ZDragon.3046

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > > > even without a shroud stealth necro would be a bad idea

> > > >

> > > > Why?

> > > > Personally I don't think this would be an issue balance wise since the core necromancer don't have excessive mobility or one shot mechanism inbuilt in it's weapon skills and utility skills. Where I see an issue is more that it doesn't fit well with the defensive philosophy of the necromancer because it's an indirect damage avoidance mechanism while the necromancer's defense philosophy is to not "avoid" damage.

> > > >

> > > > Thematicaly, stealth fit with quite a few folklore monster (vampire, specter, ghost or even the most common murderer from thrillers/horror movie tend to be proficient at staying hidden from prying eyes). I'd even say that it's already quite surprising that stealth didn't make it to the necromancer up to now.

> > >

> > > hit the nail on the head there "stealth as a mechanic doesn't fit necro"

> >

> > snipp

>

> the issue i have with the ghost/vamp suggestions is that they usually are just core necro line but better, rather then do something interesting with it. same kinda goes for the stealth suggestions (that or they're poorly thought out)

Well lets look at a few things

For example Reaper is roughly just a more offensive version of core with the cost of range for powerful melee. Everything reaper does can be done on core so its just a better line of spite / and soul reaping mixed together. The only thing different about reaper is that its melee focused which is not an option core necro really has at all. Yes you have dagger but you cant fight a warrior with a dagger you will get steam rolled. A necromancers survivability up till reaper was dependent on conditioning foes down so that you could kite them and wait for them to make mistakes and punish them for it. Reaper compensates some of this weakness by granted the necro with a boosted shroud (walk into a reaper shroud without a plan and you die)

Scourge on the other hand is a totally different monster its basically its own "Better" core necromancer. Now... yes its different, but at the same time its poorly constructed in my eyes. It grants powerful aoe prowess for controlling the battle field with zone pressure. But necromancer already had this in its kit. Reaper cleaves a pretty wide area even in its melee range has skills like Grasping darkness, and Nightfall on the great sword. Reaper also has shouts which focus on aoe to the core to reach their maximum effectiveness.

To extend this even more Core has the option of wide aoe weapons like staff and scepter. Blood magic boast wells which are also aoe focused, Death shroud has skills like tainted shackles and life transfer which are aoe pressure focused. Necormancer already had tons of aoe and yet anet chose to add more and just make it "Better" by simply making aoe pressure more available, which by the way people who have to play against it dislike very much. Anet took aoe and support via boon corrupt and zone control on necro and made it slightly better by making it more available thats scourge in a nutshell. In short this was the least creative idea they ever done because they simply added more of something necromancer already had tons of options for even if the options were not super strong in its core kit and even within reapers kit.

At this point any idea thats too different "wont fit because its not the same at all or would be mechanically too strong in theory thus making it to unfair or unpleasant to play against" or "is just a better version of something that core necro already has, thus is a bad idea or not thought out very well."

Stealth is a no

Mobility is a no

Blocks are a no

Evades are a no

Insta 1 shot burst are a no

Must always have a plethora of boon corrupt yes (i dont know why)

Must always be slow

Must always have long ish cooldown recharges

Must often have more risk than reward than other classes

If it has the same weapon as another core class it must be slower by default

So when we really start looking at ideas that could make necro different as far as playing there wont ever be something thats just a better version of something core kit kinda already has.

> @"derd.6413" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"derd.6413" said:

> > > even without a shroud stealth necro would be a bad idea

> >

> > Why?

> > Personally I don't think this would be an issue balance wise since the core necromancer don't have excessive mobility or one shot mechanism inbuilt in it's weapon skills and utility skills. Where I see an issue is more that it doesn't fit well with the defensive philosophy of the necromancer because it's an indirect damage avoidance mechanism while the necromancer's defense philosophy is to not "avoid" damage.

> >

> > Thematicaly, stealth fit with quite a few folklore monster (vampire, specter, ghost or even the most common murderer from thrillers/horror movie tend to be proficient at staying hidden from prying eyes). I'd even say that it's already quite surprising that stealth didn't make it to the necromancer up to now.

