Zhaid Zhem.6508

I don't really like the bonus from the weaver runes. I mean, yes the barrier on stance is cool and much better than the leap thing totally unplyable with weaver (still it's ~450, neither broken) but the burning and chill duration ??? Why, anet ? :anguished:

The previous bonus were better IMO, it gave +15 condi duration, it's not a lot more than 10% but it was a bit better for Weakness too, vulnerability ... they could have improved it with +20% CD or add +10% BD :anguished:

But I'll give a try, I have an useless berserker/assassin armor since a while on my PvE elem, lol.

I'm not sure to understand the question.

The next chapters to LS season 1, are the season2, then HoT etc.

>Dodge two attacks back to back

What i'm supposed to dodge ? Every attacks twice ? I don't get this one.

> @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > > @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> > > Wait.. we still use scepter? Ummm what? *weeps in nostalgia over the lost FA burst while dying to similarly OP holo damage which hasn't been nerfed*

> >

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2WUXKvMA-zVhYBRDbIISxgyOCS4MCTC0yCwWHkwYD8WiYZD-w

> > You kill everything in <2sec.

> > Can use sigil of Cleansing over Celerity, mostly if you roam alone; Arcane precision to have +15% precision a bit longer but less sustain, etc etc.

> > Rune of speed, or Zephyrite are also very nice but you lose a lot of DPS, so it can hurt badly the burst. Or whatever you want. (Eagle, Rage, Air, ogre, etc)

> > And you take 3 defensive/breakstun utility skills : arcane shield, armor of earth, ToF, signet of air, flash, etc. The healing skill you want, the elite skill you want.

> >

> > Fresh air is not dead in WvW, but you need to choose your enemies and the field very carefully, to avoid the newcomers and backstabs, because everything can kill you too in 2sec if you have on CD arcane shield, flash ...

> > If you want to brawl alone versus 10 players it's defenitly not the weapon not the build you want.

>

> I agree I sometimes run a freshair build in wvw but I never run it solo. I'm not that good with it like some of the people who made the make roaming great again videos. I was originally crying about the nerf in Spvp. The damage nerf in Spvp was insane! Even now a sic em soulbeast with its nerfed damage does more than a fresh air weaver with the nerfs on their lb2 burst and it has more sustain. A holo can hit you harder by timing grenades with explosive entrance.. like.. why anet? why only fresh air...

I rarely play fresh air. I play mostly weaver d/d Fire/arcane or water/arcane.

Sometimes when I've got OS by one without any possibility to counter, I'm like "REVENGE" so I come back to him with my fresh air, but then I lose more more fights because there are always newcomers, or group of 2 or 3, or some one who hit me first, then I have a big fat disadvantage in these cases. Plus there are more better fresh-air than me, also because somes play in group, so with support (heal, stab, mights etc) and they can play more glass; and I'm not masochist enought to train more.

While with my mesmer, chrono, mirage or core. I have no struggle to survive, kill or flee; and I kill people as fast as fresh-air. Calculation is quickly made.

> @"skunkstank.6128" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > > @"Sytriel.9413" said:

> > > > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > > > > @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> > > > > Wait.. we still use scepter? Ummm what? *weeps in nostalgia over the lost FA burst while dying to similarly OP holo damage which hasn't been nerfed*

> > > >

> > > > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2WUXKvMA-zVhYBRDbIISxgyOCS4MCTC0yCwWHkwYD8WiYZD-w

> > > > You kill everything in <2sec.

> > > > Can use sigil of Cleansing over Celerity, mostly if you roam alone; Arcane precision to have +15% precision a bit longer but less sustain, etc etc.

> > > > Rune of speed, or Zephyrite are also very nice but you lose a lot of DPS, so it can hurt badly the burst. Or whatever you want. (Eagle, Rage, Air, ogre, etc)

> > > > And you take 3 defensive/breakstun utility skills : arcane shield, armor of earth, ToF, signet of air, flash, etc. The healing skill you want, the elite skill you want.

> > > >

> > > > Fresh air is not dead in WvW, but you need to choose your enemies and the field very carefully, to avoid the newcomers and backstabs, because everything can kill you too in 2sec if you have on CD arcane shield, flash ...

> > > > If you want to brawl alone versus 10 players it's defenitly not the weapon not the build you want.

