ZDragon.3046

Really what needs to happen here is these particularly minions should not be able to take damage or very much damage at all by normal means. They should only take realistic damage when the summoner takes damage outside of their normal decay.

They possibly have their auto attacks removed and traded for explosion on death instead so that they simply follow the necro or the necros target around un till they die in which they go boom.

These minons need to be pretty resistant to being attacked directly because it defeats their purpose and mechanic if a single weapon skill can kill them as soon as they spawn ontop of the decay time damage + damage the necro takes its really heavily weighted in risk over beneficial reward even when you stack it with death magic thats a whole nother conversation though. Overall this shout is bad. IF it had more than 1 charge it could be ok as is but with it being a 1 shot utility that provides not life force, little damage, and questionable rules that work against its main intent as damage reduction its just not good.

Shouts are one of the few things reaper still has on its list that are less than ok in my opinion "rise" and "nothing can save you" are the worst two with "your soul is mine" being put in 3rd place

rise, Fix the minions summoned or give it more than 1 charge

Nothing can save you, Add 3s reveal when hits more than 1 charge here might be questionable but not a bad idea

Suffer has use even if its only got 1 charge (should have 2 imo)

You are all weaklings has use with 1 charge (should have 2 imo over the damage increase it go)

Chilled to the bone is solid as is

Shouts in general across almost all professions except the recent warrior need some looking into.

I think a fair number of shouts across reaper and tempest would be ok with having 2 charges like many of the warrior ones do now.

> @"felincyriac.5981" said:

> Man the "...all the necromancer specializations have a healthy representation in competitive game modes." is pretty concerning tbh, will we just be seeing dmg% inc to irrelevant skills and tooltip fixes from now on?

When it comes to reaper and scourge yes....

when it comes to core necro probably not To be fair reaper is by far in a great spot for what it is. It could use a few quality of life changes like the removal of its quickness boon for just a flat increase in speed in reaper shroud at baseline and maybe some shouts have 2 charges other than that its solid as is.

The the weakness of scourge and reaper generally come from core necromancer and thats where we will see the biggest changes that have bigger impacts on reaper and scourge. For example the changes to Soul reaping recently etc.

Ideally reaper is at a point where its near its peek and to buff it more would mean that when and if core finally gets its rework or heavily quality of life improvements reaper would need to be nerfed at the same time or soon after as a result.

Scourge is kind of a different story imo its just a mess but thats just my personal opinion

__> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Methuselah.4376" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > We have to wait how Herald of Sorrow will work. But in general Scourge is now the master of delayed impact, which is not fun to play at all.

> > >

> > > Regarding Power Reaper: ANet tries really hard to not give it too much damage. We will end with a flat 30k now - god forbit 31 or even 30,5 while everyone else is doing 35. It's ridiculous.

> >

> > If my calculations are correct, the extra 5% on the current benchmark will put us at 30.6k and that's not factoring the, albeit laughable, buff to Nightfall.

>

> But, we are loosing power from banners

because benchmarks on perfect scenarios where your mind has nothing else to focus on..... matter so much in every mode

Balance is not always going to be based around a perfect situation dps number you guys :astonished:

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > • Enfeebling Blood: Increased the amount of bleeding stacks that this skill applies from 2 to 3.

> > >

> > > Does that mean Lesser Enfeeble also get the buff ??

> >

> > Probably not otherwise its not considered lesser lol

>

> But the Spinal Shivers and Lesser Spinal Shivers are the same other than less Damage and Cannot Critically Hit

>

> and TBH i wont consider any lesser in the game as lesser but as a better and much easier way to use that skill passively

Some skills are lesser because they dont share the same cooldowns, damage, conditions applied, etc. In one of these ways the skill is usually lesser.

Spinal shivers was one of those few skills that slipped through the cracks when anet made the whole change of labeling skills as a lesser skills. Rangers muddy terrane is another skill that is slipped through the cracks, same number of pulses, same cooldown, etc.

Ideally anet didn't intend for the skills to feel like they are better than the actual skill and depending on how said trait skills are triggered some times they come off that way. For necros when a foe got to 50% getting hit with a critical passive spinal shiver usually in most cases ended the fight and thats why people grew to hate it so much.

To be honest 1 more bleed stack on the lesser version of enfeebling prob wont make a difference in any way shape or form in competitive modes Heck even 1 more stack on the active skill probably wont matter much. The skill is still slow and clunky and thats what annoys me. They really should turn that skill into a mark. tbh

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> PvP wise, I think the change that will have the greatest impact is the change on "you are all weaklings!". It will make the already somewhat good aristocratie reaper better.

> PvE wise, I guess we can expect some chill output from druids which could make the _cold shoulder_ buff reliable. That is, if druids survive to this patch in PvE.

>

> _Herald of sorrow_ sound strange, I wonder how it will affect "while in shroud" trait effects. Does this mean that desert shroud will now have a 3 second duration on a 30 second CD? That would be plain awful...

I dont see people using this unless the delayed bomb effect is soooo over tuned that its utterly stupid if it hits.

HOWEVER knowing necro history i have feeling that this will be one of those traits that comes with massive risk to use and the reward is lesser than the risk it forces onto the necromancer.

I wish scourge had started with this rather than getting it now after all I did say that the whole point of shades were basic aoe and that I would have liked to se more variation to them other than just a size increase... Its weird that they are doing this now though......

I simply cant see people taking it over a pulsing aoe effect unless its literally insta melting levels of conditions and corrupts being applied when it hits in which case how long will it exists before being nerfed.

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> • Enfeebling Blood: Increased the amount of bleeding stacks that this skill applies from 2 to 3.

>

> Does that mean Lesser Enfeeble also get the buff ??

Probably not otherwise its not considered lesser lol

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"felincyriac.5981" said:

> > Overall pretty meh changes, and even worse they think all necro specs are doing fine in competitive mode so RIP core necro

>

> Of course they do! The necromancer is one of the only profession that already resigned itself to not try aimelessly to be a duellist wanabe. As long as he got it's nanny the necromancer is really doing fine in competitive gamemode. And this kind of gameplay is probably what ANet see as "healthy" for the game. It's the overperforming duellists that aren't healthy for a cooperative game like guild wars 2.

^ kind of this

I Dueling professions should exsist but should not be over rewarded or over powered or able to perform the roles or feats that none duelist professions are suppose to be performing.

That said i would still like a dueling spec on necro but meh i dont want something thats at mesmer levels in terms of power no class should be at that level or that rewarded for in a pve or competitive setting.

> @"Klypto.1703" said:

> Those balance changes posted do not reflect a healthy status of the game still feels like maintenance mode is coming.

Actually he scrapper changes were really good

The mesmer changes showed that people were actually still actively looking at things

The rest were kinda meh so so ok changes

I dont think its safe to say nothing bad can be judged by those notes.

That said the choices for most of those notes were probably figured out long before anet knew this was coming.

