JTGuevara.9018

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> I just don't really understand why they're directly modifying all the power coefficients instead of reworking things like boon stacking and how base damage algorithms work. That would be a lot more sensible, and it could help them improve the balance between PvE and PvP without relying so much on skill forking.

>

> That said, in terms of breadth and scope of change - this is what's been needed for years. I hope it helps breathe new life into the game.

From an aspiring programmer's view, it's a lot easier to simply change the numbers that the instructions put out instead of changing the instructions. I look at the situation like this, we have a working base damage algorithm. Is there a need to change it, is it required? It served us well over the years. There's a saying: "It if ain't broke, don't fix it!"

I get what you're saying though, it's just that changing the damage modifiers isn't so clear cut like changing the numbers.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> So now that they are lowering everything, hopefully overnerfed/underused/plain bad stuff will get buffed/reworked and overpowered stuff will get nerfed/reworked.

I'm sure that will be the case. I can't wait until the day of reckoning!

The hell it is! If anything, it will resurrect it.

I type these words clearly and with no ambiguity whatsoever. I'm for this new direction. After many months and years, powercreep has finally been begun to be addressed. pvp support in this game has gone down such a dark path, that I've switched to playing raids, being they're one of the only types of challenging content that's left to play, something I'm not that big of a fan of, by the way.

However, I'm glad to see that there people still out there who care enough to put out an update as big as this, who still care to support pvp. Consider this great feedback!

It is true what you say but...so what...? The way I look at this situation is, this game isn't going to be redesigned from scratch. (It's over 7 years old!) I and many others will live with somewhat homogenous classes. Even then, remember this: We didn't have Tempest, Druid or support Firebrand during the pre-powercreep days. Who's to say what type of builds will pop up?

As far as the forum "firestorm"....ppffffff...whatever....People will cry that their baby has been nerfed, big deal. The point is that is a necessary change to bring life into this game, to bring back the idea of pvp and competition and not hand out damage/boons to classes just to cynically attract players.

Although, we are in common agreement: I support this new path.

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > Honestly, this is what I and many others wanted: a overall decrease in damage and healing output, especially to elite specializations. People who are accustomed to the current status quo are in for a BIG awakening. Bring it on, I say.

>

> I agree. Bring it. I wanted this chaos from the patch from the beginning and thats what they gave us. It needed to happen, regardless of people's distinct **emotional** reactions to it, it needed to happen.

Right you are! It does need to happen. I just _pray_ that developers don't cave in to those that want to keep this powercreeped, stale gameplay. That's what I fear: that people take it personally when their class and build gets shaved for the better interest of the game.

I can't believe this...I am legitimately impressed..._Finally_ the powercreep is being addressed after such a long time, the high damage and boon/sustainability output. I fully support this paradigm change! **Bring. It. On!**

Honestly, this is what I and many others wanted: a overall decrease in damage and healing output, especially to elite specializations. People who are accustomed to the current status quo are in for a BIG awakening. Bring it on, I say.

Bwaahahahaha!! It will the death of something! It will be the death of players getting carried by their oh-snap buttons and buffed damage and healing output! **Bring on this new era.**

Somebody pinch me...am I seeing this? Elite specs and overall powercreep being addressed right before my eyes after such a long time?

All I can say is....yes! I am on board! I support it. Loving the general nerf of damage and sustainability, especially of elite specializations. Consider this great feedback!

"ty for the 8g sir!"

"most welcome"

I'm just shaking my head at how BLATANT it is. They don't even care enough to whisper.

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> Gw2 is not know to be a good pvp game, it’s a pure pve gameplay with poor rotation base game, easy dodge aoe from bosses, but game it’s pretty to look at.

>

> People test laught and leave.

>

> The way classes are played and the lamer popish combat gameplay helped pvp being in this state.

>

> If they made gw2 skill designs based on gw1 system game could flourish once again.

