Bast.7253

What? I haven’t seen any? Are they condi staff troll builds? I rarely ever see any mirages anymore. Usually core if anything

In the arena if you use the victory rock chair and take damage you're insta downed. Not sure if that's intentional or not.

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> Seems less like a L2p issue, and more basic human psychology. No one likes feeling like they're putting in a bunch of effort, only to be thwarted by little Timmy, going full unga-bunga and not getting punished for it because the easiness of their build makes up for any perceived lack of skill.

>

> You see this across all sorts of game genres.

Not to mention, if someone is playing at the level that they're in the top 25, they're going to be there regardless of what they play. I never claimed to be the best, nor I expect to be. I'm just pointing out the rather obvious issues with certain builds and the current meta. But people that are desperate to make snide comments will always find a way.

Ele, unless specifically built for it, has always been lacking in condi cleanse though for sure. It's better than it used to be, but it's still a hassle to deal with.

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> You're playing LR weaver. Condi is a natural counter to you. It's a difficult build to play despite what forum posters will have you believe. By picking ele, you resign yourself to the fact that you will have to play the piano in order to be effective. You will have to put in more effort to gain the same value as other classes that press fewer buttons.

>

> For some people, that challenge is the joy of playing ele. It gives you something to master. You'll able to relish the thrill of discovery time and time again with this class because there are so many things you can do with it. You take the good with the bad. If that isn't for you, I suggest class swapping to something more straight forward.

>

> I don't doubt that you have the skill to play weaver, but based on what you're saying, perhaps you'd enjoy yourself more on a class with a lower apm requirement.

It's less about the difficulty of weaver, which I enjoy playing, and more about the fact that it can be completely negated by far easier builds. And the fact that some builds have way too much group pressure.

Play some braindead condi build.

Like Condi herald and burn guard.

Profit.

In a dueling scenario this shit may not be a balancing issue, but when you're fighting for a point and you have a condi herald pulsing out 10 torment or a burn guard repeatedly and rapidly applying 10 stacks of burns, there is zero counterplay without a support, and before you know it, no matter how much condi cleanse you have, 2 of the 3 people you were at the point with have already been downed.

Unless you plan on creating a system to adjust matchmaking so that there is a designated condi cleanse/heal support class, or plan on doing something about these conditions, the game mode will continue to be a wasteland with little to no build diversity.

Also, aside from spirit watch or whatever it's called, Skyhammer has never had any business being in the ranked map pool. The map has always been cancer and favored certain builds over others.

Increasing resource costs, removing amulets, and reducing stacks of conditions by 1 whopping application does nothing but give the illusion of effort.

Who is my team focusing? The condi herald that's pumping out constant burning, torment, and poison? So the burn guard can lay down a fire field or pulse out 10 burns while the herald pops glint heal and resets? Are we focusing the burn guard waiting to get through multiple aegis procs and an elite that resets their virtues and makes them invulnerable. Do we focus the support tempest laying down lightning fields, healing everyone, cleansing conditions, and giving out shocking aura?

I get that you're not going to win every match, and that's fine, but to be forced to play something you DON'T WANT TO PLAY, just to be able to be semi-viable in a match against a comp of condi cheese classes that take minimal effort really makes for a poor experience.

In this particular scenario I was playing as a lr weaver, with minimal condi cleanse. So obviously I wasn't playing something optimal for that comp. It's just infuriating feeling like I'm over here playing a piano and someone else can press 3 buttons and wipe out my entire team, even if I manage to cleanse the first 3 waves of conditions.

Whether an individual is skilled or not, builds like these have entirely too much impact in team fights. Even if YOU can counter them or can anticipate them, there's a good chance you're playing with people who don't, or who are being focused and can't react fast enough to deal with it.

You can't control other people or play for them, and you can't tell them to switch builds, and you shouldn't have to.

Torment at least gives you the ability to stand still and reduce damage, but burning might as well be straight up power damage. You either cleanse it immediately, or you're dead. It's like this in pvp, in pve, in wvw. Burning in general needs to be reduced or reworked.

Please take a long hard look at these low risk high reward condition builds on more than a 1v1 or top 10% gameplay level.

And for the love of Joko, something needs to be done about burning. It's always been an issue, so I don't really expect it to change now.

I think I've seen a few suggestions of various ideas with many people wanting dual pistols, greatsword, and longbow.

