ZDragon.3046

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> Simply add / tweak a few (Grandmaster) traits that can get the job done:

>

> * Unholy Sanctuary - Activate Shroud when taking a lethal blow while above the Lifeforce treshold + Shroud now uses an ammo system. 3 Charges, 3 sec cooldown between uses, 12 seconds recharge per charge (Recharge also works during shroud)

I dont understand this at all.

> * Putrid defense - now also causes poison to foes hitting you while you have protection

Anet wont do this they just did a complte culling on traits that punish players for landing hits on other players this wont happen.

> * Corruptors Fervor : take reduced damage and condition damage for each condition on the foe that damagaes you: 3% per unique condition.

Why is this simply not your idea for Putrid Defense :/

> * Parasitic Contagion: Now heals for a flat amount for each condition applied (150) (per stack), 5% of your condition damage heals you

Simply take the current version and allow it to work with a 100% boost while in shroud meaning increased healing during shroud time as opposed to being punished with 0 healing in shroud.

> * Weakening Shroud: Add - enfeeble now causes slow. Causing weakness also slows your target (ICD per Target)

Mehhh not really needed

> * Last Rites: Remove the stopped bleeding out part and replace with: When you go down lifeforce erupts from you, healing and reviving nearby allies including yourself

Last rights is by all means supportive i think its ok as is maybe give it a slight boost such as downed allies heal for small amounts over time ontop of the no bleed out while downed.

> * Unholy Martyr: add when you draw a condition from an ally gain health. When you transfer an condition to an enemy steal health.

No bad idea cause it will be even weaker. the current version is fine as is converting to life force is fine unless death magic gains a trait that does this this needs to stay as is.

> * Spiteful Spirit: add - when removing or corrupting a boon you deal damage and cause AOE blind

Pointless (its based on a boon system) meaning little to no use in pve and in pvp you are more than likely to get plenty of blinds from corrupting fury as is.

> * Rework all minion traits like they do with weapon traits (Give them an additional benefit that is not tied to minions)

Not even sure that will help them much.

> @"Patrick.2987" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Patrick.2987" said:

> > > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > > actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

> > > > That's part of the rework. They removed the stunbreak on Recall, but the cooldown does also not reset anymore when using it.

> > > >

> > > > I think it's now better than before, esp. when considering that Spectral Walk is best used before entering shroud to have constant condi cleansing during shroud uptime (which you could achieve via DM as well, but this traitline is still trash and no serious option).

> > >

> > > If you just call DM trash you have no clue about the game at least for pvp and maybe wvw.

> >

> > oh its still trash If you think its good now then you have no clue about the game especially in pvp and wvw (stop thinking about just that 1 minion trait)

> >

> > Because of the fact that blood magic still does what its suppose to do better blood magic literally makes death magic's role a complete joke by doing everything it does better

> > Death magic has a little condition removal

> > Blood magic offers removal into life force

> > Blood magic offers better healing

> > Blood magic offers protection via wells

> > Blood magic offers minion sustain

> >

> > The only thing death magic offers that blood magic does not is a minion spawn trait to make players feel happy after its been requested for some years and some toughness which unless you go for a legit maximum toughness build amounts to **Nothing** when it comes down to eating a meaty burst.

> >

>

> IT is not about minions but toughness, near perma protection and lower incoming condition damage. It is stronger vs conditions and vs direct dmg so only healing is worse. Healing is getting better if you have to heal less tho. 3k armor + protection + 36% less incoming condition damage is pretty decent. Protection from wells is only applied if you cast them on yourself and you invest your utility slots for it at the cost of lifeforce and stunbreaks etc.

The toughness you get from death magic is about 180 if you don't run minions and thats only in shroud

If you run minions it depends on them not going down fast to up keep the toughness which be both know does not happen because they are bad and have little defense against other players especially.

You wont find perma protection in necormancer even if you combine the new necormancer trait with shroud flassing and protection from blood magic via wells. its not even close to having perma protection. A mesmer can achieve levels of perma protection along with several other boons by dropping a few spells while dealign considerably more damage Elementalist can achieve perma protection with ease depending on their spec along with other boons and while they are more squishy they have damage avoidance tools to keep them safe.

Even if we could get perma protection and way more toughness from death magic it wont equal to to the sheer level that damage avoidance tools like evades, stealth, blocks provide on other professions on the same armor class no less.

So no it s really about how much damage you can avoid and how much you can reduce while sustaining yourself.

Blood magic currently acts as a sustain tool for potential healing through offensive actions which is ok.

Death magic should be acting as the tool to help avoid and reduce damage even more.

While yes toughness will help reduce some damage its very minor we might be talking less than 5% when you look at the trait line alone when it comes to strike damage and more with condition depending on how you spec.

What death magic does not do is improve damage avoidance, nore does it provide means to do so through boons like aegis or boosting certain weapon traits that would have blocks or evades on them (which is none on the necormancer)

So yes DEATH MAGIC is still trash. Until it does what

- Defense does for a warrior

- Wilderness Survival Does for a ranger

- Shadow Arts does for a Theif

- Chaos does for a mesmer

(just to name a few examples)

IT WILL BE REGARDED AS TRASH! lol sorry i got a bit triggered.

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> Some thoughts of what would be my "dream" rework of the necromancers core class mechanics: Numbers and effects are placeholder and ofc can and most likely have to be changed

>

> Lifeforce:

> - Every attack that hits an enemy generates 1% LF. (Attacks that do not technical hit like corrupt boon would generate 3 % for example, according to the amount of boons corrupted, if the attack is not dodged, this has to be made on a per skill basis based on what makes the most sense)

> - LF re- and degenerates when out of combat to the value of 50%. Like OOC healing the lifeforce would fill / drain to 50%

> - Certain skills generate additional lifeforce, just like they do now.