> @"OniGiri.9461" said:

> what about raids? :( :( :(

pretty sure you will still get a raid every other living world story just as its been doing thus far. 1 story = 1 new fractal the next story = 1 new raid wing i wouldnt worry about that at all. ;)

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I think this goes to a deeper question: If necro does have the tools on all specs to kick people's butts, then why should it get a good disengage toolset as well? I mean, let's be honest here, deficiencies exist on the classes, and for good reason. I'm thinking that if the kick butt toolset is that good, then other aspects of Necro should provide fair matchups for opponents; mobility and sustain are clearly two areas where that could happen. In otherwords, if your tools excel at committing you in a fight with good chance of success, other things need not be that good to balance this out.

Because other specs have things like blocks, evades, and invuln to stay incombat while having tools to also kick necros but :P Burst meta. teehee!

But looking at the entire statement you have listed above this means possibly one or two things. From your perspective necro does not have the tools to kick other professions buts properly

or

Other professions need to loose some of their sustain tools because they also have the tools to kick other professions butts thus they should not have things that keep their buts from getting kicked..... (i might be completely wrong for even saying this lol just stay with me)

>

> Personally, I think I would prefer necro to have strong offensive capability and I believe that should be it's focus. I can only think that adding 'fringe' abilities only makes the case weaker for maintaining the class identity.

Core

- slightly lacks in offensive capability but is by far the most tanky of the 3 specs. Dependent on conditioning foes reduce and sustain their incoming damage damage output and be more mobile than they are.

Reaper

- Great offensive capability but its sustain takes a hit as a result, Yet still lacks greater chasing capability, still dependent on conditioning foes to make them slow enough to catch.

Scourge

- Decent offensive capability via conditions considering that this is partly a support spec, sustain is questionable depending on the build the user chooses, Great zone pressure and aoe cleave via shades. Also a good boon manager. Also dependent on conditioning foes to be more mobile than they are.

In short class identity is soaking damage through hp (lacks traits and tools on boosting this effect) while conditioning foes down to be weaker than they are on on the same footing as them. How ever in a game where movement skills are not effected by hindering conditions anymore, Condi clense is a must in generous amounts, and its main cc fear is the weakest hard cc in the game due to how many counters it has via break stun, stab, resistance, and condi clear. on a profession that lacks a way to get itself out of trouble block off incoming damage well..... now we have a problem we are stuck in the middle of the great question. What should necro get to make it better more offensive tools or more defensive ones for things like disengage. This is the million dollar question we all want the answer XD.

Granted..... a sudden surprise necro in to the middle of a fight usually wins the fight because an unnoticed necro is a deadly one. So maybe thats the key.

;) stealthnecro2020 increase your deadly surprise effectiveness entering combat by no less than 5 times.... Vote Now! This add was supported and paid for by the Black Lion Trading Company.... Lol.

Or maybe just a lil short jaunt like blink with a break target that might actually help too. then again its hard line trying to figure out what out right disengage worthy and whats something to help you stay in the fight.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

>

> > The goal here was idea on helping generate money for the game in a way thats not forced on people and thats not locking people out of something that you cant pretty much access or get without it.

> If so, then I don't understand the point. If ANet were to offer such a model, then why would anyone want to sub it? Unfortunately, any type of subscription-based model by it's very nature will lock people out of whatever is offered by the subscription.

>

hmmm some for support some for the bonus perks i guess...

What you say is true its a yes or no option how ever there are good ways of doing optional subs and bad ways of doing it or so thats how i like to think.

I personally feel like something optional should be "nice" but not needed nor should it make you better than anyone else playing the game be it through stat bonuses better skills or traits or gear. It should not hand out free things that buffer those things either.

Thats why i don't like the idea something such as a map that only said people can access with free mat nodes and map currency etc. Why should some one get free magic find, damage, items and mats, etc. just for paying some cash i never agree with things like this in any case. Ideally the things that are offered you should never be able to look at some one in game and know if they have it or not if that makes any sense.

Ive seen a few games do really scummy things just to promote an optional sub when realistically the game is borderline unplayable without said sub because of so many "convenient" *air quotes* yet inconvenient obstacles that can be removed with a low fee. Simply put they pay wall he heck out of the game to make things so inconvenient that its not really an optional thing except to the most tolerant of players thats what any optional subs should try to avoid imo. Its optional but at every turn its going to feel like you need to have it because of how inconvenient so many things are. Gw2 does not really and wouldn't really have this problem because so many things are already pretty convenient for the most part. But if people are gonna pay to support optionally the perks should still be some what nice.

Even if its optional you cant offer up garbage sadly people always expect something out of the deal.

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > > > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > > > > > > ESO, WoW and Final Fantasy all have some form subscription model. And by all accounts all are doing better than GW2. But sure lets keep pretending this status quo works and keep telling ourselves that any form of subscription is whats gonna kill the game.

> > > > > > ESO might be doing better only because its shown a road map with progressing content that looks promising to players

> > > > > > Wow... no... just no.... Do not even mention this game or its models and ideals here unless you are talking about wow everone knew about 6 years ago.

> > > > > > Final Fantasy probably doing fairly better yes i dont know though but I have not heard people complaining about the game much

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **What anet can not do**

> > > > > > If its forced that means the game dies because a lot of people who play now are not going to suddenly feel that its fair that they need to be forced to pay to play the game thats out right unfair and devious to do to players. Personally if anet suddenly said I needed to pay to play I would probably only play 1 month after new content came out and for the rest of the time I would cut my losses and un sub.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **What anet could do**

> > > > > > A subscription model could help generate money for gw2 but it needs to be fairly close to ESO's model offering benefits that don't particularly make you better than another player in terms of status aka pay to win. All of the benefits offered need to feel like a nice to have not a must have. More importantly **it would need to be 100% optional** and not required.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A subscription for GW2 huh.... lets just look at a few things anet could do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Free waypoint transit**

> > > > > > - Travel the world for free no cost on way points for subbed users.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Instant access to all living story content**

> > > > > > - If you don't happen to have it unlocked congrats now you do.

> > > > > > - Once played through its completely unlocked on your account forever even if you un sub.

> > > > > > - xpacks would need to be considered here however. Possibly subbed users can buy them greatly discounted or something idk

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Gold fed transmutation Converter**

> > > > > > - Need transmutation charges simply insert a gold coin and get a Transmutation charge, feel free to edit your fashion wars 2 style more freely and as frequently as you want.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Stat Converter**

> > > > > > - Allows players to change stats on all gear from rare to ascended with a small gold fee based on the armor quality **(25 silver up to 1 gold per item)**

> > > > > > - While this does devalue legendary weapon/ amor perks of being able to stat change for free a bit if you want those perks without the sub simply get the legendary weapons and armor they would still have value here in addition to their shiny features.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Bank access from inventory**

> > > > > > - Yes this devalues the black lion chest bank access item but hey i don't see much wrong with that if you still want it without doing an optional subscription its there for you. thus it still has value.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Black Lion Premium Express**

> > > > > > - No longer will you have to find a black lion merchant to pick up your items bought on the TP they will simply be delivered to you via black lion mail express free of charge. Gnashblade is here to support you and your every day needs. Vote Evon Gnashblade Today!!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Mini Mistic forge access**

> > > > > > - Allows players to use the forge from anywhere in the game right from their inventory.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **Gems**

> > > > > > - Get a set amount of gems = to the subscription cost each time you pay.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > These are just a few examples in my head that most players would probably enjoy but things that wont make players who don't sub feel like they lesser or specifically need to sub. All the above things could be considered nice to haves but not must haves. Some of these ideas might come off to people as Must haves but if you are going to pay for a few perks that wont increase your damage / skill or give you a direct advantage gameplay wise they should be some what nice perks imo.