Personally, I'm hoping for a starcaller themed elite spec, inspired by ancient jotun magic. Probably longbow, as our only long range weapon right now is staff. I used to want greatsword, but with the edition of weaver I'm not sure how they could create gameplay for greatsword unless they take a mesmer/rev approach in having it not behave like you would expect the weapon to.

As far as attunements, with each spec altering the way attunements perform, tempest with increased cooldowns, weaver with combo cooldowns, the Starcaller could have ONE attunement. Arcane. (If they didn't want to create multiple different weapon skills and just add a fifth arcane attunement which might be more favorable for most players and the playstyle in general.)

If they went with this one attunement, they could choose mantras as utility skills, with each mantra dedicated to existing attunements, earth/fire/air/water and arcane as more of an empowerment elite. Using the mantras would augment the existing weapon skills to reflect the mantra used. I.e. Apply burning and fire fields, chilled and healing, immobilize and bleeding with earth, daze and projectile deflection or knockbacks with air.

Longbow skills

Weapon skill 1 - auto attack:

Base skill without mantra - chance to duplicate attack.

Fire mantra augments this ability to give it burning with a chance to cause burning to nearby targets.

Water mantra - applies chill and applies a condition that allows allies to heal from attacking the marked target, but does slightly less damage. Projectile finisher.

Earth mantra - cripples with a chance to bleed, and pierces.

Air - increased projectile velocity and higher damage coefficient, and either a chance to inflict vuln or a stacking debuff that summons a lightning strike after a certain number of successful auto attacks.

Elite - Arcane - chance to duplicate attacks 100%.

Weapon skill 2 - charge-up

Base skill without mantra, channeled weapon skill similar to dragonhunter longbow 2 that behaves like rapid fire with Ranger. The longer you charge the more projectiles up to a certain threshold but coefficient decreases with each projectile.

Fire mantra - Only charges up one powerful ability with the longer charge increasing damage and burning stacks.

Water - Heals you while channeling and heals allies in the path of the projectile.

Earth - At minimal charge - immobilizes target and enemies in the projectiles path, at max charge knocks down instead of immobalizes.

Air - at minimal charge inflicts 10 stacks of vuln and deflects projectiles, max charge summons one additional lightning strike/star.

Elite - Arcane - Summons falling stars in the path of the projectiles.

Weapon skill 3 - mobility

Base skill without mantra - acts similar to blink/thief shortbow 5. You become a star and travel to the targeted area, invulnerable to power damage but susceptible to conditions.

Fire - you dash to the the targeted area leaving a blazing trail in your path, is an evade.

Water - targeted area becomes a water field with knock back targets in your path similar to tidal wave with warhorn 4, leap finisher that heals you when you successfully land in the water field.

Earth - move underground, invulnerable to power damage, crippling foes in your path, upon arrival of the target area you rise from the ground and gain a small amount of barrier.

Air - become a cloud, gain shocking aura, and gain superspeed for a brief time when you arrive at the target.

Elite - Arcane - leaves an astral projection at your departed position that mimics your next 3 abilities.

Weapon skill 4 - defensive

Base skill - shift into the astral plane for a brief time, gaining brief invulnerability and a stack of resistance.

Fire - summon a black hole around you (smoke field) and leap back 600 yards - leap finisher for small stealth duration.

Water - summon a moon that follows you and periodically pules healing waves beneath you that cleanse 1 condition with each pulse. 3 pulses with a healing coefficient similar to geyser on staff 3.

Air - daze surrounding enemies briefly and then knock them away 600 yards.

Earth - immobilize and blind surrounding foes.

Elite - Arcane - self-float - gain distortion for 2 seconds, when distortion ends your star form disperses and emits smaller star projectiles that stun for 1 second. Affects 5 targets.

Weapon skill 5 - aoe

Base skill - large area - summons rapid falling stars - similar to ranger volley but shorter duration = same damage - more bursty.

Fire - falling stars have a chance to leave a small fire field.

Water - falling stars chill and heal allies in the area.

Air - falling stars apply swiftness to allies in the area and briefly creates a tether between enemies struck pulsing lightning damage.

Earth - falling stars create a shockwave applying a debuff to enemy players similar to the slippery slope mechanic for a short duration.

Elite - Arcane - enemies in the area are pulled into the center and falling stars converge into one to combine into one damaging ability. Cc does no damage and lasts 2 seconds, falling star arrives at ground target 4 seconds after cast, allowing for reaction time.

