Zhaid Zhem.6508

Because, in all differents classes, in differents sets, there is no "pur" damage condition.

Vipere/sinister you have power/precision. There is no better set for condition damage. Or you take Dire/trailblazer etc, you won't win condition damage but you'll lose power damage

Some traits triggers on critical hits (bleedings etc) and so you want precision to do condition damage, and so you'll do or you also want to maximize power damage in your configuration.

Even weapons, you have power base, power coef etc.

In most of condi specs you also have power modificators (bonus damage, power, ferocity etc) or just you don't have more than 1 or 2 trailines for conditions.

If you do a power build, you rarely have, nor want, condition application or condition modificator. Except some builds ; some burning on guard, poison on soulbeast etc but it's at best an utility to maximize power damage (bonus damage on burnt foes, lifesteal etc) but you rarely count condition damage as impactful for your dps.

If you do a condition build you don't have the choice, you have an impactful "power part" in your dps, your gear, your traits, skills ...

About "power better for OW, condi better for that" ...It depends of meta/patchs, of classes, of paths, bosses, situation ...

With condition, as I said you can play trailblazer in OW, you won't lose too much DPS but you'll earn a lot of sustain. This isn't true if you play Soldier over berserker for example.

Then, it also depends your gameplay, classes.

With a power soulbeast, sure you have stronger DPS, burst etc, and kill a mob in 2sec but against one to three close targets in a cone. With a trapper soulbeast (or druid, whatever) you have potentialy more DPS against multiple foes : 2 traps, entangle, torch and you can watch 5 elites burn to death. What is the best ?

> @"zombyturtle.5980" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > The main reason people wipe over and over is that they don't want to adapt. They have their build, c/p from a website or not, and they think as it's "optimal" for 99% of situations there is no reason it can't work on this one.

> > Or they ask the fb / ren to adapt but themselves they don't care. And they repeat ... I've seen it multiple time with my FB.

> > Honor/virtues : Stab shout + stab ground + wall + renewed focus, everybody looks safe until I can't loop stab or a wall or/and they start running everywhere, diving in water, unable to cleave mobs, cleanse their own conditions ... and i'm alone trying to save 4 lost members in the 4 corners of the maps against 40 mobs, daze, wind ...

> > Where sometimes I just run wall+stab ground and everything is fine, because the ren also help, the DH also has stab/reflect, the berserker whirld in trashmobs and clean the boat, etc.

> >

> > How hard is it for a DH to take the wall + the stab field + why not renewed focus ? Or even switch to Fb and spam F1 and F3. For Sb, the stab stance + bear stance + stance share ? Holo, the arena + cleave/aoes ? Weaver can switch to tempest too, for warhon / magnetic aura, rebound ...

> > How hard is it to kill mobs sometimes rather than search for the boss wittingly ignoring mobs and aoes.

> >

> > All classes can have useful utilities for the group : stab, reflect, cleanse, aoe/cleave, boonstrip ... You don't necessarily to change all your build, but do a part of the job with 1-2 skills or traits. You don't care to lose >30% of your personal DPS if everybody survive this encounter.

> > If you die over and over in t2-t3 of this fractal, because you don't know the mechanics, your group is a bit bad ... okai.

> > T4, there is no excuse; yes this is a L2P issue, but this is T4 fractals, not your personal stance story. Adapt, collaborate.

>

> I mean...if you are running meta comp the whole reason you take hfb is so your team does not have to adapt and lose their damage. I agree if you are wiping over and over they should swap 1 ultility to help but as long as the dps avoid the orange blow aoe and stand in the greens, firebrand alone can carry the entire rest of the group with no changes needed.

>

> This obviously differs for non meta groups however which will lack dps to phase properly. If you are running off meta though, a single scourge will solo carry just as hard as firebrand.

>

> Also why are you running so much stab. It doesnt block the wind attack. Reflect would be better surely. Ren can also basically solo carry this frac with perma ventari bubble, unless there are horrible instabs.

This is T4 fractals, not random dungeon you do with newbies or story instance. You should be ready; you should know what comps/builds work better than others for all fractals, you should have unlocked all skills a long time ago already, may be have differents weapons in inventory, differents classes with agony resistance ...

I have been there too :

"You're the dps, c/p this build, work your rotation

_Ah okai, I'm the DPS...

_Why didn't you take this skill here ?

_But I'm the dps ... "

"Ignore mobs, ignore mechanics, rush the boss

_Okai I rush the boss

_Why didn't you pull the mobs here ?

