Bast.7253

On a sidenote the latest teaser of the map in the next episode has me pretty excited. Saw a bit more variation and it looks like it will be a nice place to explore or lounge around in! Also makes me want another guild hall option even more. :(

As far as new maps go, I'd personally love to see somekind of aerial high fantasy cloud city or something at some point. Something kind of like the heart of the mists with floating islands and such. If they redid the Wizard's Tower into its own zone that could be pretty neat looking. It would probably be pretty niche with not everyone having griffins and skyscales and such. But a portal setup could work. Maybe even integrated into the story so that you unlock portals to the upper levels (if you don't have a mount) account wide. Like completing a heart on one island unlocks the next.

I'd also really love to see some maps with more realistic lighting. I.e. pitch black like the snowblind fractal at night. With them going with more of a horror theme this saga I feel like it would be a nice touch. Surprised they didn't try it with the woods area in Bjora and the boneskinner. Just imagine being in pitch black woods and having some bright red glowing eyes from the boneskinner in a tree top somewhere! I'm not sure if they don't do it because they're afraid to alienate/annoy a large playerbase or if it's somekind of technical limitation with the overall zone lighting.

Revisiting some older maps could be neat too if they found a way to implement an optional phasing system and integrated them into the story somehow. I.e. An npc in Orr that lets you visit a newer, cleansed version. But I think I'd just prefer to see the personal story/dungeon versions and the unexplored areas released as one giant cleansed open world map.

Other than that the only things really left are underground and underwater. Underground was handled pretty well with Tangled Depths, but I feel like it would all start to look pretty similar unless they took a Journey to the Center of the Earth Draconis Mons approach and gave it unexpected varying aesthetics.

I think underwater could be cool if they found a way to make the normal above ground physics work. I.e. making you walk on sea level and ground targeted abilities. Or just have the zones be set in some sprawling infested Largos city that's encapsulated by somekind of forcefield that keeps the water out. That could be cool too, and then you could have the surrounding area covered by swimming fish or pitch black with the deep sea dragon's eyes peering at you.

I don't know, just throwing things out there. The map artists in this game are pretty exceptional and show and put an amazing amount of detail into their work. I do truly think exploring the whole realistic darker lighting thing could be really fun though.

But then I'm also still sad we didn't get the spider mount and probably in a minority that looks creepy things.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Caine.8543" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > what other builds are easier to play then necro? all you have to do to be effective is spam abilities off cooldown nonstop, and dont run in 1vX. No combos required, and one of the biggest "skillfull" things on necro is corrupting the right boons from 1 corrupt that you have, the rest is mindless spam and kiting.

> >

> > :/ a lot of the time i'm attempting to pull the 1v2 or more... i push far immediately. i think a lot of people that play necro have no idea how to actually play it. they just smash buttons and hope they reach plat. but there's right and wrong ways to play it, there are nuances to it that raise the skill cap. things like positioning and when to teleport and which order to use your staff skills in, depending on who you are fighting... you cant just mash otherwise you'll miss half of your slow kitten skills. you have to wait for a dodge, and then fear for example...

> >

> >

>

> you misunderstand what NECRO skill is with general skill.

> Every class needs to understand when to go in or not, how to kite or not and who to focus or not. Necro lacks mechanics that are needed to show skill with the class.

> The closest thing to necro skill ( and not general game skill ) necro has is

> 1 fitting the build to the enemy

> 2 finding ways to land skills with no way for enemy to fight back ( this is propably the biggest one ) -> like landing marks from out of range, cripple aoe while kiting around the pillars, or shroud draining through the walls.

And I mean, it’s not like the build requires a whole lot of mastery to be successful against the vast majority. It’s better now than it was, but even a bad core necro can still live long enough to waste peoples time, make a point uninhabitable, or throw out enough fear that their team gains the upper hand. The latter is really just the problem with the current meta in general. It’s all about the low risk cc spam.