Obviously a lot of this probably sounds broken, and a bit of a mess. I'm also not taking into account other weapon sets in terms of how the mantras would augment them. But I'm just spit-balling because I can't wait to get new elite specs and I've always liked the idea of a celestial themed spec. (Yes, I know there's druid. But druid always felt like it had a bit of a confused identity to me and the only thing that seems "celestial" about it is the naming of the ablities and the graphics, and MAYBE staff 3 being a light orb.)

> > > > > @"montecristo.1324" said:

> Give Core an Arcane Attunement perhaps? Yeah I know that would be a kitten ton of new skills to add, but that would be a trade off. An Arcane attunement might be fun to play with...

>

> Otherwise an F5 that recharges all attunements but has a 60s CD itself might work.

I've always wanted an arcane attunement but I'm not sure what role it could fill.

Air seems to be mostly power based.

Fire is power/condi hybrid.

Water is healing and sustain.

Earth is sustain/condi.

What role would Arcane fill? I feel like elementalists, weaver especially, could really use some source of quickness.

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > Im not saying that ele is dead. Fireweaver is kinda viable, LR dagger MH is good. But sword is dead, dagger OH is also kinda dead, so basically when I was playing power sw/d Weaver...each part of my build is dead.

>

> > PvP only.

> > Fire/water/arcane, power version with avatar or mender. Its not bad bunker, overall d/f Weaver is better, but d/d also has some spikes and good cleanses. Some ppl played dd even before patch, after it hit I feel like it became more viable. If you know what youre doing, how to map rotate and put combos (unfortunately compared to d/f LR Weaver, here you cant miss skills, otherwise you wont kill anything because of low pressure), stable Platinum is possible

>

> Platinum D/D core is very good and neither of those amulets nor traitlines were affected this recent patch. I'll try it out tonight. I wonder if the heals is enough to compensate the loss of projectile hate.

>

> D/F LR Weaver was fun until I realized you could have the same effectiveness with easier rotations on core. After the Feb patch, core builds are popping out of the Woodwork will into Plat. Very interesting

I haven't checked metabattle or anything but what's the build for core dagger/dagger? I love dagger/dagger playstyle but the build I was running seemed a bit glassy.

And as far as the op is concerned, I think the biggest issue weaver/ele has right now is just in wvw. If you're not running some support spec or a roaming spec, trying to play the good ole glass backliner just feels pointless to me. It's rare you can actually land the abilities you want in zerg fights without retaliation or random conditions pressuring you, or a rev coalescing you mid meteor shower. lol

In pve though weaver, mes, and firebrand are my favorites. Weaver sword playstyle is just so unique and fluid when you get used to it and really helps you understand the importance of combo fields a lot better across all classes. Probably only comparable to holo in that regard.

In pvp I think most people just run dagger/focus lr weaver right now, or go for easy mode and play cc spam tempest, which still needs a nerf imo.

I found a semi-fun condi build that puts out a ton of conditions. It has a little bit of defense but it's more of a condi burst assassin playstyle. It's just sad having so mesmer seemingly repeatedly forced into a condition oriented spec. There's still the somewhat viable sword/focus greatsword mirage build and core shatter, but they seem significantly less effective due to a lack of sustained damage in matches.

I'm feel like we'll probably get somekind of support/bard spec in the next expansion but I'm hoping for a true power-oriented spec for once. If we don't get somekind of bow or underwater weapons like tridents/spears then I feel like hammer could be interesting.

> @"Shao.7236" said:

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98220/game-update-notes-february-25-2020#latest

>

> Revenant:

> * Banish Enchantment: Increased energy cost from 20 to 30 in PvP only.

> * Pain Absorption: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.

> * Call to Anguish: Increased energy cost from 30 to 35 in PvP only.

> * Searing Fissure: Reduced initial burning duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only.

> * Echoing Eruption: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.

> * Embrace the Darkness: Reduced additional torment stacks after using an energy skill from 2 to 1 in PvP only.

I fought one the other day and I didn't notice a difference.

I mean, it might feel slightly different playing as one, but playing against it still felt the same. I haven't seen as many though, but that's been the case since a few days before the balance patch. I was running the metabattle build with sage runes and while I could apply plenty of pressure and condition damage, at times I felt rather useless. I'm not sure if I should have been running a more offensive amulet. Wait, no, I WAS running carrion. Nvm.