>

Hmmm this idea could be ok ish....

> Shroud:

> - Baseshroud value is reduced by 50%. Vitality Scaling is also reduced by 50%

i dont agree with this Vitality should remain as is no real reason to change vitality stats even with your other changes just make lf not scaled on vitality instead its just 0 to 100% value in which soul reaping traits boost the max value to 120% like holo heat trait boost it from 100 to 150.

> - DR in Shroud is set to 33% for both, condi damage and direct damage.

especially if you do this part

> - LF does not drain in shroud

Fair enough, but then what causes it to drain will it simply drain when you perform attacks? You have to be careful when you look at things like this.

> - Shroud does not have an cooldown. All shroud traits that currently have no cooldown will get an ICD.

I dont agree with this shroud will still need to have a cool down even if its a reduced one. (Leave those traits alone lol)

> - Shroud does still count as weapon swap for the sake of traits

> - Incoming Healing while in shroud from outside sources is reduced by 50%. Healing caused by the necromancers own sources is 100%

I agree with this change

> - Shroud does not interrupt skills, actions, channels, etc but replaces skills 1- 5 like it does now.

That might not work because its a weapon swap which conflicts no class can currently continue to channel a skill that is not interupted by weapon swap.

> - All utility and elite skills are useable while in shroud.

Yup nice

>

> Shroud attunement called "pact":

> - Players can choose one of three attunements that modify shroud in a passive way.

> - These "pacts" could be based on the starting masks used at character creation, to be in lore.

> - Pacts can be swapped freely while OOC.

> - Effects should vary and be rather dramatic in effect: e.g. "Become immune to hard CC, when this effect triggers you loose 25% LF" or "When you are critically hit above the health treshold you dodge incoming attacks for 1.5 seconds and loose 25% LF"

> - These pacts allow for better trait distribution, traits could not only affect shroud entry / exit only but also modify or improve the pacts, allowing for much greater and focused trait choices. If Trait A modifies all pacts in a defensive manner you can still choose what kind of pact you wanna use, while greatly improving build variety.

Ok (this idea would be GREAT FOR CORE) Something like this could give core its own identiy without directly buffing reaper or scourge so I think this idea is neat but you need to make sure its a core necormancer thing only

> Shroud skills:

> - Shroud skills are based on your weapons and pact choice. The general idea for each skill should be

> - Skill 1 (AA) is based on your MAINHAND weapon.

> - Skill 2 (Mobility skill) is based on your PACT

> - Skill 3 (CC Skill) is based on your MAINHAND weapon

> - Skill 4 (AOE Skill) is based on your OFFHAND weapon (mainhead weapon if staff / twohanded)

> - Skill 5 (Wildcard skill) is based on your PACT

> - of course these skills could vary greatly. Skill 3 for example being the current fear when wielding a staff, when wielding a dagger it instead is a immob that caused vulnerability and good damage, etc.

I only agree partly with this because i have written this suggestion before myself.

I think only the AA should be based on your main hand weapon every other skill should remain close to the same as they are now but with bonus effects based on your PACT some of them could at some what differently but we dont need to make 20 new skills. Anet has already addressed how they feel about making tons of new skills. Especially ones that sit under the profession mechanic code of the game cause that code is hard to mess with. Basically the more skills they have to make the less likely of a chance that this will happen. Frankly doing it for every shroud skill just seems like over kill to me.

Staff in main hand (life blast)

Axe in main hand ( ranged fast none projectile deals bonus damage based on vuln)

Dagger in main hand (fast melee attack shorter range than reaper not as high damage as reaper either)

Do do it for that many weapon and pact combinations requires a full scale rework and i don't see that in necros future.

**Most importantly like i said something like this needs to effect core only**. Reaper and scourge already have their identities so to speak. Core needs more help than the other two specs and your ideas particularly the Pacts and shroud attacks changing based on weapon would be excellent ways to address core issues without buffing reaper and scourge at the same time. Reaper could possibly benefit from some of the things you listed up till you get to the Pacts and attacks change based on weapons at that point reaper and scourge should not be included.

> @"Patrick.2987" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > actually its not. Spectral recall does not break stuns. its just a teleport.

> > That's part of the rework. They removed the stunbreak on Recall, but the cooldown does also not reset anymore when using it.

> >

> > I think it's now better than before, esp. when considering that Spectral Walk is best used before entering shroud to have constant condi cleansing during shroud uptime (which you could achieve via DM as well, but this traitline is still trash and no serious option).

>

> If you just call DM trash you have no clue about the game at least for pvp and maybe wvw.

oh its still trash If you think its good now then you have no clue about the game especially in pvp and wvw (stop thinking about just that 1 minion trait)

Because of the fact that blood magic still does what its suppose to do better blood magic literally makes death magic's role a complete joke by doing everything it does better

Death magic has a little condition removal

Blood magic offers removal into life force

Blood magic offers better healing

Blood magic offers protection via wells

Blood magic offers minion sustain

The only thing death magic offers that blood magic does not is a minion spawn trait to make players feel happy after its been requested for some years and some toughness which unless you go for a legit maximum toughness build amounts to **Nothing** when it comes down to eating a meaty burst.

> @"Akrasia.5469" said:

> Chill of Death, Chilling Nova, Spiteful Spirit, Weakening Shroud have all recently lost their ability to critically hit foes.

