JTGuevara.9018

Too little, too late.

I am hanging on this game by a THREAD thanks to the good will of my guild and my friends, otherwise I would've been long gone. Still, I think it's telling that this post happened merely hours after the "big" announcement. gw2 has lost its way.

To all the people praising this....stop it.

There is really no reason to praise this "big" announcement, even if you're into living world yourself. The problem isn't with people expecting too much, the problem is that ANet OVER-hyped and UNDER-delivered. The overhype being this colossal live event, with lights and music and then....nothing. I'm sorry, but this whole living world thing along with the other stuff(strikes, templates) could've easily been done in a blog post like countless other times over the years instead of screwing people who paid and flew to that event, only to announce that nothing truly substantial was in the works. From an outsider's point of view, this is a marketing DISASTER. That people to this moment still attempt to defend this obvious company disaster by turning it around and blaming us for having too high expectations is just downright sad.

The only thing keeping me in this game is my guild and the good will of many of my friends. Otherwise, I would've ditched gw2 long ago. ANet and gw has lost their way, constantly pushing single-player content in MMOs, namely living world/gem store while leaving other parts of gw2- wvw/spvp neglected and abandoned. It's a blatant cash grab at this point.

> @"Strages.2950" said:

> Some people somehow think WvW players don't use the gem store at all and point this as a reason WvW doesn't get updates. The source of revenue comes from all players in all sectors of the game. I don't see how PVE as a game mode directs players to spend more money on Gems. If anything PVE has more skins and trinkets that could keep a player satisfied without paying for gems when compared to WvW.

>

> Do more players play PVE than WvW? Of course, because you need to PVE to level up and grind your first gear sets for literally every character.

>

> Is retention lower in the average WvW player? Probably, but not because they're cheap but because their game mode is bleeding players due to neglect. Maybe if more efforts were spent to satisfy the community's needs; IF Anet would market this unique aspect in the MMO genre properly, we would have a healthy population (hence more gem purchases) and it wouldn't seem like a waste of development time.

>

> On the other hand if they ignore a game mode, how do they expect to make money from those players? They're just gonna leave at an exponential rate as their peers jump ship.

Exactly, there's also the situation of entire guilds trying to cough up funds to transfer over their players just so they can simply play with each other. Guilds are reduced to waiting for relinks every few months for a new pool of players to draw from. It's a screwed situation. And there's still no concrete word on alliances besides the same old message: "Coming soon!"

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Etterwyn.5263" said:

> > > > > > This is the way the game ends

> > > > > > This is the way the game ends

> > > > > > This is the way the game ends

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not with a bang but with a whimper.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah, like all 5 people that play WvW leave and the game ends. SHURE!!

> > > > >

> > > > > You guys need to get a reality check. WvW isn't as important to the longevity of this game as you want to think. Sure, WvW players would leave at this continued rate. That would simply mean Anet could focus on developing the parts of this game that don't drag it down.

> > > >

> > > > Wow... I don’t really think you could be more smug. And people call raiders and sPvPers elitist.

> > >

> > > Nothing smug about it. If WvW isn't generating enough revenue and it's not a loss leader, then it should go away so they can focus on what is working for them. That's how business works.

> > >

> > > Why do you think car makers are dumping sedans for SUV and crossovers? It's no different.

> >

> > Nothing smug? Ha! Says the one who thinks wvw is something from the age of the dinosaurs that needs to go away!

>

> That's not what I said ... I said if it's not making them revenue or a loss leader, THEN it should go away. if you don't understand the difference, you should probably not continue to reply to me.

Oh you most CERTAINLY did say it! lmao...It's just amazing to me how people blindly defend this company at every turn. It defies logic.

It WAS convenient, meaning to say that they must have known they messed up big time!

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Etterwyn.5263" said:

> > > > This is the way the game ends

> > > > This is the way the game ends

> > > > This is the way the game ends

> > > >

> > > > Not with a bang but with a whimper.

> > >

> > > Yeah, like all 5 people that play WvW leave and the game ends. SHURE!!