I still feel like power and retribution shiro are a little more beneficial to have though, given how slow mobility is with condi herald.

I do think the amount of resistance they can get via traits and runes is a bit too much though. I'm not saying negate their ability to counter condi completely, but it feels like they are significantly stronger against conditions than they used to be and for the damage, sustain, and utilities rev has in general it seems like there should be a bit more of a trade off. Then focus on actually balancing conditions in general.

Just genuinely curious how you can butcher a class in a game mode this bad?

Is its only role now just to be a condi bunker?

I've tried various power builds and they do a fraction of the damage of core mes or mirage with minimal sustain?

Shatters are practically a non-existent mechanic.

I just don't get it? It used to be so much fun and now it's just complete garbage?

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Jaunt really doesn't feel like an elite. There are numerous other mirage utility skills that rarely see the light of day, like the mirage advance? The shadowstep with a cast time? It's garbage and always has been. I'd like to see them remove that and replace it with jaunt, then create a brand new elite skill.

> >

> > As far as suggestions I'm don't really have any. And I wouldn't dare suggest any because at least 50 people on the forum would instantly complain about how broken it would be.

> >

> > There are also a lot of missing elites for varying skill categories. I.e. Elite sigils/shouts/stances. I think most of those DO have some. But there are a few I can't think of right now that have utilities themed around a skill category but no elite skill for the fifth slot. Do guardians have an elite conjured ability? I don't think they do. Things like that.

> > Is there an elite well for necro? Or is the plague skill a well? I've never read that much into the tooltip.

> >

> > There's definitely a huge advantage of some elite skills over others though, whether it be the functionality or the cooldown length. Some might be more ideal for a certain build but the cooldown is so long that you'd just rather use a different elite.

>

> Yeah Jaunts an odd case. Its got the power of an elite, but it really feels more like a normal skill. Then again I fear if made into a utility, itd need to lose some power. As for a replacement elite, maybe a perfect clone, i.e. one that copies all your actions? Other than Axe 3 because that wouldnt really work.

Hmm, might be onto something. Maybe not a perfect clone, unless it's substantially stronger. But maybe something akin to assassin's guild on Thief, since mirage is all about copying Thief. Something that summons multiple clones of varying weapon types/phantasms and they spawn with an ambush attack.

You could have an axe and sword clone that spawn on the target, a staff, scepter, and greatsword that spawn by you.

Jaunt really doesn't feel like an elite. There are numerous other mirage utility skills that rarely see the light of day, like the mirage advance? The shadowstep with a cast time? It's garbage and always has been. I'd like to see them remove that and replace it with jaunt, then create a brand new elite skill.

As far as suggestions I'm don't really have any. And I wouldn't dare suggest any because at least 50 people on the forum would instantly complain about how broken it would be.

There are also a lot of missing elites for varying skill categories. I.e. Elite sigils/shouts/stances. I think most of those DO have some. But there are a few I can't think of right now that have utilities themed around a skill category but no elite skill for the fifth slot. Do guardians have an elite conjured ability? I don't think they do. Things like that.

Is there an elite well for necro? Or is the plague skill a well? I've never read that much into the tooltip.

There's definitely a huge advantage of some elite skills over others though, whether it be the functionality or the cooldown length. Some might be more ideal for a certain build but the cooldown is so long that you'd just rather use a different elite.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > Hoping to get them back?

> >

> > Want to see if they are actually any good and not just a forum troll?

> >

> > Want to duel them?

> >

> > Wreck their day?

> >

> > Btw, where is Shadow the Jedi?

>

> Trick question.

>

> The real answer is that you can't anymore because everyone has a couple alts, or 5 or 10, or maybe like 20+ if you're a top 10 player on your main.

Right? I feel like there's at least 5 top players that have many many alt accounts. Sometimes they don't even try to hide it with their display name. lol

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> first theres:

> Proto constantly CC and push back knock down everybody and does not die

> necro face tanks everything

> rev that does all the damage a team needs and too sustainable

>

> then there's

> daredevil who just runs and never dies and decap and pick people when some one is finally low after 5 mins or people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers.

> ranger pets that does 9k damage and 2 shot everybody whos not running mobility or aoe spamming bunker.