> My idea for a general fix to the entire class is to take away crits from the majority of utility skills and traits and increase the base damage of all said skills and traits by 20-50% (on a case by case basis) in all game modes.

Yeah stop please stop suggesting things.

> Shroud skills should have the max damage increase with no crits. Any traits that increase crit % would just add a damage buff or perhaps some utility we're lacking like mobility. This would make it a situation where precision isn't needed at all for the class, which is what I think the devs are going for overall.

Yeah no thats not what they are going for. If you noticed they actually removed some critical chance from Death perception and gave it ferocity which means you are required to invest in some crit stats to get those crits. Decimate Defenses was a result of the fact of how Chill causes Vuln with reaper and the fact that along time ago Necro use to have more Vuln traits but no traits ore skills that really played on the Vuln condition.

> Then we would have a lot more flexibility to spec into healing or defensive abilities. We wouldn't be pigeonholed into traits like Death's Perception and Decimate Defenses. Crits could still work for weapon skills so it's wouldn't be completely useless but reducing our reliance on crits could open the class up for many more viable ways to play.

Necromancer is already a pretty flexible profession but your forgetting a few things here.

1: Healing specs like blood magic fit into dps or sub dps specs and work for necro and they still wont be the best options for end game pve thats just how it is Necro is not a true healer no matter how much damage they cut your idea to remove crits for this is bad

2: Our defensive abilities and traits are CONSIDERABLY under tooled compared to other professions even the ones in the same armor class. We do not have true damage avoidance or high mobility. IF we lose the ability to do damage for those things many people will consider it too bunker or simply unfun because it lacks the ability to do any damage (not to mention necros damage aint all that to start with)

>

> Now I know this won't fix everything wrong with Necro but it would be a great start.

It kind of wont fix anything

The majority of players in mmo games want to do damage so dont say things like **"pigeonholed into traits like Death's Perception and Decimate Defenses. "** Because thats simply not the case. People take those things because they enjoy doing the damage role. Depending on your build some people might not even take Decimate Defenses these days Its been a while sense Ive used it. (its usually causing me to over cap on crit chance)

As for other specs removing critical even more wont fix any problems. In fact it would pigeonhole people into condition builds which is not any more fair when it comes to build diversity you want so badly.

> @"XECOR.2814" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > Dont forget about making **flesh wurm** a practical teleport/breakstun vs being a telegraphed "save point" that dies in 2 hits

> > New Wurm

> >

> > Shadow step to target location leaving behind a summoned flesh wurm to attack your foes. (instant cast /break stun)

> > Follow up with

> > Teleport back to your wurm's location destroying it, gaining life force, and blind foes. (now has a small cast time)

> >

> > basically the portion that acts as the break stun needs to be flip flopped as a QoL change. This alone would make Wurm so much better.

> >

> > I dont particularly agree with stealth on spectral skills but **spectral walk** making you immune to movement impairing conditions would be nice.

> >

> > I only think currently that one trait should be a stealth trait for necro and its in the death magic tree

> > **"Beyond the Vail"** should grant the necro 2 or 3 seconds of stealth upon leaving shroud. It makes sense here considering death magic is suppose to be your defense line and stealth acts as one of the strongest defense mechanics in the game. But thats just me.

> >

>

> -If they add breakstun to both spectral walk cast and spectral recall then it will be much better utility for use because lets be real necro needs some breakstuns as it doesnt have mobility. After condi cleanse implementation on spectral walk i dont think it needs movement impairment immunity for *balance.

>

It would still make more sense to have done it that way imo as it would have promoted the mobility behind the skill. But this is flexible i guess.

> - First of all wurm cast time should be halved(much needed qol) and cd should be reduced according to how much you want to *balance it. Secondly i think on the teleport use it should do 1 aoe boon corrupt and fear in a 240units radius around wurm so that it provides some burst potential and potential combos. Passive wurm attacks should also need something because it is very flavour less right now.

The first wurm cast should just teleport you and be instant none of this halfed cast bs. As a break stun tool you shouldn't have to place it (telling people) where you are going to go when you want to escape. Not to mention it can be killed before you can use it without it even providing a fair amount of time for you to abuse the situation of some one going for it. Just port and spawn the wurm at the same time. Then flip the skill to be used as a 2nd teleport back to the wurm.

We actually dont need anymore boon corrupts. IF we get more boon corrupts at this point its just to counter boon splatter that all other professions are getting so willy nilly.

Anet needs to cull boons down to a handle full on each profession, much like necro already has (having only mostly might, protection, and personal swiftness) if they do this for every profession we wont need new boon corrupts or increased boon corrupts added to reworked or new skills and traits. Consider this every time there is a boon corrupt it does 2 things

- Serves no current purpose in pve except in high end few fractal situations

- Replaces what could have been a stronger tool or mechanic that could have been at the necromancers disposal from things like hard defenses to mobility

I dont miss the old signets of suffering because the current one is good actually.

The signets are just a bit under powered in some aspects. Some of them need to change while others just need some QoL love imo

Signet of locust is a bit to situational ( possibly should be near instant cast if not nothing more than a fraction of a second.)

Signet of spite's base cooldown is WAYYY TOO HIGH for the effect you get. The power bonus is good when traited the active is garbage regardless if you play power or condition. The strike damage is low, its missing some of the better damaging conditions, The few damaging conditions it has are applied in stacks far too low and overall its a signet that is not fit for the passive it has. Signet of spite should literally be what the old power scepter use to be.