> > > > >

> > > > > Free waypoint transit would be an okay thing for a special member subscription.

> > > > >

> > > > > Most the other stuff doesn't really work exception the gems thing. I think a subscription could come with some gems each month, obviously less than what it would be if you just used the money to straight up buy them. Or they could just get a percentage discount on gems for as long as they are subbed.

> > > > >

> > > > You will have to explain to me how the other stuff couldn't work you make simple buttons to press in the inventory tab that only work for subbed users for most of it. Like any time bank access or any time forge access should be be easily doable. About the only one thats really questionable is the transmutation charges.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > There could be a hub similar to the passes you can get, but have it have some daily gathering nodes that rotate what they are every two weeks or something or something as well, nothing that would create an imbalance in the game's economy, but just like a small added thing. Maybe each month can come with a "members gift box" that can be opened up and has a choice of things like map currencies or something.

> > > > There really is no point of this

> > > > - guild halls

> > > > - home instances

> > > > Both of which really invalidate the wroth of something like this. This is also considered some what pay to win and ill get to that in a second

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If you make the benefits of the sub too much you are going into pay-to-win territory and I don't want that for this game.

> > > > Its not about having too much benefits really its about the type of benefits you get and thats what makes something a nice to have vs a must have aka pay to win.

> > > > If a game does the following its pay to win

> > > > - only gives you 10 inventory slots and says get 45 with a sub.

> > > > - locks you out certain races or classes but lets you get them with a sub.

> > > > - limits the amount of gold and or mats you can access despite you earning them fair and square you cant access them without some kind of special tool or going to some out of the way area which the game may or may not limit via cash shop.

> > > > - gives away mats and or currency for for free (even more so if its good mats or currency and you know because people are playing money they expect it to be decent)

> > > > - you get a better class options that is otherwise not available for play

> > > >

> > > > Pay to win means by paying you get something that increases your stats or ease of obtaining mats/nodes and or gold which can later be converted into better gear and or progression or when not being subbed stalls or limits the gear or progression. IF it being subbed cuts 50% of cost or time what you need to get a said god item or reach a set point in progression then thats pay to win.

> > > > Nothing I listed does that which is why I listed those things. Listing something that gives mats away for free or map currency away for free **is going into pay to win territory** I think you are the one who has it backwards here.

> > > >

> > > > Ideally having things like bank access or the power to swap your stats on gear or the power to use the forge at any time is not pay to win in anyway

> > > > - You still need to buy or earn the gear on your own you dont simply go from blues to ascended if thats what you were thinking.

> > > > - You still need to earn mats to throw in the forge on your own being able to access it just makes it usable you don't simply get free loot out of it.

> > > > - Having bank access does nothing really special for you aside from letting you stash / withdraw some items on the fly, you can already access banks at crafting stations and deposit mats at any time from anywhere in the world. I dont see this as a broken issue.

> > > >

> > > > I think the only real argument you could have here is the idea for transmutation charges but thats about it really.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Because 99% of those things already exist as in-game items. Permanent contracts already exist, the mystic forge conduit is already a thing (and is dirt cheap to make).

> > > I could *maybe* see the monthly sub come with a one month version of the permanent contracts so they expire and you get new ones each month you are subbed.

> > Did you not read the part where i pointed those things out and literally gave a reason as to why they would still have use

> > If you want unlimited bank access without said sub then you have the option of getting it via x item thus the items still has value. Its not gated away from anyone and thats what makes the idea of using those things as a sub option none pay to win. Because the features you get rom the sub are still available in some way to all players.

> >

> > >

> > > Stat swapping gear at any time without having to use the mystic forge is a legendary armor thing. And saying "look you can just buy the equivalent of legendary armor with $$$$ now" would be a huge middle finger to the entire raiding community and is just a massive NO from me.

> > How is this a middle finger to raiding community??? NO WHERE in my text did you see me say anything about giving out legendary armor for $$$ stop trying to twist my words around please. im almost sure not everyone gets legendary armor and weapons for stat swap while no doubt some do im 100% sure thats not the case for everyone. lets just split that in thirds and say its 33% of people

> > - 33% want stat swap on the fly

> > - 33% want shiny looks and or projectile effects

> > - 33% want it just to say they have it regardless if they use it or not its a achievement thing.

> >

> > You have the right to not agree but i dont agree with you as it being a pay to win thing. Stat swapping is not that big of a deal imo. Once again if you what that option without a sub thats what the legendary armor is for thus giving it its own value still its not removing its value in anyway because the whole point of this idea was an optional sub there will be people who WILL NOT and mean WILL NOT EVER consider paying for a sub even if its optional. For that reason perma bank items and legendary armor still provides purpose for those who wish to not pay anything. I dont see the problem here. You are making it sound like im talking about giving out legendary armor for free and i assure you thats not the case. If anything you were the one who wanted to give out free mats and currency for monthly price not me.

> >

> > > And if you still have to buy the items from Miyani/the TP and use a mystic forge to stat swap, well you really are not getting much more convenience than just going to mistlock/a potential new hub to stat swap.

> > Says who i never mentioned that ;) you just threw that part in. IT could just be a button click you know..... like that shiny armor. lol.

> >

> > >

> > > A new quickly-accessed area with some permanent daily nodes is not going to invalidate home instances or guild halls. People will still go to them, just like home instances and guild halls haven't stopped people from going to the open-world permanent gathering nodes daily.

> >

> > You got this backwards again.... i never said it would invalidate them. I said that they would invalidate that bonus area furthermore you are locking people who don't sub out of free loot thats pay to win by the way again... So my idea gives the raid community a middle finger.... which you can still get without this sub idea via legendary armor or by buying the classic items and using the forge....... mean while your idea is to lock out everyone in the game who does not pay this optional sub for free loot and give them the middle finger... nice.... ;)

> >

> > Im not going to argue this with you cause it probably wont ever happen there is no point in getting all steamy over it you can agree to not agree with the idea and thats fine. The goal here was idea on helping generate money for the game in a way thats not forced on people.

>

> You're sarcastic, passive-aggressive tone and emoticons are not appreciated or helpful for discussion. So this is going to be the last thing I say to you.

>

> I wasn't saying you said that pert about still needing to buy items, I was expanding on the idea of how one could give stat swapping to people and then refuting the idea before it could go further.

