ZDragon.3046
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Posts posted by ZDragon.3046
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> @"Anchoku.8142" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said:
> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > > > I don't see range as a differentiator here. Why is it a poor choice for ranged/kiting? I works the same way regardless of who is ranged.
> > >
> > > Because it is triggered by being hit, so effective kiting reduces the number of hits, hence number of heals.
> >
> > Just because some one kites does not mean they cant hit you wile doing so ;) there are several professions that often throw chip damage at you while kiting if not center around doing most of their damage while kiting. So i dont agree.
>
> SoV will trigger on any kind of hit, will it not? CC and AoE conditions should trigger it and SoV may very well give a net-positive heal if the "hit" does not have much actual damage.
>
> A cleric bunker build, for example, using Spite, Death Magic, and Blood Magic could have a lot of sustain. It will not be meta due to lack of damage and group support but that should be expected. A Spite/DM/Reaper-tough for open world event chains with lots of mob deaths could be playable, too, using some Signets even if not meta.
hmm i kind of dont agree the signet is countered by condition damage while it will trigger on hits that apply a condition it will not trigger on condition ticks over time. Although if you want interesting you could opt to run a condition build yourself and take parasitic contagion throw some condi's back at your foes and get healing from the signet and your own condition ticks.
You are correct it often does grant positive healing though under some of the current examples and most common examples
- Mesmer clones attacking you for almost no damage
- Warriors throwing ranged attacks at you such as axe toss and greatsword toss (if the blows glance)
- Ranger pets that dont hit particular hard (even more so if they are under weakness
- other necro chip damage such as locust swarm hits
Ideally though it doe work pretty good if it needed any buff it would be with its cast time and mabe its base cooldown just ever so slightly or change to how the active portion works. (its often not so good when you mark a foe and all the stacks get shred through in an instant xD I think maybe in pve there simply should not be a stack limit. If that was the case it might actually be well proper for some sub support.
For a long time i had the idea that the signet should trigger when you hit some one not when they hit you but honestly this signet has healed me so much while i was under stun in shroud or something and saved me so many times from near death that i really dont care to think of it that way anymore. If it did work that way it would likely be as weak as the thief healing signet.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> Honestly, I don't think it's going to get better than it is. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets negative attention because if you know how to you use it and build around it, it's one of the best heals in the game.
I agree with this some one suggested it to me recently and ive been using it for the past 3 week almost its pretty good when built and played around properly. The only instance of when it failed hard with me is against strong condition heavy foes. (which was my fault as i opted for signet of spite over plauge signet in a signet build.) BUT its still pretty darn solid if you know how to make the most of it. Its likely stronger than the base "Blood well heal maybe even stronger than the blood well heal when traited in the instance you dont stand in the well for its full duration.
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> @"Fireline.6093" said:
> Why not remove the internal Cooldown completely and replace it with a proc limit? Start with 10 proc charges and recharge 1 proc every 2 seconds or 1 second while in shroud?
> This would save a Necro from a single burst, but not a multiburst.
The thing is a passive heal should not save you from a burst. Ideally avoiding burst should be an active thing not a passive one. In this case you can dodge the burst or go into shroud to soak the burst which requires activity from the players part.
your idea is not bad but the goal behind it is a bit misplaced. The signet is designed to give you overall more effective health in a combat situation and it does that based on how many hits you take before you use it or while in shroud if traited. It might not seem like much and the hits you take for 2k make the 400 ish heal not seem like much but in combat over 20ish seconds if you only took 10 hits thats effectively 4000 hp that you otherwise would not have had. You just dont see this hp go into your pool because most hits dealt to you are for more than 400 ish hp it restores. It might not seem like much in the moment but assuming you didnt get hit with a 1 shot burst build the signet provides a rather large boost to total effective hp.
And no matter how they buff its signet you wont survive under 1 shot burst situations the damage dealt is simply too high.
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> @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said:
> > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > I don't see range as a differentiator here. Why is it a poor choice for ranged/kiting? I works the same way regardless of who is ranged.
>
> Because it is triggered by being hit, so effective kiting reduces the number of hits, hence number of heals.
Just because some one kites does not mean they cant hit you wile doing so ;) there are several professions that often throw chip damage at you while kiting if not center around doing most of their damage while kiting. So i dont agree.
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> @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > That goes for any heal skill ... if you don't get hit, your need to heal goes down, regardless of what heal you use. In the case where you aren't getting hit, all the heal skills are effectively the same because you don't need healing. Clearly, if we are talking about the effectiveness of heals, we are talking about situations where healing is beneficial.
>
> What he meant was probably that the value of the passive healing of signet of vampirism goes down when there is a need to recover/catch your breath in the middle of a fight. Which is the same flaw as for life siphon effects in general, you need to constantly be aggressive and in combat for them to proc, while a passive healing effect that does not need any trigger will proc regularly without fail.
>
> Taking a step back to avoid the fight for a few second and recover throught passive regen is a very common thing in the game and in this case, signet of vampirism is the worst kind of passive healing.
To be fair this is a general no no for most necro playstyles anyways. Because our cooldowns are often so much higher than other professions you ideally want to close the fight quickly or force you foe to leave you for got or at least to the extent combat resets.
In most cases the longer a fight drags on the less likely a necro is to survive it. Unless you build like the uber heal tank which then wont kill anything and you will still die at some point but i mean :astonished:
Necro really does not have any good passive tools that work positively from taking a short retreat from combat when you think about it. Even shroud is flawed by this its just wasting life force if you do. hmmmmmm... *critical thinking*
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> @"TheAgedGnome.7520" said:
> To quote myself from a similar thread earlier this year:
>
> > For some data....
> >
> > In an OW fight w/3 mobs just now I was passive healed 22 times in a minute by Signet of Vampirism for 555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 = 12,210 hp/min.
> >
> > By contrast, Consume Conditions is 5,674 (+ 767 per condi) with a 30s CD. In this case, SoV is equal or superior to CC. Upside was that this was entirely passive, and I didn't even touch the ~5K active initial heal; downside is it doesn't help with condition removal.
> >
> > In total, for one minute:
> >
> > Signet of Vampirism 555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 = 12,210
> > Vampiric Strikes healed 95 times for 41, so 95 * 41 = 3,895
> > Vampiric Rituals w/Well of Suffering added 20 * 225 = 4,500
> > Life Siphon (Dagger2) 8 * 494 = 3,952
> > Total passive healing for 1 minute: 24,557
> > This is with HP of 325/445 (due to weapons difference - most of fight was at 325).
> > Build:
>
> In this example, SoV was superior Consume Conditions. If the SoV CD was cut in half to 0.5sec then it could be quite OP.
>
> SoV is a good choice for melee-range play, but a poor choice for ranged/kiting play.
>
Its a good choice for anything thats not condition heavy ranged or kite hardly matters.
Thats the only time a signet build kind of gets screwed with necro assuming you are stupid like me and cut plage for spite cause you want ALL THE POWER IN THE WORLD ok but no really the distance game hardly matters
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> @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > @"Nimon.7840" said:
> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:
> > > @"SpellOfIniquity.1780"
> > > Just a copy paste from the other thread:
> > > [https://ibb.co/jTPrCK](https://ibb.co/jTPrCK "https://ibb.co/jTPrCK")
> > >
> > >
> >
> > But the ref that got killed here was full offensive. No def-stats.
> > So it's very unlikely that you get hit by it with 6k.
> > Also it's most of the times very hard to pull of, as good players will just kite the reaper or cc him.
> >
> > With the power creep that is happening nowadays it's pretty stupid to roam around with no armor.
> > You should be somewhere between 2500 and 2700, to get at least some dmg reduction
>
> Ah but this thread is for the love of discussion :) . Such thread allow necromancers to be prepared when faced by haters that died suddenly to a necromancer then take their straw hats and pitch before saying that there is a need to burn the witch (necromancer). Beside, I think I've already seen a thread poping in the PvP forum about something related to this thread, it wasn't long...
Next you will have to make one about Necro signets and how broken they are especially Signet of Spite on a pure power build... man using that active instantly makes you condition and it needs to be nerfed ;D *Wheezing laughter*
Jokes aside that actually happend to me the other day.
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> @"Lonewolf Kai.3682" said:
> > @"Blocki.4931" said:
> > 5 targets 1200 range.. dunno
>
> Let me clarify it. The way it works when pulling people off the walls in WvW.
>
Arching projectiles are just bad for this game generally any arcing projectile with a slow speed is very inaccurate. You would be able to pull people off walls with ease if the projectile was a bit faster in terms of velocity.
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> @"Obtena.7952" said:
> > @"Terror.7128" said:
> > Allow the Signet of Vampirism to proc every 0.5 seconds, instead of every 1 second.
> >
> > Otherwise it is just obviously inferior to the warrior passive heal and can never be any better.
> >
> > It's been this way for far too long, please fix it so it is competitive compared to the warriors.
>
> This doesn't make sense. Not being the best isn't a reason to buff it. It's already quite good as it is, especially if you trait and improve your healing power to make it even better. It's a pretty hard sell to ask to buff the second best passive heal in the game ... just because it's not the first best.
>
> If you consider that average heal ICD is about 20 seconds ... the passive part of the heal can prevent up to 6500 damage in that period and still give you access to pop the active if you need it ... Compared to the other heals we have, that's really good ... and that's not even considering how the active works (it heals and provides leeching) or the impact Signets of Suffering has on it's healing capability. I can't really see a case for this needing the buff you claim it should have; it has tremendous healing capability.
Finally some one who has some understanding on this skill
ITs a useful healing skill just not the most optimal one for alot of situations. but about the only one that fits that bill is the common "Consume conditions" But Vamp sig it does work ive used it just to mess around and its rather nice not saying it cant be better but the ideas most people have for this compare it to warrior signet for what ever reason ill never know.
At best it needs a shorter cast time im not sure changing the cd will really matter considering you only run this if you run SoS trait you cut chunks of time off the cd as is. Realistically its probably more like a 10-15 second cd or less if you manage your shroud well.
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> @"messiah.1908" said:
> in gw2skills the passive state 325 healing while with the trait SOS its state 732 while in game its only 432 ( i think)
>
> wiki doesnt say how much the buff is.
>
> so intended or bug?
>
> with 732 i think its very good
This is about what it heals for when you have a max healing power investment so likely who ever wrote the wiki might have tested the signet build with max healing power.