Passive power increase, Active Deals heavy damage that plus increased damage for each condition on your foe (make it apply less conditions but conditions fitting for power builds vuln, weakness, blind, cripple, slow) remove the damaging conditions from it.

Plauge signet needs to lose its supportive function from its passive. It could consume a condition for hp or life force every few seconds and the number of conditions eaten goes to 2 when traited

Signet of undeath is almost perfect as is. It literally just needs a shorter cast time.

Vamp signet is actually pretty good maybe although a QoL change that needs to happen is the the timing of when the active use hp is restored. Currently Hp is restored after the after cast completes not when the cast time completes. So you finish casting and there is about a .25 to a .50 of a second before the hp is actually granted to you that ontop of the skills long cast time is very annoying.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> It's interesting to note that Woodenpotatoes qualified this patch as an "insane amount of powercreep for the necromancer". Well that was patchnote critics on the spurt of the moment, maybe he might think differently now.

Yeah i dont think it was power creep at all. He was looking at mostly life force gain on fear application and pve minion master when he called those things out.

He also called out how "Some changes seemed shady" and seemed what pretty much his professional way of saying lowkey nerfed. He also failed to realize how some traits shifted from one spot to another with the name changes. I could be wrong but he is not a big necromancer player if i recall. So to him what sounds like powercreep may not be how other necro players see it.

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"Morde.3158" said:

> > > @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> > > Spectral Ring change is deceptively powerful. It'll strip more stacks of Stability and be a better keep-away skill. Actually locking someone inside the ring is a waste of time, but sitting inside the ring yourself is possibly not horrible.

> > >

> > > Last Gasp is a painful loss, but a necessary one. I always thought this trait was way overbudget as a Master Minor.

> > >

> > > Dark Defiance seems like a very, very good effect. It is a big shame that Soul Comprehension was not touched, though.

> > >

> > > Fear of Death seems like a sleeper hit for Terror builds.

> > >

> > > Removing the chance to critically strike for Spiteful Spirit and Weakening Shroud seems very painful. I have not read the entire list of notes, though, and I think that these passive damage sources being unable to crit may be a gamewide change.

> >

> > who cares about the spectral ring and making those traits noncrit was stupid they don't crit very high at all excluding the chilling nova and chill of death

>

> I'm saddened that they didn't just revamp the skill completely. Either that or make it so Fear (and Taunt) are no longer conditions, so they can only be countered by stability and stun breaks.

To be honest this needs to happen.

On another note Just as taunt locks you to another target, fear should cause you to break target and be unable to target for the duration.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> @"ZDragon.3046"

> - Shroud CD should be affected by the trait that reduce shroud skills CD, honnestly, it work for _sand shroud_, there is no reason that it doesn't for DS and RS.

Technically speaking desert shroud is not the same as Death or Reaper shroud both of which are spectral forms where as desert shroud is not. Im not even sure why the skill is called desert shroud Scourge technically does not have a shroud which is why it does effect the skill. Spectral mastery should have affected Death and Reaper shroud as they were spectral forms but now that that trait is gone i dont even know. I do agree that something should reduce cd entry on death and reaper shroud but it might be better if they just do a base line change for that rather than locking it behind a trait and thats only because of scourge. That this becomes a conflict, keep in mind this would only shave 1.5 seconds off the entry time if you use the current trait for the same purpose

> - No to additionnal strike when you crit with RO. Seriously, no more procs, the necromancer already have to much of those.

My only other suggestion would the modification of a skill within the shroud itself when you take this trait just like with how Lingering Curse works for the scepter.

Reaper's Onslaught

Gain ferocity while in a reaper's shroud. Hitting with Life Reap reduces the recharge of all shroud skills and **Death's Charge** becomes **Despoiled Hunt**.

**Despoiled Hunt** - Shadowstep to your foe and deliver a devastating slash that blinds. This skills recharge is moderately reduced and also inflicts chill if you hit your foe from behind or the side.

> - The necromancer isn't exactly "endurance friendly", I doubt that ANet will change it's stance on this point.

Which is a problem in itself which is why it needs to change. Necro is starting to get faster when we thought it would never be i dont see why stances on other factors cant change also. In pvp it can be a nightmare to not change stances on 1 class when all other classes continue to evolve over time.

> - VP... Ah VP... In fact the idea behind VP bonus is nice but, how do I say, it's probably inappropriate. Honnestly there is a lot of potential in this effect that they added and it promote group play but it might have been better if the bonus had been "selfish" and only increased healing effects that pass throught the shroud by 50% (this would have given more impact to vampirics effect and _unholy sanctuary_. I do not exclude the possibility of this breaking minion's siphons throught the minior _vampiric_)

Even with that idea i don't think it belongs in soul reaping its very odd to me.

> - I don't like the idea of making flesh wurm instant, it goes against the concept of summoning it and switch this skill more toward movement.

You are wrong and right at the same time here.

Part of the skill is movement and you cant ignore that. Its both parts summoning and movement regardless i think it would just be better generally if the movement took priority over the summoning. The skill would have so much more purpose and use if that was the case. Core necromancer really need the mobility remember this is a core skill not a reaper skill or a scourge skill. This is one of the few things that can improve core without overly improving reaper or scourge. There is a massive benefit in skills like Blink and Shadow Step simply because they dont tell a foe where you are going to move to when used.

To be frank the skill should work like this

**Summon flesh wurm** (Instant cast/breaks stun)

Teleport to a target location and Summoning an immobile flesh wurm to attack foes at your previous location.

If the wurm is killed it explodes dealing damage to nearby foes.

