Bast.7253

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> I'm an average player that hangs in p1 and i get matches like that most of the time. You either get carried, aka you don't learn anything to improve your skill from that match, or you lose without even have a chance of a win. I've stopped caring to improve just because of that, there's really no incentive into playing lots of games and trying to improve when you get imbalanced matches like that. Ofc sometimes you get fun matches but those numbers are so little. Recently I got matched vs sindrener and his duo q buddy, I love sind he's a good player and have nothing against him. But can someone explain me what I should learn from a match like that? It's like doing a 100mt dash beetween an average guy and Usain Bolt, wat is the point?

Agreed. It's just not much fun. Maybe if they weren't frequently duo's but they usually are. 1 you have a chance, but 2 and you're likely s.o.l.

But I've also had plenty of matches with these top 10 people where they seemingly accomplished nothing all match as if they were intentionally throwing. Last I heard there were a lot of top players that had multiple accounts and they just funneled ratings to highest bidders. Could be a baseless rumor but it wouldn't surprise me.

Why am I having multiple games facing multiple "Gods of Pvp" at barely 1500 rating?

And usually duos at that, when my team has neither a duo nor a highly rated player?

I'm assuming these high rated players are either queuing for an ego boost or selling wins and getting placed in lower brackets? It's really annoying having a game be 500-100 or less and knowing that no matter how good your rotation was you stand absolutely no chance of winning.

> @"Luthan.5236" said:

> I have seen the matchmaker trying to make teams with the same core professions on each side. (But maybe different elite specs used.) That's at least how it seemed to me in the lower tiers where there is more population of players in the queue. (Still sometimes not working perfect there.)

>

> My guess is that at the top levels it just is not possible to do so ... because of the lower population. (Queue's might take ages then and I heard they are alraedy taking longer.)

> Now if these certain builds and elite specs are considered overpowered and the top players are playing more ina professional way ... shouldn't it lead to a higher percentage of players playing them. (-> While lower pouplation at all at the top ... still a good chance to have them in the own team if more pople are playing them?)

>

> Allowing team queue would solve the problem though. People could just queue as team and make their own strong combination instead of having to rely on the matchmaker (that might match them with players playing "weak" elite specs cause they have not trained playing on the stronger ones and can't just switch to a stronger one).

>

> But then people not willing to search for a team might cry cause they alwas are in a weaker spot. (Well with duo queue you can at least make 2 of the 5 players strong if you chose a strong spec and get a partner with strong spec.) People playing also only a "weak" elite spec might not willing to learn another one (and not getting a spot in a team until they play a strong spec). It might lead to 100 percent of the playerbase at the top only playing the builds and elite specs known as strong.

>

> ---

>

> The thing Trevor mentions is true though. In the tier I play I don't even see many Firebrands. More Dragonhunters and core Guardians. Heralds are there sometimes though. (Most almost no core revenant or the other elite spec.) And I as a noob personally find the Scourge necro most annoying when he makes the whole capture note covered in AoE permanently making my health go down super fast in a few seconds. Most annoying enemy together with weaver that is commonly played here most instead of core ele or other tempest.

>

> The matchmaker can't just recognize the stuff seen as "META" by the top players. ArenaNet would have to manually feed them the data like "don't alloe Firebrand, Reaper, Rev" in one match. With class/char swapping disabled it still would need to block the whole profession to be matched together with the other ones in a team. (If it only looked at the elite then players might just switch build to a different elite since build switching is not locked before the match.)

>

> And then ... we'd have in other (lower) tiers players complaining about other builds.

>

> Just make team queue. So anyone can queue up into a full team at any tier they play going for team combination they'd like to play. Might encourage more team playing and maybe open up the tournaments for lower tiered players if they can team up with other lower tiered players and try 5 vs. 5 as team in ranked games already for training and maybe finding nice team members.

I don't think scourge runs the large shades anymore though? Tempest though for sure will take up a whole point with lightning overload, and firebrands/guards with burn fields. I can't say I've been too bothered by scourge but nobody really plays it anymore. I've maybe seen one in a game outside of cheesy minion builds that seemed to be really threatening and have good sustain.

I mean, I'm not sure how high of a level we're talking, but I'm just barely above plat. Last I looked Trevor was slightly higher than me. But I'm still seeing four necros in nearly every match between both sides. Firebrand not as much, but there are still necros everywhere, and somehow I seem to always get the ones that get insta-downed at mid each match.