>

>

> When classes do a lot to easy gameplay, due Anet believes they should help players, game looses its value and teams loose their team gameplay structure cause all u see is gimmicks back n forth cap and decal with poor communication, when classes conflict with each other roles while some keep overperformance due damage output and sustain, players over time loose interest cause it’s a redundancy spam and damage to win moments while players keep thinking its their personal skill, when something appears that is even effortless to play and kills even faster they QQ while not looking at the mirror...

>

> This gw2 pvp... 2012-2014, even back in time game never had much team work even half compared with gw1.

>

> It is obvious the many reasons why gw2 pvp failed from start.

This right here.

gw2 2012-2014 was a golden age to the burnt-out husk we have now! Even _then_....gw2 was never that good compared to gw1. gw1 had a much better pvp combat dynamic and teamwork involved.

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> I'm just looking forward to all the posts about being nerfed/changed/toned down. "My class needs that to do this", "Why did you nerf ? Without it I can't do that", "What about this other class?!", "You changed the wrong thing" aka didn't do what I personally thought was best, "My muscle memory!!!!!", "You ruined my class/build", etc.

>

> People have gotten way to used to the elevated level of power over the past few years and the patch should be and hopefully is a massive system shock.

Bring it on! I'm ready! This community has gotten WAAAAYYY too spoiled with the current powercreep. It's ridiculous.

(Votes yes multiple times) YES, GIVE ME THE FIRST ONE! THE CORE ONE!

> @"Alin.2468" said:

> There is a saying: **Don't hate the player hate the game**. Remember that in late 2016 players, in huge majority, [voted](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/player-vs-player-poll-soloduo-queue/) for SoloQ only, therefore teams (with team-play) got completely removed from ranked. We need to accept our own vote and embrace the current _status quo_.

>

> Botting is nothing but a side effect of enforced SoloQ. If teams were to be allowed, all bots would be demolished, just like in the old days of PvP. However, we voted to play alone and farm PvP alone, because we wanted this current easy farm with rewards for loosing, uninterrupted by teams with real-time voice coordination.

>

> Please stop blaming other players for trying to farm in the best way they see fit; it's their game too, and they paid for this product and voted for it, just like you did. Because of that SoloQ vote, all players (bots included) actually have a common ground; and the fact that it lasted so far, means it's a huge success. I know this may be hard to believe, but it's also the truth.

I have a saying too: **Hate them both.** See, ya can't have it both ways. You say don't blame the players even though you specifically make the case why. I am not letting the players off the hook that easily for farming, since they are likely the ones that voted for no team queue in the first place. Don't forget, there are those of us who voted no.

Now, if you're there specifically to farm and AFK during matches at your team's expense, you _should_ be blamed. Sorry, but I take a _firm_ stand against this. It's a matter of principle as well as courtesy to others. Of course, all of this applies only if you keep playing this spvp thing, which I'm not! I play other games and I'm cautiously waiting until this major update to see what happens.

(Disclaimer: I don't 'hate' players, it's too strong of a word for people in the Internet I don't know personally, I just hold them accountable for ruining spvp)

I'm just shaking my head....

This spvp community has become even _more_ of a cesspool since I've quit. I'm confident without a shadow of a doubt, this attitude is primarily driven by two things: no 5v5 queues and the reward tracks! With 5v5 queues, people can prevent this attitude from taking place. Reward tracks are just there to entice and shuffle primary pve players to get them to play pvp. Solo queuers who AFK and troll simply do...not...care. There's just...no accountability involved lmao!

Then again, I'm not surprised at this mess. This has been going on since the removal of 5v5 ranked queues. See, this is why stopped playing ranked. This BS is not competitive in the slightest.

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"Ysmir.4986" said:

> > The more I read the forums, the more I think about how much it's a nightmare for a PvP developer to decide how to balance the game mode. And it's not only due to the intricacies of balance and the different interactions you have in the game build wise, but also because the playerbase seems to be split down the middle in terms of the experiences they have in ranked q's.