**Necrotic Traversal** (also instant but will not break your stun just as spectral recall does not break your stun)

Sacrifice your flesh wurm, teleport to it, and poison foes.

Literally shadow step with a twist while still allowing you to maintain the summoning functionality without directly giving away your break stun or leaving the risk of it getting killed preventing you from using it. Or having a break stun that requires you to wait for a 1 or 1.5 second cast when you suddenly need to get away in a pinch in the case of an extended fight. Or having a path problem when you wonder into an odd spot or simply move too far away from the wurm.

> - Glad you like the idea on the dark fields (this could be generalized to each e-spec, with scourge making fire combo in dark fields, and maybe the next e-spec making poison combo)

I dont know about doing it with each spec though

> - Passive traits: PvP players don't like traits that "proc" they feel that somehow they are cheated by them. Honestly the whole patch was "proc" hate.

In a game where all other professions have the option to easily avoid being hit or avoid damage and control effects via blinds resistance and stability i feel cheated when we get lazy traits like 5% more life force pool increase or a 10% gain from life force sources which really translates to less than 1% on a lot of the things that would actually give you life force. Because the gains are so small you dont feel them when you do or dont take them. Mean while you have others professions running around with minors that do what our optional traits do while they have stronger options to choose between.

Against procs like lesser spinal shivers i can understand. But then again we have a few other professions now that have skills that activate additional strike effects on every attack. You already shot down blocks, shunned evades, and even disliked the idea of more mobility so my question is this.

"What can we have or look forward to improve things aside from QoL dagger fixes and other small stuff similarly that should have been made 2 or 3 years back?"

> - Focus#4: While I wouldn't be against it getting the same treatment than guardian's, I wouldn't be against becoming a more defensive skill either. It could be changed to something called "reaper's mien" granting a frost aura that could be detonated into a frost nova that reap life force to up to 5 foes around you (with a blast finisher of course).

I would rather keep it as an offensive skill for 2 reasons.

Its trait is in the spite line along with axe. Like axe skills it should not be projectile based (the weapons ideally are made to be paired together. )

It should apply vuln to pair with how axe interacts with vuln.

I wont go into a full stat thing but honestly i don't think the trait lines changed much as far as what you would pick for power builds.

Standard spite set up **Spiteful Talisman** bonus damage to foes with no boons **Awaken the Pain** is your best choice here but maybe if by some chance of luck we start seeing alot of fear builds come into play that produce high fear up time in the future **Dread** could be considered but not right now and of course your final choice should always be **Close to death** 20% juicy damage under 50% hp.

Standard Reaper set up **chilling nova** cause nothing else gets you damage in the first choice slot, depending on how much natural crit chance you have your 2nd trait choice could be a mix between **Soul Eater** or **Decimate Defenses** You likely still take **Reapers onslaught** free quickness but mostly for the **bonus ferocity**

My guess would be that you still use soul reaping, the first trait slot does not matter so much but possibly.

**unyielding blast** (although Soul Marks could be useful if you for some reason run staff)

**soul barbs** (you lose 10% damage you had before if you dont take this)

**death perception** for the bonus crit chance in shroud but mostly for the ferocity.

I cant speak on what it would be for a condition build.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> - First suggestion is OP: Perma quickness and ferocity baseline would allow to build tanky while still keeping the damage. No trade off is bad design and OP.

I agree this is not a good idea say remove the quickness from RO trait and cut the base cast times on reaper shroud down by maybe 25%-33% Faster but not quite quickness speeds. RO now deals and additional strike when when you land critical attacks every 0.5 seconds / keep the ferocity bonus

> - Second suggestion is not in line with the necromancer design philosophy. Block isn't something that the necromancer is designed to do, retal isn't fun to play against.

Just give us some endurance regeneration in some way and we wont even need blocks. A little endurance goes a long way and every other profession has this in some form or another. For reaper i suggest deathly chill keep its chill on bleed mechanic and gains, striking a chilled foe grants 2 endurance no icd. (or add this mechanic to chilling victory for 5 endurance per hit but retain the icd. )

>

> First issue: Mainly need to be resolved by some soft QoL change not by OP baseline damage buff.

> - Halve _dark pact_ cast time.

yes

> - Speed up dagger auto chain by reducing some aftercast.

yes

Also Remove the 10% healing bonus form vital and put it on the dagger trait in blood magic, (healing traits have no business in soul reaping) allow this to be the function that is there all the time remove the move speed bonus and place it into one of the many other pointless traits we now have.

> - Reduce flesh wurm summoning cast time from 1.5 second to 1 second.

Make Wurm work like shadow step (no cast time to break a stun ) leaving a wurm in your place Its always going to be stupid imo to make wurm be a telegraphed jump away unless they allow it to break all path rules like mesmers portal did. (it currently does not)

>

> Second issue: The reality is that it is mainly a _stability_ issue.

> - Change _lich form_ from a transform skill on a long CD (150s) to a single effect skill (grim specter) on a lower CD (90s) and add to it stability every second.

At this point i would be fine with that but make the skill slightly stronger as well (pulse faster, or daze foes who brake the link)

>

> However, if they could grant me a random crazy wish, I'd love for _chilling nova_ to be change to a trait that allow reaper's combo in dark fields to be imbued with chilling energy. Adding chill to the projectile generated by combos and giving frost armor if you leap in dark fields. It would be a lot more interesting than the boring chilling explosion every 8 seconds.

This would be really neat.