_But later you said to ignore them ... "

And it's frustrating. I have lived these times where I played classes because people told others to play theses classes but I had no idea why, nor how to adapt. Or you join groups with differents strats, with portals, Skips, no healer, 2 healers, no burst, etc and you don't learn or you forget the mechanics of the fractals, the potential of your class ...

I had scenario with players who were so blindfolded they really forgot how to read a comp, read the weakness, the needs etc and couldn't even change one skill

"War, why don't we have banners ?

_I can't, I am DPS war, i don't play banner"

"We should take more support here, we have trouble with instabilities.

_Ah no, I am meta, I have done this boss like that, it is written in the sacred website we don't have to change anything for this situation. Pray SC and Discretize 3 times a day."

Really ??????????????

No. You can adapt, you can change roles, specs, skills, you can relog, sacrifice some DPS, or some support if this allows your group to succeed.

Of course you don't need power brigade ascended food + portals+ shovels etc, of course the boss is harder than in other fractals, but if no one in your group is or has a DH in his characters, and so a FB (click on the third spec > FB instead of DH, done), if no one has a weaver, and so tempest, or Scourge, or revenant, a healer, a support, etc, with ~110 agony resistance, if you can't take 2 minutes to advise a strategy, skills, yeah you will have a lot of troubles, but you shouldn't be in T4.

Yes the fractal is harder than others. Yes, git gud ; don't rush headlong, blindfolded.

> @"panzerdragon.8791" said:

> I would say chrono, fire brand, and alac.

>

> If you have these three professions you can raid or frac whenever you want. You can tank , boon, and hard carry your way to victory. I can't think of a comp that doesn't run any of these classes.

>

> All these classes also have good dps builds for solo play as well .

Chrono doesn't really match well in fractals, in "good" scenarios.

Time warp is unplayable with short phases/fights and you don't have other good sources of Slow, so you need to take Improved alacrity and some more assassins's accessories; it's already less more dmg than the expected benchmark in raids. Same with chronophantasma, it's too hazardous; some groups can burst all phases before half your second phantasms trigger.

I'm not saying you can't deal strong damage in PUG etc, but in a good composition Chrono is not close to be "meta".

Support chrono. With the come back of IP it's anew playable; but FB/ren is a so strong package of utilities for all fractals and instabilities you can't really compete.

> @"zombyturtle.5980" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > The main reason people wipe over and over is that they don't want to adapt. They have their build, c/p from a website or not, and they think as it's "optimal" for 99% of situations there is no reason it can't work on this one.

> > Or they ask the fb / ren to adapt but themselves they don't care. And they repeat ... I've seen it multiple time with my FB.

> > Honor/virtues : Stab shout + stab ground + wall + renewed focus, everybody looks safe until I can't loop stab or a wall or/and they start running everywhere, diving in water, unable to cleave mobs, cleanse their own conditions ... and i'm alone trying to save 4 lost members in the 4 corners of the maps against 40 mobs, daze, wind ...

> > Where sometimes I just run wall+stab ground and everything is fine, because the ren also help, the DH also has stab/reflect, the berserker whirld in trashmobs and clean the boat, etc.

> >

> > How hard is it for a DH to take the wall + the stab field + why not renewed focus ? Or even switch to Fb and spam F1 and F3. For Sb, the stab stance + bear stance + stance share ? Holo, the arena + cleave/aoes ? Weaver can switch to tempest too, for warhon / magnetic aura, rebound ...

> > How hard is it to kill mobs sometimes rather than search for the boss wittingly ignoring mobs and aoes.

> >

> > All classes can have useful utilities for the group : stab, reflect, cleanse, aoe/cleave, boonstrip ... You don't necessarily to change all your build, but do a part of the job with 1-2 skills or traits. You don't care to lose >30% of your personal DPS if everybody survive this encounter.

> > If you die over and over in t2-t3 of this fractal, because you don't know the mechanics, your group is a bit bad ... okai.

> > T4, there is no excuse; yes this is a L2P issue, but this is T4 fractals, not your personal stance story. Adapt, collaborate.

>

> I mean...if you are running meta comp the whole reason you take hfb is so your team does not have to adapt and lose their damage. I agree if you are wiping over and over they should swap 1 ultility to help but as long as the dps avoid the orange blow aoe and stand in the greens, firebrand alone can carry the entire rest of the group with no changes needed.