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> @"Nimon.7840" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > It heals you for more than the warrior heal naturally and scales much harder with healing power. The only trade off is that it requires you to get hit. Ideally it would be nicer every .05 seconds but the heal amount would need to be reduced as well.
> > Keep in mind Scholars are not Soldiers ant further sustain should probably be done via Death magic changes. Not everything needs to be equal to one another even more so when they work under different mechanics.
> >
>
> The problem is, that you have too keep the existing builds in mind, that you could meet when fighting 1v1.
> There is literally no build, that will hit you once every second. Most builds will burst you in 1 second so the signet procs maximum of 2 times (in 2second burst window) which is way too weak as it's only ~600 flat dmg reduction.
Stop its not even a problem really because in your situation it wont matter how much it heals for or how many time it procs in your situation you are still dead because you used a situation in which you got burst in 1 second (likely a 1 shot situation) in any cause the damage you took is massively out scaled by what the signet would have given you back.
Against high damage 1 shot builds say (in a 1v1) it really wont matter what you do in that case your only hope to survive it is to dodge the burst or soak it with shroud / barrier depending on your spec.
The idea behind this signet is to heal you and sustain you through chip damage (when you take weaker hits ie mesmer clone attacks, warriors throwing their gs at you, locust swarm hits form another necro.) The signet gives you more total overall effective health its not going to regenerate your hp back to 100% like warriors can if they avoid enough damage or condition for a period of time. Once again im all for a buff to vamp signet but dont expect it to do what warrior signet does thats just ridiculous.
> Also gearing for healpower isn't worth it as necro has nothing that scales very well with it.
This is only 50% true
Healing power is not wroth the investment on necro no because you dont really need to invest in healing power most of your skill heal decently without it.
Fun fact Well of blood and Vampuric signet actually scale pretty hard with healing power investment but you are correct its often not worth it.
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> @"Crinn.7864" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > It heals you for more than the warrior heal naturally and scales much harder with healing power. The only trade off is that it requires you to get hit. Ideally it would be nicer every .05 seconds but the heal amount would need to be reduced as well.
> > Keep in mind Scholars are not Soldiers ant further sustain should probably be done via Death magic changes. Not everything needs to be equal to one another even more so when they work under different mechanics.
> >
>
> Nope
> Vamp Sig needs both a ICD reduction and a large healing increase in order for it to even be functional as a healing skill, let alone be comparable to Warrior's Healing signet
>
Its a core necromancre skill Just because its a healing signet does not mean it needs to work the same or should even be compared period to warrior signet. IF and only IF it was a reaper thing which is melee focused i could agree that it could be comparable to warrior signet but because this is not the case its just not a good comparison to make.
> You see Vamp Sig only heals when hit, and literally every hit is going to massively outscale the paltry 500 healing of vamp sig. This means that vamp sig is functionally incapable of keeping you alive and is really just the signet of (mildly) delayed dying. Warrior's signet heals constantly even when not being hit, such as when the warrior is blocking, evading, kiting, or endure paining. This means that warrior's heal sig is capable of keeping the warrior alive so long as the warrior is reasonably adept at avoiding hits.
You dont really need to tell me how it works. I know how it works. Even as you point out below 1000 hp at abase its still gonna be massively out scaled against most attacks.
Ideally you are also saying that it should be comparable to warrior means that theif signet should heal just as much for performing attacks ele signet should heal just as much for casting skills. They work under different concepts like the necro signet but dont heal as much as the warrior signet either.
Consider the fact that you are still gaining more total effective health for using the signet period regardless of if its as effective of the warrior signet or not. IT does what its suppose to do. Im not saying it cant get a buff of some sort but dont go about expecting it to be the same as warrior signet thats just ridiculous to only be comparing it to the warrior signet because its the strongest healing signet.
>
> For vamp sig to be useful, the passive needs to get bumped to at least 1k healing baseline, and the active skill needs a combination of a cast time reduction and cooldown reduction
So its to be useful or comparable to warrior healing signet you are mixing me up a bit here. Which one are you really trying to say.
Ideally its useful as is.
*edit*
The only things i agree with really are the reduced cast time and cool down. If its going to heal more it cant be purely at base thats just ridiculous honestly and you have to know that. Its going to have to be at some kind of cost if anything more sustain shouldnt be looked at only in the signet. Keep in mind warrior signet alone is not the strongest thing ever alot of health comes from aderinal health too and necro does not have a traitline that does what defense does for warrior effectively. If you want more sustain to... "Keep you alive" then we need to be looking to death magic to do it.
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It heals you for more than the warrior heal naturally and scales much harder with healing power. The only trade off is that it requires you to get hit. Ideally it would be nicer every .05 seconds but the heal amount would need to be reduced as well.
Keep in mind Scholars are not Soldiers ant further sustain should probably be done via Death magic changes. Not everything needs to be equal to one another even more so when they work under different mechanics.
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A few things to note.
Your vuln application is very low, i suggest you do the following things if you dont want an exact meta copy
- In group events specifically
- I would drop **decimate defenses** for the **soul eater** great sword trait in reaper. (more damage with your gs skills by being able to use the more often also nets you some life force and hp back over time.)
- Drop **Unyelding blast** for **speed of shadows** (You will have swiftness to run around and in the event you get a mass of cripple or immoble you can clear it with a quick shroud flash)
My reasoning for these 2 main changes in group events is that the 25 vuln stacks will be there for you, in shroud without Decimate defenses you will be sitting at 80% crit chance with the fury spam going around you you will be at 100% in shroud and 60%ish out of it which is not too bad.
You dont need to do boon ripping with this build mesmers and spellbreakers other necros will generally rip the boons before you do anyways. You are not condition so its better to let another necro that might be condition eat those few boons pve foes generate.
- Drop **spiteful spirit** for **close to death** its a free 20% and spiteful will in no way make up for it.
- Drop **spectral mastery** for **vital persistence** its extra reduced cd to shroud skills to stack with your **reapers onslaught** trait.
- Drop **well of corruption** for **well of suffering** more damage ads some vuln for solo moments when you need it and generally deals more damage all on a lower cd
**Lastly your gear.**
You cant make much of the condition damage you have slotted you have no condition weapons equipped and no real condition traits equipped I suggest Mara gear for armor and and using valk stats for your weapons. This nets you close to the same critical chance as the build you made while offering you higher crit damage potential with some extra health at no real loss to your damage.
**spectral grasp** is situational but for the sake of fun and chill theme of your build you can keep it for quick life force burst when you need it. or want to pull all foes into one nice spot. You dont need spectral mastery for this as you wont have moments where you will want use it that often (keep in mind your gs has a pull skill too)
Ive wrapped all this up with a link to see the changes.
EDIT
You can also take **awaken the pain** over chill of death but because this is a chill theme you are going for i left it alone cheers :)
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I think the trait has its uses
I think its burst potential is low enough not to really matter with the current changes that are going on.
Its got a reasonable cooldown and the damage is controlled by the number of boons on a foe after which it only deals damage once you strike them at 50% or lower. There is a lot going on here to achieve its max potential and simply for that reason I think its fine as is even heading into the future.
Chill of Death It will always be a good pvp pick going against professions like guardian, thief, elementalist, etc things with low hp values that will often get executed if you manage to get a good critical chill of death on them at 50% or lower.
Against many professions though it wont execute them due to life saving passives or having sheerly higher hp Warrior, Ranger, other necromancers etc.
In pve it will always be trumped by the current **"Awaken the pain"** Even **"Dread"** offers more potential in theory when it comes to this side of the game.
Although you pointing out that its not lesser is just lack of quality then again there are some other professions that have traits similarly that are objectively "not lesser" as well but trigger under specific conditions such as heal...etc. In necros case its hitting a foe under 50%. Not having a tell is not a really big deal either there would not even be a way to properly incorporate this without making it flat out clunky not to mention other skills/bonuses that trigger on hit passively would need to undergo the same treatment as they also have no tell. If it was good against everything i could maybe start to see a balance issue but because its not i think its fine as is because its something you still have to work for.
I dont specifically want **"chill of death"** to change but at the same time i don't feel like its going to get any better or worse if it does not change. Its a solid trait that likely needs no real balancing at all its one of the few spite traits thats always been pretty solid.
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If you play long enough you really can feel about when your signets would be off cooldown Keep in mind that each passing second is 4% of the total cooldown time cut but during that its still recharging by 1 second as well.
In most cases if you are not flashing shroud then they will be off cd by the time you exit or nearly off cd. Sadly signets are not that strong but they make for a fun build to play with every now and again.
Ive been running Sig's of suffering a good bit lately and I just guess and 80% of the time im right or nearly right. You kind of get a feel for these things as you play.
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Im sure the minion swap thing was not a intended feature of necromancer to start with so there is no point in complaining about it. Just go kill some weak AI mobs and build lf along the way as you do stuff its not really a massive deal. IF zerging you will have lf anyways if roaming then you can kill weak trash for LF. In spvp you start with 0 lf anyways. in PvE you will have lf within the first few seconds of combat cause of weapon skills.
Realistically its not really a nerf or bad change its more clean up than anything.
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > People need not to facetank it, that's true.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > But you gotta admit do big damage in reaper is the most brainless thing to do, literally every single you pop hit for over 7k, even reaper autos can hit up to 10k crit.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Every single skill in reaper is worth a dodge, a block, an evade, and perma chill weakness and cripple used by a power profession are crazy strong conditions at you disposal.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Especially when you enter reaper mode, it has no animation tells and it's instant and gotta use instinct to avoid it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not overpowered by any mean, but being a pug noob stomper is literally abused by everyone, even mediocre players being immediately champions with it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't need to be a pro to land 10k reaper autos, at least have the honesty to admit that.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And watch out, I am not calling for nerfs or call the class OP.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > But yeah it's just like dragonhunter when it was released, easy mode pug stomper build.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > you say braindead, but which class is not completely braindead? perma invul spellbreaker? yolosmith? or pewpew from 2k range with 10k AA soulbeast? or perma invis DE? i mean what is your point?
> > > > > > > > > > > > there is absolutely no class you Need skill to Stomp noobs. and besides, as reaper you Need a lot of skill to not insta die. most necros Need great map awareness using ridges and other stuff to avoid enemies bombs. i hva enever seen that by any warrior (only Standing in 5 enemies and dont getting any dmg, GG), and great class Knowledge. you cant yolopush on reaper because you would only hit in invuls while being terminated by everything. you Need to know how many Sustain skills, dodges, teleports every enemy has to know when the Moment has come to go in.