>

> hit the nail on the head there "stealth as a mechanic doesn't fit necro"

I think for necro to get stealth it would require a rework to stealth as a whole to be honest.

- 1 stealth does not do much for pve

- stealth can be hard to balance and we all know that necro with anything remotely good will get complained about by everyone who is not a necro regardless of what the mechanic is.

- Anet needs to let go of the staple that necro should always be slow but hit hard. (too many classes in the game right now) that hit harder and are several times faster not only i mobility but in skill use and skill recovery.

To say stealth does not fit on necro is probably true its more like camouflage would be more accurate

That said Dadnir is correct. Vampires, killers, Users of dark arts. Often like to stay hidden until the time is right and often can vanish without a trace. Even if they are not out right turning invisible it could be correct to say that they are very well mastered when it comes to the art of disengage or camouflage.

I could see necro getting a lesser stealth mechanic that partly hides them and that maybe prevents them from being directly targeted by skills that often require a target for them to hit but still susceptible to aoe or your standard sword swing melee. Perhaps if they are beyond a certain range they are completely invisible to some one who might be looking for them etc.

This could fit a vampire or ghostly wraith spec very easily both which seem to be popular ideas at the moment

I think regardless of what idea anet pics next its going to synergies with one of the core lines there is really nothing wrong with this concept even though core covers others ideas that you called out such as blood magic with vampire, or death magic with some others etc. But lets be real core necroamancer is a jack of all trades who is lesser of a jack. Blood magic is realistically stealing death magics job and death magic needs to considerably be improved. Soul reaping no longer really covers ghostly or spectral aspects now that the spectral traits have been removed from it. Blood magic with a vampire type line would be nice and make for great synergy to make the line stand out. If we see a dark hexing ritualist it will probably aline with curses which is some what the same thing.

In truth though I think any idea we toss up that seems solid and or strong as a mechanic can arguably be shot down as "It wont fit necro" because necro is never allowed to keep anything thats solid and strong as a mechanic at least not intact as a whole. When something is moderately unpleasant it gets removed or changed because its unfun for other players. How ever when we see this happen on other classes they hardly get touched. Its always been a bit biased imo anet has always had the chance to do greater unique ideas on necromancer and its elite specs but if something is not fun for people fighting against it or they dont want to recode something it gets the lazy fix rather than a well thought out fix regardless if its pvp or pve.

> @"Maria Murtor.7253" said:

> The Pile of Gold is the worst: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/57569/clipping-luxurious-pile-of-gold#latest

It took theme ages just to fix how charr tails act when sitting in that position by the way. It use to flex in reverse and way too much it was BAD looking really BAD

But regardless if its chair that you get for working hard at end game content for free or one you spend money for the issue is the same. We need less recycled sitting positions or properly scaled chairs. Same can be said for new mounts that come in the future.

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> mounts have it worse, a chair is just that, a chair.

> however, if i have to look at a charr riding a small lizard instead of a frikin dinosaur it's time they scale it properly, i pity the little guy.

Actually the mounts are not that bad. Even Raptor mount for most charr is sized ok ish.... about the only mount that really annoys me is the Roller's Saddle because it is actually too small for charr and norn alike.

Raptors, Jackals, Skimmers, etc are ok imo. Even more so when moving As some one who has several different sized charr and a norn or two and uses mounts every day I would say they are not so bad.... no where near as bad as those chairs.

Not to mention the dreadnought raptor skin option (I dont use it but ive seen charr on it) its literally the kind of raptor they would use and they are significantly bulkier than the standard raptors from what I can tell at least from looking at the legs which are not covered in armor.

Now if we could just get maybe a few chairs that are made with the Charr or norn in mind first before human then we might be ok. Right now too many chairs are human focused so they look bad on bigger races.

Asura's really get the short end of the stick because they will look small no matter what chair is made unless anet specifically makes a cultural chair for them. But as an asura you look cute on those big chairs or like a bad-ace which is not a bad thing. But when the situation is reversed aint nothing cute about a big charr or norn trying to sit in a chair 3 sizes to small after its done the first 2 or 3 times at this point it's a bit frustrating... oh boy new chair welp.. cant fit in it.

