Crozame.4098

But its fine, its overall a company that needs to make money. And people in PvE matters more.

Less and less people cares about PvP after the wonderful and full of content announcement. All the people in my small pvp community went to other games. And I have not start my placement yet. You know the pvp is dead when after more than one month into the season, plat 1 is top 250 in the EU server.

> @"Flandre.2870" said:

> 

> I'm back with an updated tier list.

> Short info: teamfight comps suck this patch, mesmer thief warrior are all unkillable and have way better class mechanics than rest of the specs.

> Condi thief, mirage and spb are absolutely broken and rotational comp is superior at the moment.

> Power thief is godlike because every team has 2-4 CI mirages and having matchup into the best class in the meta makes core thief S tier.

> Holo still ridic strong( the only class without good matchups that survives this meta)

> Good FB is still amazing value.

> DH back in the meta since it counters both thieves and mirages which spread like a plague this patch.

> Core necro>Scourge

> Weaver although it does well into m irage lacks damage output and has hard time winning anything.

> If you want to get an idea of comps people run here is what people run during the FINALS of today's AT.

> 

> Team of ultranumb that played standard fb/scourge/herald teamfight comp lost to a 4 mirage team that didn't even make fianls.

>

Nice image yet no Warriors. If there are so many mirages, war should not be on the top tier. And holo is not S. Maybe this is AT not ranked.

> @"Nilkemia.8507" said:

> What, the risk of overheating, losing nearly half of one's HP due to burning up, AND having toolbelt skills disabled isn't enough? A holoforge is basically screwed if they overheat, and now you want to make it worse when no other profession has to deal with such a mechanic from overusing their profession skills? No.

Played holo only two times, never overheated (you have nearly perma vigor). And does a lot of dmg. Pls, dont try to defend how broken holo is.

Just unfun to play against. Even can hold 2 DMG classes on a node for quite a long time,

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> >

> > >

> > > > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > > Also, there are plenty of alt accounts. For example, you saw the other team has a scourge but no support and the scourge is not on the leaderboard. But you find it never dies, kite like hell, and does a lot of dmg. Later you found on the twitch that the scourge is Posi's alt and he was duo quing. This is just an example. But yea, but this kind of games will get you a 50-500 game and get -13 or even -16.

> > > >

> > > I've got plenty of theories about the who/what/why of this match. But I think the real question is how does Anet allow this to happen?

> > >

> >

> > I am not saying about your particular case, but in general. Recently had many games 50-500 and -13+

> >

>

> That’s like 90% of games, sadly.

>

> OP, there is not enough people queuing. It probably is 10-15 players queuing with 5 minute time frame or so. Add to that some highly rated players manipulate the system by having one of them que on an alt account with no or bad rating, to game the rating.

>

> If you are looking for fair well balanced PvP experience, GW2 is not the game for you.

Nah, simply enjoy the fighting mechanics. But wish to have higher quality games.

>

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > Also, there are plenty of alt accounts. For example, you saw the other team has a scourge but no support and the scourge is not on the leaderboard. But you find it never dies, kite like hell, and does a lot of dmg. Later you found on the twitch that the scourge is Posi's alt and he was duo quing. This is just an example. But yea, but this kind of games will get you a 50-500 game and get -13 or even -16.

> >

> I've got plenty of theories about the who/what/why of this match. But I think the real question is how does Anet allow this to happen?

>

I am not saying about your particular case, but in general. Recently had many games 50-500 and -13+

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > Support fb in ranked isn't really good. Necros are even worse.

> >

> > Still, I prefer my team has scourge + FB and the other team has scourge + core guardian.

>

> I guess it depends on map and rating. On maps like khylo and legacy, I'd probably take an fb over a core guard. On forest I would most definitely go for the core.

it also depends whether other teammembers know how to rotate, but at p1/p2, still many players dont know how to rotate the map. For example, many players know should play sides, fail to notice its not about playing sides, but to move fast when there is a teamfight. So its not only about sides, but disengage whenever the FB adn Scourge are present, and try to out rotate, in this case, its rotating fast among all the nodes, not only sides.

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> Support fb in ranked isn't really good. Necros are even worse.

Still, I prefer my team has scourge + FB and the other team has scourge + core guardian.

ANET, please consider this. Had many games when the other team switched to Support FB and the game went to a stomp.

Also, there are plenty of alt accounts. For example, you saw the other team has a scourge but no support and the scourge is not on the leaderboard. But you find it never dies, kite like hell, and does a lot of dmg. Later you found on the twitch that the scourge is Posi's alt and he was duo quing. This is just an example. But yea, but this kind of games will get you a 50-500 game and get -13 or even -16.

First of all, I think it is very good that ANET decided to ban CI temporarily from PvP. I think this is a good strategy in general. I am not talking about one particular skill or class, although in this case it affects mirage. But imagine in the next balance patches, ANET creates something else that is broken, we need not to wait for months again. Therefore, I really appreciate this new strategy of offering "hot fixes".