> > > > > > > > > > > > most necros heavily changing builds in every fight depending on which enemies they are Fighting. but classes like warrior run sicne 6 years the same build against every build. as necro you would never Play greatsword against an deadeye, cause you will never hit a good one with it. so you Play range (axe/stuff). on the other side you would never use staff against Warriors, there you use GS. for every enemy you Need other weapons, utilities, traits. i have never to do that on any other classes. so necro is the least braindead class in this game.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Revenant actually is the only class with oneshot burst potential which requires being and thinking fast, requires timing, good energy management or you are screwed, one mistake and you usually die. First week playing rev you will be 90% of the times on downed state constantly before getting results if you never played it before.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I dunno why you attack warrior like that, I am not a warrior main and I agree it's a simple braindead easy mode profession, same as noobeast.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But same as reaper too.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You can and destroy a spellbreaker or warrior and even an holosmith (necro counters engi) as a reaper without problems.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Necro since beta was and is the NOOB friendly pick class of everyone jumping into the game, identical as warrior.
> > > > > > > > > > > Press few buttons for perma chills and high bombs damage is easy and braindead mode sorry.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Of course ranged pressure counters necro a lot, everyone has an hard counter, but this doesn't make the class less braindead.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As a test I tried not to dodge elite necro skill Chilled to the bone.
> > > > > > > > > > > This guy with 5 minutes of gameplay on reaper, after landing elite immediately entered shroud, i was cripple chilled and with weakness, landed 2 skills I was already 10% health.
> > > > > > > > > > > I escaped a bit, he turned off shroud, axe2 at 900 range, I was dead. 22k hp in about 2-3 seconds of fight. I know my mistakes for not dodging.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This to explain how every single skill in reaper is worth dodging, and that's why even a noob can be a champion with it immediately.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Again I repeat I am not calling for nerfs or calling it OP, but it's just another noob friendly braindead spec same as noobreaker, noobeast, noobeye, scourge etc.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > From what I see everyone just run greatsword + axe/wh, I don't see that crazy build switching you are talking to.
> > > > > > > > > > > It's just the usually build since reaper was released, now it shines because of the recent quickness rework, but nothing new under the sun.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Almost anyone can do nothing against deadeye, so you run gs anyway, deadeye is your hard counter anyway, you don't have much options.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1.) Revenant has with Shiro, stuff and Sword a huge amount of dodges, and while you are dodging you are attacking your Opponent. so where does it require skill? herald has great mobilty, burst and survivability. you can use glint heal if you are under pessure and getting full life again, so no way to insta die on rev.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2.) i dont know what you were testing there, but not dodging necro elite skill that has huge telling is not a test, its like you are telling me "i tested not dodging a mesmer shatter, i died instantly." sry, but not dodging enemies attacks kills you? no wonder…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3.)you Need a lot of skill to managing your lifeforce on necro cause you only have 1 good skill for that and thats spectral armor. besides that you have to land A LOT of weapon skills until you get a serious amount of lifeforce from weapon skills against nearly perma invul enemies, good luck with that.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 4.) if you are just ONE TIME out of Position ur dead as necro/reaper. how many mistakes can a Mirage have until he get punished? 10 times? everytime you stun that class or attacking it it spamms their invulns. spiking a warrior as reaper JUST by Pressing f1 and 4 and it will proc Auto invul while the warrior Massacres you with his greatsword and full counter while you cannot Pressing anything while casting RS4. and in WHICH world does necro counter engi/holo? holo is perma CC ing you while reaper has nearly no Access to stabi. reaper elite for stabi? oh sry just 600 range. holo already stunns you with rifle from 1200 range, also with his elite he stunns you. while you are stunned he leaps to you continue to stunn you with forged form. if you go to shroud he leaps away from you. i have never seen a warrior that cant get heales while endure pain or loosing 1k life per second for using endure pain like reaper in shroud. i have never seen a reaper that is low life and healing full life in just a few seconds like FB, engi, ele… sry but you are just Focusing on the ONE Thing necro has, its dmg. but how much skill you Need to stay alive on a class without invuls, blocks, dodges until the end of world, and invis you ignore.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The Definition of overpowered mechanics are mechanics that dont have a counter. but anything the necro does can at least get countered by invulns,dodges,range and mobilty. and EVERY other class has Access to those mechanics.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > in all discussions i just see people have two measures. 1 for necro that is not allowed to do anything.
> > > > > > > > > > and 1 for every other classes.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > just remember how much People complained About "out of nowhere burst from scourge" so anet implemented the red circles.
> > > > > > > > > > but out of nowhere burst on thief and Mirage are fine…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > like i said in another thread, if you want to discuss About balancing you have to see the WHOLE Performance of a class. and there is reaper still minor to warrior, thief, mesmer, guard,ranger, holo….because no other class has so huge tellings for their skills, low mobility, low Access to stability, no heal and no Sustain. other classes hit like reaper but with 10 times more survivability.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You know glint heal is one of the most easy to counter heals?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you spam your skills and fully heal the enemy rev that's a l2p issue.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's funny that you mention the l2p issue. Cause every time necro is stronger, everyone complains about it but nobody actually want to l2p against necro, with his 3 big weaknesses. Instead everyone is crying and necro gets nerfed.
> > > > > > > > But as soon as it comes to another class it's a l2p issue? That really doesn't seem right. Trait every class the same, then it's ok. (This isn't something against you, but against a lot of people out there)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Difference is, with rev any skill you use must be timed right or one mistake and you die.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Try it yourself.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > With necro you can afford many many mistakes same as warrior and still get away with it and win.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Revenant always was the class who attracted people who wanted a skill level to play it at hos max.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Necro warrior ranger are the easy pick of starters because they are easy mode braindead professions.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I do admit, necro is an easy starter class. Especially reaper. Reaper murders anyone, that
> > > > > > > > 1) never played necro himself and learned about the weaknesses
> > > > > > > > 2)that doesn't know his own class or build and how to use it
> > > > > > > > 3)that doesn't know what kiting and cc is
> > > > > > > > 4) that doesn't know how to dodge
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now that I think about it. There's a lot of such players...
> > > > > > > > But if you go into better skilled players, you will always see necro loose. Or at least 80% of the times.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good sustain? No
> > > > > > > > Good mobility? No
> > > > > > > > Good amount of stability? No
> > > > > > > > Good amount of defense? No
> > > > > > > > It's only good in 0-900 range and then it's freaking weak.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And still, if you try to kill someone with autoinvuln, they will laugh , let themselves get hit and then burst you back.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But necro only has very little access to defense. The only good defense it has is shroud, but it's also the burst, offensive option. So if you use it as defense, most of the times you loose your ability to pressure enemy's back, as many builds easily just hit you so hard in shroud, that you will quickly drop out of shroud.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now some people might argue: but I always see players like hollts demolishing groups of people.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Last week I saw one of those videos. The reaper walked into a supply camp, killing 3-4 people, that tried to take the camp for their server.
> > > > > > > > But you have to see, that those 3-4 people, didn't even try to kill the reaper, they just did their spawn-camp. And most of these people, trying to get their spawn-camp back, are pve people trying to get a gift of battle. So not very good people.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't want to say, that hollts or other known players are bad. By far not. They just show things, that most people want to see.
> > > > > > > > I'd do the same if I would make new videos. Cause that's what brings the clicks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Me as a necro main, I would love to see 1v1s against very good other players, even if this results in a video with more losses than wins.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did i asked for nerfs? Seems i have to repeat myself all the times.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All i said is reaper is a noob friendly brainless easy to get into profession.
> > > > > > > And same as his brother scourge, in a gamemode like pvp where you win by controlling caps, with easy mode spammable aoes, one condi one power, over the cap points, they shines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No you got that backwards
> > > > > > In PvE necro in general can be pretty brainless to play and easy to pick up on because its survivability is much higher than most professions
> > > > > > in PvP this flips to having some of the worst survivability
> > > > > > - no free vigor trait like the other light armor professions have
> > > > > > - no super speed like the other light armor professiosn have
> > > > > > - no instant blinks to disengage or engage
> > > > > > - not able to handle relentless cc chains very well
> > > > > > - sustain is limited by shroud which can be burst through
> > > > > > - Generally has soft / passive defensive tools (shroud) and limited in active defensive tools (Which makes it easy in pve btw if you didnt know)
> > > > > > - is doomed to be focused before all other professions because of its team pressure potential
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In short necro does not get 3 and 4 chances in most cases like other professions do. Other professions often have better burst, active defensive tools, and mobility.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No I can't treat the profession all the same like you say because they are not all the same, warrior and necro are so easy to pick and become good at them in few time, rev for example takes a lot longer, it's called class diversity and skill cap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Allow me to correct you. Ive put most of my hour into necro ill have you know that warrior plays the opposite of necro in my mind and its by far the hardest profession for me to pick up and play. Warrior is said to be EZ but despite what people say i struggle with it. I personally think warrior is rather hard to play as well in all gamemodes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That said there are things that warrior can do to make it easier such as double stances and spell breaker in the right situations most professions will have hard time killing you even if you have hard time playing the profession itself. (based on my experience)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's the same as those oneshot mesmers who mastered the oneshot burst over and over, they are not necessarily skilled players, they just mastered the oneshot burst, but they are still able to kill you regardless they have probably half of your skill.
> > > > > > > Scourge and reaper confirm this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This statement really makes no sense to me at all. "Scourge and reaper confirm what?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In spvp especially as necro most of the times you jump into the middle point spamming everything you have, not caring about the enemy having stability, resistance or anything and you see them melt by your condis or by your crazy high damage output without much effort.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No what ever necros you have been watching are the ones that usually go down instantly or they are scourges who are use to the bugged scourge and not aware of the changes that have been made. If reaper jumps into a fight and soul spirals and you eat the whole thing then maybe you are the one lacking some skill. If scourge almost nothing scourge has right now will deal tons of damage with the exception of the elite and if you stand in that too then well..... lack of skill. I dont know what you play but ive see necros do what you speak of and in most cases it does not work out very well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And when you perma cripple chill and weakness your enemy it's not that easy for him to immediately kite away from you since you move like a slow motion turtle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Conditions are apart of necros only sustain. Chill and cripple use to be 100% more effective when they reduced movement skills too you know. That change hurt necro very badly in terms of its sustain and chase potential.
> > > > > > Generally under most builds its not going to be perma chill or weakness, perma cripple is a thing yes but thats because cripple is such a common condition now.