My wish would be adding fuctionality to the traits they just made lazily over passive Gluttony, Soul battery, Soul comp. The ones that litterally serve no purpose other than slightly more LF that is usually not noticeable at all. These need to do something more!! Dx

Lastly **rework focus skill 4** to just be purely offensive remove its supportive bounce mechanic and allow it to strike one enemy and foes near by for reduced damage over time. Applies vuln generates some life force. Pretty much turns target into a moderate damaging small aoe for a short time. IF initial hit its dodged/blocked then the skill fails. So ideally its a re skin of guardian focus 4 with slight aoe potential a bit weaker in raw damage but provides the necro with some life force utility as well as vuln application.

You got it backwards i think reaper is still ok in pve **for now** but its sustain took a massive hit in pvp with the loss of passive spectral defense and 0 buff to spectral armor after the removal of spectral mastery. Its going to be resorted back into using blighters boon in a niche build or 2 which wont last because its not particularly healthy imo. As soon as people catch onto it the key factor that makes those few builds work will take a hit and reaper will be in the same state as berserker warrior. Ok to play in pve non existent sustain in pvp out classed by other professions ability to kite or be immune to stun while lacking sustain and proper burst damage in a timely manner (compared to other professions)

**Im going to assume when anet said**

Finally, we’re making changes to encourage more variety in boon-based support builds. To start, we are opening up select skills for different professions that will allow them to share boons directly with up to ten allies. **(dont recall reading too many of these in the patch notes yet so its probably not fully implemented)**

Our goal here is to give value to different professions and specializations by making them all adept at applying specific boons to their allies so that multiple professions are needed in order to cover all boons.

That this part I'm guessing was not completed in this patch. Meaning that sooner or later boons across a lot of professions and elite specs are going to be culled down to a handfull per profession or elite spec. If I were to take a direct guess this means that we will see dps drops, sustain drops, and mobility drops possibly depending on what professions get chose to have which boons.

Anet simply couldn't cull boons now that they are out of control on some many professions (mesmer, guardain, ranger, Engi to name the biggest offenders) so now they are going to just cut the boons back on everyone so that each person only is good at applying a niche few.

If my theory is right and they do this i will make pvp and pve alot better. That said it still does not excuse some of their questionable trait changes that they make way too early on, Its not good to push big changes like they did with SR without explaining the full scope as to why they did it.

**"Spectral Mastery was removed due to how its functionality overlapped with what spectral skills already did"** is simply not a good enough explanation as to why the change was made. Based on moments when anet makes changes like this it often means the functionality of something they are working on for the future and not the current functionality which makes me question **"Why not just wait till that time to release the change"** The same can be said for the changes that made up Soul barbs, Soul battery, and the new Sinister Shroud.

Ill be fair i like some... of the changes but then some of them are just questionable **The new vital's healing being in soul reaping at all is very unfitting and super questionable as it literally would have been a perfect trait for blood magic line, the super passive treatment to soul battery not active or noticeable at all, gluttony went back to being rather pointless and passive as well after a change that at least made do a little something.**

Spectral mastery didn't fall into any of the main key points they listed at the start of the patch notes so it seems like it was just done to do something or it was done without full clear explanation.

It might be another 3 or 6 or 9 months be fore they finally release the patch that makes the changes they did to Soul reaping here Make absolute sense and restores the problem.

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

>

> > Its simply a 10% flat boost to healing that you gain this applies to all sources that i tried so far. healing for 400 with this trait heals your for a total of 440 Im thinking blood scourge might use this maybe.... Considering that it works on self healing skills its an ok trait. Im not sure this is the right place for it honestly but its there in sr for now.

> >

>

> I should have better explained myself. I meant why purpose does it serve? It seems really corner case to me so I was asking about its utility. Not about what it did. Like, why would I take this over fear of death? Even ignoring the 100% cap, I see the 15% life force as far more valuable for Builds than extra healing. I'm asking what is it used for? I know what it does, that's extremely clear.

Ahh ok

Putting it like that your question is as good as mine, its out of place. In my personal opinion we lost spectral mastery for no real reason, vital was perfectly fine remaining as an optional choice. Granted its nice now that its a free always have if you pick up soul reaping I still think most of the changes made were really not required or justified. It was just done to say they did something on a line that didn't particularly need those things moved / removed / or shuffled around.

Soul reaping was supposedly suppose to "focuses on Death Shroud, staves and life force. As well as the Enhancement shroud and spectral skills." Which it kind of now does not do to some extents.

I guess the staff trait is still there

It still has some boost to shroud in a way.

It no longer does anything for spectral skills despite it boosting a spectral form.

Healing ideally does not belong here so I understand your confusion.

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > Of course it's low damage when you are applying self weakness with CPC. (and no plague sending isn't helping you because of the enemy's conditions.) This build wasn't designed for WvW roaming. In sPvP where the opponent doesn't have giant 5 acre open areas this build is perfectly lethal and performs but better than the hilariously easy to shutdown onslaught builds.

> > Your build is actually easier to shutdown because it lacks counterpressure and LF generating utility during shroud.

>

> My build has plenty of counterpressure. Please tell me how a enemy is supposed to continue a fight while being drowned in weakness, cripple, chill, and corrupts, with copious amounts of vuln and bleeding to make cleansing the important conditions nearly impossible outside of the tiny number of full clear skills in the game.

Condition clear :astonished: lol Everyone runs that in plentiful amounts. You dont specifically need a full clear when fighting a power reaper you need only need to remove about 3 conditions general, weakness, cripple, chill, and some times blind. Like i said your build is not bad but i do think it can be shut down. With the patch your build has retained its strength where others have not though. That would be the new key factor.