> @"Caine.8543" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Every match, even in unranked, has 3-4+ necros.

>

> I play necro because I have 4k necro games and I've been waiting for the day when I could play it again. I love myself some necromancer. Played core terrormancer back in the day. But hey buddy, do me a favor and stop getting salty and cussing me out just because I'm a necromancer. kthx. oh, and trash talking me while you have me blocked, and changing your characters 8 times only to realize you cant kill me yourself, so then u just wait outside the FFA arena until i'm fighting and you will gank me for hours.... and still often lose anyway x.x

>

> it's like a daily thing with u dude. pls stop

I mean, I did kill you on my thief and core mes completely fair and square. And you whispered me first a long time ago because I ganked you in a free for all arena. ? But you keep believing whatever you need to, buddy.

I’m not the one trying to start off topic arguments in an online forum.

There’s definitely some salt, but it ain’t here!

And you’re right about necro being more than spam, but unfortunately in unranked and low tier matches with everyone playing it, it’s a coin toss as to whether or not you get the ones that do. Either way, even if they themselves aren’t good they still have chain fear, aoe conditions, reveal, and multiple health pools that can outbalance a team fight with minimal effort.

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Every match, even in unranked, has 3-4+ necros.

> this is great and you happy and pound ? or what?

> people play and choose that class that thay want. this is ok, that some classes is stronger at beginner skill level. So to win whit non meta you need play 5x better. And this is great and nice challenge.

>

I guess that's the real question though. Do they REALLY enjoy playing it? Or are they just playing it because of the state that it's in. I'd wager most are just playing it because they see it as an easy win.

I don't know how the mini-season will look, but last season it was pretty much just necros every match.

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> Hasn't really been my experience for most of this season.

>

> I saw a lot of Necros when I tanked myself all the way down to plat 1 early in the season. But for most of it it has been mostly Revs that I've seen doubles of on both teams, Rangers and Holos pre-nerf were common doubles too.

I'm not talking about specific tiers. The vast majority won't make it to plat, and if they do they won't make it high. I'm talking about ranked and lower game modes.

I mean, of course it seems they only care about balancing for the elite, but that alienates the larger portion of the player base.

Every match, even in unranked, has 3-4+ necros.

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Tempest is my biggest complaint on this. But I don't really see firebrands that often anymore. Tempest, at least lightning overload, is far too punishing and covers too large of an area. If you're running support, the damage from it might not be as deadly, but the interrupt spam in a team fight and inability to stand on the node can be quite annoying.

> >

> > The other issue is Mallyx.

> >

> > I can't really think of any other aoe right now. Holo is annoying, but they're not as threatening with the radius reduction on shockwave, at least in team fights.

> >

> > I'm sure there are a number of other builds that could be quite annoying, but in terms of the current meta I'd say these are the biggest offenders.

>

> i agree, tempest skill aoe coverage is too great and unhealthy at the same time, condition herald, ofc symbol guardian ( yes that's common)

> holo might be less annoying now, but mortar field spam still there and ofc necro

I forgot about mortars. It does feel like they do a bit too much damage. I know they're an "elite" skill, but I feel like it should be more about the utility than having spammable hard-hitting aoe from a long range.

I honestly preferred the old meta. But I think that's because you wind up with too much class stacking right now of things that abuse crowd control chains/conditions. You either run something with high sustain that pumps out constant cc, or you run something that has high sustain and pumps out condis. There isn't really much room for power builds outside of avoiding fights and side noding. Before, you could play a power build and carry a team. It's a lot more difficult to do now though.

And people complained about the old meta and power builds. They insisted that one shot burst builds lessened the gameplay. But is that really any different than going to a point and being knocked down, knocked back, dazed, stunned, feared, and pulled 8 times in a row?

I think I'd rather get one shot, die, and quickly return to the match than be cc locked for 3 minutes. Given the heavy decline in population I'm thinking there are quite a number of people who aren't really interested in this gameplay.