I mean this aint the biggest issue in the game but still its becoming a trend that needs to be stopped.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Im not sure they can change it. Im sure i saw a quote that basically said this was all they could do be ause of how it links to the mount system

Well its not so so much that the chairs use the mount system. The chairs do scale according to character height size as mounts do, but only very slightly, Not enough to make the chairs look good on larger races.

I think it would be more of matter of making 2 chair files and have charr and norn point to the larger scaled chair while other races point to the smaller chair when you go to use them. Yes its slightly more work because most chairs would have to have a big and a small render and some races would need specific codes on pointing to which chair to summon from the games files but it would be nice.

Im sure it would be just as bad if the majority of chairs were made by the scale of Charr and Norn making them look incredibly over sized on humans sized models and outrageously big on asura models. Even more so if they continued to use the same recycled sitting positions that didn't make use of the chairs larger size and or design.

Like i really love the look of the club chair but i just cant bring myself to buy it knowing how my characters would look sitting int it due to its under scaled size. Im glad I was able to see some one else using the chair before i spontaneously bought it because I would have been disappointed greatly as stated it looks huge in the preview window but is outrageously small in use.

These Chairs are lovely and I do appreciate the work put into them but after chair number 3 or 4 I think it is now some one needs to bring this up if its not been done already.

I love chairs in mmo's probably more so than I should and its a shame that such lovely ones dont look good on larger races because they aren not scaled big enough and the same cramped seating positions are used on them in most cases.

We really need.. Large scaling on chairs for bigger races (norn / charr) almost every chair released sense they became a new personal toy to use has been too small on these two races in particularly.

The Club chair (most recent release) looks rather large when you preview it in the novelty window but once you actually sit in the chair it way too small for charr and norn even at their smaller sizes.

For example Looking at a few other chairs

**Standard chair - For both Charr and Norn,**

- It looks fine... maybe even ok its a bit small but the sitting position makes it work rather nicely.

**Bench of the Final Judge - Charr specifically,**

- The chair is big enough how ever the sitting position is still slightly questionable (hands dont quite fit on the arm rest as smooth as they should the crossed legs clip way too hard)

**Emblazoned Dragon Throne - Charr specifically,**

- The chair is too small , the poor cats have to squeeze into it and the sitting position does not help... i guess if you want the "Cute cat in small chair look" it works (But this should not be the case for the majority of chairs)

**Night Watch Stool - Perfect for everyone.**

- This chair despite its small size works nicely for every race Even on charr in most cases it wont feel like its too small likely due to the sitting position

**Festive Harvest Chair - Nice for Every one** (slightly too seasonal for my taste though)

- This chair is nice for every race, the sitting positions for norn and charr (larger races) work very well for it and its has enough room to look like its something they could sit on.

**Desert King Throne - Charr specifically**

- The chair is sized nicely for all races (just barely) how ever the recycled pose for charr on this charr makes them look crammed into it. The pose is just not very fitting to the powerful look of the chair. Good chair, Bad sitting pose.

**Club Chair - Charr again... and norn too** (at least the male norn)

- Once again this chair is scaled way to small for the larger races. I want it but refuse to buy another chair that looks like its going to cause my characters pain sitting into. Their really is no reason these chairs should be this small on larger races. To make it worse the sitting positions make them look like they are squeezing into it. Another recycled sitting position thats really not a good one for these larger guys.

The chairs are designed for human sized characters models and not being scaled up to norn and charr sized models. To make matters worse crammed poses are recycled slightly too much for some of these chairs that make the chairs smaller size look even worse.

Please... Please... **PLEASE** scale up smaller chairs in the future so that they look nicer on larger races at least that way some of the base recycled sitting positions like Charr and Norn on Club chair or Dragon Throne at least look decent.

My suggestion would simply be to have well of darkness apply a condition thats a bit more rare but still deals damage to breakbars. Considering the condition list pool the only conditions that we can really use are "Fear" and "Slow" both are considered Rare ish conditions as about 1 profession applies each generally Chronomancer having slow (which may not fit into chrono's build in a raid situation) and necros have Fear but only in short burst generally with up times that are not considerably great in pve.