> And you seem to be reinforcing that you want your suggestion of stat swapping to be just clicking it like legendary armor. And I repeat: NO. That would be a huge mistake. People worked hard to get legendary armor, one of the armour's major draws is the ability to stat swap whenever you want to without having to go buy things and use a forge. You would be taking one of the major rewards that takes long hours of raiding and just hand it out to people for $$$. That would not end well. The community would be in an uproar.

This is text how ever you take the "tone" of text on a screen is how you want to perceive it in your own head first off.

I already said you could agree to disagree so we can just leave it be. I responded to what you typed I didn't reinforce anything you assumed it wouldn't be a certain way and I assumed it would be and thats just where we ended up this is what assuming does ideally my words are a result of your words and things go back and forth from there. As i said there is no point in getting heated about this really :astonished:

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > > > > ESO, WoW and Final Fantasy all have some form subscription model. And by all accounts all are doing better than GW2. But sure lets keep pretending this status quo works and keep telling ourselves that any form of subscription is whats gonna kill the game.

> > > > ESO might be doing better only because its shown a road map with progressing content that looks promising to players

> > > > Wow... no... just no.... Do not even mention this game or its models and ideals here unless you are talking about wow everone knew about 6 years ago.

> > > > Final Fantasy probably doing fairly better yes i dont know though but I have not heard people complaining about the game much

> > > >

> > > > **What anet can not do**

> > > > If its forced that means the game dies because a lot of people who play now are not going to suddenly feel that its fair that they need to be forced to pay to play the game thats out right unfair and devious to do to players. Personally if anet suddenly said I needed to pay to play I would probably only play 1 month after new content came out and for the rest of the time I would cut my losses and un sub.

> > > >

> > > > **What anet could do**

> > > > A subscription model could help generate money for gw2 but it needs to be fairly close to ESO's model offering benefits that don't particularly make you better than another player in terms of status aka pay to win. All of the benefits offered need to feel like a nice to have not a must have. More importantly **it would need to be 100% optional** and not required.

> > > >

> > > > A subscription for GW2 huh.... lets just look at a few things anet could do.

> > > >

> > > > **Free waypoint transit**

> > > > - Travel the world for free no cost on way points for subbed users.

> > > >

> > > > **Instant access to all living story content**

> > > > - If you don't happen to have it unlocked congrats now you do.

> > > > - Once played through its completely unlocked on your account forever even if you un sub.

> > > > - xpacks would need to be considered here however. Possibly subbed users can buy them greatly discounted or something idk

> > > >

> > > > **Gold fed transmutation Converter**

> > > > - Need transmutation charges simply insert a gold coin and get a Transmutation charge, feel free to edit your fashion wars 2 style more freely and as frequently as you want.

> > > >

> > > > **Stat Converter**

> > > > - Allows players to change stats on all gear from rare to ascended with a small gold fee based on the armor quality **(25 silver up to 1 gold per item)**

> > > > - While this does devalue legendary weapon/ amor perks of being able to stat change for free a bit if you want those perks without the sub simply get the legendary weapons and armor they would still have value here in addition to their shiny features.

> > > >

> > > > **Bank access from inventory**

> > > > - Yes this devalues the black lion chest bank access item but hey i don't see much wrong with that if you still want it without doing an optional subscription its there for you. thus it still has value.

> > > >

> > > > **Black Lion Premium Express**

> > > > - No longer will you have to find a black lion merchant to pick up your items bought on the TP they will simply be delivered to you via black lion mail express free of charge. Gnashblade is here to support you and your every day needs. Vote Evon Gnashblade Today!!!

> > > >

> > > > **Mini Mistic forge access**

> > > > - Allows players to use the forge from anywhere in the game right from their inventory.

> > > >

> > > > **Gems**

> > > > - Get a set amount of gems = to the subscription cost each time you pay.

> > > >

> > > > These are just a few examples in my head that most players would probably enjoy but things that wont make players who don't sub feel like they lesser or specifically need to sub. All the above things could be considered nice to haves but not must haves. Some of these ideas might come off to people as Must haves but if you are going to pay for a few perks that wont increase your damage / skill or give you a direct advantage gameplay wise they should be some what nice perks imo.

> > >

> > > Free waypoint transit would be an okay thing for a special member subscription.

> > >

> > > Most the other stuff doesn't really work exception the gems thing. I think a subscription could come with some gems each month, obviously less than what it would be if you just used the money to straight up buy them. Or they could just get a percentage discount on gems for as long as they are subbed.

> > >

> > You will have to explain to me how the other stuff couldn't work you make simple buttons to press in the inventory tab that only work for subbed users for most of it. Like any time bank access or any time forge access should be be easily doable. About the only one thats really questionable is the transmutation charges.

> >

> >

> > > There could be a hub similar to the passes you can get, but have it have some daily gathering nodes that rotate what they are every two weeks or something or something as well, nothing that would create an imbalance in the game's economy, but just like a small added thing. Maybe each month can come with a "members gift box" that can be opened up and has a choice of things like map currencies or something.

> > There really is no point of this

> > - guild halls

> > - home instances

> > Both of which really invalidate the wroth of something like this. This is also considered some what pay to win and ill get to that in a second

> >

> > >

> > > If you make the benefits of the sub too much you are going into pay-to-win territory and I don't want that for this game.

> > Its not about having too much benefits really its about the type of benefits you get and thats what makes something a nice to have vs a must have aka pay to win.

> > If a game does the following its pay to win

> > - only gives you 10 inventory slots and says get 45 with a sub.

> > - locks you out certain races or classes but lets you get them with a sub.

> > - limits the amount of gold and or mats you can access despite you earning them fair and square you cant access them without some kind of special tool or going to some out of the way area which the game may or may not limit via cash shop.

> > - gives away mats and or currency for for free (even more so if its good mats or currency and you know because people are playing money they expect it to be decent)

> > - you get a better class options that is otherwise not available for play

> >

> > Pay to win means by paying you get something that increases your stats or ease of obtaining mats/nodes and or gold which can later be converted into better gear and or progression or when not being subbed stalls or limits the gear or progression. IF it being subbed cuts 50% of cost or time what you need to get a said god item or reach a set point in progression then thats pay to win.

> > Nothing I listed does that which is why I listed those things. Listing something that gives mats away for free or map currency away for free **is going into pay to win territory** I think you are the one who has it backwards here.

> >

> > Ideally having things like bank access or the power to swap your stats on gear or the power to use the forge at any time is not pay to win in anyway

> > - You still need to buy or earn the gear on your own you dont simply go from blues to ascended if thats what you were thinking.

> > - You still need to earn mats to throw in the forge on your own being able to access it just makes it usable you don't simply get free loot out of it.

> > - Having bank access does nothing really special for you aside from letting you stash / withdraw some items on the fly, you can already access banks at crafting stations and deposit mats at any time from anywhere in the world. I dont see this as a broken issue.