It just makes for pretty bleak gameplay seeing the same things over and over again with little hope at a balance patch making other things more viable. I'm guessing most of the really high rated players are revs, at least from what I can tell in the free for all in the lobby where everyone gathers.

But without condi damage the evade spammers and bunkers wouldn't get free wins.

We can't have that.

Against a core necro, a reaper, a firebrand, a condi rev, and a deadeye.

It would be nice if even the slightest effort was put into fixing this meta.

But I guess that's too much to ask.

And obviously, I'm referring to the necro, rev, and guard stacking in every match.

How long have we been dealing with this? Almost two seasons now?

> @"Dustfinger.9510" said:

> To add to Jimbru's point about completely sealing a border, the lore says Cantha banished all non human races. It doesn't say that Cantha had the ability to cover every inch of their terrain. And seeing the playable races national ability to police their own terrain, it is highly unlikely that Cantha could actually make sure that there were no non humans hidden in their lands.

>

Idk. Humans are a pretty invasive species. And who knows how much their population has grown since then. Kaening could have expanded significantly during that time. With the land potentially returning back to pre-shiro, there could be a possibility of population growth from humans. I suspect we'll see a few Largos in the area, and wouldn't be surprised to see plenty of Quaggan. Of course those are mostly underwater species that wouldn't fight for land, but still!

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > I mean it seems that a good core ranger can erase a necro, maybe that's just my perspective.

>

> Between you and @"cptaylor.2670" ...who does create more nerf threads and attempts to stir drama?....half the nerf/drama threads on this forum are from you....there are people who I see more on the forum than actually in game

>

> But to answer your question......**thief mains are the ones asking the more nerfs in general : @"Vallun.2071" - @"bluri.2653" and other "pro" streamers**

lol I'm not a necro main. I'm terrible at necro. Not as bad as thief, but pretty terrible. Core ranger is pretty widely known as busted.

This meta is complete garbage and likely will be for the rest of the year unless they decide to actually make some meaningful balance changes for once. But I doubt it.

> @"Altaiz.3570" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > Except it isn't necro mains asking for ranger to be addressed, well known top players in EU say it's broken, you can see them saying it in Sindrener's and Boyce's stream. You can also see these 2 players saying that they don't want ANet to hammer it down to useless but that it needs a lot of adjustments, small in size but a lot of them.

> > >

> > > Also not seeing them in WvW? Are you blind or do you just choo choo with a tag all the time? There's loads of rangers dotted around adding into small fights or worse still adding into fights at duel spots.

> >

> > What top players? Outside the far node 1vs1, the class has zero presence : offers close to zero supports and can't really handle more than 2 badly played classes at the same time, the class has been nerfed to the ground because it doesn't really offer anything outside their 1v1 niche , despite their claims....**they don't use rangers in their top teams**...let's ask @"bluri.2653" why there is no ranger in his team if it's so powerful.

> >

> > But enough of this pointless talk , take your bird pets whatever and let's increase the teamplay viability of rangers, so that at least the class is usable in wvw outside the even more pointless roaming as you lot like to call it, as it brings in no loot, badges..or fun.

> >

>

> What amazes me is that how much effective thief is in any comp and yet thief mains still complain about everything and ask for buffs on their class and nerfs on others, so much so theif was becoming a 1v1 class last patch and they would go on to beat high level warriors when it’s isn’t even their class role.

>

> Rn leaderboard has so many thieves in top 50 and every other thief build is viable.

>

> People complain about ranger given their broken revenant, unkillable renegade, core necro, LR ele, prot holo out there terrorising people.

>

People complain about thief because you have to play it perfectly to even be effective. When the rest of the meta is mostly just build carry and profit.

If you don't understand the thief complaints you should try playing it. It's really hard to do anything in a normal season, much less this trash meta.

Lol I just fought a core ele that had me locked down the whole fight. So much damage! Then tornado with a seemingly 20 second cooldown. I didn’t realize core could do that much damage and have that much sustain. Dagger/dagger I think? Idk. I always heard celestial dagger was fun back in the day. Is it still a thing?

If they’re not giving back the dodge it would be nice if they would bake in some extra condi cleanse.

> @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > Okay, to clarify:

> >

> > There is core bunker necro, which basically just survives. I believe it uses paladin amulet. It doesn't do any noteworthy damage outside of Lich form, and that can be relatively easily avoided with LoS and projectile hate. You can usually identify it by the stacking carapace buff.