> symbal brand/trap ranger/renegade/condi rev spams all the aoe in the world

> ele who spams tornado every fight and kill people who doesn't run mobility or aoe spamming bunkers. with perma CC.

>

> and bottom there's everybody else running the cheesiest/tankiest build,

> because high risk builds are destroyed by mostly the second lists, so nobody goes high damage and necro/proto can face tank even more thing and it's a full circle of hell all over again.

>

> and matches are decided by who has the most counters/cheese.

>

> where's the next balance info, i'm interested

>

Agreed. This meta is garbage. Seeing the same people over and over again in matches tells me that quite a large number of people have just moved on from the game mode.

I can still do good damage on my power mirage, but I'm too glassy to get heavily involved in any fights and dueling is sometimes pointless given the build the other person is running. Power rev is really the only thing that has the sustain and the damage to be useful anymore.

There are entirely too many bunker builds able to put out just as much damage as someone intentionally focusing on damage. There are also entirely too many cheesy cc spamming builds.

At mid you have a fear spam necro, a cc spamming firebrand, and a cc spam ele. Then on the side nodes you've got a some prot holo running thumper turret and a ranger with a pet knocking you down and a ranger bashing you or knocking you back with longbow.. or immobalize and knockdown/daze spamming you on a condi build.

Or, and you don't see this very often because it doesn't seem incredibly viable, you get some hammer wielding warrior that can somehow keep you knocked down/stunned for the entire duration of the fight back to back, then full-counter dazing you the second you get a moment to attack.

Idk. It's just all bad. I really don't even have suggestions at this point. I don't think the balance team has a clue either. I'm guessing that's what they were aiming for with the sweeping damage coefficient changes. But now they're probably scratching their heads wondering what to do now that they still have outliers and even if they didn't would actually have to focus on balancing class mechanics and traits. Given that, it's really a toss up as to whether or not their "fix" will actually be for the better or completely negate the relevancy of the spec. They've pretty much deleted scourge and chrono, almost deleted mirage, and I don't think I've seen a scrapper in months.

Best thing to do is just to play what you want and wait for it to cycle to the top of the list of broken specs after a few balance patches seeing as they seem to just draw weapon skills and traits out of a hat. Obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, and I'm about 90% salt at this point, but this season has definitely been the worst for me in a long time with a seemingly minuscule population.

Can we do something about the fact that ranger downstate may as well not exist?

The healing from the pet is way too high, not to mention the cc from the pet and the daze from the ranger.

Really downstate in general though, frankly. There are entirely too many quick res abilities and it seems to be an issue now because of the damage and cleave reduction. Thankfully not many necros run the res sigil, but when you have 3 people on a team running res utilities it gets a little ridiculous.

I'm now probably in gold 2 after about 10 losses tonight. At this point I really don't give a shit about rating. I'm just going to grind out whatever wins I can get for the trinket.

Of those 10 matches 6 had the same 10 people. And at least two of those matches I was up against at least one person in the top 250.

The pvp population is dead. WvW is dead. Competitive game modes are dead. Balance patches take half a year and rarely address anything that's an actual issue.

This is by far the least enjoyable meta I've experienced so far. I'm assuming they base balance changes on simulations and reading spreadsheets and not actual gameplay experience. It's the only thing that makes any sense at this point.

I don't even care about balance patches anymore, honestly. I just want new elite specs so this game mode can at least be somewhat fun again.

I don't get all the complaints about shortbow. Yes it's annoying seeing a thief constantly decapping, but that really boils down to luck in matchmaking and the other team. It doesn't matter how fast you are at decapping if your team is throwing their corpses at mid the whole match outnumbering the other team.

Sure, there are plenty of games where you can decap and rotate your way to victory, but there are just as many or more where your high mobility isn't going to matter and you're never going to be able to +1 because you teammates die before you can get to them.

Half the time I've tried coming as a decap bot on thief I've just wound up giving up and trolling mid because I was either forced to duel for a sidenode or running back and forth across the map capping a point while the enemy recapped the point I just capped. I mean, I'm not good at thief anyway, but a lot of people argue that you can carry matches by simply avoiding fights and capping points, but I've yet to see a match where that was possible. You either win by a landslide and your help is barely noticed or you're just stalling the match.

Is anything getting changed?

If we follow previous balance changes it will likely be a series of damage coefficients and condi duration reductions on weapons nobody even uses in pvp.