> >

> > I think the only real argument you could have here is the idea for transmutation charges but thats about it really.

> >

> >

>

> Because 99% of those things already exist as in-game items. Permanent contracts already exist, the mystic forge conduit is already a thing (and is dirt cheap to make).

> I could *maybe* see the monthly sub come with a one month version of the permanent contracts so they expire and you get new ones each month you are subbed.

Did you not read the part where i pointed those things out and literally gave a reason as to why they would still have use

If you want unlimited bank access without said sub then you have the option of getting it via x item thus the items still has value. Its not gated away from anyone and thats what makes the idea of using those things as a sub option none pay to win. Because the features you get rom the sub are still available in some way to all players.

>

> Stat swapping gear at any time without having to use the mystic forge is a legendary armor thing. And saying "look you can just buy the equivalent of legendary armor with $$$$ now" would be a huge middle finger to the entire raiding community and is just a massive NO from me.

How is this a middle finger to raiding community??? NO WHERE in my text did you see me say anything about giving out legendary armor for $$$ stop trying to twist my words around please. im almost sure not everyone gets legendary armor and weapons for stat swap while no doubt some do im 100% sure thats not the case for everyone. lets just split that in thirds and say its 33% of people

- 33% want stat swap on the fly

- 33% want shiny looks and or projectile effects

- 33% want it just to say they have it regardless if they use it or not its a achievement thing.

You have the right to not agree but i dont agree with you as it being a pay to win thing. Stat swapping is not that big of a deal imo. Once again if you what that option without a sub thats what the legendary armor is for thus giving it its own value still its not removing its value in anyway because the whole point of this idea was an optional sub there will be people who WILL NOT and mean WILL NOT EVER consider paying for a sub even if its optional. For that reason perma bank items and legendary armor still provides purpose for those who wish to not pay anything. I dont see the problem here. You are making it sound like im talking about giving out legendary armor for free and i assure you thats not the case. If anything you were the one who wanted to give out free mats and currency for monthly price not me.

> And if you still have to buy the items from Miyani/the TP and use a mystic forge to stat swap, well you really are not getting much more convenience than just going to mistlock/a potential new hub to stat swap.

Says who i never mentioned that ;) you just threw that part in. IT could just be a button click you know..... like that shiny armor. lol.

>

> A new quickly-accessed area with some permanent daily nodes is not going to invalidate home instances or guild halls. People will still go to them, just like home instances and guild halls haven't stopped people from going to the open-world permanent gathering nodes daily.

You got this backwards again.... i never said it would invalidate them. I said that they would invalidate that bonus area furthermore you are locking people who don't sub out of free loot thats pay to win by the way again... So my idea gives the raid community a middle finger.... which you can still get without this sub idea via legendary armor or by buying the classic items and using the forge....... mean while your idea is to lock out everyone in the game who does not pay this optional sub for free loot and give them the middle finger... nice.... ;)

Im not going to argue this with you cause it probably wont ever happen there is no point in getting all steamy over it you can agree to not agree with the idea and thats fine. The goal here was idea on helping generate money for the game in a way thats not forced on people and thats not locking people out of something that you cant pretty much access or get without it. Everything i listed can be gained in the for the most part without the idea of a sub in some way or another and wont give you free mats or items for that matter.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Don't understand the desire to 'disengage' all the time. Rather have some tools to kick someone's kitten instead of running away like a loser.

Necro has the tools to kick butt actually on just about all specs

What it does not have is the ability to do it 3-5 times consistently in an extended fight in some cases *cough* mesmer..... who will get 5-6 attempts to burst you dead before they run out of defensive tools they chain together and become vulnerable. In those situations you need to run because if you fight and the person knows what they are doing you cannot win that fight alone and if you try its a sever uphill battle.

Its not impossible but some times its better to cut your losses and run. Not to mention necro excels in team damage / offensive pressure with low mobility and cc resistance thus its often targeted first a good team will call target on the necro to get it killed asap and as a necro player i almost always know when some one has a player on the enemy team smart enough to do it. Everyone suddenly goes for you like they are about to win a 1600 gem gift card if they down you. In those moments you need to be able to get away.

That said.... for me its usually speed of shadows + relentless pursuit + rune of speed. This does the job in most cases. You would be surprised how many people don't use rune of speed and it does make a massive difference when people are trying to chase you down. Even mesmers will often have a tough time catching me if they don't have blink off cool down.

Spectral walk is optional but you have to be clever with it to make it work even then it dose not always work.

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"kasoki.5180" said:

> > > ESO, WoW and Final Fantasy all have some form subscription model. And by all accounts all are doing better than GW2. But sure lets keep pretending this status quo works and keep telling ourselves that any form of subscription is whats gonna kill the game.

> > ESO might be doing better only because its shown a road map with progressing content that looks promising to players

> > Wow... no... just no.... Do not even mention this game or its models and ideals here unless you are talking about wow everone knew about 6 years ago.

> > Final Fantasy probably doing fairly better yes i dont know though but I have not heard people complaining about the game much

> >

> > **What anet can not do**

> > If its forced that means the game dies because a lot of people who play now are not going to suddenly feel that its fair that they need to be forced to pay to play the game thats out right unfair and devious to do to players. Personally if anet suddenly said I needed to pay to play I would probably only play 1 month after new content came out and for the rest of the time I would cut my losses and un sub.

> >

> > **What anet could do**

> > A subscription model could help generate money for gw2 but it needs to be fairly close to ESO's model offering benefits that don't particularly make you better than another player in terms of status aka pay to win. All of the benefits offered need to feel like a nice to have not a must have. More importantly **it would need to be 100% optional** and not required.

> >

> > A subscription for GW2 huh.... lets just look at a few things anet could do.

> >

> > **Free waypoint transit**

> > - Travel the world for free no cost on way points for subbed users.

> >

> > **Instant access to all living story content**

> > - If you don't happen to have it unlocked congrats now you do.

> > - Once played through its completely unlocked on your account forever even if you un sub.

> > - xpacks would need to be considered here however. Possibly subbed users can buy them greatly discounted or something idk

> >

> > **Gold fed transmutation Converter**

> > - Need transmutation charges simply insert a gold coin and get a Transmutation charge, feel free to edit your fashion wars 2 style more freely and as frequently as you want.

> >

> > **Stat Converter**

> > - Allows players to change stats on all gear from rare to ascended with a small gold fee based on the armor quality **(25 silver up to 1 gold per item)**

> > - While this does devalue legendary weapon/ amor perks of being able to stat change for free a bit if you want those perks without the sub simply get the legendary weapons and armor they would still have value here in addition to their shiny features.

> >

> > **Bank access from inventory**

> > - Yes this devalues the black lion chest bank access item but hey i don't see much wrong with that if you still want it without doing an optional subscription its there for you. thus it still has value.

> >

> > **Black Lion Premium Express**

> > - No longer will you have to find a black lion merchant to pick up your items bought on the TP they will simply be delivered to you via black lion mail express free of charge. Gnashblade is here to support you and your every day needs. Vote Evon Gnashblade Today!!!