> > > > > > Chill has been reduced appropriately if you are getting perma chilled you are doing something wrong.
> > > > > > Perma weakness... lets have a talk about this one. Part of the perma weakness you might see from time to time comes from the fact that you might be swamping yourself in might consistently. Necro is the counter to the current meta that is boon drowning yourself. Untill anet cull boons appropriately like they did with conditions you will have this happen from time to time. Its not specifically the necros fault.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lastly WHY DONT YOU HAVE CONDITION CLEAR IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN SPVP >:C
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just look at scourge, it got "nerfed" every single patch from when released until now and it's still in the meta still dishing out cancerous condi spam that kills you in few seconds if you get caught unready, this shows how kitten is the concept of that profession.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ive already gone through this at best only 3 things can really kill you from scourge
> > > > > > 1 You stood in the elite for far too long because you got tunnel visioned aka you made a bad play and got punished for it but wont admit it
> > > > > > 2 You stood in desert shroud and just face tanked it because you thought you should automatically win once again bad play
> > > > > > 3 You were swimming in boons and the scourge chose to make the right play by slapping you with scepter 3 or corrupt boon (As they should) and you kind of got screwed by your own boons. This is not really bad play but its not your fault that the scourge made the sensible choice and got rewarded for it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Scourge shades when desert shroud is not active are pretty harmless now they simply dont do enough to instantly melt you the only exception being is if they get a few lucky boon converts on hit. But as stated thats not really their fault that you were downed in boons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally i don't find pve reaper brainless at all.You too sound a bit like a hater.I mean like every other class i got to switch tools to be efficient, and for pve, especially fractals, i have to change to wells to survive.
> > > >
> > > > I main reaper and have played other professions in pve and pvp
> > > > Compared to all of them necro is by far the easiest to survive with in pve thats not even an argument that thats just honesty. I dont hate necro in general cause its my fav and most played profession (about 5k hours of my total 7k play time)
> > > >
> > > > That said even if you have to change to wells to survive other professions dont have that option infact most other professions will get 1 shot when you wont be. The exceptions being warrior who also has natural high vitality.
> > > >
> > > > Please take my take my "brainless" term with a grain of salt. Ive played necro for so long that for me in pve it really takes no thought to play so for me in most of the general content it is brainless due to the sheer amount of time ive put into it. Where as other professions require me to focus rather hard. I know i can eat hits on necro like a boss and be just fine where as other professions will often be 1 shot by those same hits.
> > >
> > > How much do you wanna bet i could do tier 2 and 3 with tempest? yes they are squishy but they make up for it in mobility.Yes they die easy if hit but having protect spell on earth makes them pretty good at survival.
> > Whoa hang on man lol....
> > Im not going to bet you anything I never said it was not impossible to use other professions and survive but generally speaking necro can survive without having to do any special or heavy prep to make it through as you would have to do with tempest Necro does not need to do this to take those same hits and be ok in most situations. In pve Necro is very flexible and can get away with alot of things other professions generally cannot without having to build specifically for those things
> >
> > My point is that its generally easier (especially for newer/average/majority players) to survive with necro not to say that other professions cannot survive the same content.
> >
> > >
> > > Maybe i'm just getting really used to tempest and ele, but i don't find it as hard anymore.
> >
> > If you use anything long enough it will generally become second nature to you so long as you continue to use it :) but try to think from a limited play time / new player perspective. The majority wont play to master they will play to play. Yes most humans by nature are at some level competitive but not everyone is pushing hard to be at the top.
> >
> > Generally most people will find necro easier. IT is really by some dumb luck, most likely, a new player friendly profession in pve i doubt the devs wanted to specifically make it that way but it is that way by its design. That does not mean it shouldn't have good things available to it either as some people will point out however most people seem to think because it is so low level play friendly that it shouldn't have good things.
> >
> > The problem is people who love to play necro can easily feel hurt when you tell them the one profession they love to play (not because its easier in pve or has simply damage combos) should not have good things because its a noob profession and then the balance team follows this up by culling necro stuff and the main reason is because a mass of players felt that "You shouldnt have it because its a noob profession." Rarely is something out right op on necro in most cases if it was really op on necro it was a bug (Bugged scourge) or lately discovered through some form random of coordination (Epidemic bounce) which i still think personally was handled incorrectly despite me not even being a major user of the skill myself
> >
> > Another likely situation is that people feel that that the necro profession should not be beating them or is performing close to the same level of damage when spent possibly more time mastering a different profession or current profession of choice.
> >
>
> I wasn't trying to be rude, its just that with reaper shroud i think that in its current state with low duration, its not that much tankier than a tempest, except tempest has slighly more mobility, and reaper has more health slightly.Besides:The aftershock combo+ protection is 50% damage reduction.
Yes its lower than core but also deals far superior damage to core. Even practically it has more mobility than core. The reduced overall duration is sad but it works out so to speak. in all honestly if core took a shroud duration cut in exchange for some major boost to its shroud skills i might be happy with that too core is depressingly weak compared to it specs and i only play it for the visual flavor at this point or when i want to experiment.
Ideally Core Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer, Ranger (especially) are very strong
Core thief could be better but its not bad its over shadowed by its e specs its still solid enough to support its especs though.
Core engi is getting better it could be alot better but its slowly getting there not sure if it ever will be up there with the others but its not so bad
Core necro is shaky it was good but fell behind due to limitations in its design. Reaper house on a crippled foundation and scourge is basically its own profession all in 1 traitline
Core Rev is very bad because of how it was designed . Some people do play it cause rev can be a fun profession. People consider a lot of its traitlines too situational which make it shaky. The old version of herald was like reaper a house on bad foundation. I dont even really see as many revs sense the update for herald so i dont know whats going on there. Renegade could be like scourge (its own profession in 1 traitline) if they considered having the utility boosted to be stronger and more reliable
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:
> > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > People need not to facetank it, that's true.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But you gotta admit do big damage in reaper is the most brainless thing to do, literally every single you pop hit for over 7k, even reaper autos can hit up to 10k crit.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Every single skill in reaper is worth a dodge, a block, an evade, and perma chill weakness and cripple used by a power profession are crazy strong conditions at you disposal.
> > > > > > > > > > > Especially when you enter reaper mode, it has no animation tells and it's instant and gotta use instinct to avoid it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It is not overpowered by any mean, but being a pug noob stomper is literally abused by everyone, even mediocre players being immediately champions with it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You don't need to be a pro to land 10k reaper autos, at least have the honesty to admit that.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And watch out, I am not calling for nerfs or call the class OP.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But yeah it's just like dragonhunter when it was released, easy mode pug stomper build.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > you say braindead, but which class is not completely braindead? perma invul spellbreaker? yolosmith? or pewpew from 2k range with 10k AA soulbeast? or perma invis DE? i mean what is your point?
> > > > > > > > > > there is absolutely no class you Need skill to Stomp noobs. and besides, as reaper you Need a lot of skill to not insta die. most necros Need great map awareness using ridges and other stuff to avoid enemies bombs. i hva enever seen that by any warrior (only Standing in 5 enemies and dont getting any dmg, GG), and great class Knowledge. you cant yolopush on reaper because you would only hit in invuls while being terminated by everything. you Need to know how many Sustain skills, dodges, teleports every enemy has to know when the Moment has come to go in.
> > > > > > > > > > most necros heavily changing builds in every fight depending on which enemies they are Fighting. but classes like warrior run sicne 6 years the same build against every build. as necro you would never Play greatsword against an deadeye, cause you will never hit a good one with it. so you Play range (axe/stuff). on the other side you would never use staff against Warriors, there you use GS. for every enemy you Need other weapons, utilities, traits. i have never to do that on any other classes. so necro is the least braindead class in this game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Revenant actually is the only class with oneshot burst potential which requires being and thinking fast, requires timing, good energy management or you are screwed, one mistake and you usually die. First week playing rev you will be 90% of the times on downed state constantly before getting results if you never played it before.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I dunno why you attack warrior like that, I am not a warrior main and I agree it's a simple braindead easy mode profession, same as noobeast.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But same as reaper too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You can and destroy a spellbreaker or warrior and even an holosmith (necro counters engi) as a reaper without problems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Necro since beta was and is the NOOB friendly pick class of everyone jumping into the game, identical as warrior.
> > > > > > > > > Press few buttons for perma chills and high bombs damage is easy and braindead mode sorry.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Of course ranged pressure counters necro a lot, everyone has an hard counter, but this doesn't make the class less braindead.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As a test I tried not to dodge elite necro skill Chilled to the bone.
> > > > > > > > > This guy with 5 minutes of gameplay on reaper, after landing elite immediately entered shroud, i was cripple chilled and with weakness, landed 2 skills I was already 10% health.
> > > > > > > > > I escaped a bit, he turned off shroud, axe2 at 900 range, I was dead. 22k hp in about 2-3 seconds of fight. I know my mistakes for not dodging.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This to explain how every single skill in reaper is worth dodging, and that's why even a noob can be a champion with it immediately.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Again I repeat I am not calling for nerfs or calling it OP, but it's just another noob friendly braindead spec same as noobreaker, noobeast, noobeye, scourge etc.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From what I see everyone just run greatsword + axe/wh, I don't see that crazy build switching you are talking to.
> > > > > > > > > It's just the usually build since reaper was released, now it shines because of the recent quickness rework, but nothing new under the sun.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Almost anyone can do nothing against deadeye, so you run gs anyway, deadeye is your hard counter anyway, you don't have much options.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1.) Revenant has with Shiro, stuff and Sword a huge amount of dodges, and while you are dodging you are attacking your Opponent. so where does it require skill? herald has great mobilty, burst and survivability. you can use glint heal if you are under pessure and getting full life again, so no way to insta die on rev.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2.) i dont know what you were testing there, but not dodging necro elite skill that has huge telling is not a test, its like you are telling me "i tested not dodging a mesmer shatter, i died instantly." sry, but not dodging enemies attacks kills you? no wonder…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3.)you Need a lot of skill to managing your lifeforce on necro cause you only have 1 good skill for that and thats spectral armor. besides that you have to land A LOT of weapon skills until you get a serious amount of lifeforce from weapon skills against nearly perma invul enemies, good luck with that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 4.) if you are just ONE TIME out of Position ur dead as necro/reaper. how many mistakes can a Mirage have until he get punished? 10 times? everytime you stun that class or attacking it it spamms their invulns. spiking a warrior as reaper JUST by Pressing f1 and 4 and it will proc Auto invul while the warrior Massacres you with his greatsword and full counter while you cannot Pressing anything while casting RS4. and in WHICH world does necro counter engi/holo? holo is perma CC ing you while reaper has nearly no Access to stabi. reaper elite for stabi? oh sry just 600 range. holo already stunns you with rifle from 1200 range, also with his elite he stunns you. while you are stunned he leaps to you continue to stunn you with forged form. if you go to shroud he leaps away from you. i have never seen a warrior that cant get heales while endure pain or loosing 1k life per second for using endure pain like reaper in shroud. i have never seen a reaper that is low life and healing full life in just a few seconds like FB, engi, ele… sry but you are just Focusing on the ONE Thing necro has, its dmg. but how much skill you Need to stay alive on a class without invuls, blocks, dodges until the end of world, and invis you ignore.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Definition of overpowered mechanics are mechanics that dont have a counter. but anything the necro does can at least get countered by invulns,dodges,range and mobilty. and EVERY other class has Access to those mechanics.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > in all discussions i just see people have two measures. 1 for necro that is not allowed to do anything.