I also just think it's unhealthy for pvp in general. We're thinking from people that are used to the game and have seen multiple metas. A new player coming in, joins a match for the first time, and goes up against veteran players, playing any number of the cc spamming fotm builds, and spends the entire match not even being able to counter play or learn their class because they're getting chain cc'd every fight.

At least in the previous meta they could dodge or cleanse a bit and attempt to recover. Now the only option is just to avoid fighting completely and focus on rotating. Some people may enjoy that, but many people assume a player versus player gamemode is going to be about fighting, not map-watching and capture point strategy.

People talk about this meta allowing room for more build diversity, but all I ever see is necros, condi revs, and guards. Unfortunately, most necros I've been teamed up with seem to just get farmed at mid all match or play bunker builds that serve little add little value to a team fight because they're not build to pressure the enemy. Then they blame everyone else assuming that they're better because they were the last to die.

Tempest is my biggest complaint on this. But I don't really see firebrands that often anymore. Tempest, at least lightning overload, is far too punishing and covers too large of an area. If you're running support, the damage from it might not be as deadly, but the interrupt spam in a team fight and inability to stand on the node can be quite annoying.

The other issue is Mallyx.

I can't really think of any other aoe right now. Holo is annoying, but they're not as threatening with the radius reduction on shockwave, at least in team fights.

I'm sure there are a number of other builds that could be quite annoying, but in terms of the current meta I'd say these are the biggest offenders.

I tried this setup instead of the one I have but I think I like the burstier glassier one a bit better. I think this build is probably better in higher ranks where people know how to counter it, but that's the recurring issue with any of these types of builds. It seems broken now, but once it gets nerfed something will come along after that will seem way worse. It always does.

I found a somewhat viable chrono build that puts out more conditions than this and mirage ever did, reliably. I'm sure if a lot of people were using it people would be shouting to nerf chrono now too, despite it being gutted already.

But it's the same as it is with thief, once people learn how to counter it you're left with a glassy condi burst build. There are other builds, like condi rev, that can put out just as much condition pressure but have seemingly infinite reset buttons and defensives. Or rangers that can block, evade, and disengage for days while their pet cc spams you or crits you for half your health and troll half the team on a cap for a whole match.

Honestly, I've seen some core condi mesmers with much more sustain and constant condition pressure than condi thief.

I think all we've known of them is what we've seen. With Zhaitan we just saw this Conquerer of Death. We didn't really know what motives he had, if any. With Mordremoth, he seemed like a villain, but he even foreshadows during his speech of the meta fight about what we're doing. We didn't really learn about our impact until the next living season, and then with Kralk we started to learn more about the elder dragons. That they have other motives or forces, like Kralk did with the torment that drove him to behave the way he did.

While most of the time it seems like it's kind of made up on the fly, there could have been a long-term plan in regards to the elder dragons that they're still building up. We're learning more about them, and I think as we move further with Jormag we'll learn that they're not just "villains" for the sake of being villains. The story is still evolving.

As far as why they chose them to spotlight in the franchise, it's because they're monstrous powerful beings capable of building an entire franchise around. They're unknown, exciting, hard to understand. If you had to write a story and build a game around something, would you rather try to rewrite a story over and over again about the same politically motivated villain-type, or would you rather evolve a story around something completely unknown that gives you a broader scope? Sure, they could have made an entire expansion around, Joko, and in the end went with Balthazar, but between an undead lich and one of the six deities that sparked the rise of human civilization and a sideplot of an elder dragon, which do you think gives them more breathing room? They could have wrote a story about a leader of the Nightmare Court corrupting the dream instead of an elder dragon, but would that be as interesting?

While I do think the plot is a bit rushed or hamfisted at times, or drawn out meaninglessly in others, you need a strong almost ethereal villain to make for a compelling story line in a story delivery like this. In nightfall, you had Abaddon, one of the six gods. In Factions, you had shiro who was empowered by another one of the six gods. In Eye of the North you had the destroyers.