The best viable solution would likely be to make it a strong breakbar busting skill. In addition to blind it applies slow and or fear either on initial cast or one of the two (probably slow) with each pulse. That with a cut of its cool down to roughly 25 seconds at a base and the skill might at least be played with if not heavily considered for some use for running a all wells style build at endgame.

Another option to consider along side my previous statement would be giving Well of Darkness and Well of Power (the two utility wells that deal no strike damage) 2 charge count uses.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> - Life siphon damaging effects now can crit (PvE only)... (Give some interesting synergy in PvE between WoD and vampiric ritual)

You know thats not going to happen lol. and it still only makes the gap between the other wells and well of darkness bigger the goal here is to make well of darkness better not make everything better which keeps the gap between viable and unviable if not makes the gap bigger.

> - Add a trait that grant life force whenever you blind a foe. / Make WoD grant LF when applying blind.

This idea is not bad but it would likely just replace the chill on blind trait further more im not sure in pve that small life force gain would be enough to make it viable.

> - Modify the way conditions damage breakbar so that all their damages are done at once when applied instead of over time. (make stacking soft CC better against breakbars)

This is questionable in my opinion. Its a big change for ideally 1 profession idea which is not something really you want to do in a game like this. Breakbars would totally need new rescaling and have to be completely reworked all together as each new instance of blind or cripple... its just not a good imo. The system is fine as is and to change it for this once instance is not a really viable solution.

> - Change _Chilling darkness_ ICD in PvE to 1s. (Make WoD a good condi dps skill on reaper)

This is probably the only change that makes valid sense.

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > I don't think Aurene is gone for good though, simply too many key factors say otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > There are crystal spikes driven through her body. Are you kidding me? ;)

> > >

> > > Whats your point. Its a magical world.

> >

> > There are still rules to this world, and Aurene is DEAD. Do you want her to return as a zombie (Zhaitan magic) or Lich (Palawa Joko)?

>

> Death is a funny thing in this game.

>

> Yeah I suspect that Aurine is very much dead dead at this point.

> She can't come back the same way we did and she can't revive herself like Joko either.

>

> But since Kralkatorrik is essentially invincible now that she's gone we are going to need her back and I expect Kralkatorrik himself will be responsible for doing this.

> Anet has put a fair bit of focus on Kralkatorrik having Zhaitan magic.. there is even dialogue during the fight of him using it.

> My guess is that Kralkatorrik who has eliminated the threat of Aurine and suffered severe damage from the recent battle will seek to recover from his wounds and since he's also lacking a champion (that we killed in Jahai) he will take advantage of Aurines corpse.. branding it from death and reviving her under his control.

> Season 6 prediction then involves seeking out the forgotten and learning how they broke Glint free from her corruption in the past so that we can replicate the process on Aurine regaining our most powerful ally and our only viabile solution to killing Kralkatorrik.

> His influence will likely empower her as well making her bigger and stronger and once freed she will have even more power to use against him the next time we face off.

>

This is a very possible idea and there is still the idea of Cathie too. She has always been a bit of a shady character and its possible that she still knows something that she may be keeping hidden from us. The bond she shared with Aurene appeared to be fading but we will have to wait and see if she fully returns to her normal self completely in the next bit before we can assume to much.

To be honest I though that she was going to die to considering that kind of connection she shared with Aurene but she didn't.

After the final trails Aurene was taken away from the player and clearly shown something during the same moment that we were being told about a world without Kralkatorrik. Its possible that Aurene already knew she would die and was just now brave enough to face it regardless of if she is DEAD DEAD or only kinda dead she will for sure make a return to us that I have very little doubt in.

While i don't think we will be able to find any forgotten (considering most of them are.... all puns aside forgotten) aka dead or branded its not likely thats the solution. Glint mentioned something about having to be there for her and endure with her (2 things of which did not really come off strongly in the final fight or though the chapter outside of that trial) so while i think your ideal is a total possibility in regards to having to cleanse a death branded version of her. I don't think the forgotten will be an option we have.

There is also the possibility that Kralk has no reason to brand Aurene either. He could have just rebranded Glint when he went for her but didn't and just killed her instead. In truth we dont know what Kralk is going to do thats part of what makes him such a good character in the plot of it all. If he is thoughtful he might not want to risk the same mistake again as he did with Glint and knowing that it means he wont want to brand her why not just leave her dead dead. If he did that he technically already won.