Second, maybe provide some pvp tips on loading screens. WOW did this very long time ago (level cap 70). But I am not sure it still does it. But I think good tips from ANET is much better than other sources. The reason is that sPvP in GW2 is relatively harder than for example WOW. The reason is that a) in WOW arena is team based and people communicate all the time. b) it is not only about mechanical kills, also about matchups and map rotation. Even more, map rotation is also situational, which depends on the map, enemy comp, and the points. This seems making tips impossible, but ANET can at least make some very general statements: For example. It is bad to run into 1v3. Or as a support it is bad to help another support on the enemy held node. Or, sometimes it is better to giveup the node and kite around and hence live longer. I remember some good players posed a thread on this, which is very nice.

Third is about match making. I agree with ANET that should not ban class swapping. But it might be a good idea to ban players to choose healing related traits, amulets, especially when both teams have at least one necro. I encounter many cases in which both teams have 1-2 scourges but only one team has a support FB, and the other team has a core guardian. In this case, skill rating does not matter much anymore. The team with the FB has a huge advantage. Of course, if one team has 1-2 scourges and a FB, but the other team has more mobility, then its fine.

And last, to reduce wintrading. Please ban core accounts in ranked. Of course, I have no issues with core profession, just core accounts.

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > I will keep saying this every time; patch is better than no patch, the problem is that they dont come often enough. I'm glad that Anet is deciding to patch PvP. Whether it is enough or the right changes, thats another topic.

> >

> > I just find it odd that a videogame receives praises for doing something I think should be baseline, it just doesnt right with me.

>

> Doesn't mean I can't appreciate a good patch when I see one.

> At least they targeted the correct issues this time....although one could argue that it didnt go far enough for some classes *cough* Warrior and Holo *cough*

>

> But obviously every single nerf made every class "literally unplayable".

mention Holo is enough. They also did not nerf fire weaver:)

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > >

> > > > I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

> > >

> > > Not sure what merit that statement has.

> > > Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

> > >

> > > Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.

> > > But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.

> > > But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

> > >

> >

> > Cant give weaver more sustain,,

>

> you are in for a treat tomorrow , my friend

>

>

Still calling me a friend:)

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

>

> > I'll reserve my opinion until I see what actually comes from all of the big reworks, but if we do end up with a tanky meta, I'll be disappointed since that just leads to really boring and frustrating games with people that just never die.

>

> Not sure what merit that statement has.

> Bunker scrapper got nerfed, chrono bunker got nerfed, weaver essentially only dmg buffs.

>

> Overall dmg from the prominent burst classes got nerfed (soulbeast and herald) so Firebrand prolly will have an easier time.

> But other than that I don't see a bunker meta emerging, since the sidenoders will just be as susceptible to +1s as before.

> But maybe im just talking BS here ....I dunno

>

Weaver dmg buffs not enough? Maybe still not high enough? But whatelse you want? Cant give weaver more sustain,,

A key part of the sPvP is match making, and you try complicated algorithms trying to make the match making balanced. But, I mean, why in so many games there is one side with FB and scourge and the other side maybe have a core guard. In this case, in this meta, the game will be very imbalanced by the comp itself, even if the skill level of both games is somewhat balanced.

This is a big problem. I think a FB can compensate at least 50 rank point differences, especially when one comp is FB + Scourge and the other is Core guard/ DH + Scourge. this is part of the reason why the sPvP is not fun. I have numerous games this season where the other team has scourge + FB and we have nothing, and its very hard to fight because in ranked where people cannot communicate effectively even plat 1, 2 people dont know how to rotate and try to avoid teamfights. Yes, there are games where the other team have scourege+fb+scrapper. Totally not fun, and at this comp, its not about skill, its about the comp.

Also, should stop allowing people switch to heal amulet/rune etc after pop. but people are free to choose other classes. This would address most of the downsides of completely ban switching classes after game pop.

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > @"Dahkeus.8243" said:

> > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief passive playstyle? Eh.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no arguing possible because Vault is not **it simply IS NOT** in any way or universe, a dangerous or annoying skill, it is easily avoidable, easily interuptable skill that locks thief in to "punish and delete thief now" state/animation that can not be canceled or even ported from, it even has a kitten glowing aura to shout outloud when to do it. Doesn't matter what you tell yourself about it, it is a joke of a skill.

> > > Why are you defending this brainless evade spam ? Spam vaults, spam evades,spam staff 3 while jumping to abuse evade frames without rolling back while doing damage on top and this is REALLY ANNOYING. OP said its about ANNOYING and if you disagree that is annoying keep your opinion to yourself and stop to impose your opinion to everyone.

> >

> > In your universe thief has infinite initiative? We playing different game? DrD can use Vault **twice** before he runs out of Initiative. That a spam? I just dont understand how a gameplay that makes thief get deleted equals being annoying to someone, if thief spams Staff 3 or 5 it is Christmas time.

> > I find it funny how anyone can share their opinion here but I cant cuz I disagree according to you, logic level average forum user.

> > It is people like you who think that Thief can somehow spam skills like Vault even though its complete BS, who most obviously never even played Thief that got Thief chained in to the role its stuck with for almost 7 years now.