Renaming a tooltop here and there.

Mirage will get its last dodge taken away. Holo will get some increased healing to heat therapy.

What should change:

Ranger pet damage

Core necro sustain

Tornado damage reduced

Condi rev have some of its sustain or damage reduced.

Reduce blind spam but compensate thief so that it's still viable without it.

Firebrand damage reduced.

Burning damage reduced.

Remove some of the capture point area abusing skills or reduce their radius. Things like overloads, renegade spirits, firebrand symbols/burn fields. Of course "high level" play won't be affected by these changes so they aren't warranted being looked at. Balance patches seem to really only ever be focused on plat 2,3 legend status builds. Which seems kind of pointless because of how small that percentage is and how most of those players are going to be skilled enough to counter a build no matter how broken it is. Seems like they would want to target the larger audience and provide benefit for a larger number of people.

Why is the animation seemingly twice as long as the evade frame?

I still haven't bothered to use build templates. I don't really feel like finding a youtube video explaining them. I probably should at some point though. It's just always felt like a hot mess to me.

> @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > > > > You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Decap.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Save an escape in case they turn on you

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Move around and be pesky.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thief has no honor, so play with none.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Not so much troll as much as "try to uneven even fights", but yes, its that and decapping. If your team is constantly dying and their team can guard the points, you lose. Its as simple as that. Thief is extremely reliant on his team matching theirs. If theyre getting crushed, the enemy team is useless.

> > > >

> > > > > And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You run away. Thats the first and most important lesson any new thief has to learn, when and how to run away. Because you will be running away *a lot*. If the fight is lost, get out and see if you can find a new one.

> > > >

> > > > > lol I just don't see the point.

> > > >

> > > > The point is that you can turn even fights uneven, and upset the balance between 2 teams. Of course, if your team is worse than theirs, there isnt much you can do, but arguably there isnt much you can do on most classes. But its an unusual playstyle, and you have to like it. If you tried playing thief wanting to be an assassin or a duelist, Im afraid youre playing the wrong class.

> > >

> > > It didn't used to be that way though! And I've still seen some thieves that seemingly wreck people, including me, either dagger/pistol or sword/dagger and I have no idea how they do so much damage at once. Landing sword 3 ability after evade seems to be the best way to do damage with that build but I feel like it's next to impossible to land. Sword to immobilize seems to be kind of buggy for me. For that build it seems like it's just spamming sword 2 and avoiding as much damage as possible while occasionally landing decent damage.

> > >

> >

> > I mean, exactly like this? No. But thief had been a decap and +1 bot for a long time. A *very* long time. And if theyre "wrecking" people, its usually low-health targets theyre finishing off, or theyre playing a bad build and you just see the rare times where it works, rather than the 90% where the build sucks.

> >

> > > Dagger pistol though I've still seen some do pretty good damage and in unranked against random unrated people I seem to do fine. Even dueling seems to go reasonable, it just feels like I'm spending 5 minutes dueling someone to get them down (if I get them down).

> > >

> >

> > It does really poor damage. Backstabs usually hit for 5k or less nowadays, which is far from impressive. And honestly, no class should ever lose a duel against a D/P thief. D/P thieves damage and sustain is just outclassed by everyone.

> >

> > > I think swipe really killed the build for me and you almost have to run critical strikes/shadow arts/trickery to do decent damage but you lose so much defense.

> > >

> >

> > Swipe sucks, but thats not the biggest reason. The biggest reason is actually that Assassins Signet got a bugfix that was a major nerf, as well as the general lowering of damage but not survivability with the last patch. Still, you can +1 people sometimes.

> >

> > > I'm not saying I want to see a ton of thieves running around one shotting people with backstabs, but the last balance patch definitely made it seem like even more of a handicap for a team than nearly every other profession you could choose from. The only scenario I can think of where it might be somewhat decent is against a slow no mobility comp that's stacking necros and firebrands or bunker weavers. But then you run the risk of them just camping a node all match.

> > >

> >

> > Yeah thieves current situation is less than ideal. The assassin's signet bugfix nerf lowered damage by a lot, and tankiness went up hard, so now even +1ing is often not really all that effective.

> >

> >

>

> Assasin Signet used to give 15% damage increae + the current 560 attack power . It was a bug

>

>

> You can use these second spec linked that was tested by the creator of the thread , where you cc the enemy + burst him in 6 sec .