>

> Onslaught Reaper is a poor build, it's out of shroud offensive pressure is worse than my build, and shroud itself is easily counterable by anyone who understands how reaper shroud works. I see a onslaught reaper enter shroud and I press any of my half a dozen corrupts and now they have slow and weakness. I haven't lost any matchups to a onslaught reaper outside of me being horribly outnumbered, and I cannot fathom what people see in the build. Onslaught reaper is effectively dead in the water if the first shroud fails, I would much rather run a blighter's build where I'm not dependent on a easily counterable gimmick to win.

This is purely based on your match up experience and wont be the case for everyone. From my perspective (most of the time) when it comes down to reaper vs reaper its usually who ever enters shroud first or leaves shroud first loses in most cases. Its not specifically about the slow or the weakness. Side note i would refrain from using the words "im not dependent on a gimmick to win" in the same post where you talk about splattering people with weakness and chill for ez sustain :astonished: because that sounds kind of gimmicky don't it? A build is a build there are only a few real gimmicks in this game and i don't consider the majority of them to be on necromancer.

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > At this point blighters boon (outside of this one case) is already out matched by RO the moment quickness got added to RO, blighters boon became highly out classed in terms of weight when choosing between the grand masters.

>

> More like Onslaught needed the pulsing quickness to simply reach the point of being worth considering. Blighter's is not outclassed and is easily the strongest single trait on the entire necromancer class.

>

After yesterdays patch the weight of blighters boon increased dramatically because other means of sustain got thrown out the window. RO is a heavier risk to take in pvp now because of the loss of sustain from spectral defense/ questionable and poor balance execution.

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> I haven't gotten the chance to play with the changes at all. Since I downloaded it and went to sleep before heading to work. To my surprise quite a bit has happened. I'm looking forward to testing some things out. And roaming with a janky minion scourge sound delightful. Since I do roam a lot... Hmm. Mostly I'm interested in seeing if core terror has some niche use. Since terror builds aren't that good but I've been keeping an eye on it. The 15% life force is a massive buffer for core and reaper while giving scourge a free Garish Pillar. Which is great.

>

Sadly anet still has not fixed the fear durations and how that trait works with them. If you take trait for increased fear duration it wont scale them as a base it acts like expertise meaning you cant stack more fear duration on top of that trait it auto caps your duration at 100% meaning any more expertise or fear duration you try to stack on top is simply a waste. Fears are still too short and to few in number to be considered an effective damage tool. Most of them still cap out around 2 seconds if you are lucky some one wont have resistance or stability or some kind of clear that removes it before its full duration >.< Ughhh....

> I'm not sure what to think of Vital persistence. The healing increase is nice. But I'm not sure. If someone could explain this one to me that'd be appreciated.

Its simply a 10% flat boost to healing that you gain this applies to all sources that i tried so far. healing for 400 with this trait heals your for a total of 440 Im thinking blood scourge might use this maybe.... Considering that it works on self healing skills its an ok trait. Im not sure this is the right place for it honestly but its there in sr for now.

>

> The loss of last gasp is pretty major. It's a huge defensive tool for the necromancer. But hopefully we can make up for it with the other changes. I don't think it's a doom and gloom as some might think.

This the most painful for me and its making me question if soul reaping is worth running in pvp right now. The lf sustain factor on reaper after the first time your shroud drops has become drastically bad with no sort of 2nd wind to help you once you burn your active spectral skill or skills you are pretty dry from that point on. Im thinking we might see alot of people go back to spite / blood/ reaper along with taking blighters boon again over RO. Or this is what i plan on trying later.

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > i mean this **** Company, deleted last gasp (because passive lifesavers are OP) while engis and Warriors still jump into their INVULNS over and over again. its a bad joke, what is anets Business with necros. how IMCOMOPETENT CAN ANET BE?

>

> Engineer lost their passive Elixir S trait in favour of one that grants 3k barrier and protection instead.

But they still get something that triggers as a saving trait that grants some sort of damage reduction in a way we lost our ability and 2nd wind to gain life force and thats major to any build that runs soul reaping. Anet really had no place in removing last gasp regardless of what they chose to put there.

you can argue that the new death magic trait that grants protection on cc is suppose to make up for this BUT THAT DOES NOT WORK. And its in a line thats still complete trash. I hate that im forced to run pally reaper now because other wise you simply die far too fast to do anything. Lf generation was considerably crippled in extended fights

Spectral mastery was not a problem none of the spectral skills punished a foe for hitting you with a crowd control like the traits "Mirror of anguish" or "Eye for an Eye" Anet kinda messed us up for what could be the rest of the future for reaper. IMO reaper is in the same satate if not worse than berserker warrior now. It still works in PVE but in PvP its now lacking yet again.

The buffs on spectral walk dont make up for the loss in duration or previous effect cause its bad execution and poorly fitted for the skill. It does not specify damaging conditions or mobility conditions which it should so that it could be a bit stronger (or simply remove 4 conditions upon using recall not letting them run over time passively and still melt you. )

Spectral armor is simply not good enough anymore as a 1 time use skill. (it at least needs 2 charge to make up for the passive one we lost)

Spectral ring needs that interval removed. Fear is already weak enough as it is.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> Shroud is a shroud skill, why isn't it affected by the CD reduction of shroud skills?

Technically it was a spectral form making it a spectral skill but woops that trait went out the window.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> > > Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

> >

> > Correct me if I am wrong but, wasn't Spectral Armour by far the best spectral skill? I felt it was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest in terms of usefulness, so I'm not surprised they didn't add anything.