> > >

> > > Why trait One with Air? Wouldn't Ferocious Winds be a better option here? One of the key points of FA builds is to stay in Air as much as possible so One with Air seems redundant. Or am I missing something from your build?

> >

> > Because you don't camp Air.

> > Fresh air recharge Air attunement + give a ferocity buff for 5sec when attuning to Air. So you do stuff with others attunements, then frequently swap to Air.

>

> So the rotation is basically air/air -> fire/air ->air/fire -> air/air ->????

> seems kind of bad when scepter skills on ele are really bad except for air skills

You have a lot of combos. But they are not all easy to place.

Simple ;

Earth/Air #5+ #3 + Air + Air + #2 (you can also use GoEP for this one)

Fire/air #3+ air + air + #2.

Or Air/fire #5+#5 + #3 + Air+ #2

Fire/earth or Earth/fire #3 + Air + #3 + Air + #2

Etc, all others dual attacks have lower DPS/burst or need to target the ground but are useful for sustain (evades, chill, stab ...)

Otherwise the mega combo.

Earth/air #5 + #3 + Swap Fire/earth while casting + #2 + #3 + Swap air/fire while casting + #3 + Air while casting + #2 #3. It needs some habits to swap attunement while casting particular skills (and so have Air Available), don't interrupt some others, and don't double swap to air too fast and miss the air/fire.

Quickness is also close to mandatory, or people have time to breaskstun and dodge Dragon's tooth etc.

You also need to know which skills you need to cast in a cone in front of you, and the skills that don't need to face the enemie (the trait in air, air #2 #3 for example, but also dual water/earth, Comet, etc) and so allow you to run in the opposite direction with superspeed while you finish your combo, or to blind/chill/CC rather than face and get hurt.

> @"Sytriel.9413" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > > @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> > > Wait.. we still use scepter? Ummm what? *weeps in nostalgia over the lost FA burst while dying to similarly OP holo damage which hasn't been nerfed*

> >

> > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2WUXKvMA-zVhYBRDbIISxgyOCS4MCTC0yCwWHkwYD8WiYZD-w

> > You kill everything in <2sec.

> > Can use sigil of Cleansing over Celerity, mostly if you roam alone; Arcane precision to have +15% precision a bit longer but less sustain, etc etc.

> > Rune of speed, or Zephyrite are also very nice but you lose a lot of DPS, so it can hurt badly the burst. Or whatever you want. (Eagle, Rage, Air, ogre, etc)

> > And you take 3 defensive/breakstun utility skills : arcane shield, armor of earth, ToF, signet of air, flash, etc. The healing skill you want, the elite skill you want.

> >

> > Fresh air is not dead in WvW, but you need to choose your enemies and the field very carefully, to avoid the newcomers and backstabs, because everything can kill you too in 2sec if you have on CD arcane shield, flash ...

> > If you want to brawl alone versus 10 players it's defenitly not the weapon not the build you want.

>

> Why trait One with Air? Wouldn't Ferocious Winds be a better option here? One of the key points of FA builds is to stay in Air as much as possible so One with Air seems redundant. Or am I missing something from your build?

Because you don't camp Air.

Fresh air recharge Air attunement + give a ferocity buff for 5sec when attuning to Air. So you do stuff with others attunements, then frequently swap to Air.

It supports yourself =) Yeah I meant sustain.

Otherwise it is overused with Explosives/Tools, flashbang + Adrenal implant because you roam faster/longer than with sotrage unit and than any other class.

> @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> Wait.. we still use scepter? Ummm what? *weeps in nostalgia over the lost FA burst while dying to similarly OP holo damage which hasn't been nerfed*

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2WUXKvMA-zVhYBRDbIISxgyOCS4MCTC0yCwWHkwYD8WiYZD-w

You kill everything in <2sec.

Can use sigil of Cleansing over Celerity, mostly if you roam alone; Arcane precision to have +15% precision a bit longer but less sustain, etc etc.

Rune of speed, or Zephyrite are also very nice but you lose a lot of DPS, so it can hurt badly the burst. Or whatever you want. (Eagle, Rage, Air, ogre, etc)

And you take 3 defensive/breakstun utility skills : arcane shield, armor of earth, ToF, signet of air, flash, etc. The healing skill you want, the elite skill you want.

Fresh air is not dead in WvW, but you need to choose your enemies and the field very carefully, to avoid the newcomers and backstabs, because everything can kill you too in 2sec if you have on CD arcane shield, flash ...