I mean, what would we have in their place at this point? Civil wars between humans? Civil wars between Charr or races warring against each other? Tyrannical rulers as the primary villains? It feels like they would just have to keep rewriting the same story over and over again? And yes, people will complain that the same thing is happening with the elder dragons because we keep killing them but in the grand scheme of things:

We have Zhaitan, who we kill because we know little about the elder dragons and they just seem straight up evil. We continue on to Mordremoth, because we don't know any better. We then have a human god, and wind up having to save an elder dragon from said god, but then have to kill the elder dragon because it's consuming reality. Not because it's straight up evil and bent on conquering, but it seems like this natural force. We learn they're interwoven to the planet's balance. Now, we have one friendly elder dragon, and are still trying to discover the motives of another.

It's a cumulative progressive plot that feels similar when examined individually, but collectively show a larger picture and tell a different story, one that's still progressing. Sure, you could supplement those elder dragons with something more familiar, like an evil leader or a war, but would it be as compelling or would you just find yourself asking the same question? If World of Warcraft hadn't introduced villains like the Lich King, Illidan, Deathwing, Sargeras, would they have been able to build an entire franchise around Orcs and Humans and had it become what it is today?

It gives them a fresh take and something unique to this franchise, otherwise how is it any different from dungeons and dragons or any of the other cornucopia of other fantasy genre games.

And to reiterate what someone else said previously, dragons have always been represented to be a varying in different stories. Good, evil, neutral. They're a mystical creature that can be molded into whatever they need it to be with ease. You can make a "god," sure, but how many times can you do that and make the plot feel different? An evil unicorn is pretty laughable. I suppose there are always Djinn and random elemental beings, but then you have to factor in and build on already existing lore. So there wasn't really a whole lot of places they could have taken the franchise outside of war between the races. Perhaps they could have invented something else, like more Mursaat, some evil Jotun faction, some larger baddie that to add that touch of mysticism and given a sense of unknown. I think it was just an opportunity for them to portray dragons in a different way. They're not gold-hoarding and greedy, or benevolent, they're forces of nature that are directly tied to the balance of the planet.

On a sidenote, I believe some of the founders actually came over from Blizzard didn't they? I remember looking at a wow cosmology chart and thinking about how similar it felt to the eternal alchemy. Wow has their dragon aspects, which are each empowered by the titans and hold domain over certain aspects of magic. It feels like this is kind of a spin on a similar story, and while at times many may feel that the payoff is lame, but if you've followed World of Warcraft story development I feel like Arenanet has handled things a little bit better.

Sure, we have Zhaitan getting blown to bits by an airship, and it was pretty unsatisfying, but we starved him and blinded him first.

We had to find specific weaknesses for them that made sense for what they were.

In World of Warcraft we had the dragon soul, a beam of light shot out of a golden disk that killed Deathwing.

Then, we have a beam of light shot by the pantheon to imprison Sargeras.

Then, we have a beam of light to kill N'zoth, one of the old gods.

It's like all they know how to do to conclude a major villain is to just shoot a beam of light at it.

In this game we have mystical beings with unique weaknesses and underlying plots. Even Balthazar we needed the help of Aurene and his own weapon to defeat him.

This has gotten way off track, but the point is that I don't think the franchise would have made it this far without them, because it would have just felt like the same plot over and over again. A lot of you may already feel that way with the Elder Dragons, but I think you're looking at the larger picture with a magnifying glass instead of thinking about the progression and considering the possibilities with an open mind.

I also whole heartedly believe that the current plot will be as simple as us killing Jormag and Aurene becoming more powerful. I'm not even convinced we'll kill Jormag, nor that we will befriend Jormag.

The story isn't finished yet, and it's not just black and white/good vs evil. It's not conquerors or tyrants, it's an ecosystem. It's not just revenge or lust for power and domination, it's chaos and unknown.

