought about when gw2 got released. I'm sorry, but classes are NOT going to get redesigned after 7 years, we have to be realistic here.

You know, to me, this is damn funny...the general pvp community _begged_, (myself included) for developers to reduce powercreep and now that it's actually here on the horizon being addressed it's like: "Oh my god! Don't nerf it like that!"......"ugh! They're not doing it right!"......"Be careful what you wish for!" ....."Wahh! Bunker meta".... It's like people on these forums are on perma-cynic mode.

As far as I know, condi "meta" has never been a thing. The closest thing I've seen is pre-HoT burn guardian and post-HoT berserker, burn dh, mirage, core condi revenant. Nothing else. In this powercreeped era, it's either a power game or both a power/condi game. I don't think condi alone has ever been dominant.

Bring on this new era, I say!

For once, I'm going to against the grain here and _look forward_ to what's coming instead of being jaded like a good number of people are here. Powercreep is directly being addressed both in terms of damage and defensive output right before our eyes and people are still not satisfied. I and many others have asked for this to be addressed for YEARS.