> >

> > Let me preface by saying that I don't consider myself a good player, average on a regular day and average + on a good one. I have some 8000 games in PvP and I get put consistently at plat2 season after season. I play thief mostly, but I also play warrior and engi - mesmer when I forget how bad I am on that class. And even though I consider myself average, reading these forums feels like that I'm playing a completely different game mode from other players. You hear things like, "nerf this nerf that" and I go "really? who even plays that?" and general propositions such as "THIS is why the game mode is broken" and I go "what? when was that a problem?".

> >

> > Now of course, this might be due to a split between NA and EU, but I think it's especially because of the difference between plat1 (and upper) and lower tiers like g3 (and lower). And even though it's sometimes tempting to just commit to a "L2P" narrative, the latter group represents, without doubt, the vast majority of the playerbase. So even if their gripes seem to me ill-informed, should't the developer focus on their demands rather than those of a minority? After all, if the main problem with the game mode is the low population, isn't catering to the minority a sure way to put the nail in the coffin?

> >

> > **TL:DR**

> >

> > Should the developers listen to the minority (p1 and upper) or the majority (g3 and lower) in terms what the game mode needs as balance / content / changes?

>

> Majority. I've talked about this a few times in a few different threads. The upper echelon of players don't want their profession's "ruined" so of course they will defend it to the death saying you should balance to the higher tier of play. This might be a good argument if GW2 was an e-sport with lots of high level play and competitions going on. It's not though, it's a casual game and should be geared towards the casual average player.

>

> So why is it okay to balance an e-sport centric game like say, Overwatch, towards high tier play but not GW2? When you have a game that is **focused** on competitive play almost solely it's reasonable to expect most the players are looking to improve or get somewhat better. With the competitive e-sport scene this gives them an easy to access resource to find out what is currently "best" and what to strive for. GW2 isn't a primarily competitive game though and is geared towards casual so it only makes sense to balance towards that group. It's much harder to access and understand how higher tier play works. Instead of there being a sanctioned "best teams and tournaments" you have to sift through the streams and deduce who is good, who is bad, who is talking bs for yourself.

>

> A lot of players I play with and talk to are just in PvP to have fun and they are not worried about being the best. As you said, if you don't balance to these people then they all leave and all you're left with is the handful of "best" players and the people who try pvp and leave 2 days later. Even if something isn't "the strongest", if most people can't figure out how to beat it, it might as well be.

Even if this game was e-sports ready, balancing according to the high-end players is still a bad idea. The high-end merely just want balance to go their way and benefit them so they can keep their spots and not rock the boat too much, despite their insistence to the contrary. Balancing for low-end isn't good either since they're newer players, but it brings people in. It's bad either way. I say all this because balancing according to the players, who are generally biased, leads to disaster. People need to understand that developers are the ones in charge of this game, they set the tone and the agenda of how they want the game to function. I also find that a lot of players generally don't look at the game as whole, but merely look only at their class of choice. An example of looking at this game as whole is powercreep. Damage and boons have crept higher and higher in the game since 2015, really ballooning with the release of HoT. As a result, pvp in this game has become a glorified faceroll, one-shot affair driving people away.

En todos los anos que yo juge, vos sos el primer puesto que yo lei en el idioma espanol!

En punto, siiii...hay bastante pavadas en wvw, que consiste de demasiado poder de no solo las profesiones, pero en general. La nueva alianza ya va casi dos anos, hasta que yo me olvide de lo que consiste! El sistema de servidores es bien facil de explotar, jugadores se acumulan en un servidor y dejan a otro vacio! Y sigue y sigue! Yo tambien tengo un pie afuera, yo juego de vez en cuando dos veces por semana.

First off, I'm extremely disappointed in this poll in its limited in choice. I don't feel any of the above, what I do feel is intrigued and skeptical. News of this pvp patch actually piqued my interest enough to post on these forums again, at the very least. However, I quit spvp back in Aug 2019 and I'm not looking back until I see that you all are serious about this.

Those FREAKIN' sand lions!

Warrior(blinded): _-swoosh-_ miss _-swoosh- -swoosh-_ miss....