Only ones I've seen have been playing somekind of glass one-shotting aoe build. So, I guess if you don't really care about dueling and just want to play a suicide bomber there's always that playstyle.

I just don't want it to get buffed to the point that it does crazy one shots/cleave AND can run a tanky amulet. There's too much of that already.

I really didn't play it that much when it came out but it seemed liked it was oriented towards condi. I feel like that's something warrior is really missing aside from the random tanky longbow build. I know at launch people were running mace/torch condi builds but I didn't play it enough to know why it died out.

Phoenix longbow that shoots mini phoenixs! Would settle for salt spray dragons

Because it's still an easy brain dead build that wipes teams and involves minimal risk. It needs to be gutted.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> Legacy of the Foefire. Its not the worst map by itself, but for some inexplicable reason *everyone* picks it. Its the map I was forced to play the most on, and I simply dont like it.

I like it because it’s nice and open. There isn’t a ton of crap for people to jump onto or hide behind. I mean there is, but it’s not as noticeable as something like nifelhel

Spirit watch and sky hammer. If you get sky hammer there’s about a 90% chance there’s a holo in the map. It’s not as bad now but it used to be terrible with the larger knockdown radius and knock backs and disengage.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > > @"Poledra Val.1490" said:

> > > > Some intresting reading in this thread, bottom line is its still one if not the most broken build in pvp at the moment.

> > >

> > > It's hella boring and monotone to play with and against. I don't understand how anyone is defending this build.

> >

> > people that got hardcarried by it, its hard to find a build that 1shots people with 2 abilities from stealth, it nullifies many build from playability just by existing

>

> ^ This is the main problem with the P/D Condi Thief.

>

> Some builds can counter it. But other builds get countered so hard by it, that their class doesn't possess the mechanics required to feasibly deal with the build at all.

>

> The problem occurs when the Thief is smart enough to avoid anything that may threaten him and only go at things that very seriously have 0% chance of dealing with his build. When that happens, it starts breaking the game.

>

> No class/build should ever have any arrangement of selections whatsoever that allow the abovementioned effect to occur.

Couldn’t the same be said about a ton of other builds though? Is the problem that it’s efficient against too many builds? At most I would say leave the damage the same and remove some of the cover conditions so it’s easier to get the poison. But the main burst comes from the initial attack with venom utility applied.

And if they’re running thieves guild with poison share, then yes, there’s little you can do other than cleave they thieves guild down or try to kite. But thieves guild even on a power build is pretty strong.

To be honest though, you can build a chrono to play pretty similarly.

This build is kind of necessary in this meta though as a thief to be able to be efficient against bunkers. And in high level gameplay I doubt this build is that much of an issue. It’s still heavily dependent on having a good team and if you’re running core you’re sacrificing mobility.

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

>

> > So basically the point is to just decap and troll people? But if your team is constantly dying and there's someone from the enemy team on each point what are you supposed to do? Just troll and hope you lure in more people?

> >

> > And what if they have a thief? Then you can't really get away and if it's 2v1 or you're just bad at thief like I am you either die or take forever dueling them?

> >

> > lol I just don't see the point.

>

> Thief essentially functions as a Macro game sort of investment in a team comp.

>

> While the team is contesting mid, killing the opponent, the Thief's job is to do all the dirty work in the background to harass and slow down the opponent's point gain.

>

> If there is an enemy on each point just to stop yu the Thief from decapping, they have already lost because yu rotate mid where yur team is and +1 them, wiping the opponent at mid for a cap.

> Yur team can then move to cap the points where those fools are camping alone.

>

> If they have a Thief as well, yu may scuffle with them and force them off the point.

> As long as it decaps due to them backing off, yu already win.

> If their Thief is buddying another fool camping on point, it means they have 2 people on a node and 3 people out there asking to get +1d and killed.