> > >

> > > You guys need to get a reality check. WvW isn't as important to the longevity of this game as you want to think. Sure, WvW players would leave at this continued rate. That would simply mean Anet could focus on developing the parts of this game that don't drag it down.

> >

> > Wow... I don’t really think you could be more smug. And people call raiders and sPvPers elitist.

>

> Nothing smug about it. If WvW isn't generating enough revenue and it's not a loss leader, then it should go away so they can focus on what is working for them. That's how business works.

>

> Why do you think car makers are dumping sedans for SUV and crossovers? It's no different.

Nothing smug? Ha! Says the one who thinks wvw is something from the age of the dinosaurs that needs to go away!

Edit: Nah, I actually don't. During the layoffs....fine, empathize with them. It sucks to lose your livelihood after so many years, but this fiasco....they did this to themselves. They need to understand, if you want business from players....be honest...deliver what you can. Don't overhype unless you can deliver. Of course, they did not. MMOs can't be sustained by single-player oriented content like living world/gem store forever. Age of Empires 2, a game from freakin 1999, STILL has content being made for it. That's from the RTS genre, which is basically on life-support.

It's humorous to see people on these forums damage control for ANet. It's like facts don't even matter in this world anymore. People expected something more coming out of this event and ANet simply did not deliver. Now people are doing damage control and trying to turn it back on us. "Your expectations were too high!"

This was a disappointment, no ifs ands or buts. Now coming into this, I was prepared for the worst...and it happened. gw2 did not announce anything substantial, anything that justifies a live event such as this. So, the usual LW/gem store content....what else? WHERE is the wvw/pvp? WHERE is the guild content(missions, etc)? WHERE is the update on the alliance system and swiss tournaments? What is even the wvw/spvp community in this game? Chopped liver? Well, this announcement definitely clinched that for us.

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"SLOTH.5231" said:

> > One shot at full HP 17kHP no time to react over 40k dmg in less than a second and don't kitten tell me it's a L2P issue. I don't mind dying but this is complete kitten.

> >

> > https://ibb.co/0rnxT47

> >

>

> The one shot was backstab. There were 6 hits for your 40k. Likely not in 1 second but ok.

>

> You are running a Mesmer with greatsword. A power weapon. So likely you are running fairly glassy.

>

> So, a boosted up hit from stealth to a glassy class? Yes. It’s working as intended.

Are you seriously defending this? None of what you said even MATTERS. It's freakin 40k lmao! I hate how players have accepted this as NORMAL.

> @"Infusion.7149" said:

> The whole ascended food concept is flawed and full of busywork. It's mostly a reason to sell the garden plot in the gem store and to drain the low end foods below level 80 via food salvage (composter).

> They could have also made raid DPS easier with them by having the third food bonus active in PvE only (similar to mob slaying food) but instead they decided to add a WvW bonus. WvW is by far the least profitable game mode basically. There's food with life steal + power and ferocity as well as options containing outgoing healing / damage reduction so I don't understand the need to tack on more stats.

>

> It would have been far better to have exotic to ascended trinket upgrading or non-cosmetic legendary trinket crafting with jeweler 500.

Yeah, this is not content in the slightest. This is just to placate players until, I guess the 30th, when the announcement regarding the future of this game is about. And yeah, ascended food is just another cost to wvw players, not to mention more powercreep. The only saving grace is that they're feasts.

Out of all the problems wvw has, I don't think rewards is one of them. As I recall, it was much worse back then when reward tracks didn't exist. People were also charged for armor repairs, which pretty much just gobbled their coffers. PPT, of course, is time-gated by the RI on the champs and the chests are still...eh...This is why reward tracks were added, because you literally played wvw at a loss. As others have said, you basically had to farm pve just to break even.

Also, rewards can at times mask deeper problems. spvp has a plethora of rewards but it's STILL a shitfest.

OP, I actually agree...the thing is...spvp is complete caca and guilds have nowhere else to go to test themselves in a pvp setting. It's a messy situation, really. spvp was supposed to be that place but the esport push, lack of support/balance and removal of team queues ruined it.

Exactly what I'm saying, OP. This is a friggin BOON. Now I can tag up for just the guild without worry.