> >

> > There is core condi necro, which uses carrion amulet. It's squishier, but has decent power and condition damage. It usually has increased fear duration and will try to keep an opponent CC locked with a llike of conditions.

> >

> > At top skill levels, bunker necro doesn't fare well because payers know to rotate around it or focus it hard. However, you see a lot more condi necro because of the pressure it provides and top players know how to use positioning to stay alive. But bunker necro below top skill is reminiscent of turret engi from core in that it's low effort compared to the returns.

>

> What I'm seeing even in silver is that players with a fair level of skill can cc core necro bunkers to death pretty quick. 2v1 means popping everything, hopping into shroud, and hoping they're both melee and kinda glassy. At my admittedly low skill level, a better player on almost any class can 1v1 me and avoid death unless I pop lich where they can't LOS. Otherwise, KITE ME HARDER, DADDY! My role as a bunker is to hold down a small area for a brief time under pressure until help arrives, then mainly to support. Correct? I shouldn't be getting a bunch of kills outside of group fights unless they try to just facetank me 1v1 like an idiot.

Maybe an ele could. Or a warrior. I’m not sure what else would have enough cc to do that. Ranger maybe? Else can do it from a distance to some degree. Warriors can pop resistance. Maybe some gimmicky engi build?

Meanest generally struggle because they have to sacrifice a lot for condi cleanse, and power mes is kind of useless on shroud unless you time it in between shrouds and they aren’t running the shroud on low health trait. But fear and reveal also kind of screw that up.

I feel like the biggest threat to Necros right now is just other Necros and occasionally eles. Lol

I found toughness to give me way more sustain than vitality. I tried a 34k vitality build and it felt like I had a huge life force pool but it was just burning through at the same rate. If you reduce the damage you take with toughness your life force will drain slower and you can survive longer out of it.

For all others I think vitality is pretty good. Except maybe warrior and holo.

But if you’re a necro you don’t really have to worry as much about conditions if shroud is absorbing them or you’re transferring them so the only source of damage you have to be worried about is power, which is reduced by toughness.

The problem is the cc and the fact that it takes up a whole point. But it’s not just lightning rod weaver, it’s tempest in general and the massive overload combined with constant cripple, immobilize, shocking aura, focus skills, chilled. If you have those plus something naturally tanky to begin with like a core necro, along with the annoying symbol brand, you’re pretty much going to have to just avoid them. Or try to split them, but even that is difficult to do.

> @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > @"Arcaniaxs.4519" said:

> > > Isnt it just infusing light and the sustain of necro that are the problems?

> > > Its just cuz of their broken sustain imo

> >

> > It's not even power shiro that's the problem. It's core rev and the 800 life steal traits mixed with heals on stun beak, heals on upkeep, all while pumping out condition damage and using weapon skills to survive. Amidst constant cc.

> >

>

> Not a single condi rev takes devastation, so not a single condi rev can take the battle scars traits that are a shadow of what they used to be. I've run into one core rev (Shao) in 202 games between the ratings of 1580 and 1680 on NA, and he wasn't condi. No clue where you're getting these ideas from.

A broken core condo rev build I saw the other day. Was running mallyx and Jalis. Had people beating on him and he just regenned health with vengeful hammers that never seemed to run out. I’m not going to say he wasn’t good, but he did genuinely just stand there taking no damage and gaining health from auto attacking and hammers faster than damage could be put out.

> @"Arcaniaxs.4519" said:

> Isnt it just infusing light and the sustain of necro that are the problems?

> Its just cuz of their broken sustain imo

It's not even power shiro that's the problem. It's core rev and the 800 life steal traits mixed with heals on stun beak, heals on upkeep, all while pumping out condition damage and using weapon skills to survive. Amidst constant cc.

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> BUT THE BIRD HITS WITH 4K ;__;

Yeah, but to a core necro that's like, 10th of 5 health bars.

And to a rev, they'll just cc spam and heal to full.

About how broken necro and rev are.

Not that anyone gives a shit.

Wasn't it speculated that it had something to do with the deep sea dragon and that's why it rejected Zhaitain's corruption?

I'm more interested in finding out what the floating golden orb in Malchor's leap is all about that's turning everything into metal/gold. Especially as it had special interaction with some sand junk item a long time ago and never seemed to get expanded upon. But then again neither did the Shadowstone or loads of other things.