The story open to a lot of things right now but i think going in hopes of saving the world without an Aurene is highly unlikely. ;)

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > I don't think Aurene is gone for good though, simply too many key factors say otherwise.

> > >

> > > There are crystal spikes driven through her body. Are you kidding me? ;)

> >

> > Whats your point. Its a magical world.

>

> There are still rules to this world, and Aurene is DEAD. Do you want her to return as a zombie (Zhaitan magic) or Lich (Palawa Joko)?

>

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > What happened with magic Aurine suppose to let out if she is gone, I wonder?

> >

> > See this guy gets it :+1: :# ;)

>

> Their question about the energy that has LEFT Aurene's body when she died was completely unrelated to your funny claims.

>

Your way of thinking is rather closed minded if i do say so. It has EVERYTHING to do with the whole point of why we cant and shouldn't go willy nilly killing anymore elder dragons. Because they release tons of magic on death. The fact that we didnt directly see this happen with Aurene leaves the possibility open that she will in some way be brought back to some one who is rather observant to the actions of past events in the game.

Vlast was not an elder dragon and died and on death exploded releasing the magical energy that was within his body while leaving no trace of his body other than Crystals scattered all over.

We know that Aurene was strong and had quite a bit of magical energy built up inside her in fact this whole time she has been getting stronger so why... ON HER DEATH would she not share a similar result to every other dragon of power and relevance we have seen thus far.

Im sorry but its completely related to my so called "Funny claims"

> @"phs.6089" said:

> What happened with magic Aurine suppose to let out if she is gone, I wonder?

See this guy gets it :+1: :# ;)

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > I don't think Aurene is gone for good though, simply too many key factors say otherwise.

>

> There are crystal spikes driven through her body. Are you kidding me? ;)

Whats your point. Its a magical world.

Vlast blew up into no physical fleshy parts but nothing but pure crystal behind

Mordremoth was literally plant life who could live without a body but jumping his mind into others

Zhaitan was literally as dead as it gets.

For all we know Jormag is pure ice and Pirmordus lives under possibly millions of pounds of pressure baring down on him under lava.....

In a world of magic getting spiked through your body does not 100% mean the end of your life lol.

> @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said:

> Well this episode was good. Now we know that kralkatorrik can see into the future and foresaw a world without elder dragons. So thats happening. We know that aureen had some special ascended dragon training that wasnt explained to us. Caith is again a 1stborn as some wierd sylvari branded hybrid. Maybe its a new race. And when a dragon sees the future it cannot be changed.

I dont think kralk saw the future himself based on how exactly glint spoke it out. He saw the future of a world without himself through her. Likely right before or right after she was converted to having her own willpower. Lets not forget Glint was not always a good dragon she was on his side as his champion at one point. I dont think he can see the future right now though.

I think we are all taking Aurene's visions a bit too direct. I think the idea is not that the future cant be changed because we changed it in the past back when she was still an egg and then with Blath. and yet again with Joko but in this case we were shown multiple visions of the future and in each one (in the previous episode) it ended with the same result implying that this particular event could not be avoided. I think if anything it shows that the future can be changed but in some instances you must face an obstacle rather than avoid it to continue forward. This might also be part of what Glint spoke of when it came down to Enduring with Aurene

To be blunt its no that i didn't like the story but it did leave me with a few what the EFFFS screaming in my head. Maybe that was the idea.

I'm not a complete fan of how it bluntly ended I mean the whole way that last bit played out was done well when it came to polish. Don't get me wrong its not that it was done badly its how it bluntly cuts off after that. I would have at least liked to walk around in that area and maybe speak to a few characters who were willing to actually talk even if just a few words. Its one heck of a hanger but yeah... I feel like one more bit even if it was only full of talk would and morning would have been fine.

I don't think Aurene is gone for good though, simply too many key factors say otherwise.

1: **no big boom**

As all dragons with any remote amount of power even "Vlast" went boom on death and he was not an elder dragon, Even other powerful creatures with high levels of magic went boom. Joko even had mini boom that flashed the room and Balthazar had a big boom when he died. Aurene had no boom. While it can be argued that we simply couldn't see it i don't think its a detail that would have been left out otherwise.