> > > > > > > > and 1 for every other classes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > just remember how much People complained About "out of nowhere burst from scourge" so anet implemented the red circles.
> > > > > > > > but out of nowhere burst on thief and Mirage are fine…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > like i said in another thread, if you want to discuss About balancing you have to see the WHOLE Performance of a class. and there is reaper still minor to warrior, thief, mesmer, guard,ranger, holo….because no other class has so huge tellings for their skills, low mobility, low Access to stability, no heal and no Sustain. other classes hit like reaper but with 10 times more survivability.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You know glint heal is one of the most easy to counter heals?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you spam your skills and fully heal the enemy rev that's a l2p issue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's funny that you mention the l2p issue. Cause every time necro is stronger, everyone complains about it but nobody actually want to l2p against necro, with his 3 big weaknesses. Instead everyone is crying and necro gets nerfed.
> > > > > > But as soon as it comes to another class it's a l2p issue? That really doesn't seem right. Trait every class the same, then it's ok. (This isn't something against you, but against a lot of people out there)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Difference is, with rev any skill you use must be timed right or one mistake and you die.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Try it yourself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With necro you can afford many many mistakes same as warrior and still get away with it and win.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Revenant always was the class who attracted people who wanted a skill level to play it at hos max.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Necro warrior ranger are the easy pick of starters because they are easy mode braindead professions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I do admit, necro is an easy starter class. Especially reaper. Reaper murders anyone, that
> > > > > > 1) never played necro himself and learned about the weaknesses
> > > > > > 2)that doesn't know his own class or build and how to use it
> > > > > > 3)that doesn't know what kiting and cc is
> > > > > > 4) that doesn't know how to dodge
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now that I think about it. There's a lot of such players...
> > > > > > But if you go into better skilled players, you will always see necro loose. Or at least 80% of the times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good sustain? No
> > > > > > Good mobility? No
> > > > > > Good amount of stability? No
> > > > > > Good amount of defense? No
> > > > > > It's only good in 0-900 range and then it's freaking weak.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And still, if you try to kill someone with autoinvuln, they will laugh , let themselves get hit and then burst you back.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But necro only has very little access to defense. The only good defense it has is shroud, but it's also the burst, offensive option. So if you use it as defense, most of the times you loose your ability to pressure enemy's back, as many builds easily just hit you so hard in shroud, that you will quickly drop out of shroud.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now some people might argue: but I always see players like hollts demolishing groups of people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Last week I saw one of those videos. The reaper walked into a supply camp, killing 3-4 people, that tried to take the camp for their server.
> > > > > > But you have to see, that those 3-4 people, didn't even try to kill the reaper, they just did their spawn-camp. And most of these people, trying to get their spawn-camp back, are pve people trying to get a gift of battle. So not very good people.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't want to say, that hollts or other known players are bad. By far not. They just show things, that most people want to see.
> > > > > > I'd do the same if I would make new videos. Cause that's what brings the clicks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Me as a necro main, I would love to see 1v1s against very good other players, even if this results in a video with more losses than wins.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did i asked for nerfs? Seems i have to repeat myself all the times.
> > > > >
> > > > > All i said is reaper is a noob friendly brainless easy to get into profession.
> > > > > And same as his brother scourge, in a gamemode like pvp where you win by controlling caps, with easy mode spammable aoes, one condi one power, over the cap points, they shines.
> > > >
> > > > No you got that backwards
> > > > In PvE necro in general can be pretty brainless to play and easy to pick up on because its survivability is much higher than most professions
> > > > in PvP this flips to having some of the worst survivability
> > > > - no free vigor trait like the other light armor professions have
> > > > - no super speed like the other light armor professiosn have
> > > > - no instant blinks to disengage or engage
> > > > - not able to handle relentless cc chains very well
> > > > - sustain is limited by shroud which can be burst through
> > > > - Generally has soft / passive defensive tools (shroud) and limited in active defensive tools (Which makes it easy in pve btw if you didnt know)
> > > > - is doomed to be focused before all other professions because of its team pressure potential
> > > >
> > > > In short necro does not get 3 and 4 chances in most cases like other professions do. Other professions often have better burst, active defensive tools, and mobility.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No I can't treat the profession all the same like you say because they are not all the same, warrior and necro are so easy to pick and become good at them in few time, rev for example takes a lot longer, it's called class diversity and skill cap.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Allow me to correct you. Ive put most of my hour into necro ill have you know that warrior plays the opposite of necro in my mind and its by far the hardest profession for me to pick up and play. Warrior is said to be EZ but despite what people say i struggle with it. I personally think warrior is rather hard to play as well in all gamemodes.
> > > >
> > > > That said there are things that warrior can do to make it easier such as double stances and spell breaker in the right situations most professions will have hard time killing you even if you have hard time playing the profession itself. (based on my experience)
> > > >
> > > > > It's the same as those oneshot mesmers who mastered the oneshot burst over and over, they are not necessarily skilled players, they just mastered the oneshot burst, but they are still able to kill you regardless they have probably half of your skill.
> > > > > Scourge and reaper confirm this.
> > > >
> > > > This statement really makes no sense to me at all. "Scourge and reaper confirm what?"
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In spvp especially as necro most of the times you jump into the middle point spamming everything you have, not caring about the enemy having stability, resistance or anything and you see them melt by your condis or by your crazy high damage output without much effort.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No what ever necros you have been watching are the ones that usually go down instantly or they are scourges who are use to the bugged scourge and not aware of the changes that have been made. If reaper jumps into a fight and soul spirals and you eat the whole thing then maybe you are the one lacking some skill. If scourge almost nothing scourge has right now will deal tons of damage with the exception of the elite and if you stand in that too then well..... lack of skill. I dont know what you play but ive see necros do what you speak of and in most cases it does not work out very well.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And when you perma cripple chill and weakness your enemy it's not that easy for him to immediately kite away from you since you move like a slow motion turtle.
> > > >
> > > > Conditions are apart of necros only sustain. Chill and cripple use to be 100% more effective when they reduced movement skills too you know. That change hurt necro very badly in terms of its sustain and chase potential.
> > > > Generally under most builds its not going to be perma chill or weakness, perma cripple is a thing yes but thats because cripple is such a common condition now.
> > > > Chill has been reduced appropriately if you are getting perma chilled you are doing something wrong.
> > > > Perma weakness... lets have a talk about this one. Part of the perma weakness you might see from time to time comes from the fact that you might be swamping yourself in might consistently. Necro is the counter to the current meta that is boon drowning yourself. Untill anet cull boons appropriately like they did with conditions you will have this happen from time to time. Its not specifically the necros fault.
> > > >
> > > > Lastly WHY DONT YOU HAVE CONDITION CLEAR IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN SPVP >:C
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just look at scourge, it got "nerfed" every single patch from when released until now and it's still in the meta still dishing out cancerous condi spam that kills you in few seconds if you get caught unready, this shows how kitten is the concept of that profession.
> > > >
> > > > Ive already gone through this at best only 3 things can really kill you from scourge
> > > > 1 You stood in the elite for far too long because you got tunnel visioned aka you made a bad play and got punished for it but wont admit it
> > > > 2 You stood in desert shroud and just face tanked it because you thought you should automatically win once again bad play
> > > > 3 You were swimming in boons and the scourge chose to make the right play by slapping you with scepter 3 or corrupt boon (As they should) and you kind of got screwed by your own boons. This is not really bad play but its not your fault that the scourge made the sensible choice and got rewarded for it.
> > > >
> > > > Scourge shades when desert shroud is not active are pretty harmless now they simply dont do enough to instantly melt you the only exception being is if they get a few lucky boon converts on hit. But as stated thats not really their fault that you were downed in boons.
> > >
> > > Personally i don't find pve reaper brainless at all.You too sound a bit like a hater.I mean like every other class i got to switch tools to be efficient, and for pve, especially fractals, i have to change to wells to survive.
> >
> > I main reaper and have played other professions in pve and pvp
> > Compared to all of them necro is by far the easiest to survive with in pve thats not even an argument that thats just honesty. I dont hate necro in general cause its my fav and most played profession (about 5k hours of my total 7k play time)
> >
> > That said even if you have to change to wells to survive other professions dont have that option infact most other professions will get 1 shot when you wont be. The exceptions being warrior who also has natural high vitality.
> >
> > Please take my take my "brainless" term with a grain of salt. Ive played necro for so long that for me in pve it really takes no thought to play so for me in most of the general content it is brainless due to the sheer amount of time ive put into it. Where as other professions require me to focus rather hard. I know i can eat hits on necro like a boss and be just fine where as other professions will often be 1 shot by those same hits.
>
> How much do you wanna bet i could do tier 2 and 3 with tempest? yes they are squishy but they make up for it in mobility.Yes they die easy if hit but having protect spell on earth makes them pretty good at survival.
Whoa hang on man lol....
Im not going to bet you anything I never said it was not impossible to use other professions and survive but generally speaking necro can survive without having to do any special or heavy prep to make it through as you would have to do with tempest Necro does not need to do this to take those same hits and be ok in most situations. In pve Necro is very flexible and can get away with alot of things other professions generally cannot without having to build specifically for those things
My point is that its generally easier (especially for newer/average/majority players) to survive with necro not to say that other professions cannot survive the same content.
>
> Maybe i'm just getting really used to tempest and ele, but i don't find it as hard anymore.