Always found it interesting though that the golden orb looked like Mordremoth's "heart" after we killed him. And was this orb there pre-cataclysm or did it show up after?

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Can't kill them with condis because they cleanse

> Tempest cant kill you either^^

> >they're just incredibly too annoying to make enjoyable gameplay in a match

> So in your understanding gameplay is just enjoyable when you can kill all and everyone? We all would like that =)

> But imagine you could be killed by every class, how about that?

> >and still got stunned from shocking aura

> It does 1 sec daze and has a CD of 20 sec, come on dude, is this that serious?

> >but as far as team fights go they're just incredibly

> Thats the one and only strong role of tempest, and if its team doesnt do enough damage, tempest is lost.

> Its supporters destiny to be hostage of its team.

> Tempest is good when played well, but in my opinion its far away from overperforming.

Weaver is far more fun to fight against and I can't kill the majority of them unless I have perfect timing or am running something that hard counters. It has little to do with whether I can kill them. It's just that make fights extremely unfun. Getting dazed every other second, knocked down, immob's, or stunned when you're trying to focus something that's ACTUALLY doing damage and watching your team get trampled because they can't get any abilities off either makes it pretty crappy.

I just think it's unhealthy for the gamemode. The same way core necro having infinite life force and fear spam is. Do you remember when holographic shockwave took up like half a point or more pre-nerf? Well now we have tempest doing the exact same thing and on a much larger and more frequent scale. Sure, they may not be running a damage build, but they don't need to when they've locked everyone down repeatedly.

Couple that with the constant condition cleanse and healing and it's pretty cancer.

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> You gotta fight fire with fire. Tempests don't survive well against CC's. Once they use mist form and armor of earth (only 9 sec max), they're pretty much done.

>

> They'll try to throw out aoe storms to deter you but it's only a distraction. If they use lightning storm, use range pressure and you won't get cc'd. Lightning aura only stuns if you're in melee range.

>

> If they use earth overload, just dodge out of it after 3 sec to avoid immob. Otherwise, it's practically harmless.

There's also the immob shout though. And I've hit from range and still got stunned from shocking aura before? Well, mid-range anyway as you can't cripple them.

The other problem is that they're usually not alone. So you can do your best to counter the ele but there's going to be a necro or something else pressuring you. I've found the best plan is just to give up and ignore the point all together. I wouldn't say they're the best bunker, but as far as team fights go they're just incredibly too annoying to make enjoyable gameplay in a match.

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > Yeah, the pets need a damage nerf, this completly slipped trough.

> >

> > Also please, for the love of god, remove the random CC / knockdowns some pets have. Its totally fine if its a comanded skill that does CC, but random CC on an AI Pet is just so unfun and wrong on many levels. There is a good reason we dont have % chance evade or miss in this game. Its like playing the lottery.

>

> There is no random CC. The pets use it as the first or second attack after switching and on cooldown afterwards. Most of them have also an obvious animation that is easy to dodge. And pets miss around 80% of their attacks anyway if you keep moving...

> If you get constantly CCed by passive pet skills it's a player problem, not the game.

“An obvious animation” Who has time to look at pet animations when you’re busy watching the ranger and trying to dodge a knock back, maul, stun, or interrupt their heals?

I guess that works if you’re playing something that can just absorb constant damage and save dodges. But it isn’t realistic. To me all the tiger animations look the same. I think one has a charge up but it’s near impossible to keep track of the animations if you’re on something that isn’t bunker or that doesn’t have excess dodges.

Just another needlessly annoying build that needs to be removed.

Thanks.

> @"scarydogie.3024" said:

> This thread should be...

> It would be nice to hop into unranked to play new builds but...

> Every single unranked match is just dumpster tier bronze players vs dumpster tier bronze players so it's impossible to actually practice anything.

Except a good number of matches are plat duos looking for ego boosts and I happen to be on the enemy side.

This is usually later at night though. I guess maybe they had a shitty night in ranked and decided to come and blow off some steam?

You must not play unranked very often if you think it's only bronze.

Yet another thing that needs to be obliterated from this game mode.

Can't kill them with condis because they cleanse, constant immob and chill, reflects, shocking aura, lightning combo field, multiple dazes and stuns with focus.

So many builds in the current state of this game that make matches entirely miserable to play against and offer very little counterplay.