>

> This obviously differs for non meta groups however which will lack dps to phase properly. If you are running off meta though, a single scourge will solo carry just as hard as firebrand.

>

> Also why are you running so much stab. It doesnt block the wind attack. Reflect would be better surely. Ren can also basically solo carry this frac with perma ventari bubble, unless there are horrible instabs.

daze

But you have elemental glyphs !

Ah yeah, they have 3sec icd strike, 3/4 of their skills don't trigger your traits (as Lightning rod) and they die when you mount but it didn't recharge the CD. Very smart design.

The main reason people wipe over and over is that they don't want to adapt. They have their build, c/p from a website or not, and they think as it's "optimal" for 99% of situations there is no reason it can't work on this one.

Or they ask the fb / ren to adapt but themselves they don't care. And they repeat ... I've seen it multiple time with my FB.

Honor/virtues : Stab shout + stab ground + wall + renewed focus, everybody looks safe until I can't loop stab or a wall or/and they start running everywhere, diving in water, unable to cleave mobs, cleanse their own conditions ... and i'm alone trying to save 4 lost members in the 4 corners of the maps against 40 mobs, daze, wind ...

Where sometimes I just run wall+stab ground and everything is fine, because the ren also help, the DH also has stab/reflect, the berserker whirld in trashmobs and clean the boat, etc.

How hard is it for a DH to take the wall + the stab field + why not renewed focus ? Or even switch to Fb and spam F1 and F3. For Sb, the stab stance + bear stance + stance share ? Holo, the arena + cleave/aoes ? Weaver can switch to tempest too, for warhon / magnetic aura, rebound ...

How hard is it to kill mobs sometimes rather than search for the boss wittingly ignoring mobs and aoes.

All classes can have useful utilities for the group : stab, reflect, cleanse, aoe/cleave, boonstrip ... You don't necessarily to change all your build, but do a part of the job with 1-2 skills or traits. You don't care to lose >30% of your personal DPS if everybody survive this encounter.

If you die over and over in t2-t3 of this fractal, because you don't know the mechanics, your group is a bit bad ... okai.

T4, there is no excuse; yes this is a L2P issue, but this is T4 fractals, not your personal stance story. Adapt, collaborate.

They should add a mutiny button in squad :+1:

No more toxic "uber"/almighty commanders :astonished:

I also think we go too easily with rev. It's a bit the old core warrior; as long as you had banners + EA you were not looking at the dps and you had warrior with 6k DPS, no mace no CC, etc in 100cm pug, but it was fine apparently (You added a low DPS chrono + zero DPS druid, it was optimal :+1: ). Where nowadays Berserkers you can see them top dps with the peak performance build for fractals.

Stab and Demon stance are the common points or the complaints and I don't see so many issues with that, except one wipe/gg may be.

But the real prerequisites : F2-F4 perma alacrity+ the 12 mights, AP, the staff (+ darkrazor daze), soulcleave's summit, and a correct dps (~10k) ... erh....

It's not that easy to play if don't want to be out of energy, make good use of Charged Mists and of course all differents utilities, But I rarely see a lot of impactful ren.

Too much optimization for one fractal for my liking.

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > It was nerfed for PvP purpose because players whined about chill at that moment (it wasn't especially due to death charge and other things, it was just to tone done chill output in sPvP/WvW. Chill output that have been tuned down furthermore when they reduced the number of whirl finisher and incread the power damage of soul spiral.

>

> Death's Charge didn't exist when the 3 second ICD was introduced. That was done before the Specialization update pre-Heart of Thorns.

>

> We have literally never gotten to use no-ICD Chilling Darkness and Reaper together.

>

>

You*

Obviously. They have nerfed the trait because of the beta.

You can have both, why chose ?

You can also run condi FB and you spam the AA of trident, you'll be surprised :+1:

Heal fb, you have many possibilities ;

You can play with pure of voice + "retreat" rather than W o P (and not "kitten") if no one stand in your awkward symbols or near your mantras

Virtues + Battle presence + renewed focus, you spam F2 F3 to heal people

Even Zeal + Eternal Armory and you spam the bow of truth.

Etc. Actually I don't think there is "better healer" than FB for this fractal*.

The trait have been nerfed years ago because of well of darkness, the almost spammable death's charge etc and of course doubled with the nerf of Deathly Chill.