If you want to brawl alone versus 10 players it's defenitly not the weapon not the build you want.

Thermal release valve is already a very powerful trait, and it's supposed to be the "support" trait, not to compete with Photo Blasting Module.

Plus it should be a buff in the core traitlines. We don't have more than one "condi" traitline (except Shrapnel in Explosive, but it's the only trait in the lane + RNG again), while power has some buff also in Explosive, tools ...

Why not revert "Grenadier" to cast anew an extra grenade ; add +20 condition damage to Explosive Temper (200 is may be a bit too excessive, but hey) or make the "Assisted rocket" to have 100% chance with Shrapnel, or apply by default a condition.

> @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > > @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > > > @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

> > > >

> > > > To be fair, weaver damage isn't really there anymore...

> > >

> > > I wouldn't say that, FA weaver has pretty competitive damage output still, but the trade-off is that sometimes you're just going to get wrecked (mostly by thieves).

> > >

> > > Such is life.

> > >

> > > https://imgur.com/ASZD1Wn

> >

> >

> > Yes it could, but : in WvW, against class with no invu/block, no stab when you backstab them.

> > You could also play with gimmicks : sigil of celerity + sigil of severance + arcane Lockdown, so with air/earth you proc (weakness) + fury+quickness+240ferocity, for your burst fire/air + Electric discharge + Electric discharge +air #2 #3 ; or if you use weaveself earth/air, air/earth, air/air and wait for fire/air, air/fire, air/air, a bit longer but more buff, more dps. You're pretty sure to OS everybody : War / rev with protection or defense etc, but it's clearly not elem newbie friendly build; you have to know how to trigger all the differents buffs, to swap and rotate attunements while casting skills and reading the fight, ... and to place yourself, kite etc. If you fight against 2 or 3 players, or another class with blocks/stab or a trailblazer necro/mirage etc, you die, very fast or you have to flee very fast.

> > The big issue is the serrated DPS, if you miss your burst you have only kitten skills or skills with delay (dragon's tooth, shattersone etc) to wait for the next one. This isn't true with mesmer for example, for almost the same burst but twice the sustain and dps, or deadeye, etc.

> > It works "okai" in WvW, with food, ascended gear and infuz, runes and sigils and may be allies close. It doesn't work really fine in PvP because everything is polished, burst is almost half less the numbers compared to WvW so you need more skill, more knowledge, a good reading and reaction of the situation.. . This is really masochism to play fresh air weaver in pvp, or you're a legend player with bionic eyes and fingers. Better play fresh air tempest and spam schoking aura for 5 players, it's 10 times easier. And in OW it's worst, because you have to wait 15 seconds between mobs, worst weapon for OW...

>

> Oh don't get me wrong, it's not a "top tier" class/build that plays for you like some of the more braindead meta classes out there.

> I just don't agree that it's /useless/ or /unplayable/ like some drama llamas make it out to be.

So we agree.

> @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

> > >

> > > Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

> >

> > To be fair, weaver damage isn't really there anymore...

>

> I wouldn't say that, FA weaver has pretty competitive damage output still, but the trade-off is that sometimes you're just going to get wrecked (mostly by thieves).

>

> Such is life.

>

> https://imgur.com/ASZD1Wn

Yes it could, but : in WvW, against class with no invu/block, no stab when you backstab them.

You could also play with gimmicks : sigil of celerity + sigil of severance + arcane Lockdown, so with air/earth you proc (weakness) + fury+quickness+240ferocity, for your burst fire/air + Electric discharge + Electric discharge +air #2 #3 ; or if you use weaveself earth/air, air/earth, air/air and wait for fire/air, air/fire, air/air, a bit longer but more buff, more dps. You're pretty sure to OS everybody : War / rev with protection or defense etc, but it's clearly not elem newbie friendly build; you have to know how to trigger all the differents buffs, to swap and rotate attunements while casting skills and reading the fight, ... and to place yourself, kite etc. If you fight against 2 or 3 players, or another class with blocks/stab or a trailblazer necro/mirage etc, you die, very fast or you have to flee very fast.

The big issue is the serrated DPS, if you miss your burst you have only shitty skills or skills with delay (dragon's tooth, shattersone etc) to wait for the next one. This isn't true with mesmer for example, for almost the same burst but twice the sustain and dps, or deadeye, etc.