>

> Thief doesn't even need to do damage in a +1 : they can be annoying and drop Smokescreen, essentially denying any on point combat for the opponent, spam choking gas, steal boons, interrupt actions, spam SB AA in the middle of a group.

>

> Thief needs to be where the enemy isn't and if they enemy is on node camping it, they +1 where the others are in order to push advantage slowly.

> In the end the point gap built from decapping opposing nodes will win the match.

>

I think the primary issue with that is that, while you may be top notch at decapping and minimalizing capture point progress, you're still heavily reliant on your team and if you're goal is to avoid dueling, you're kind of a hindrance. You could play mesmer or rev, have near the same mobility, and have more dueling presence. You're also able to do damage without relying heavily on blind windows and perfect positioning. At least with the dagger/pistol build. I guess that boils down to experience, gauging the other team's comp, and knowing whether or not you're going to gain any real benefit from playing a capture point bot.

Also, is this really the playstyle you want to be forced into as a thief? I tend to favor higher damage thief builds that don't rely solely on blind spam and interrupts though. The "low skill" builds. It's just more enjoyable for me than constantly watching the map or running laps.

> @"DragonSlayer.1087" said:

> Play the Cheese Condi P/D + SB Thief.....

That's what I resorted to. :joy:

It's still situational and you have to pick your targets, but you don't have to play perfectly to land any actual damage or feel like you're doing more than tickling someone. Before the only thing I felt comfortable attacking and confident killing was mesmers. Now I can look at a holo, lr dagger/focus ele, or guard and not feel like I'm just going to wind up tickling or suiciding.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > Honestly I don't think I've seen a single bot in NA this season.

> > >

> > > However, when I was ALTing on EU the other day, like every other game I was in had a Mirage Bot in it. And I'm not just calling bad players bots here. These Mirage Bots were definitely actually real bots, and for whatever reason they were all over the place EU.

> >

> > Yeah Ive seen more of those than I have actual mesmers (or thieves, for that matter. Seriously where are all the thief players?). The part I dont get is, why Mirage? Surely Guardian would be easier to bot. Or Necro.

>

> Yeah I dunno.

>

> If I were to try and make an efficient bot, I'd probably just roll Staff Daredevil and mod it to decap/hold and then leave fights if it was at even 50% resources, and then go to a new node to decap/hold do same thing again. Seems like that'd be more efficient of a bot than a Mirage that gets 1v1'd down on a side node.

>

> But I have no idea how bot programs actually work, so I assume there must be a reason why it apparently works well with Mirage.

>

Yeah, I would think a minion necro or ranger would be a better bot. I’m assuming mirage has to do with clones and using abilities based on distance to the enemy player. Im assuming they’re running staff, so they probably take into account what abilities to use in terms of generating clones too. Enemy is within 10 yards, use staff 2. Not enough clones, use staff 3. Enemy is casting, use staff 5. With fail safes like f3 for interrupts. A dodge, some weapon defensive, distortion. I haven’t seen any so I don’t know what build they’re running but condi mirage is easier to counter than ever. I’m sure it’s irritating having them on your team knowing they can get farmed though.

I’ve seen a few bunker ish builds that seemed to stand up well and be near unkillable but they did very little damage, so they might have just been inspiration chaos builds or something.

> @"Brycar.2651" said:

> Thank you so much for the bear shaman armor. I’ve wanted this so bad for yeaaaaaars!

Well let's hope you can obtain it reasonably and not out of sheer luck like the last few! Good luck!

> @"fumcheg.1936" said:

> The main and only problem with this build is that people complaining do not understand how this build work. That's where all this "free stealth on dodge", "condition burst not revealing" and other stuff comes from. Create thief yourself and try it. Once you learn how to kite and clean condies you will be fine with this build, I'm quite sure about it.