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > For those claiming the new changes are good and makes thing challenging, it doesn't...it makes it DUMBER. See, there's a difference between challenge and...whatever _this_ is. Challenge is when you're pushed to adapt and get better. This....this is just tedious...this doesn't challenge people, it just annoys them. There's just not much you can do underwater: movement is really slow and static and classes don't even have access to some of their skills! Without any sort of fix to underwater, you're pretty much just kneecapping players for no reason!

> >

> > _Gigantic_ thumbs down on this change. Aquatic Ruins will now be cemented as the _ **WORST**_ fractal in the game.

>

> Actually, this is challenging by your own definition. As people are now required to adapt and get better. You can no longer just spam #1 while watching netflix on the side.

> Now, fractal actually requires your attention, group coordination, proper gear and potential build modification (depending on profession)

>

> Also, movement isn't slow underwater. As far as I know, almost all professions have some sort of gap closer on their weapon or utility. And you are not even required to move that much for this particular fractal. This fractal is first underwater content that actually will force people to learn their underwater skills instead of just going "12345" while yawning.

>

> Also, the change to "struggle" while you are consumed by Jellyfish is extra dicey. Now your skill number changes, so this can actually kill you if you are not paying attention. More fractals should have this mechanic, not less

>

> I give this fractal 22/22 water-skis and a bag of mandarins

On the contrary, once again, it is NOT challenging, it is tedious and annoying. Adapt all you want, you will still be limited by underwater combat mechanics. That is an unavoidable truth.

Movement isn't slow underwater? Seriously? It _ is_ in relation to LAND. And you _are_ required to move as quickly as you can because of the smaller quicker jellyfish will outpace you if you don't. Now, this situation could be possibly mitigated by luring the boss into the electric sections, but this was changed that now the big fish doesn't even move from center and the jellyfish aren't killed instantly. You can have all the gap closers you want, but you will constantly be outpaced by the fish. The bubble is And oh yeah...the "struggle", that is the _dumbest_ implementation ever. It's just a pointless guessing game to how to break free, not to mention, an insult to injury on top of all the nonsense you deal with. They took a simple intuitive 'break free' mechanic and made it unnecessarily convoluted.

To those supporting this, I'm sorry. I will take a _dump_ on this fractal change.

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> ^^ pointing at lots of things and saying they are anti social does nothing and is often simply a manifestation of the players personal disfaction.

>

> Objectively what group content does gw2 have (all of which can be played with pugs or guildies)

>

>

> - Open world events - way way more than any other mmorpg

> - Wvw - best in mmorpg land.

> - Spvp

> - spvp custom.

> - regular new maps - more than any other mmorpg

> Festivals - good as any other mmorpg

> Dungeons/fractals - kept relevant due to power cap, but do need more.

> Raids - bit of an issue, it's targeting a dying style of gameplay (meter/rotation min maxing). Needs casual friendly.

>

> more active content than any other mmorpg with no power curve gating new players, so the issue is not the game.

>

> The real issue is the players, more especially player in last decade that think games are about new content, when that is only a small part of the picture, the real issue is the self entitlement thing and the lost ability to drive your own goals and objectives (the true core of a great mmorpg)

>

>

Ehm...games are always about new content, for the simple reason will eventually complete them and all that they have to offer. This goes for online and single-player games. What you don't mention is:

1-Open world events take little coordination minus coordinating lanes and zerging.

2- spvp does not allow teams in ranked, only solo-duo players. Unranked does. It should be the other way around! This situation caters specifically for soloers.

3-spvp custom is a joke where you can switch teams during the match! If you're losing 150-400....don't worry....just switch to the winning team!