Then, 4 years after : new well of darkness with new chill on pulse and dmg :/

I think the icd is right, the chill is like >2sec in PvP if I remember, potentielly every 3sec ... it doesn't need more. It's really strong if you know how to space out skills/traits and should not reward with an almost instant 20sec chill people who overlap all theirs skills with blindness in the seconde.

If you're talking about Pve. Cold shoulder could give a condition damage modifier or Deathly chill could get back its 3 stacks of bleeding for 6sec as it would also reward all the whirl combos etc than just put the WoD+ nightfall for 32*(16sec) bleedings minimum without icd on Chilling darkness.

Chilling darkness buff is not the centerpièce in my opinion to make condi reaper viable (pve or pvp), and not brainded.

If you have trouble you can run double signets (spite* + the LF regen) with signets of suffering, instead of WoD and awaken The Pain.

In theory you lose 250 power and a well but in fact you earn 20 power in shroud which is the bigger part of the dps +a nice life force regen that help to maintain shroud or generate it.

On golem it is certainly not DPS increase but in practice when you get constantly hit the opposite is true.

Sometimes it's even better to have the signet and spam DS #1 to recharge DS skills rather than leaving the shroud to recharge +10% dmg and generate LF, but with lower DPS overall.

For example if you're not sure to place effectively your wells, or when there is a lot of mobs and so you generate LF infinitely + recharge DS #4 in <10sec.

The issue with grieving set is the low precision (there is like +15% precision difference with sinister/berserker) who actually gives poor power damage despite the "high" power and ferocity, for PvE.

When you can raise +10% or more precision with your specs, signets etc, and you have fury, it's okaiish (reaper, ranger, guard, revenant) but for weaver it's meh.

You have a vitality conversion, and+10% against weakness, but this is gimmick, you've even lost the perma fury from fire. Plus they have nerfed all burning duration everywhere.

Grieving could be better for weaver if the 4 stats were at the same threshold so a slight precision increase or may be (max)power/precision (min)condi/ferocity

A hybrid weaver was playable in fractals, precisely with the precision bonus but you needed marauder to max. The burst was really good but dps went done slowly, it was okai for fractals and short fights/phases.

I'm not sure it's still current with all the nerf of burning and the slight power buff.

But if you want a Hybrid/condi that work everywhere (OW, Raids/fractals, pvp etc) you can also play condi FB and it's 10 times stronger and easier, you don't need someone to loop fury, weaknes etc for you. In fractals actually condi FB often surpass power dps in PUG because of the bosses' toughness with just a small delay in the burst. And it's broken for siren's reef, Deepstone, shattered observatory ...

It will never be better than Berserker or Vipere but it works okai for OW but also fractal (Worked ? They have nerfed burning from traits and skills, I haven't tried since years)

For fractals :

You need a mix, because you also want the max precision to benefit from ferocity / air.

I don't remember with accuracy but something like that (you earn 10~12% precision with agony resistance and potions in fractals)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAwilJwkYUsLmJOqKrvKA-zRZYmBhyGurioBCjqCoLBcWmUE-e

Edit* I forgot the sigil in the stat, so you need more marauder actually for 100% precision

Weaver prowess gives +20% condition duration. So builds with sigil of smoldering are a bit of mistake, as they lose 10% and may be more again with the expertise food etc. So I think the best is some vipere + sigil of bursting.

The food 15% burning duration could be an option too.

Between runes of Balthazar or runes of the Flame legion ... it's near the same actually. It also depends of the crystal/sharpen stone

Mine is Bhaltazar because it's stronger for OW.

Sword and dagger don't have the same utilities.

Sword you have a gap closer (or kite) with air#2, riptide to dodge and kite a fight with very simple combo (earth #2 #4 #5, air #2 fire #2...); you have a cool barrier on fire/earth, a fat pressure to punish rez or rooted people with pyrovortex, gale strike, etc etc.

Dagger is more for brawling with weakness, cc, a damage reduction, a projectil block...; you have also a lot of leaps but it needs unravel or attune to same element, it's not as easy at sword #2 air or water, and doesn't travel walls of course.

And most of your attacks are 240-300 when often people have 130-180 range ; so be smart and you can attack at the good range avoiding to be hit (for example the dagger whirl from soulbeast, sand shades etc).

You don't have a better weapon overall, it depends what you want to play, against who.

For example I can't play WvW without dagger/dagger or d/f; 360° attacks, you can chain leaps to kite, more cc, more range, block, easier when outnumbered etc, etc etc; but in PvP, no matter the build (fireweaver, celestial, power etc) I play sword more often.