If you use anything long enough it will generally become second nature to you so long as you continue to use it :) but try to think from a limited play time / new player perspective. The majority wont play to master they will play to play. Yes most humans by nature are at some level competitive but not everyone is pushing hard to be at the top.
Generally most people will find necro easier. IT is really by some dumb luck, most likely, a new player friendly profession in pve i doubt the devs wanted to specifically make it that way but it is that way by its design. That does not mean it shouldn't have good things available to it either as some people will point out however most people seem to think because it is so low level play friendly that it shouldn't have good things.
The problem is people who love to play necro can easily feel hurt when you tell them the one profession they love to play (not because its easier in pve or has simply damage combos) should not have good things because its a noob profession and then the balance team follows this up by culling necro stuff and the main reason is because a mass of players felt that "You shouldnt have it because its a noob profession." Rarely is something out right op on necro in most cases if it was really op on necro it was a bug (Bugged scourge) or lately discovered through some form random of coordination (Epidemic bounce) which i still think personally was handled incorrectly despite me not even being a major user of the skill myself
Another likely situation is that people feel that that the necro profession should not be beating them or is performing close to the same level of damage when spent possibly more time mastering a different profession or current profession of choice.
-
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:
> > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > > > People need not to facetank it, that's true.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But you gotta admit do big damage in reaper is the most brainless thing to do, literally every single you pop hit for over 7k, even reaper autos can hit up to 10k crit.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Every single skill in reaper is worth a dodge, a block, an evade, and perma chill weakness and cripple used by a power profession are crazy strong conditions at you disposal.
> > > > > > > > > Especially when you enter reaper mode, it has no animation tells and it's instant and gotta use instinct to avoid it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is not overpowered by any mean, but being a pug noob stomper is literally abused by everyone, even mediocre players being immediately champions with it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You don't need to be a pro to land 10k reaper autos, at least have the honesty to admit that.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And watch out, I am not calling for nerfs or call the class OP.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But yeah it's just like dragonhunter when it was released, easy mode pug stomper build.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > you say braindead, but which class is not completely braindead? perma invul spellbreaker? yolosmith? or pewpew from 2k range with 10k AA soulbeast? or perma invis DE? i mean what is your point?
> > > > > > > > there is absolutely no class you Need skill to Stomp noobs. and besides, as reaper you Need a lot of skill to not insta die. most necros Need great map awareness using ridges and other stuff to avoid enemies bombs. i hva enever seen that by any warrior (only Standing in 5 enemies and dont getting any dmg, GG), and great class Knowledge. you cant yolopush on reaper because you would only hit in invuls while being terminated by everything. you Need to know how many Sustain skills, dodges, teleports every enemy has to know when the Moment has come to go in.
> > > > > > > > most necros heavily changing builds in every fight depending on which enemies they are Fighting. but classes like warrior run sicne 6 years the same build against every build. as necro you would never Play greatsword against an deadeye, cause you will never hit a good one with it. so you Play range (axe/stuff). on the other side you would never use staff against Warriors, there you use GS. for every enemy you Need other weapons, utilities, traits. i have never to do that on any other classes. so necro is the least braindead class in this game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Revenant actually is the only class with oneshot burst potential which requires being and thinking fast, requires timing, good energy management or you are screwed, one mistake and you usually die. First week playing rev you will be 90% of the times on downed state constantly before getting results if you never played it before.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I dunno why you attack warrior like that, I am not a warrior main and I agree it's a simple braindead easy mode profession, same as noobeast.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But same as reaper too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You can and destroy a spellbreaker or warrior and even an holosmith (necro counters engi) as a reaper without problems.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Necro since beta was and is the NOOB friendly pick class of everyone jumping into the game, identical as warrior.
> > > > > > > Press few buttons for perma chills and high bombs damage is easy and braindead mode sorry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course ranged pressure counters necro a lot, everyone has an hard counter, but this doesn't make the class less braindead.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a test I tried not to dodge elite necro skill Chilled to the bone.
> > > > > > > This guy with 5 minutes of gameplay on reaper, after landing elite immediately entered shroud, i was cripple chilled and with weakness, landed 2 skills I was already 10% health.
> > > > > > > I escaped a bit, he turned off shroud, axe2 at 900 range, I was dead. 22k hp in about 2-3 seconds of fight. I know my mistakes for not dodging.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This to explain how every single skill in reaper is worth dodging, and that's why even a noob can be a champion with it immediately.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Again I repeat I am not calling for nerfs or calling it OP, but it's just another noob friendly braindead spec same as noobreaker, noobeast, noobeye, scourge etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From what I see everyone just run greatsword + axe/wh, I don't see that crazy build switching you are talking to.
> > > > > > > It's just the usually build since reaper was released, now it shines because of the recent quickness rework, but nothing new under the sun.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Almost anyone can do nothing against deadeye, so you run gs anyway, deadeye is your hard counter anyway, you don't have much options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.) Revenant has with Shiro, stuff and Sword a huge amount of dodges, and while you are dodging you are attacking your Opponent. so where does it require skill? herald has great mobilty, burst and survivability. you can use glint heal if you are under pessure and getting full life again, so no way to insta die on rev.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.) i dont know what you were testing there, but not dodging necro elite skill that has huge telling is not a test, its like you are telling me "i tested not dodging a mesmer shatter, i died instantly." sry, but not dodging enemies attacks kills you? no wonder…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3.)you Need a lot of skill to managing your lifeforce on necro cause you only have 1 good skill for that and thats spectral armor. besides that you have to land A LOT of weapon skills until you get a serious amount of lifeforce from weapon skills against nearly perma invul enemies, good luck with that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4.) if you are just ONE TIME out of Position ur dead as necro/reaper. how many mistakes can a Mirage have until he get punished? 10 times? everytime you stun that class or attacking it it spamms their invulns. spiking a warrior as reaper JUST by Pressing f1 and 4 and it will proc Auto invul while the warrior Massacres you with his greatsword and full counter while you cannot Pressing anything while casting RS4. and in WHICH world does necro counter engi/holo? holo is perma CC ing you while reaper has nearly no Access to stabi. reaper elite for stabi? oh sry just 600 range. holo already stunns you with rifle from 1200 range, also with his elite he stunns you. while you are stunned he leaps to you continue to stunn you with forged form. if you go to shroud he leaps away from you. i have never seen a warrior that cant get heales while endure pain or loosing 1k life per second for using endure pain like reaper in shroud. i have never seen a reaper that is low life and healing full life in just a few seconds like FB, engi, ele… sry but you are just Focusing on the ONE Thing necro has, its dmg. but how much skill you Need to stay alive on a class without invuls, blocks, dodges until the end of world, and invis you ignore.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Definition of overpowered mechanics are mechanics that dont have a counter. but anything the necro does can at least get countered by invulns,dodges,range and mobilty. and EVERY other class has Access to those mechanics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > in all discussions i just see people have two measures. 1 for necro that is not allowed to do anything.
> > > > > > and 1 for every other classes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > just remember how much People complained About "out of nowhere burst from scourge" so anet implemented the red circles.
> > > > > > but out of nowhere burst on thief and Mirage are fine…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > like i said in another thread, if you want to discuss About balancing you have to see the WHOLE Performance of a class. and there is reaper still minor to warrior, thief, mesmer, guard,ranger, holo….because no other class has so huge tellings for their skills, low mobility, low Access to stability, no heal and no Sustain. other classes hit like reaper but with 10 times more survivability.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You know glint heal is one of the most easy to counter heals?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you spam your skills and fully heal the enemy rev that's a l2p issue.
> > > >
> > > > It's funny that you mention the l2p issue. Cause every time necro is stronger, everyone complains about it but nobody actually want to l2p against necro, with his 3 big weaknesses. Instead everyone is crying and necro gets nerfed.
> > > > But as soon as it comes to another class it's a l2p issue? That really doesn't seem right. Trait every class the same, then it's ok. (This isn't something against you, but against a lot of people out there)
> > > > >
> > > > > Difference is, with rev any skill you use must be timed right or one mistake and you die.
> > > > >
> > > > > Try it yourself.
> > > > >
> > > > > With necro you can afford many many mistakes same as warrior and still get away with it and win.
> > > > >
> > > > > Revenant always was the class who attracted people who wanted a skill level to play it at hos max.
> > > > >
> > > > > Necro warrior ranger are the easy pick of starters because they are easy mode braindead professions.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do admit, necro is an easy starter class. Especially reaper. Reaper murders anyone, that
> > > > 1) never played necro himself and learned about the weaknesses
> > > > 2)that doesn't know his own class or build and how to use it
> > > > 3)that doesn't know what kiting and cc is
> > > > 4) that doesn't know how to dodge
> > > >
> > > > Now that I think about it. There's a lot of such players...
> > > > But if you go into better skilled players, you will always see necro loose. Or at least 80% of the times.
> > > >
> > > > Good sustain? No
> > > > Good mobility? No
> > > > Good amount of stability? No
> > > > Good amount of defense? No
> > > > It's only good in 0-900 range and then it's freaking weak.
> > > >
> > > > And still, if you try to kill someone with autoinvuln, they will laugh , let themselves get hit and then burst you back.
> > > >
> > > > But necro only has very little access to defense. The only good defense it has is shroud, but it's also the burst, offensive option. So if you use it as defense, most of the times you loose your ability to pressure enemy's back, as many builds easily just hit you so hard in shroud, that you will quickly drop out of shroud.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now some people might argue: but I always see players like hollts demolishing groups of people.
> > > >
> > > > Last week I saw one of those videos. The reaper walked into a supply camp, killing 3-4 people, that tried to take the camp for their server.
> > > > But you have to see, that those 3-4 people, didn't even try to kill the reaper, they just did their spawn-camp. And most of these people, trying to get their spawn-camp back, are pve people trying to get a gift of battle. So not very good people.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to say, that hollts or other known players are bad. By far not. They just show things, that most people want to see.
> > > > I'd do the same if I would make new videos. Cause that's what brings the clicks.
> > > >
> > > > Me as a necro main, I would love to see 1v1s against very good other players, even if this results in a video with more losses than wins.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Did i asked for nerfs? Seems i have to repeat myself all the times.
> > >
> > > All i said is reaper is a noob friendly brainless easy to get into profession.
> > > And same as his brother scourge, in a gamemode like pvp where you win by controlling caps, with easy mode spammable aoes, one condi one power, over the cap points, they shines.