2: **Glint spoke of "Ascension"**

Which is the first time I can ever recall that word has been used in relation to Aurene which makes me think that her visions were true but misleading in the previous chapter. There was no way to avoid this fate she has suffered. But why Glint had to know this was going to happen other wise things would have been presented differently perhaps she told Aurene this would happen during that moment when we were split away from her in the trials

3: **I don't feel like we utilized everything from the trials.**

Too much feels like it was just missing. There were some key things we used but some things we didnt use. I hope we will see use of these things in the future as part of the process to bring her back. Its obvious she is going to come back to me anyways. The world has no choice other wise we should have just let balth do the job for us. His ghostly ass is probably rolling around in laughter at our pain and suffering right now.

~~Hoooppeeeefully anet does not take the ez way out and go "Cause she ate joko" she can come back to life cause absorbing magical properties. ~~I hope we can get something a bit deeper than that.

**My only other critica**l feedback would be why this episode was so short for the amount of time it took to release. With as short as this episode was I almost expect to see a follow up next month even if its in a pre existing map ore older maps.

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> Being a spvp player as well as PvE one i think the real solution here is to boost base fear durations in PvE only. In spvp and WvW boon corrupts serve as random, yet viable sources of fear, and having ppl run 4s from a single fear cast (while we have many ways to do this) could be broken, especially with scourges stacking in groups.

>

> As for runes - well there are the setups without fear of death. I do agree however that 20% extra fear duration on rune of necromancer is pathetic, seeing that we have 100% fear duration trait and runes that grant 20% and above all condi duration, not just fear.

>

> Maybe if it was something like bonus effect on fearing an enemy, instead of 20% duration that serves no purpose compared to better runes...

confusion on inflicting fear #maketerrorgreatagain

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > we need some kind of control like pets do, just because they are minions doesn't mean you can't control them.

> > better yet, the whole point of being a necromancer is that you control the undead.

>

> Not necessarily. Just because you can animate/raise dead things doesn't necessarily mean absolute control over them.

Zhaitan disagrees with you strongly :angry:

kralkatorrik also now disagrees with you strongly complements of Zhaitan :astonished:

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> One thing i can say about last set of balance changes is that Terrormancer is finally back in business, ty a-net for making him viable again in spvp :)

>

> The spectral ring is awesome - such a simple change yet so much impact! No longer a niche chokepoint usage skill, spectral ring has a ton of uses and plays. Excellent change.

> Fear of Death is what sealed the deal for terrormancer's return. The full 100% fear duration and life force generation allow to get some life force on a condi build (infamous achilles' heel for condi necros) and provides build diversity - with maxed fear duration outta the box, one can choose to ignore condition duration in favor of other stats for more diverse builds, like bruiser-y terror mancer that does less damage but has more sustain for more decap oriented build, rather then do-or-die pure damage machine.

Still need to fix it so that it increases base duration instead of working like expertise or they now need to change runes with fear duration to boost a different stat as you cant over cap the 100% duration.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > I would actually rather see more weapon skills that apply marks. Considering **Marks** are categorized as their own unique type of skill much like guardian symbols and Mesmer clones or phantoms .

> >

> > "Clone" Skills are scattered throughout all weapons on mesmer along with "Phantom skills"

> > "Symbols" are scattered throughout all weapons options of guardian.

> >

> > Necromancer "Marks" on the other hand are only on staff and not on any other weapons or utilities. Its almost like Marks were the first type of unique skills to be made in the game and the developers got smarter about spreading similar things out across other weapons on other classes rather than leaving 1 weapon with all of them.

> >

> > How no one has noticed and not brought this up is beyond me.

>

> _Lich form_ used to have "marks" which is why there is a "marks" trait. It sure is now pretty irrelevant in the context of the current game though.

>

You know i forgot about those (i dont use lich as often tehse days.) But you are right.

> Anyway, _grasping dead_, _enfeebling blood_ or the "old" _unholy feast_ could have been transformed into marks if it was a concern. (Even _putrid explosion_ could very well be transformed into a mark)

You know those are not half bad ideas. I would have loved or would still love to see those incorporated as marks. Across other weapons.