/accidental double post/

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> A lot of this stuff is actually in progress right now. Hopefully we'll be able to give more details soon. I'll give a somewhat vague status update on each one:

>

> Big Balance Patch: First pass is basically done. Cmc is running through some last minute changes and it should start internal testing soon.

>

> Swiss: Almost done (finally!). We ran an internal test on it right before the break and we're hoping to run some public tests in the nearish future. The last I saw of it, there were still some bugs that needed to be resolved. The extra gold for tournament wins not being distributed and some UI problems on the order of columns not lining up properly and tooltips and such. Tournaments themselves have some new bugs that we're looking into (rewards problems).

>

> Mini-Seasons: This is giving us the ability to run alternate game mode short seasons. Code is being added to track additional rating types now! Basically, before we can do these, we need to make it so that your 2v2/3v3 skill rating is different from your conquest skill rating. In addition to that, we still need to set up rewards for them.

>

> PvP/WvW new armorset: There are some art bugs that need fixed, but the the art is done for the most part. We're also adjusting the acquisition method. These probably won't just be tossed on the vendors like previous armors.

>

> Large PvP map (15 on 15). The map itself has been done for a while. But we've decided to hold off on releasing it until we're able to get someone to make UI changes. Currently, the UI can't handle more than 10v10. Additionally, 10v10 UI is bad. It's just one large group rather than using the squad UI. Unfortunately, when the programmers looked into how difficult it would be to add squad functionality, it turned out the current way groups are handled in PvP makes it a difficult change. Basically, it might be easier for us to build a new solution that mimics squad functionality than to try to shoe-horn the current squad functionality into PvP.

>

> Other stuff: There are some other things also being looked into, but since they haven't been previously talked about, I don't want to go into more detail at this time!

>

> Well, this turned out to be a little more detailed than I planned, but that's where we stand right now. Hope this helps!

>

> P.S. Yes, everything takes longer than we'd like to finish. We know.

As a returning veteran after quitting spvp along with these forums since july 2019, you all have piqued my interest with these proposed changes. However, I'm still skeptical. Is this a sustained focus at developing and improving spvp or is this just to placate us? Considering this game, I have a foot in the grave with general pvp content. I only limit myself to the occasional wvw. Otherwise, it's FPS and RTS games for me.

Powercreep at its finest, ladies and gentlemen!

Seriously though, wvw players seem to be more in tune with the state of pvp than the spvp forums.

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > The old trait system from release to 2014 was much better, I think. Here's why.

> >

> > The old system allowed you to put up points into any line you wanted. It was reminiscent of the old WoW system and gw1. The new system, however, you have to take a full spec line and ditch the rest. It took away build diversity, in a way. On top of that, that's where the powercreep _really_ started. The old trait system allowed for only _two_ full lines plus the leftover points which you can spec wherever you wanted. The current system, however, gives you three full trait lines. That's giving away 10 more points.

>

> I was happy when they changed the traitlines to what we have now because they drastically improved the traits. But you're right, it was improved. each trait was made more impactful and more powerful. And that was the beginning of power creep. I wouldn't want to see a return to the old traits. I like that stats are not built into the traits, but it's not a good idea to have so many damage multipliers accessible in a single build with the current set up. It works well for pve, but not so much for pvp. I have no ideas on what good balance would be.

Aahh, but here's the thing: stats built into traits are _tradeoffs_. Any game benefits when there tradeoffs, they keep that same powercreep in check as well as encourage players to adapt. Of course, I don't think people noticed this back then as the game was new and they took the system for granted. Now? Heh...!

Also, people need to understand: **You can either have power or balance, you can't have both!**

Lack of self healing? Seriously? Warrior has plenty of self healing, as well as damage mitigation:

Strength Line: Restorative Strength, Might Makes Right

Defense Line: Dogged March, Adrenal Health

Tactics Line: Vigorous Shouts (shout heals and buff to healing power)

Then there are utilities:

Healing Signet

Shouts,

Dolyak Signet

Defiant Stance (active heal through damage absorption)

Mending(can be traited to heal every _12_ seconds)

Then there is warhorn, which gives barrier!