> >

> > **Mini Mistic forge access**

> > - Allows players to use the forge from anywhere in the game right from their inventory.

> >

> > **Gems**

> > - Get a set amount of gems = to the subscription cost each time you pay.

> >

> > These are just a few examples in my head that most players would probably enjoy but things that wont make players who don't sub feel like they lesser or specifically need to sub. All the above things could be considered nice to haves but not must haves. Some of these ideas might come off to people as Must haves but if you are going to pay for a few perks that wont increase your damage / skill or give you a direct advantage gameplay wise they should be some what nice perks imo.

>

> Free waypoint transit would be an okay thing for a special member subscription.

>

> Most the other stuff doesn't really work exception the gems thing. I think a subscription could come with some gems each month, obviously less than what it would be if you just used the money to straight up buy them. Or they could just get a percentage discount on gems for as long as they are subbed.

>

You will have to explain to me how the other stuff couldn't work you make simple buttons to press in the inventory tab that only work for subbed users for most of it. Like any time bank access or any time forge access should be be easily doable. About the only one thats really questionable is the transmutation charges.

> There could be a hub similar to the passes you can get, but have it have some daily gathering nodes that rotate what they are every two weeks or something or something as well, nothing that would create an imbalance in the game's economy, but just like a small added thing. Maybe each month can come with a "members gift box" that can be opened up and has a choice of things like map currencies or something.

There really is no point of this

- guild halls

- home instances

Both of which really invalidate the wroth of something like this. This is also considered some what pay to win and ill get to that in a second

>

> If you make the benefits of the sub too much you are going into pay-to-win territory and I don't want that for this game.

Its not about having too much benefits really its about the type of benefits you get and thats what makes something a nice to have vs a must have aka pay to win.

If a game does the following its pay to win

- only gives you 10 inventory slots and says get 45 with a sub.

- locks you out certain races or classes but lets you get them with a sub.

- limits the amount of gold and or mats you can access despite you earning them fair and square you cant access them without some kind of special tool or going to some out of the way area which the game may or may not limit via cash shop.

- gives away mats and or currency for for free (even more so if its good mats or currency and you know because people are playing money they expect it to be decent)

- you get a better class options that is otherwise not available for play

Pay to win means by paying you get something that increases your stats or ease of obtaining mats/nodes and or gold which can later be converted into better gear and or progression or when not being subbed stalls or limits the gear or progression. IF it being subbed cuts 50% of cost or time what you need to get a said god item or reach a set point in progression then thats pay to win.

Nothing I listed does that which is why I listed those things. Listing something that gives mats away for free or map currency away for free **is going into pay to win territory** I think you are the one who has it backwards here.

Ideally having things like bank access or the power to swap your stats on gear or the power to use the forge at any time is not pay to win in anyway

- You still need to buy or earn the gear on your own you dont simply go from blues to ascended if thats what you were thinking.

- You still need to earn mats to throw in the forge on your own being able to access it just makes it usable you don't simply get free loot out of it.

- Having bank access does nothing really special for you aside from letting you stash / withdraw some items on the fly, you can already access banks at crafting stations and deposit mats at any time from anywhere in the world. I dont see this as a broken issue.

I think the only real argument you could have here is the idea for transmutation charges but thats about it really.

> @"kasoki.5180" said:

> ESO, WoW and Final Fantasy all have some form subscription model. And by all accounts all are doing better than GW2. But sure lets keep pretending this status quo works and keep telling ourselves that any form of subscription is whats gonna kill the game.

ESO might be doing better only because its shown a road map with progressing content that looks promising to players

Wow... no... just no.... Do not even mention this game or its models and ideals here unless you are talking about wow everone knew about 6 years ago.

Final Fantasy probably doing fairly better yes i dont know though but I have not heard people complaining about the game much

**What anet can not do**

If its forced that means the game dies because a lot of people who play now are not going to suddenly feel that its fair that they need to be forced to pay to play the game thats out right unfair and devious to do to players. Personally if anet suddenly said I needed to pay to play I would probably only play 1 month after new content came out and for the rest of the time I would cut my losses and un sub.

**What anet could do**

A subscription model could help generate money for gw2 but it needs to be fairly close to ESO's model offering benefits that don't particularly make you better than another player in terms of status aka pay to win. All of the benefits offered need to feel like a nice to have not a must have. More importantly **it would need to be 100% optional** and not required.

A subscription for GW2 huh.... lets just look at a few things anet could do.

**Free waypoint transit**

- Travel the world for free no cost on way points for subbed users.

**Instant access to all living story content**

- If you don't happen to have it unlocked congrats now you do.

- Once played through its completely unlocked on your account forever even if you un sub.

- xpacks would need to be considered here however. Possibly subbed users can buy them greatly discounted or something idk

**Gold fed transmutation Converter**

- Need transmutation charges simply insert a gold coin and get a Transmutation charge, feel free to edit your fashion wars 2 style more freely and as frequently as you want.

**Stat Converter**

- Allows players to change stats on all gear from rare to ascended with a small gold fee based on the armor quality **(25 silver up to 1 gold per item)**

- While this does devalue legendary weapon/ amor perks of being able to stat change for free a bit if you want those perks without the sub simply get the legendary weapons and armor they would still have value here in addition to their shiny features.

**Bank access from inventory**

- Yes this devalues the black lion chest bank access item but hey i don't see much wrong with that if you still want it without doing an optional subscription its there for you. thus it still has value.

**Black Lion Premium Express**

- No longer will you have to find a black lion merchant to pick up your items bought on the TP they will simply be delivered to you via black lion mail express free of charge. Gnashblade is here to support you and your every day needs. Vote Evon Gnashblade Today!!!

**Mini Mistic forge access**

- Allows players to use the forge from anywhere in the game right from their inventory.

**Gems**

- Get a set amount of gems = to the subscription cost each time you pay.

These are just a few examples in my head that most players would probably enjoy but things that wont make players who don't sub feel like they lesser or specifically need to sub. All the above things could be considered nice to haves but not must haves. Some of these ideas might come off to people as Must haves but if you are going to pay for a few perks that wont increase your damage / skill or give you a direct advantage gameplay wise they should be some what nice perks imo.

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Although I might sounds as rude, I must say that in some very selfish/cynical way I'm actually happy. Not happy for the employees that will get fired of course, as it's unlikely that it was their fault. At least those left with the company will be working on Guild Wars 2 and not a shadow "side project" that was draining resources and manpower. It was making it look like Arenanet has far less employees (judging by the release schedule) so now that the "extra project" was cancelled, the developers that will stay, will be all Guild Wars 2 developers.

The only questionable part about that is what if extra un announced projects included possibly a 3rd xpack for gw2 or season 6 etc.

We really have no way of knowing. On top of this anet needs to give us a road map now and i mean more than what they have told us so far that the game will continue into season 5.