>

> I think he means with these changes spectral walk etc was compensated for the over all nerf to spectral skills exept spectral armor which got no compensation and just nerfed yet was the best of the lot and now it’s just ok and other spectral skills went from meh to ok

I mean in comparing it to break stun like skill throughout the entire game. Spectral armor was the best of all the spectral skills yes but if you start looking at other skills in the game that are often used to break stun or for a short time reduce damage or improve sustain it was by far one of the weakest.

- You could get stunned > break stun> get stunned right after because no stability

- The protection could be ripped off easily making it so damage was not reduced at all.

- It didnt protect you from conditions at all making it have clear cut counter play.

- It didnt move you at all or stop projectile damage block attacks etc etc you get what i mean it was by far overall a weaker break stun from the start.

Unless that trait that increases LF gain from all sources drastically improves lf gain on weapons reaper is legit screwed without blighters boon. I guess this is their way of indirectly buffing the weight of blighters boon.

They just made SR come back into the meta like a few months ago by all means i saw no reason to do this many changes to it granted some of them were nice they didnt even hit some of the traits that needed tune ups the most **foot in the grave** for one.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

> > Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

>

> To be fair I think _reaper's protection_ change are there to compensate for the loss of _last gasp_. 4s of protection on a 20 second CD when CC and reduced condition damage taken while under the effect of protection... Coming from ANet, I believe that it's already more than they usually are ready to give. (Not that I won't mourn the LF on spectral skills use or _last gasp_)

20 second cool down is not accurate compensation for that in pvp setting to be honest. we are talking about a skill that generated quite a bit of life force on builds that are often starved for life force. to be fair gaining protection on cc is not going to do much good. If they wanted to do that they could have just had spectral activate like balance stance does on warriors.

SOOOOO many little things they could have done to properly compensate for spectral armors loss of the trait and the lesser spectral armor

- can not be critically hit while spectral armor is active

- a few stacks of stability or spectral armors duration

- Base increased time on spectral armor

- a lower cooldown on spectral armor

- charges on spectral armor while reducing the up time to make it more "Active"

Even spectral walk is some what poorly executed imo

In the event you simply dont have conditions up near the start or have to end the skill early you lose out completely while now gaining 0 benefit at least before if you got hit regardless you got something. A better buff would have been movement impairing conditions cannot be applied for its duration promoting the mobility benefit of of taking the skill. of all things we did not need sub par passive condition removal here.

Spectral Ring was a good call and the only good call out of all of this but even thats slightly screwed by a interval application time thats likely longer than the base fear. We didnt see other walls and rings (that are weapon skills no less) that knock back get this treatment im not sure why spectral wall needed to get that for as weak of a condition as fear is.

This is a bit overly annoying to me

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> The current state of reaper and the creation of scourge as a whole is the community getting things it asked for.

i most certainly never asked for a hard cut of spectral armor which was already by far some one of the weaker break stuns in the game granted it didn't grant damage immunity nor did it grant resistance to conditions or give evade frames or stability for that matter. In fact this is one of the worst changes they have done in a long time. Spectral armor got no love after the passive one was removed and the trait was removed implying that anet does not want us to use it because in some way or another it was far too strong.

The only spectral skills i recall being asked for was a buff to spectral wall and that was done almost directly from player community as many people suggested that it be made into a ring or a moving wall. I cant and will never understand the change and removal of the spectral mastery trait and culling spectral armors effectiveness with not compensation. Even spectral walk was some what of a nerf too because we really didnt need condition removal on that skill either. Considering its a skill you can end early you might not even get the full benefit of the condition removal and now you dont get the lf from getting hit either.

That said some of the traits are understandable and justified but the spectral mastery and the majoiry of the spectral changes no one effing asked for.

i love how anet MISSED THE ONE SPECTRAL SKILL THAT PEOPLE USE THE MOST....

Spectral armor got no love at the loss of the trait that increased its effectiveness how do you miss the most important spectral skill after removing the trait for them

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> why necromancer is one of the lowest DPS profession in the game?

> - Necromancers specs mainly favor AoE.

> - Necromancers condition builds have potential in condition damage tied to corruption.

> - Necromancers have a way to mitigate damage that do not prevent them from dealing damage.

I would agree if we didnt see other professions that

- Also favor aoe but deal considerably potential higher damage while not being punished for fighting single targets as well.

- Have condition builds that ramp much faster without being tied to corruption and outshine a necros potential with perfect corruption rng

- Have ways to completely avoid damage that dont prevent them from doing damage.

So to be fair its still a question of why some parts of necro are so under tooled.

I would rather have more stability and upfront damage on a core level than more projectile hate tbh we dont particularly need more projectile hate CPC is more than enough and no one uses it because we dont need it that bad.

At this point blighters boon (outside of this one case) is already out matched by RO the moment quickness got added to RO, blighters boon became highly out classed in terms of weight when choosing between the grand masters.

If by some chance blighters boon gets nerfed very hard we will simply see people continue to use RO anyways. It hardly matters at this point.

I dont really see a problem here I still find boon bot beast and mirage to be far more busted in pvp than this combo you came up with because it can be stopped. Just because you are gaining alot of life force, might, and possibly healing on entry its not enough that makes you intsa gimp people. Its also not going to have constant up time pressure and you can still be shut down like most other necor builds, kite cc, damage immunity skills, etc. Not only that you will see a massive drop in your burst due to not having quickness.

I'll admit Crinn its a good idea and concept and its not that it cant work but its not going to be the best options. I find a standard spectral armor setup far more useful than this setup tbh.