4-Maps have quantity but not so much quality-- they're not much different from each other, not much variation in metas, same dull heart quests and map currency grind

5-Dungeons are and have been dead for years, fracs and raids do get occasional support, but...fractals are messed up due to some of the thoughtlessly made instabilities which kneecap certain groups and builds for basically no reason, raids are only for specific types of players(min/maxers, those who favor rotation-heavy encounters)

Yeah, the self-entitlement is a problem in players, but you are wrong about the core of a great mmorpg. The core is and always will be the _community_. If the game doesn't give enough community support and activity and merely caters to the solo and single-players, it will die. It's that simple. Individual players, who are not committed to any group, who log in and out for dailies, simply cannot sustain it. It's just a fact, simply because of in-game presence. Group activity drives mmos, not merely individual goals and interests, especially those that completed the base game and personal story. Guilds are not even mentioned in this, the _core_ of any mmo. Guild functions are severely lacking in this game.

For those claiming the new changes are good and makes thing challenging, it doesn't...it makes it DUMBER. See, there's a difference between challenge and...whatever _this_ is. Challenge is when you're pushed to adapt and get better. This....this is just tedious...this doesn't challenge people, it just annoys them. There's just not much you can do underwater: movement is really slow and static and classes don't even have access to some of their skills! Without any sort of fix to underwater, you're pretty much just kneecapping players for no reason!

_Gigantic_ thumbs down on this change. Aquatic Ruins will now be cemented as the _ **WORST**_ fractal in the game.

Simply put, it's an MMO. MMOs generally can't accumulate enough interest on Twitch. They're of a slower pace than other fast paced genres. Those that somehow do, still can't put numbers or buzz like MOBAs, RTS or FPS games. Those are fast-paced genres, which reflects what Twitch, and social media in general, is about...fast, buzz and clicks. But honestly...is that gw2 needs?....I'm sorry, but Twitch, like all social media, is merely a hype machine for advertising brands and products as well as a cesspool of cyber courage, as well as the internet itself. Social media is pretty much sold to us as a 'cool kids club', so to speak. Like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, if you're not getting views....you ain't jack, you ain't good enough!

I don't see Twitch as something this game needs, I see it as a blessing.

> @"otto.5684" said:

>

> GW2 has tons of things to do for a new player and tons of group content. If you have been playing the game for years.. well, you will run out of stuff.

>

> I do think PoF and LWS4 was definitely a down cycle, and content as of late has been lower in quality and quantity. I personally have taken a semi break (still play like 1-2 hours per week and check the forums) and waiting to see what is coming with LWS5.

>

> sPvP and WvW abandoned? Do not get me wrong, I think Anet performance when it comes to class balance has been very poor for like a year now. But most of the class balance changes are directed towards PvP. And there have been multiple changes to sPvP and WvW with the last few month alone. If you are expecting changes every 3-4 weeks, no game devs can do that.

>

> Also, catering for single players, that is what the majority of players do.. So it makes sense to cater to them, among other things.

>

Um...I think we can do better than balance updates every 3-4 MONTHS. I'm sorry if I may seem that I'm asking for the moon and stars here, but that's just unacceptable! Might as well kill off spvp/wvw then. THAT is gross negligence. I don't consider that multiple changes at all. I don't consider a couple of pvp maps, the removal of team queue and the warclaw sufficient support. The warclaw wasn't even fully accepted by the wvw community!

And yeah, it makes sense to cater to single-players, at least financially, but...at what cost? Is it worth it? Look at all the group content in this game.

1. Dungeons? Dead.

2. spvp/wvw? Life support.

3. Fractals/Raids? Occasional support.

4. Guild content? NOTHING after guild halls.

5. Open world? Mostly dumbed-down for single players(farms)

THIS. This is the stuff that's just...there. It's just...made to languish. There's just a lack of engaging content for the community in this game. The only aspects of this game that are consistently supported are the living world & gem store, which are made for the individual.

Honestly, the way I see things is...gw2 becoming maintenance mode at this rate like gw1. Eventually, so much stuff will be released and in need of fixes that it won't even be worth it to fix...because it will cost too much...so it will just be ABANDONED. That is what I fear most.

I'm with you, OP, for the most part. There is a lack of community interaction and content in gw2 being that it caters to a more single-player minded audience. Still. some does exist, it's just not in the open world but in the cities. Go to Divinity's Reach or Lion's Arch, you'll see chats popping. You'll see people playing music, you'll see people showing off and commenting on skins. Honestly, being a gw1 player myself, I prefer DR to Spamadan, it's just more organic compared to hawking minis by being more outlandish than the person next to you! I don't know what people ever saw in that!