Now is the time to lay out a hard strong road map for at least the next year or two with detailed specifics about what is planned. Other wise people will continue to assume the worst and this kind of thinking is infectious.

We need to see something, some kind of model of sorts

Month 1 -

New story, New Feature updates, New content like raids / fractals, these take turns already so thats fine, new legendary weapons etc (not always a new map every time)

Month 2 -

New balance, wvw and pvp events related to previous story release. Sudden brand storm instabilities in wvw etc. pvp rewards / maps or modes that don't specifically require top tourney play so that a larger majority can be involved. This keeps wvw and pvp players up to date with living story without specifically forcing them to play it in pve also gives them things to do.

Month 3 -

New side story or additional events/semi meta events in old maps related to previous story release shows small hints of progression in the living world from the end of the previous story and hints that will lead into the new story.

Month 4-

( Gap for work time ) and Repeat

Maybe every other 3-4 months we can get a new map but we should certainly not be getting new maps every time while neglecting the rest of the world because thats not living world Thats living section. >_> Considering the current story's situation we should be seeing the most crazy things happening all over the world right now.

> @"Behellagh.1468" said:

> A company with a single product is a doomed company. ArenaNet needs to look at developing another product. Their primary source of income can't just be GW2 or the company will eventually be doomed.

IF the game is good enough it can be the main source of income for a long time actually

See World of Warcraft not counting the past 5-6 years (give or take a few more) or so but everything before that. That game thrived for a very very very VERY long time as one of blizzards main games its not impossible to do but it requires great focus and care be put into the game. In but in the years of 2016 up till now really thats something that seems to be lacking in the pc gaming industries specifically with mmos to a greater extent.

I feel bad for the people being laid off and the people who will remain working as they will now have to likely also increase their workloads without additional pay.

This hits both the fortunate and unfortunate to be honest.

People here are talking about dead maps and gems and how badly the game needs a engine update this is all true and we all know it. Anet has to know it and while we do appreciate the shiny stuff in the gem story we also love being able to do new content. Its about time living world goes back to not adding a new map every time. WE DO LIKE NEW CONTENT IN OLD MAPS. There is nothing wrong with doing this and while gating core accounts out from this content would be impossible who knows maybe it gets people on core accounts to buy the expansions in the end. New core player sees crazy event an gets curious and buys the x packs for the story to find out whats going on etc.

I do like going back to areas from gw1 or just new areas in general but i dont think we need to do it with every story release.

- it slows down the release of new content as new maps have to be made and tested / walled off to prevent map breaks

- it gates players without x packs 100% out of living world content meaning they have no reason to even buy something when all they get is a email saying new content click here to buy.. show them some of this content in game and get them interested!

- quality of life can be focused on in all modes over building new maps for 2 hours of story every 3 months in 1 map that gets dull after a month unless it has a meta worth Farming and even then 3 months later the map gets forgotten about in the next living world story.

Its called living **world**

We need to see whats happening in other parts of the world anyways the old parts HOW IS THE CURRENT STORY AFFECTING THESE OTHER PLACES?!?!? its the Living world but only small niche spots are being focused on ideally several other parts of the world should be as well. Why not even move some of living world over into WvW events even.

With new content old maps we could expect

- higher populations in older maps

- less time between living world updates

- other modes to finally get some love wvw and pvp are both in a mess right now

- possibly **feature pack** updates (I REALLY MISS THESE) I want new missing skill types to be filled in, and other small quality of life updates. *necro player* WHERE IS MY ELITE SIGNET AND WELL

BUT

Yes I hope this does more good than bad anet show us that you can be the one company to turn this around rather than just let it keep you down. I never thought ESO or Blade and Soul would out last GW2 let my thoughts be wrong here. You have a great game but it has its problems in every mode that need to be addressed.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> >

> > So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge?

> >

>

> Well, objectively there is still room for quite a few different e-specs that follow the principles of those philosophies, even if thematically or from a player point of view it's a bit disappointing.

> - Defensively, there is room for damage transfer to a pet just like there is room for differents use of barriers.

This would require that the pet not die instantly to anything else that might hit it which would invalidate the whole point of its properties but thats something would be left for anet to decied. We know for a fact none of the current minions would work well with this idea at least in pvp or wvw because any of them can be 1 or 2 hit by often what can be consider chip/cleave damage.

> - The necromancer still have plenty of conditions that are thematically fitting and could be used as the focus of an e-spec (poison, weakness, slow and even the infamous confusion)

I was not worried that the list of conditions is too short but worried said elite specs would focus to much on conditions. Ideally it would be nice to get elite specs were it can easily be built to be power or condition and work well from both sides based on player preference instead of being locked toward more of one side than the other.

Also slow and poison when i want those even if its for a power build.

>

> That said,

> > Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoe

> This isn't part of the necromancer's philosophy, a lot of the core tools affect single targets. Anet is just overdoing it on reaper and scourge because being bad at cleaving was necromancer's main concern before HoT.

>

Now we have an crazy amount I thought reaper had a good amount in its own right and scourge just pushes the limit to the max yet i still feel like we will see more wide spread stuff in the future.

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Deadvillager.1956" said:

> > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > > SNIIIIIP

> > > > > > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos.

> > > >

> > > > Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that.

> > > >

> > > > Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason"

> > > >

> > >

> > > I find that especs that get added (at least the well deigned ones) ar least try to put an interesting spin on core concepts which i don't see in forum suggestions.

> > >

> > > "The same but better" rather then "the same but diffrent" (if that makes sense)

> >

> > Well for something to be the same but different you need to give it something somewhere that it otherwise is not good at or simply never had good angle on doing.

> > So looking at @"Dadnir.5038" here when I think about this.

> >

> > We must keep necromancers core philosophy. This means in short

> > - no hard blocks

> > - no mobility increases

> > - no additional evades

> > - no stealth

> > - no break target

> > - is condition dependent even on power builds

> > - Is vulnerable to crowd control

> > - Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoe

> > - Must use Hp to sustain itself rather than damage avoidance of any kind even if tools are not given to increase this effect to the equality of damage avoidance tools

> > - Must apply a plethora of conditions including cripple / weakness

> > - Must have scattered Boon corrupt

> > - Must be slow this includes any weapon that comes from an elite spec (must be slower than all other professions that can use that same weapon type)

> > - Self boon generation is limited to might, protection, a bit of swiftness (again)

> >

> > And this is just to name a few of the obvious ones.

> >

> > So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge?

> >

>

> no,that'd be unreasonable but you have to put more thought into it then "let's add stealth because jumpscares, lol"

Well i don't think anyone ever said it like that here in fact people pointed out pretty legit key factors of killers and slashers having the power to literally vanish from the perspective of their victims regardless if a jump scare happens shortly after or not its a pretty common thing in most movies for the slashers and or killers to remain hidden even some times hiding in plain sight from their victims. So i don't think anyone was specifically saying "Because jumpscares" For some ideas when it comes to ghostly themes, vampires, even what could have been considered in reapers case as an out of the box idea the idea could easily work. :astonished:

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Deadvillager.1956" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > SNIIIIIP

> > > > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has.