>

> The same way they could transform a few of the staff marks into regular skill and it would most likely benefit the weapon skillset (for example, _putrid mark_ and _reaper's mark_ would be good candidates for self centered aoe effect, while _chillblain_ don't really need to be an aoe skill).

I would love for necro staff to get the guardian treatment as far as auto chains, and knocking off some of the lesser marks int better skills. Outrid and reapers mark would be good to remain for aoe effect but mark of blood and chilblain I would be totally fine with dropping for something with a bit more punch regardless if its offensive or utility.

I would actually rather see more weapon skills that apply marks. Considering **Marks** are categorized as their own unique type of skill much like guardian symbols and Mesmer clones or phantoms .

"Clone" Skills are scattered throughout all weapons on mesmer along with "Phantom skills"

"Symbols" are scattered throughout all weapons options of guardian.

Necromancer "Marks" on the other hand are only on staff and not on any other weapons or utilities. Its almost like Marks were the first type of unique skills to be made in the game and the developers got smarter about spreading similar things out across other weapons on other classes rather than leaving 1 weapon with all of them.

How no one has noticed and not brought this up is beyond me.

> @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> I imagine this could be part of the Blood tree. Imagine having the ability to take your life steals, like Dagger 2, and share the ticks with your party.

Blood already has a fair amount of support built into it

- protection from bleed out while downed

- instant well heal and percent healing on downed allies

- droplet healing while doing dps vai vampiric aura

- Tons of healing to allies via transfusion / life from death etc etc.

- Healing and protection via Well skills.

The support is already there technically it does not need anymore.

IF you want more support than this scourge should be the key factor to bolster the support role but it kind of fails at that job it does do it but not quite enough it wont do what druid does. I dont think core is the place to be adding anymore support to be honest.

Want more support start coming up with ideas to do it on scourge.

Just make it apply the ending hit damage for any hits it lands more often than not golem wont ever get the ending hit on another player due to just running over and past them If he stopped on impact like bulls charge maybe or something but i think transforming into golem would be such a waste.

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> so its clear that anet wants to make class more unique and team composition more versatile.

>

> what do you guys think about this direction

>

> boons - each class hold several major boons abilities and minor ones

> major boons abilities - share with 10 allies, longer duration like 5 sec base, higher stacks application.

> minor boons abilities - share up to 5 allies , shorter duration like 2 sec base, lower stacks

>

> same goes for conditions - each class have major dmg conditions specialty and minor for cover ones.

>

> **Guard**

> major - stability, aegis and retaliation

> minor - regen, protection swiftness and might

>

> main burn dmg with minor cover conditions

>

> **Warrior**

> major - stability, might, fury

> minor - swiftness

> main bleeding and confusion condition and minor cover conditions

>

> **Revenant**

> those boons based on legends so not all available at the same time

>

> major - regen, protection, might, fury and swiftness

> minor - stability, resistance, alacrity and vigor

>

> main torment and burning condition with minor cover conditions

>

> **thief**

> major - none

> minor - might, fury and vigor

>

> main poison and bleeding condition with minor cover conditions

>

> **Ranger**

> major - none

> minor - vigor, fury, swiftness and regen

>

> main poison and burning condition with minor cover conditions

>

> **Engi**

> major - retaliation

> minor - quickness, swiftness and fury

>

> main poison and confusion condition with minor cover conditions

>

> **Ele**

> major - regen, protection, might and swiftness

> minor - vigor, fury and stability

>

> main bleed and burn condition with minor cover conditions

>

> **Necro**

> major - none

> minor - might and swiftness

>

> main torment and bleed condition with minor cover conditions

>

> **Mesmer**

> major - quickness, vigor and alacrity

> minor - retaliation, stability, might and swiftness

>

> main torment and confusion condition with minor cover conditions

>

Necro would have **protection** as a minor actually and it likely will become a major along with **might** if anet does this rework correctly so yeah...

And it would be **bleed / torment** with **major** cover conditions instead of minor cover like you have generalized for everything else.