That being said, yeah, the open world is lacking. Questing? Yup, braindead. Meta events are pretty much farms that require little coordination. Hearts are just a chore to do by yourself, you don't even need a group. On crafting? Yup, it's boring. One gigantic list to sort through to get what I'm looking for. So gigantic, the crafting station even has a search box! lmao. That's a problem!

Now on open world pvp in pve, _that_ I do not support. It's not because pve players are "carebears", but it's simply because not everybody likes pvp. Also, by bringing it to pve, you bring the poison with it. Yup, going there...gankers, trolls....farming new people at the starting areas. Honestly MMOs, at the very least, learned that lesson long ago that mixing pve with pvp is bad for business. Keep them separate. The thing with open world pve is that it mostly doesn't encourage any type of group play, minus dungeons, fractals or raids, it's mostly tailored for the individual. Really, the answer is not to import pvp to pve and competition, but to make pve more cooperative.

Are people seriously defending these meme builds? "An experienced player knows how to deal with it..." Yeah, but so what?

> @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > I can't say that I'm surprised by some of the responses here.

> >

> > When I emphasize group content, I mean content that actually _requires_ people to group up to complete; content that motivates people to cooperate. I thought that's what MMOs were about, cooperation. If there's no cooperation, then what's the point of an MMO? Just play a single-player games. Yes, there are open world meta events, but they require little cooperation except for something along the lines of 2 or more players on the same map agreeing to *keep pressing 1* on a boss because you can't obviously do it by yourself due to the high HP pools. Only the HoT metas require cooperation... but people tend not to like those.... Still, that's hardly enough to sustain people playing over the long-term, metas get stale after a while. People really just play them for the loot, not because the meta has unique mechanics! If you don't believe me, the upcoming boss rush confirms this notion. Fractals and raids are group content, but they are locked for new or beginner players. Also, where is the guild content? You would think for a game called Guild Wars, there would be more stuff for guilds. Apparently not. Where are the guild missions? Where are the guild functions?

> >

> > spvp has been decimated with the focus on the single-player as well as almost completely neglected. spvp removed the team queues, the ability to play as a **GROUP**, making conquest spvp completely pointless as a game mode. Why even bother playing when you or a friend can just troll the matches for the rest of your allies? Why even try? And people have the _nerve_ to protect this? So-called "competitive" pvp is nothing but a cash grab farm for gold and gear. Tournaments are just a consolation prize being that they're every two hours, it's not enough.

> >

> > wvw has been completely silent on alliances for over a year and a half.

> >

> > You know, when I see that gw2 has laid off about 1/3 of its workforce, releases content and updates at a snail's pace, gw2 not communicating its direction.... maybe...just MAYBE there's room for questions about the state of the game....but no.... "Don't worry about it! Enjoy the gemstore!" "gw2 is steady chugging along as usual!!"….But no....I'm just a veteran, what do I know? Players just come and go right? Yeah...until they don't....

>

> This is poorly stated, particular the noise about pressing one. Its not your style of mmo is all, how many years does it take to figure that out?

It's not poorly stated, you just don't like it. I challenge you or any opposing opinion to find any falsehood in what I've said. As I said about metas, they require little cooperation besides people being in the same place and pressing 1 and coordinating lanes. Not much more than that. People are self-sufficient in combat and boss encounters and mechanics revolve mainly around dodging AoE attacks.

I can't say that I'm surprised by some of the responses here.