> >
> > No you got that backwards
> > In PvE necro in general can be pretty brainless to play and easy to pick up on because its survivability is much higher than most professions
> > in PvP this flips to having some of the worst survivability
> > - no free vigor trait like the other light armor professions have
> > - no super speed like the other light armor professiosn have
> > - no instant blinks to disengage or engage
> > - not able to handle relentless cc chains very well
> > - sustain is limited by shroud which can be burst through
> > - Generally has soft / passive defensive tools (shroud) and limited in active defensive tools (Which makes it easy in pve btw if you didnt know)
> > - is doomed to be focused before all other professions because of its team pressure potential
> >
> > In short necro does not get 3 and 4 chances in most cases like other professions do. Other professions often have better burst, active defensive tools, and mobility.
> >
> > >
> > > No I can't treat the profession all the same like you say because they are not all the same, warrior and necro are so easy to pick and become good at them in few time, rev for example takes a lot longer, it's called class diversity and skill cap.
> > >
> >
> > Allow me to correct you. Ive put most of my hour into necro ill have you know that warrior plays the opposite of necro in my mind and its by far the hardest profession for me to pick up and play. Warrior is said to be EZ but despite what people say i struggle with it. I personally think warrior is rather hard to play as well in all gamemodes.
> >
> > That said there are things that warrior can do to make it easier such as double stances and spell breaker in the right situations most professions will have hard time killing you even if you have hard time playing the profession itself. (based on my experience)
> >
> > > It's the same as those oneshot mesmers who mastered the oneshot burst over and over, they are not necessarily skilled players, they just mastered the oneshot burst, but they are still able to kill you regardless they have probably half of your skill.
> > > Scourge and reaper confirm this.
> >
> > This statement really makes no sense to me at all. "Scourge and reaper confirm what?"
> >
> > >
> > > In spvp especially as necro most of the times you jump into the middle point spamming everything you have, not caring about the enemy having stability, resistance or anything and you see them melt by your condis or by your crazy high damage output without much effort.
> >
> >
> > No what ever necros you have been watching are the ones that usually go down instantly or they are scourges who are use to the bugged scourge and not aware of the changes that have been made. If reaper jumps into a fight and soul spirals and you eat the whole thing then maybe you are the one lacking some skill. If scourge almost nothing scourge has right now will deal tons of damage with the exception of the elite and if you stand in that too then well..... lack of skill. I dont know what you play but ive see necros do what you speak of and in most cases it does not work out very well.
> >
> > >
> > > And when you perma cripple chill and weakness your enemy it's not that easy for him to immediately kite away from you since you move like a slow motion turtle.
> >
> > Conditions are apart of necros only sustain. Chill and cripple use to be 100% more effective when they reduced movement skills too you know. That change hurt necro very badly in terms of its sustain and chase potential.
> > Generally under most builds its not going to be perma chill or weakness, perma cripple is a thing yes but thats because cripple is such a common condition now.
> > Chill has been reduced appropriately if you are getting perma chilled you are doing something wrong.
> > Perma weakness... lets have a talk about this one. Part of the perma weakness you might see from time to time comes from the fact that you might be swamping yourself in might consistently. Necro is the counter to the current meta that is boon drowning yourself. Untill anet cull boons appropriately like they did with conditions you will have this happen from time to time. Its not specifically the necros fault.
> >
> > Lastly WHY DONT YOU HAVE CONDITION CLEAR IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN SPVP >:C
> >
> > >
> > > Just look at scourge, it got "nerfed" every single patch from when released until now and it's still in the meta still dishing out cancerous condi spam that kills you in few seconds if you get caught unready, this shows how kitten is the concept of that profession.
> >
> > Ive already gone through this at best only 3 things can really kill you from scourge
> > 1 You stood in the elite for far too long because you got tunnel visioned aka you made a bad play and got punished for it but wont admit it
> > 2 You stood in desert shroud and just face tanked it because you thought you should automatically win once again bad play
> > 3 You were swimming in boons and the scourge chose to make the right play by slapping you with scepter 3 or corrupt boon (As they should) and you kind of got screwed by your own boons. This is not really bad play but its not your fault that the scourge made the sensible choice and got rewarded for it.
> >
> > Scourge shades when desert shroud is not active are pretty harmless now they simply dont do enough to instantly melt you the only exception being is if they get a few lucky boon converts on hit. But as stated thats not really their fault that you were downed in boons.
>
> Personally i don't find pve reaper brainless at all.You too sound a bit like a hater.I mean like every other class i got to switch tools to be efficient, and for pve, especially fractals, i have to change to wells to survive.
I main reaper and have played other professions in pve and pvp
In pve specifically
Compared to all of them necro is by far the easiest to survive with in pve thats not even an argument that thats just honesty. I dont hate necro in general cause its my fav and most played profession (about 5k hours of my total 7k play time)
That said even if you have to change to wells to survive other professions dont have that option infact most other professions will get 1 shot when you wont be. The exceptions being warrior who also has natural high vitality.
Please take my take my "brainless" term with a grain of salt. Ive played necro for so long that for me in pve it really takes no thought to play so for me in most of the general content it is brainless due to the sheer amount of time ive put into it. Where as other professions require me to focus rather hard. I know i can eat hits on necro like a boss and be just fine where as other professions will often be 1 shot by those same hits.
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> @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > @"Nimon.7840" said:
> > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:
> > > > > > > @"whoknocks.4935" said:
> > > > > > > People need not to facetank it, that's true.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But you gotta admit do big damage in reaper is the most brainless thing to do, literally every single you pop hit for over 7k, even reaper autos can hit up to 10k crit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Every single skill in reaper is worth a dodge, a block, an evade, and perma chill weakness and cripple used by a power profession are crazy strong conditions at you disposal.
> > > > > > > Especially when you enter reaper mode, it has no animation tells and it's instant and gotta use instinct to avoid it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is not overpowered by any mean, but being a pug noob stomper is literally abused by everyone, even mediocre players being immediately champions with it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You don't need to be a pro to land 10k reaper autos, at least have the honesty to admit that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And watch out, I am not calling for nerfs or call the class OP.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But yeah it's just like dragonhunter when it was released, easy mode pug stomper build.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you say braindead, but which class is not completely braindead? perma invul spellbreaker? yolosmith? or pewpew from 2k range with 10k AA soulbeast? or perma invis DE? i mean what is your point?
> > > > > > there is absolutely no class you Need skill to Stomp noobs. and besides, as reaper you Need a lot of skill to not insta die. most necros Need great map awareness using ridges and other stuff to avoid enemies bombs. i hva enever seen that by any warrior (only Standing in 5 enemies and dont getting any dmg, GG), and great class Knowledge. you cant yolopush on reaper because you would only hit in invuls while being terminated by everything. you Need to know how many Sustain skills, dodges, teleports every enemy has to know when the Moment has come to go in.
> > > > > > most necros heavily changing builds in every fight depending on which enemies they are Fighting. but classes like warrior run sicne 6 years the same build against every build. as necro you would never Play greatsword against an deadeye, cause you will never hit a good one with it. so you Play range (axe/stuff). on the other side you would never use staff against Warriors, there you use GS. for every enemy you Need other weapons, utilities, traits. i have never to do that on any other classes. so necro is the least braindead class in this game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Revenant actually is the only class with oneshot burst potential which requires being and thinking fast, requires timing, good energy management or you are screwed, one mistake and you usually die. First week playing rev you will be 90% of the times on downed state constantly before getting results if you never played it before.
> > > > >
> > > > > I dunno why you attack warrior like that, I am not a warrior main and I agree it's a simple braindead easy mode profession, same as noobeast.
> > > > >
> > > > > But same as reaper too.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can and destroy a spellbreaker or warrior and even an holosmith (necro counters engi) as a reaper without problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > Necro since beta was and is the NOOB friendly pick class of everyone jumping into the game, identical as warrior.
> > > > > Press few buttons for perma chills and high bombs damage is easy and braindead mode sorry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course ranged pressure counters necro a lot, everyone has an hard counter, but this doesn't make the class less braindead.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a test I tried not to dodge elite necro skill Chilled to the bone.
> > > > > This guy with 5 minutes of gameplay on reaper, after landing elite immediately entered shroud, i was cripple chilled and with weakness, landed 2 skills I was already 10% health.
> > > > > I escaped a bit, he turned off shroud, axe2 at 900 range, I was dead. 22k hp in about 2-3 seconds of fight. I know my mistakes for not dodging.
> > > > >
> > > > > This to explain how every single skill in reaper is worth dodging, and that's why even a noob can be a champion with it immediately.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again I repeat I am not calling for nerfs or calling it OP, but it's just another noob friendly braindead spec same as noobreaker, noobeast, noobeye, scourge etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > From what I see everyone just run greatsword + axe/wh, I don't see that crazy build switching you are talking to.
> > > > > It's just the usually build since reaper was released, now it shines because of the recent quickness rework, but nothing new under the sun.
> > > > >
> > > > > Almost anyone can do nothing against deadeye, so you run gs anyway, deadeye is your hard counter anyway, you don't have much options.
> > > >
> > > > 1.) Revenant has with Shiro, stuff and Sword a huge amount of dodges, and while you are dodging you are attacking your Opponent. so where does it require skill? herald has great mobilty, burst and survivability. you can use glint heal if you are under pessure and getting full life again, so no way to insta die on rev.
> > > >
> > > > 2.) i dont know what you were testing there, but not dodging necro elite skill that has huge telling is not a test, its like you are telling me "i tested not dodging a mesmer shatter, i died instantly." sry, but not dodging enemies attacks kills you? no wonder…
> > > >
> > > > 3.)you Need a lot of skill to managing your lifeforce on necro cause you only have 1 good skill for that and thats spectral armor. besides that you have to land A LOT of weapon skills until you get a serious amount of lifeforce from weapon skills against nearly perma invul enemies, good luck with that.
> > > >
> > > > 4.) if you are just ONE TIME out of Position ur dead as necro/reaper. how many mistakes can a Mirage have until he get punished? 10 times? everytime you stun that class or attacking it it spamms their invulns. spiking a warrior as reaper JUST by Pressing f1 and 4 and it will proc Auto invul while the warrior Massacres you with his greatsword and full counter while you cannot Pressing anything while casting RS4. and in WHICH world does necro counter engi/holo? holo is perma CC ing you while reaper has nearly no Access to stabi. reaper elite for stabi? oh sry just 600 range. holo already stunns you with rifle from 1200 range, also with his elite he stunns you. while you are stunned he leaps to you continue to stunn you with forged form. if you go to shroud he leaps away from you. i have never seen a warrior that cant get heales while endure pain or loosing 1k life per second for using endure pain like reaper in shroud. i have never seen a reaper that is low life and healing full life in just a few seconds like FB, engi, ele… sry but you are just Focusing on the ONE Thing necro has, its dmg. but how much skill you Need to stay alive on a class without invuls, blocks, dodges until the end of world, and invis you ignore.