A build i've been experimenting too for zergs / small group.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAsilFwoYQMP2JOeKqvMA-zVRYBhJGN4yIiEoiCw2DSYUCA-w

The point is to select a target, use dual attacks, fresh air etc, then use unravel + fire + 4 + 3 + 5

You can't play it alone, as you're mid-melee and you need at least >8 mights, quickness is also very useful here and sustain. You won't be top* DPS but you have an insane burst: you find the ennemie commander, dual attacks for example earth/air + fire/earth+ unravel.

I've already done 22k in <2sec with simple rotation against a ministrel FB

Con : it's a bit useless for big zergs: no real aoe, no real dps outside burst, you need to train with scepter, etc. It's better for small squads where you can easily focus one guy with your mates.

Staff is, easier, and certainly more useful in most of situations, but if you want to try something else, and not support tempest; it can be fun.

We'd prefer rune of packs; so with power/precision and cool mights and fury that can help to maintain the 25 mights or cap fury if you don't have a nice druid, sword DH etc ; you lose 10% BD compared to leadership you can recover with the sigil, or Diviner trinkets.

Plus, if you play with alacrity renegade, you don't really need a lot of BD, so even runes of pack are not recommended (we'd prefer scholar, eagle, whatever DPS runes).

Other wise if you play "tank chrono" + druid, no ones cares, really: play the runes you want, no one will know.

For OW I like the necro/reaper, not the funniest class but Strong DPS, sustain, cc and self-buff alone ( 2 Aoe with blindness, might/quickness/vulnerability). Everything is just so easy with reaper, even new maps 1vs10 elites, you use the Nightfall + shroud, bam, muti-kills.

I like too my trapper druid. Druid spec is not really useful, it's just for the +25% speed and ancient seed; but it has strong burst against multi targets, with CC/immobilize. very easy and safe build to play, perfect for OW.

For PvP. I do a bit of all classes, I don't have favorite; it depends of the mood, If I win or lose 5 matchs with a class, etc.

For WvW. I'm a masochist; I try hard weaver for roaming and DPS weaver for zergs. It's not the OP class; I can win more duels with my mesmer for example: but I like the versatility and the tank potential when outnumbered for roaming, and DPS is still okaish for zerg even after so many nerfs.

Weaver is just so smooth and frantic to play, fun gameplay, I really love it; even if they dig it underground with more nerfs I would still play it. Other classes just bore me.

Use Renewed Focus + a random breakstun instead of the signet of wrath. No need to change gear.

To me it is important that Auramancer has to be a Core spec. And not only playable with Tempest.

I mean, except may be Fire traitline for personal sustain, all core traits about auras are useles ; You have at best two aura per weapons, on different attunements, +25s CD etc; why should you take the core traits on auras ? Powerful Aura, zephyr boons, soothing ice, the prot on auras, elemental shielding, ....they are useless without Tempest.

But it means to move Elemental Bastion, then move the auras from shouts to others skills ( glyphs, cantrips ... ).

About your others traitline. I like the idea, but it means complete overhaul, months of complaints, balances, etc :astonished:

I prefer they keep the traitline as they are and adjust the traits, one by one, rather than destroy/change all specs by one stroke of a pen.

Hope it won't be a pur dps spec. We have (had) already two DPS e-spec, then they slowly dug the hole to be, today, barely noticeable. I don't want the same for the next one. Deadeye Fire For Effect was outstanding, but fury/mightbot ... an other one ? :# And not the best one. :#

But, reading the core traits, I don't see logical others roles. There is no real support in core, except some gimmicks like venom share, Signet of Agility, some heal on stealth or f1 ... Hard to design something else than an other selfish spec.

Or a ground targeting F1 (like scourge), classic you'll do the steal but to 3-5 enemies in a zone, but you could also support easier with Shadow Savior if you target your allies, traits to share the effects of Steal, stealth attack, and the stolen skill (thrill of the crime, hidden thief, Mug, Improvisation, double the effect of shadow savior and ... that's all ?)

The gloves Dominion Tribune Manica earned with "Jormag Rising" Mastery only unlock the skin for one weight.

I don't know if it is intented or a bug.

Nothing in gwwiki for now.

It happens sometimes; nerf, balance, overhaul etc.

If you see a skill not working as it did, first is to check the description of the skill, then your build, your gear,... before incriminate devs, bad game design etc.

Especially when you have downloaded some mo of an Update, this is the first correlation to do.