It works "okai" in WvW, with food, ascended gear and infuz, runes and sigils and may be allies close. It doesn't work really fine in PvP because everything is polished, burst is almost half less the numbers compared to WvW so you need more skill, more knowledge, a good reading and reaction of the situation.. . This is really masochism to play fresh air weaver in pvp, or you're a legend player with bionic eyes and fingers. Better play fresh air tempest and spam schoking aura for 5 players, it's 10 times easier. And in OW it's worst, because you have to wait 15 seconds between mobs, worst weapon for OW...

You don't care about bleeding and burning on Arcane Precision, but you have weakness for 3sec, everywhere 3sec and the vulnerability is not bad either with Piercing Shard, a free +5%/10% dmg for ~8sec.

Yes the trait alone is useless, all the point is to have easier access to some synergies.

The very first HOURS of Strength of Stone there was no ICD, but like in the day or the next day they added one. Then the 1 bleeding stack over the 3...

It's damaging, because the "meme build" arcane (arcane surge)/earth has many counters, but it could have been a viable build for core with Fire or Water; may be more than tempest/weaver who would have missed some cleanse in the specs.

But outside of Arcane surge Elem has close to zero immobilize, so the trait seems really awkward.

As you say power sword holo is very effective with very simple rotation. Honestly I see almost only* lazy holos playing without kits, however they are still doing great work.

Condi ? You need 15 fingers so a third hand, between pistols, grenades, flametrower, bombs, remember the CD, dontt equip if CD on, don't interupt skills, ... If you're masochist and like to do 150% of others classes efforts, at least you should play condi weaver, it's more effective and a bit less punitive if you fail at some point.

But that's all. We don't need to buff all roles equally, condi, power, support etc, because of golems, *unless to balance meta sometimes.

Except may be Thermal Vision. There was a time this trait gave 10% condition damage, I don't get why they nerfed it to 5%, it was not particulary "broken".

I don't get how you can't see it like an issue. No more self buff ? No utility skill with fury or might, you need air or arcane (and even that you can't loop fury), you need dagger air #2, you need runes and sigils but that's okai, no drama.

Of course they could kill elem for good. So rather than nerf it slowly patchs after patchs and try hard to find a viable build ; we could delete, once and for all, our character and give our equipment to Mesmer for a half more burst and sustain, or Necro which Axe #2 can deal the same damage of Plasma Beam + Earthen synergy and he's a freaking tank nowadays. Or build condi signet trailblazer and kill greedy players in duel.

Make no mistake : tempest fresh-air+ shocking aura are on the list for the next patch. But no issue, no drama, support tempest and trailblazer signets still okai.

Time warp doesn't couple right with most of fractals fights ; also chronophantasma; too short phases everywhere. (For example, on MAMA people can burst the 25% before your second phantasm triggers) You can try with well of action in a CS but i don't remember the duration it's around ~8second with CS, it's not worth. Plus you should prefer the gravity well.

Plus you also earn ~12% precision with potions, so the +15% from DT is not that mandatory. IA seems a better choice IMO.

The deadeye's Mark abuse is just so strong in OW you can't really compete.

Premeditation + BQoBK + Trickery traitline + critical strikes (no quarter or Invigorating precision) = you ** chain** mobs really, really, really fast.

Initiatives isn't an issue with Pew/pew and trickery for random mobs : Unload only cost 3 initiative point, so you can unload 5-6 before you're out; mark refills 2 iniatives, then you can also use Quick Pocket trait, or skills like Mercy, the roll, the signet etc.

For champions or meta events, yes M7 could be more effective but you'll need stealth or One in the Chamber; too much effort for me for OW.

I don't really see the issue here. Exotic is outdated. You can find the same set with different tokens. With the 8 dungeons achievement you can farm the tokens you want pretty easily if you need a gift or runes, or weapons/armors.

Even for newbies, they better have to gear one character with craft or BLTC, then farm fractals, strikes, pvp ... to gear their characters with ascended; but not dungeons.

You coud, but it's a bit annoying IMO to gear with a sigil only for some instabilities. And if I remember some tests on my mesmer the sigil should only work on bosses when defiance bar is up.

Otherwise you have Renegade with Mallyx, you have chrono with fantasm and others, Reaper with GS and focus, holo with the mines, SpB, thief with Trickery, herald with assassin's form of the f2... etc I may forget some skills.