> > > >
> > > > The Definition of overpowered mechanics are mechanics that dont have a counter. but anything the necro does can at least get countered by invulns,dodges,range and mobilty. and EVERY other class has Access to those mechanics.
> > > >
> > > > in all discussions i just see people have two measures. 1 for necro that is not allowed to do anything.
> > > > and 1 for every other classes.
> > > >
> > > > just remember how much People complained About "out of nowhere burst from scourge" so anet implemented the red circles.
> > > > but out of nowhere burst on thief and Mirage are fine…
> > > >
> > > > like i said in another thread, if you want to discuss About balancing you have to see the WHOLE Performance of a class. and there is reaper still minor to warrior, thief, mesmer, guard,ranger, holo….because no other class has so huge tellings for their skills, low mobility, low Access to stability, no heal and no Sustain. other classes hit like reaper but with 10 times more survivability.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You know glint heal is one of the most easy to counter heals?
> > >
> > > If you spam your skills and fully heal the enemy rev that's a l2p issue.
> >
> > It's funny that you mention the l2p issue. Cause every time necro is stronger, everyone complains about it but nobody actually want to l2p against necro, with his 3 big weaknesses. Instead everyone is crying and necro gets nerfed.
> > But as soon as it comes to another class it's a l2p issue? That really doesn't seem right. Trait every class the same, then it's ok. (This isn't something against you, but against a lot of people out there)
> > >
> > > Difference is, with rev any skill you use must be timed right or one mistake and you die.
> > >
> > > Try it yourself.
> > >
> > > With necro you can afford many many mistakes same as warrior and still get away with it and win.
> > >
> > > Revenant always was the class who attracted people who wanted a skill level to play it at hos max.
> > >
> > > Necro warrior ranger are the easy pick of starters because they are easy mode braindead professions.
> > >
> >
> > I do admit, necro is an easy starter class. Especially reaper. Reaper murders anyone, that
> > 1) never played necro himself and learned about the weaknesses
> > 2)that doesn't know his own class or build and how to use it
> > 3)that doesn't know what kiting and cc is
> > 4) that doesn't know how to dodge
> >
> > Now that I think about it. There's a lot of such players...
> > But if you go into better skilled players, you will always see necro loose. Or at least 80% of the times.
> >
> > Good sustain? No
> > Good mobility? No
> > Good amount of stability? No
> > Good amount of defense? No
> > It's only good in 0-900 range and then it's freaking weak.
> >
> > And still, if you try to kill someone with autoinvuln, they will laugh , let themselves get hit and then burst you back.
> >
> > But necro only has very little access to defense. The only good defense it has is shroud, but it's also the burst, offensive option. So if you use it as defense, most of the times you loose your ability to pressure enemy's back, as many builds easily just hit you so hard in shroud, that you will quickly drop out of shroud.
> >
> >
> > Now some people might argue: but I always see players like hollts demolishing groups of people.
> >
> > Last week I saw one of those videos. The reaper walked into a supply camp, killing 3-4 people, that tried to take the camp for their server.
> > But you have to see, that those 3-4 people, didn't even try to kill the reaper, they just did their spawn-camp. And most of these people, trying to get their spawn-camp back, are pve people trying to get a gift of battle. So not very good people.
> >
> > I don't want to say, that hollts or other known players are bad. By far not. They just show things, that most people want to see.
> > I'd do the same if I would make new videos. Cause that's what brings the clicks.
> >
> > Me as a necro main, I would love to see 1v1s against very good other players, even if this results in a video with more losses than wins.
> >
> >
>
> Did i asked for nerfs? Seems i have to repeat myself all the times.
>
> All i said is reaper is a noob friendly brainless easy to get into profession.
> And same as his brother scourge, in a gamemode like pvp where you win by controlling caps, with easy mode spammable aoes, one condi one power, over the cap points, they shines.
No you got that backwards
In PvE necro in general can be pretty brainless to play and easy to pick up on because its survivability is much higher than most professions
in PvP this flips to having some of the worst survivability
- no free vigor trait like the other light armor professions have
- no super speed like the other light armor professiosn have
- no instant blinks to disengage or engage
- not able to handle relentless cc chains very well
- sustain is limited by shroud which can be burst through
- Generally has soft / passive defensive tools (shroud) and limited in active defensive tools (Which makes it easy in pve btw if you didnt know)
- is doomed to be focused before all other professions because of its team pressure potential
In short necro does not get 3 and 4 chances in most cases like other professions do. Other professions often have better burst, active defensive tools, and mobility.
>
> No I can't treat the profession all the same like you say because they are not all the same, warrior and necro are so easy to pick and become good at them in few time, rev for example takes a lot longer, it's called class diversity and skill cap.
>
Allow me to correct you. Ive put most of my hour into necro ill have you know that warrior plays the opposite of necro in my mind and its by far the hardest profession for me to pick up and play. Warrior is said to be EZ but despite what people say i struggle with it. I personally think warrior is rather hard to play as well in all gamemodes.
That said there are things that warrior can do to make it easier such as double stances and spell breaker in the right situations most professions will have hard time killing you even if you have hard time playing the profession itself. (based on my experience)
> It's the same as those oneshot mesmers who mastered the oneshot burst over and over, they are not necessarily skilled players, they just mastered the oneshot burst, but they are still able to kill you regardless they have probably half of your skill.
> Scourge and reaper confirm this.
This statement really makes no sense to me at all. "Scourge and reaper confirm what?"
>
> In spvp especially as necro most of the times you jump into the middle point spamming everything you have, not caring about the enemy having stability, resistance or anything and you see them melt by your condis or by your crazy high damage output without much effort.
No what ever necros you have been watching are the ones that usually go down instantly or they are scourges who are use to the bugged scourge and not aware of the changes that have been made. If reaper jumps into a fight and soul spirals and you eat the whole thing then maybe you are the one lacking some skill. If scourge almost nothing scourge has right now will deal tons of damage with the exception of the elite and if you stand in that too then well..... lack of skill. I dont know what you play but ive see necros do what you speak of and in most cases it does not work out very well.
>
> And when you perma cripple chill and weakness your enemy it's not that easy for him to immediately kite away from you since you move like a slow motion turtle.
Conditions are apart of necros only sustain. Chill and cripple use to be 100% more effective when they reduced movement skills too you know. That change hurt necro very badly in terms of its sustain and chase potential.
Generally under most builds its not going to be perma chill or weakness, perma cripple is a thing yes but thats because cripple is such a common condition now.
Chill has been reduced appropriately if you are getting perma chilled you are doing something wrong.
Perma weakness... lets have a talk about this one. Part of the perma weakness you might see from time to time comes from the fact that you might be swamping yourself in might consistently. Necro is the counter to the current meta that is boon drowning yourself. Untill anet cull boons appropriately like they did with conditions you will have this happen from time to time. Its not specifically the necros fault.
Lastly WHY DONT YOU HAVE CONDITION CLEAR IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN SPVP >:C
>
> Just look at scourge, it got "nerfed" every single patch from when released until now and it's still in the meta still dishing out cancerous condi spam that kills you in few seconds if you get caught unready, this shows how kitten is the concept of that profession.
Ive already gone through this at best only 3 things can really kill you from scourge
1 You stood in the elite for far too long because you got tunnel visioned aka you made a bad play and got punished for it but wont admit it
2 You stood in desert shroud and just face tanked it because you thought you should automatically win once again bad play
3 You were swimming in boons and the scourge chose to make the right play by slapping you with scepter 3 or corrupt boon (As they should) and you kind of got screwed by your own boons. This is not really bad play but its not your fault that the scourge made the sensible choice and got rewarded for it.
Scourge shades when desert shroud is not active are pretty harmless now they simply dont do enough to instantly melt you the only exception being is if they get a few lucky boon converts on hit. But as stated thats not really their fault that you were downed in boons.
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> @"derd.6413" said:
> > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > If anything:reaper needs buffed rather than nerfed so it can be competitive all the way up to plat 3 and maybe legendary?
> >
> > I mean Make the necro have to take defensive traits to allow it to be super competitive.
>
> so to make reaper good, they need to rework DM
Reaper nearly is good as is to make core necro good they need to rework DM
As a result reaper will benefit yes but still most of reapers problems come from core problems not reaper specific problems. Reaper only needs 2 things at most
A change to the shout trait (life stealing is not a good fit for them) Maybe ammo on some shouts also ie suffer / nothing can save you
Some form 2-3 second super speed to help it chase better, could easily be merged into Relentless Pursuit at the cost of some of its current effectiveness its not really something people pick up because its currently not very worth vs the other 2 trait options even the bad shout traits is a bit better.
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> @"phs.6089" said:
> I don't play necro and know very little. Just outta match in spvp. Is it possible to get Reaper's Shroud every single time your HP drops to 2%? Given you are under lots of pressure.
You can activate Reaper shroud at any time while its off cooldown no matter how low your hp is be it 2% or 1% so long as you have at least 10% life force built up.
As others stated there is a trait that will do it for you should your hp hit 0 and you have at least 10% although its not that good due to the rest of the traitline being so bad.
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I personally dislike how over compensated mesmer is for no real reason its generally the first to get some of the new and still "Loved" mechanics of the gam like "alacrity"
Its always going to be relevant in the game in all areas of the game because they have designed it to be so.
Mesmer will never not be relevant or even close to questionable in relevance like some other profession often hover on
I think its just over done in general and often too rewarded. My first experience with Mesmer was "Why does it have so many good trait options" It was the first and only profession to make me scream that in my head when building it in game
Signet of Vampirism Buff.
in Necromancer
Posted
> @"Anchoku.8142" said:
> Necro has ways to counter condition damage so SoV does not need to counter DOT effects. However, it is rare to get a condition from a skill without any direct damage applied at the same time.
>
> War Horn's Wail of Doom is one of those rare stun skills without damage but most have a damage component to proc SoV's passive heal.
To be honest it might still proc the signet it would need to be tested. Wail of doom will proc life stealing properties from vampiric and vampiric aura.
It does kind of half heartedly deliver a strike.