> > > >

> > >

> > > That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos.

> >

> > Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around.

> >

> > >

> > > As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that.

> >

> > Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason"

> >

>

> I find that especs that get added (at least the well deigned ones) ar least try to put an interesting spin on core concepts which i don't see in forum suggestions.

>

> "The same but better" rather then "the same but diffrent" (if that makes sense)

Well for something to be the same but different you need to give it something somewhere that it otherwise is not good at or simply never had good angle on doing.

So looking at @"Dadnir.5038" here when I think about this.

We must keep necromancers core philosophy. This means in short

- no hard blocks

- no mobility increases

- no additional evades

- no stealth

- no break target

- is condition dependent even on power builds

- Is vulnerable to crowd control

- Must have moderate to considerable levels of aoe

- Must use Hp to sustain itself rather than damage avoidance of any kind even if tools are not given to increase this effect to the equality of damage avoidance tools

- Must apply a plethora of conditions including cripple / weakness

- Must have scattered Boon corrupt

- Must be slow this includes any weapon that comes from an elite spec (must be slower than all other professions that can use that same weapon type)

- Self boon generation is limited to might, protection, a bit of swiftness (again)

And this is just to name a few of the obvious ones.

So our ideas need to keep these philosophies while being different from the current 3 play styles of core, reaper, and scourge?

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > @"mbrentz.3674" said:

> > I noticed today that when a charr and a sylvari sit side by side with the club chair, the sylvari's chair is actually significantly bigger than the charr's chair. This is surely not the way it was intended.

>

> It depends on the character creation height, if the chairs scale the same way Mounts do. A tallest Sylvari's chair will be bigger than a shortest Charr's chair.

Yup and also possibly that a maxe size Sylvari will still look smaller in the chair due to more of the chair being revealed around them as apposed to charr.

A max size Sylvari sitting next to a max size charr (in height) the chairs will be the same size how ever

- the smaller human like frame plus sitting position of the Sylvari will make the chair seems bigger than what it is. Overall it just looks nice

- the larger models that the charr are made from take up more space reducing the amount of chair you see ( from the front) the cramped sitting position given with this specific chair makes it seem a bit smaller too making the chair appear to be smaller even if its the same size as another race of max height sitting in it.

So its a combination of sitting position + chair simply not scaling harder with larger races which would require some custom code work for norn and charr to be honest.

I would be fine with them not even fixing some of the chairs i pointed out so long as in the future charr and norn get some chairs that are made to their base models and don't look ridiculously small when they sit in them. Sure it means they will look too big on other races but hey..... win some lose some maybe? Or fix them to be fun for everyone ;)

> @"Deadvillager.1956" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > SNIIIIIP

> > So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has.

> >

>

> That feels a little too bland of a description to me. IMO, every espec up until now took something from the core necro, twisted it and put it back. Reaper is not just a better spite, it is spite on steroids with intimidating and (almost) devastating blows added in. Scourge is a curse traitline focused around longtermed wells that can pulse damage, support, corrupt or all of the above at the same time (kitten balance team make up your mind!). This in turn makes all the elite specs feel very coherent and fun to combine, in contrast to other classes that are stuck with effective but weird feeling trait combos.

Well thats kind of the point i was making there should be nothing wrong with elite spec ideas such as vampire etch even though we already have a blood magic line. There should be no reason to argue that its not a good idea just because it would be a better version of x or y. But there seems to be alot of that going around.

>

> As for the next elite spec, we might have the freedom to either grab the next traitline and blend it with literally anything we can think off OR we think of ways to introduce completely new mechanics for necro by abusing the shroud. Stealth: use life force to turn invisible for a maximum of x seconds, time spent invisible increases your damage. Mobility: use life force to create death nodes around you, use life force to teleport between death nodes. Blocks: use life force to gain x buff on abilities F1-F5. Instashot: use life force to turn into a death tornado exploding once your life force reaches zero, damage amplifies with the time spent in the death tornado. Its really easy, someone just has to put time into it. And there is people getting paid for exactly that.

Well the idea is that some people are pretty much saying cant do that cause blocks dont fit into necro, stealth simply wont fit into necro while i dont agree with that its just the counter argument that I often get tired of hearing. We can stick to necro philosophies and people wont like them when they are strong resulting in their culling and if we consider things out side of the box from necro philosophies we simply put "cant have it because of that reason"

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > _snip_

>

> Well, the necromancer face a situation that is interesting in the fact that it focus less on thematic than on it's differents design philosophy.

> - Defense? The necromancer's defense philosophy is to soak damage through health point.

If necro had proper defensive tools or traits to handle the sheer amount of damage that is thrown out in 2019 I would agree but anet has never done this properly no matter how much hp or toughness you can stack on necro you can still be 1 shot by a another profession where the moblity, evades, and or sheer damage drasticaly over powers te philosophy of soaking damage.

> - Buff? The necromancer's philosophy is to destroy them not to give them.

If the philosophy of necromancer was properly managed to keep up with how other philosophies have improved or changed I would be perfectly fine with not going against them for new elite spec ideas but thats not happening and it seems that anet is not ever really looking at doing such a thing.

> - Mobility? The necromancer's philosophy is to reduce the mobility of it's opponent, not to increase it's own.

We have seen increases to mobility in several ways but not ways to increases the effectiveness of mobility impairing effects so this is a problem.

> - ... etc.

>

> In a way it's extremly frustrating for the players because it's counter-intuitive and like you said, if ANet continue to follow these philosophies, the necromancer won't ever feel different but always having a better version of what he already got.

>

> However, in another way, ANet still have more than enough room to develop tools around these philosophies. For example, Mirage and Daredevil have a lot of evade and this create an uproar, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine that ANet is readying itself to introduce a necromancer e-spec that counter the idea of dodging instead of giving more dodge to the necromancer. They just need to build things around weakness, introduce a mechanism that deal damage to the endurance bar and put it on a necromancer e-spec. (the issue being that it wouldn't change anything to the necromancer and that other professions would instantly vomit profanities about how OP this new e-spec is... Something that happen with each new necromancer e-spec)

If we had things that improved necros philosophies to a great extent I might not be opposed to things being a certain way.

Lets think, Necro with traits that effect things like "impairing conditions being more effective Chill, Cripple, Weakness being 33% more effective etc / affecting the distance of movement skills" (which use to be a thing) would be nice but seen as too strong and too un fun to play against while being practically non beneficial in pve.

Fear becoming a hard stun effect so that its not countered by both condition cleanse, resistance, and break stuns / stability.

As you said it would lead to people vomiting profanities up till the point it gets culled which in itself is extremely biased as heck.

Because things like this have not happened I cant say that its not wrong to want to go against some of necros philosophies because its super frustrating when other philosophies are growing stronger which allows other professions to gain newer and stronger mechanics while necro is stuck ideally at the same level it has been from Pre HoT.