If your group can't change one utility skill or trait to remove boons, they don't deserve you to take a sigil.

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> Staff has been dead for a long time, so I'm not sure what all the drama is about with this trait change. Yeah, it's uncalled for and random (anet style), but I don't see anything game breaking here. Aura Share Support Tempest is doing great as before. Roaming condi tempest melts targets even faster now.

> _shrugs_

As you say : core trailine changes > unnecessary buff for support tempest in exchange of the loss of fury and mights for Core elem and weaver.

And you don't see the issue ?

If you're playing weaver you can counter it with d/d unravel. or d/f.

Weaveself + air/earth dual attack = 20+25% damage reduction. You have leaps, #3 fire/fire, fire/water, water/earth, earth/earth, #4 air. You have daze/stun (more with focus), gale, comet, mud slide, air/water #3 etc. You have flash. You have #2 earth to block projectiles for ~2sec with 6sec cd, which is very very strong against range classes (like you can block the #3 and #4 LB ranger, then leap etc) and on focus, earth #4 and air #4.

I'm not saying it's easy. It's not.

Clearly a dagger or sword thief should not have a chance against d/x weaver (mostly if you play with Superior Elements or Lightning rod) but a rifle deadeye ... he's range, you're not ... he has more kites and movement speed than you, he can harass you or leave whenever he wants.

There was a time ~a year ago where weaver could be stupidly strong everywhere in good hands, but with all the nerfs of Stances (stab + cd) the nerfs of power and condi specifically for weaver, the double nerf of healing base + healing coef hitting hard elem who almost always played with healing power, and now the nerf of fury and mights in fire lane, etc, you need courage and you must love doing 150% of others efforts to compete.

Edit.

Otherwise yes shadow arts + rifle can be a bit annoying if he plays full stealh in utily skills (Dodge, + shadow meld + blinding power + the heal skill) because you can't count 1-2 or 3 sec and dodge/block or turn back to avoid the backstab. The guy can just vanish, use death's retreat and stay at 1200 range for >6sec, even reset the fight and you"re like an idi*t giving attacks in the air and burning your endurance.

The condi double shortbow [meme build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PakAUVlRwoYHsLGJO2WdNPA-zRJYmRBfZEZCkZBYwA-e)

You spam 4+2+dodges in the order you want (combo everywhere) until you need to swap weapon. Make no mistake, it's really effective in OW; daze everywhere (torment + pulmonary impact) (even if they have nerfed Schoking gas) and of course a lot of poisons, bleeding, torment with the dodge. Even in wvw. Much less in raids/strikes because a big part of dps comes from whirl combo.

An other condi p/d [meme build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PakAoilZwoYHMF2IO2WtvOA-zRJYmRDfZUQBEZCYwA-e) which actually works quite well in group content.

You spam 3, then 5+1 when malice up, etc.

A bit less for OW, with BQBK + trhill of the crime but not as effective as power pew/pew in this mod. I have tried once with runes of FB + haste + Burst of agility, for quickness uptime .... So you have quickness uptime, but the loss of DPS is not worth.

Otherwise, the classics : Pew/Pew BQBK spam 3 deadeye (works too with rifle, and D/Pew). Staff Daredevil etc.

I don't find meme/gimmick builds with core thief. It works, something hybrid like [that](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PaEBoihjlFwoYHsL2IO2KbrTA-zRJYmRPfQElAGDA-e), but it's not as effective as e-spec. The deadeye's Mark abuse is just so strong in OW. Same for daredevil dodges/combo.

It was about Nylarx.9671's post.

But you won't go very far in pvp if you're already stuck at the very first cc.

Curse is also not that bad for power damage too, as you earn fury and a lot of precision.

With a marauder amulet you're almost always +80% precision against foes with some conditions on them (very easy with shroud and corruptions : bleeding, chill, blind, weakness, vulnerability, etc)

Yeah you lack breakstun and kite. No flash, no ToF, no glyph of EP etc, just a poor 3sec stab on stone stance which doesn't breakstun. Your only panic skills are obsidien flesh and Air #2; no need to say you're dead in most of situations.

Actually Signet of Air is probably the best breakstun of Elem untraited : 25sec cd, a not so bad +25% movement speed, and blindness for 5 foes.

ToF is strong with Woven stride and Cleansing Water ad you can evade and cleanse immobilize for example, but now with the 75sec cd and no stab ...