It can still be a difficult built to counter if you're not building for condi cleanse, due to the fast reapplication of conditions. I play the core condi build myself, and I think it's balanced in the fact that like every other thief build you're only op if your team is good enough to allow you the chance. But in 1v1 scenarios it can be quite annoying.

As far as conquest goes, your burst primarily comes from stealth. If they survive your first venom stack burst or reveal you, you're either running away or just toying with them long enough for your cooldowns to come up and providing much benefit in terms of capping a point.

There really aren't THAT many cover conditions though. I do love wrecking some holos and core guards with it though, and it's a great build for draining life force on necros.

At high rank I can't see the build being viable though.

Also, yes, if you're complaining about Repeater then you'd probably lose either way. Repeater isn't the main source of damage for this build and if you're running pistol/dagger it's pretty difficult to even land the first chain to unlock it. The main damage, as with all thief builds (correction* since heartseeker I believe is the bread and butter of dagger/pistol now and sword/dagger is just a teleport spamming nuissance), will be coming from the stealth attack.

My issue is with holo in general. One second you’re fighting them and have a leg up, then they heal to full and next thing you know there’s just a barrage of damage out of nowhere and you’re dead or they’re evading and blocking until their heal resets. It doesn’t even seem like the damage is coming from holo mode? Is it passive trait damage proccing from something? I’m pretty sure I see projectiles but they aren’t glowing?

It’s a very flashy spec and for some reason it’s always been difficult for me to tell what’s going on. And seemingly every holo meta build has had some bonus damage proccing from traits that seemed a bit too high. It’s much more manageable now, but these traits seem to not get balanced very well. Like damage on symbols, damage on fear, damage from cc’ing on ele.

Guard, ele, engi are definitely the biggest offenders though. Necro damage on fear isn’t really that threatening. The life siphon can be though.

You would think they would have incorporated races/strike missions/visions and such into the guild missions, but they never even included adventures or meta events or anything during Heart of Thorns.

Seems like they could at least add in a plethora of guild decorations though. It seems like outside of festivals they've just shifted to adding them as purchasable tokens from vendors instead of creating bloated scribing recipes, which is the right decision, but they don't add that many.

Also would be nice to get another guild hall option during this season, as they make something completely different from the existing ones. Some old abandoned jotun with snowy mountains and dense Redwood-esque forest would be pretty awesome. I'm already picturing the mini tree houses I could build out of Festival of the Four Winds decorations and beetle race platforms!

I'm curious about the bridge, that looks to be in the northern part of the map leading to the snowy area. Who built it? Jotun?

Could be pretty neat if the northern part of the map that gets released with episode 4 expands on Jotun lore. The map looks different than I expected it too. Less wooded. But only the very bottom section aligns with what we're familiar with in GW1. I think the umbral grotto is in the right place, so if it's a giant underground area it could be pretty neat. I don't know how they will carry over the wvw portion to the second half of the map though. Given the theme and the fact that the northern part of the map most likely returns to the snowy frigid area, I could fully see that being Bangar's last episode.

Perhaps we will win and he will retreat North. Theoretically Jormag was in between Bitterfrost and Eye of the North somewhere, but perhaps he's relocated?

I guess it's also possible the map could extend directly east into the giant lake portion.

It's still a long ways out and the trailer and masteries didn't sound overly exciting as I could just play an engineer, but the vision episode was better than expected even if short. And there are probably a lot of really pretty areas to the map that we haven't seen.

Good that we're still getting it as soon as we are though.

My biggest gripe really is about all of the weapon and armor skins they keep adding to these patches with horrible obtainment methods. I still don't have any of the raven armor, and I wasn't all that interested in the boreal weapons. But it really sucks to have a lot of those unique charr and norn armor skins locked behind rng loot drops. I was expecting strike currency to another way of obtaining them/grinding for them but maybe there's a chance they will add them in later on in the season as the old maps start to die down.

Here's to hoping we get some of the foliage/assets in this map added as guild decorations along with the bear shrine.