When I emphasize group content, I mean content that actually _requires_ people to group up to complete; content that motivates people to cooperate. I thought that's what MMOs were about, cooperation. If there's no cooperation, then what's the point of an MMO? Just play a single-player games. Yes, there are open world meta events, but they require little cooperation except for something along the lines of 2 or more players on the same map agreeing to *keep pressing 1* on a boss because you can't obviously do it by yourself due to the high HP pools. Only the HoT metas require cooperation... but people tend not to like those.... Still, that's hardly enough to sustain people playing over the long-term, metas get stale after a while. People really just play them for the loot, not because the meta has unique mechanics! If you don't believe me, the upcoming boss rush confirms this notion. Fractals and raids are group content, but they are locked for new or beginner players. Also, where is the guild content? You would think for a game called Guild Wars, there would be more stuff for guilds. Apparently not. Where are the guild missions? Where are the guild functions?

spvp has been decimated with the focus on the single-player as well as almost completely neglected. spvp removed the team queues, the ability to play as a **GROUP**, making conquest spvp completely pointless as a game mode. Why even bother playing when you or a friend can just troll the matches for the rest of your allies? Why even try? And people have the _nerve_ to protect this? So-called "competitive" pvp is nothing but a cash grab farm for gold and gear. Tournaments are just a consolation prize being that they're every two hours, it's not enough.

wvw has been completely silent on alliances for over a year and a half.

You know, when I see that gw2 has laid off about 1/3 of its workforce, releases content and updates at a snail's pace, gw2 not communicating its direction.... maybe...just MAYBE there's room for questions about the state of the game....but no.... "Don't worry about it! Enjoy the gemstore!" "gw2 is steady chugging along as usual!!"….But no....I'm just a veteran, what do I know? Players just come and go right? Yeah...until they don't....

I ask this question because although obviously gw2 is not dead, it is in trouble. The more I play this game, the more it becomes a single-player, cash grab, WoW "killer", like every other typical MMO. Where's the plan concerning gw2 _as it stands_? Sure there is living world- s5, but....then what? How long can this game survive with just living world and gem store? I actually don't even CARE about expansions or gw3. Honestly, those will solve nothing, not the core issues regarding this series. If the expansions or gw3 are merely single-player, gem store oriented, cash grabs then what is even the point of playing them?

What I notice about gw2 is the disturbing **lack of group content**. I'm not even talking about hard content like fractals or raids, just general group content: something that is so basic regarding MMOs. Where are the guild functions? Why have dungeons, spvp & wvw been abandoned? Why is there no group content that people can get into to encourage socialization--example: player housing, bounty systems, job systems, etc? I notice that gw2, like other MMOs, generally caters to the single-player, instant loot gratification crowd.

Honestly, I'd rather scrap the expansions or gw3, and fix the game at this point...

OP, I'll answer your question with a question: Who even gives a you-know-what about Twitch!

Twitch is just inane nonsense and nothing but a distracting marketing hype machine for games. See, the last thing I want to hear when I watch a game stream is someone talking over it. It ruins immersion. I hate this entire Twitch culture that pretends it's more important for games than it actually is.

As a fellow veteran, I feel your pain. We, pvp-oriented people, have been left to rot.

I don't think it's just gw2 either, MMOs have basically _given up_ on pvp content or are simply too incompetent to make it work. Case in point, RTS games, MOBAs and FPS. _That's _ where people go for their multiplayer fix. In MMOs?....pvp is a side thing, it's not respected as pve is. The sad thing about all of this, it's the MMOs own fault. In a ham-fisted attempt to compete with WoW, they sacrificed pvp in favor of pve: in terms of the gem store, fractals, living world and raids. Like any other MMO, they have developed the "carrot on a stick" in order to get people hooked.

I will say this, though. This is why I appreciate the wvw community. You guys seem to live in reality a bit more, much more so than spvp players. I basically stopped posting on the spvp forum because I was tired of the apologists for the power creep, stale conquest mode. I was _tired_ of people shilling for their classes. I was _tired_ of people shilling for the company whenever they buff your class and cursing it when they nerf yours. It's like how craven can you get! Now, what do we got recently? 2v2? Pft. We've been down this road before. **If there's no queue for it, 2v2 is dead on arrival.** Mark these words. This has already happened, I think twice. People get hyped up about 2v2 only to realize it's shipped over to the custom servers and...it dies. Nobody plays hotjoin anymore!

But what the f--- do I know, I'm just some guy. I pretty much mostly wvw in gw2, I've basically already moved on games like Age of Empires: a TWENTY year old that is STILL growing! lmao! gw2 and all you goofy ass MMOs...take notes. pve is not the be-all-end-all.