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/103273/how-should-i-improve-my-burst-combo-on-thief#latest

This seems like it would be highly situational and ineffective though. If they stun break you're left with practically no defenses or cooldowns. lol Might be fun to play around with in unranked or something though. Thanks!

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

> > >

> > > You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

> > >

> > > Decap.

> > >

> > > They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

> > >

> > > Save an escape in case they turn on you

> > >

> > >

> > > Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

> > >

> > > Move around and be pesky.

> > >

> > >

> > > Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

> > >

> > > Thief has no honor, so play with none.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

> >

>

> Not so much troll as much as "try to uneven even fights", but yes, its that and decapping. If your team is constantly dying and their team can guard the points, you lose. Its as simple as that. Thief is extremely reliant on his team matching theirs. If theyre getting crushed, the enemy team is useless.

>

> > And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

> >

>

> You run away. Thats the first and most important lesson any new thief has to learn, when and how to run away. Because you will be running away *a lot*. If the fight is lost, get out and see if you can find a new one.

>

> > lol I just don't see the point.

>

> The point is that you can turn even fights uneven, and upset the balance between 2 teams. Of course, if your team is worse than theirs, there isnt much you can do, but arguably there isnt much you can do on most classes. But its an unusual playstyle, and you have to like it. If you tried playing thief wanting to be an assassin or a duelist, Im afraid youre playing the wrong class.

It didn't used to be that way though! And I've still seen some thieves that seemingly wreck people, including me, either dagger/pistol or sword/dagger and I have no idea how they do so much damage at once. Landing sword 3 ability after evade seems to be the best way to do damage with that build but I feel like it's next to impossible to land. Sword to immobilize seems to be kind of buggy for me. For that build it seems like it's just spamming sword 2 and avoiding as much damage as possible while occasionally landing decent damage.

Dagger pistol though I've still seen some do pretty good damage and in unranked against random unrated people I seem to do fine. Even dueling seems to go reasonable, it just feels like I'm spending 5 minutes dueling someone to get them down (if I get them down).

I think swipe really killed the build for me and you almost have to run critical strikes/shadow arts/trickery to do decent damage but you lose so much defense.

I'm not saying I want to see a ton of thieves running around one shotting people with backstabs, but the last balance patch definitely made it seem like even more of a handicap for a team than nearly every other profession you could choose from. The only scenario I can think of where it might be somewhat decent is against a slow no mobility comp that's stacking necros and firebrands or bunker weavers. But then you run the risk of them just camping a node all match.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> You play a mobile and evasive harasser.

>

> You may do less damage but you can really kitten up someone's day by being pesky and not greedy.

>

> Decap.

>

> They want to sit on the node? Go back to being pesky, strip boons and interupt.

>

> Save an escape in case they turn on you

>

>

> Dont try ressing allies unless they have no los, no ports, and no way to hit you, or you will.be downed.

>

> Move around and be pesky.

>

>

> Dueling is a waste, be a kitten and hit them with your buddies.

>

> Thief has no honor, so play with none.

>

>

So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

lol I just don't see the point.

I've never been good at thief but I've been trying out the dagger/pistol daredevil build and it literally does like 2k at most unless you land a backstab. And landing a backstab with this next to impossible, at least in a 1v1.

On top of that, nearly everything seems to instantly cleanse blinds. I watched some video showing off the build and the seemed to imply that you just do a few autos in pistol 5, cast a heartseeker, and you're good to go. But blinds never last and my autos do like 200 damage. So I mean, what is the point of playing this when I could play on rev and have more sustain and do 5 times as much damage?

I don't understand why thief requires literally perfect play to be efficient or watching every single cast for perfect timing when nearly every other profession has a build that can perform the same role but twice as easy?

The only build I think is total bull is the sword/dagger build because thieves just use it to spam teleport. But even that does little to no damage unless you time your evades just right.

I'm always out of initiative, my abilities never land, my blind never lasts, my damage when it does land is miniscule, I'm somehow always out of range of steal, and stealth doesn't last long enough to get in position to land a backstab.

So, what is my damage at this point? Skill 3 and just shadow shot, headshot and hope that what I'm interrupting is important? Memorize the skill animations of every class and every ability so I know what to head shot? I just don't get why someone would play this for any reason other than shortbow 5, triple dodge, and swiftness.