In your list i think mesmer still has too much they should **lose alot of pretty much every boon** they can currently produce, and literally only be focused mostly on **quickness** and **alacrity** as their strongest sharable boons. THOSE 2 boons alone are strong enough to be worth more than every other boon in the game combined. Those kinds of boons are game changing boons that will for ever keep them in the meta for end game content.

Ele also has slightly too much in your list i dont think they will be sharing might and fury maybe regen and protection.

> @"Akrasia.5469" said:

> Wail of Doom should be a radius effect. Thematically it makes sense as it is a sound like shouts are. It is a perfect candidate for giving necro an active "defense like" skill (because we don't seem to get blocks or the like) even if it's not a true defense mechanic. The main problem with it is the cone shape. If it was a radius effect it could interrupt all in the parameter in the middle of a spike. Being unblockable helps. The ring shape helped for Spectral Ring and I think it would help for Wail of Doom. Thoughts?

The buff to spectral ring was questionable because the wall could fear people indefinitely an unlimited number of times while the ring covers more space and can act as a trap at best you are only likely to get 2 fears per single target assuming your placement is perfect and they walk in from the out side then out side from the inner ring. Dont get me wrong its a good change but it simply should not be used as means to assume everything is better as an AOE

A roundabout AOE on this skill could mean

- a shorter daze

- its no longer unblockalbe

- its no longer a daze

- the ranger is much smaller

- the cooldown is higher

- it comes with a negative cost to the necromancer for using it.

Remember not everything is better as an all around you AOE and you have other options that can achieve a similar effect

If you need this effect just use **"Chilled to the Bone"** same thing as what you are suggesting but a bit stronger and can be cancelled to force dodges due to how overly visible its tell tail is.

As for this idea i don't think war horn needs it considering its a magical focused attack thematically it makes sense that it only goes in the direction you point the horn rather than out in an aoe. Its not the same as warrior war horn where its more of a **"thematic inspire your allies to fight"** kinda skill which should blast out in a aoe around you. This attack is meant to hurt people directly in its focused path of fire and so just makes sense that it does stronger effect at the cost of having to aim it. A single deep breath from the casters lungs and excellent craft and use of the dark arts. Its meant to daze anyone who falls in its focused point it with its loud disrupting wail.

I did suggest in one of my elite spec proposal things some months a go that the new shroud get a skill on skill 3 (which is usually the cc skill) called Vocal minority.

I think it was something like Strip defensive boons and daze nearby foes for some nasty period of time with the primary boons to be removed being stab and protection.

> @"killfil.3472" said:

> Should be a fear...

Only if fear gets a buff to being a hard control effect and not a condition that can be ignored (we have been over this a few times now)

> @"Akrasia.5469" said:

>

> I have 3 ideas to make Shroud more defensive in the way that we need.

> 1. Give shroud skill charges (like Blood is Power has). Either by trait or by default let us go in and out of shroud in an instant but increase recharge time to 12s.

I dont know why shroud would need charges unless your going to turn into something similar to warriors zerker mode which imo removes player control and gates out shroud once charges are gone I think the shroud system as far as access an availability are ok. Its other areas that need help

- life force generation beyond weapon skills

- life force generation in extended fights where nothing is dying

- having more active defenses across utility and or weapon skills that are not simply conditions that can be ignored like fear, weakness, chill.

> 2. Give 1s of invulnerability upon entering shroud and 1 additional second if LF is full on entering. This would be a good death magic GM trait.

Wont do much good I think there can be something more creative and active done across a wider range of areas rather than just a flat 1 second invuln ontop of the other shroud entry effects. Certainly not worth a grand master trait in my opinion.

> 3. Have all damage that brings a necro out of shroud reduced to 0 and invulnerability for 1/2 sec. So no instant death on exit. Another DM GM trait?

I dont understand this at all either once again I dont see how this will help for such a short period of time and we can probably use better tools across a wide range of other areas that solve the defensive problem better. Also why another GM trait the death magic GM traits area actually pretty solid as is some of them just have bad numbers but mechanically they would be decent traits if the numbers were correctly balanced to provide the sustain death magic is suppose to provide.

>

> Any thought on the original proposals?

Those are my thoughts