> The same way 99% of "average level forum users" clones are OP and impossible to find real memser and have perma of everything despite it not being true.

> Thier has extreme amount of evade, literally highest in the game, acro boosted perma vigor and staff trait gives endurance back when initiative spent, even heal gives evade,utility that gives more intiative and evade, DS(oh also passive invul on 50% as adept tier?) - all that not annoying and makes thief deleted?

> All this bounds looks exact the same as vault and its all more about evade spam rather than just vault exclusively if you dont get it.

> Its your 4rd post where you trying to impose your opinion on stuff that people find annoying for THEM, not YOU.

Thanks for pointing out that they have heal, signet, and other sources to gain endurance~~

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> Rule#1:

> If in doubt: Rampage

Rule 2: Dont use it if others have stoneheart:)

> @"AlexPlay.8436" said:

> >Weaver: too many evades & Stab gained from stances

>

> lol, stab from stances does not work already long time on weaver... look to bugs forum,

> I may consider that you just want to find a reason to to complain?

I would say suggestions, but whatever mate It's a circle., I think some builds / traits not fun, I post it, and you think I am an idiot. Man, there must be cases that you think some other builds are not fun, but in that case you are absolutely and people who defend are idiots~~ God like logic styles.

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > D/D Daredevil?! STAFF DAREDEVIL?!?!?!?

> > >

> > > * Attack that deals spike-level damage and also evades during its attack animation.

> > > * Extra dodges for zero investment.

> > > * A protracted block that breaks stuns when it is activated.

> > > * All this on top of the already "zero-timing and zero-positioning necessary" Thief frame.

> > >

> > > Just because it doesn't rule PvP with an iron fist doesn't mean that it isn't a cancer-inducing opponent with a brutally straightforward and very passive playstyle.

> > >

> > >

> > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> > > > Weaver needs those evades to survive. If we don't have the evades we end up like core ele and Tempest: garbage.

> > > >

> > > > So unless you want to give me a severe buff in skills, cd reductions, trait rework or the like, then no we don't care if we have evades as long as everyone else does brain less, drool on the keyboard damage.

> > >

> > > A Weaver PvP playstyle is literally just a PvE-level rotation; the moment that they are engaged in a fight, they instantly start using the same series of skills entirely sustained by passive evasion. It's incredibly predictable. It's no less brainless than any other meta build on the market regardless of how effective it is in any given encounter. Your comment falls into the same category as the guy crying about how Daredevil can be considered a frustrating opponent: it's an incredibly frustrating playstyle because it effortlessly and consistently takes away the agency of an opponent by simply pressing some attack buttons at any given time. Just because it doesn't slam everyone in PvP with just a glance doesn't mean that it isn't derived from an awful, generic design which contributes to an unhealthy PvP environment.

> >

> > But then there's the problem of WHAT OTHER BUILD CAN WE PLAY? You tell me a healthier way to play this class without it being completely out of meta than I'll actually believe Weaver as an actual toxic design like the rest. Also passive evasion? Where? Actually where? Ele had their passives gutted back in HoT and Twist of Fate, from what I remember, is an ACTIVE skill.

> >

> > So when you list out passive evades, I'll consider your comment. And no, passive arcane shield is not an 'evade' either. The only class that has passive evades is thief.

>

> There is no alternative, but that does not mean that the weaver play style is healthy. Weaver as a spec is actually terribly designed for PvP and WvW and I really hope that the devs design the next ele spec with competitive play in mind. Weaver would be terrible for competitive play if it was good because it is a spec that relies on rotations. You cannot stop that without completely reworking the spec. This is because the 4 sec delay on getting to your 4 and 5 skills makes it incredibly difficult to properly react to your opponent's plays. You are also encouraged to swap attunements as soon as possible to get to your other skills, which means rotational play instead of saving skills and using them at the correct time. Basically the entire spec is a mess that will never be satisfying for both the one playing it nor the opponent. It also doesn't help that ele skills tend to be pretty bad across the board. Dual skills are especially guilty of not being good enough, since they are almost purely offensive skills with no other variety. Basically filler skills that trap you into a rotation even more.

Finally someone who understand what I want to convey... We all want the PvP to be great again arent we, otherwise I would have spend my limited time in the PvE forums or other more meaning activities~

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > D/D Daredevil?! STAFF DAREDEVIL?!?!?!?

> >

> > Whats your problem? D/D Daredevil spam dodge and dagger 3, all evades while does dmg. For Staff its staff 5 and dodge.

> > What you look so surprised? Also you need to understand, I am not saying they are OP, they are just annoying.

>

> I said it once already but I'll say it again: Also didn't say its OP, but considering those "annoying" suggests trouble dealing with, which I find very hard to believe, especially in the case of Staff DD.

> I can for the sake of compromise agree that D/D Daredevil is annoying even without being hard to deal with, but Staff DD? No way.

Who said I find staff DD hard to fight against? Its just one example of the builds that does dmg while evading, and I think that mechanic in general is not fun, hence annoying. For the Staff DD in particular, I dont enjoy fighting it, even when I can win most of the matchup.. But hey again, you can read what I wrote whatever you want~~

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> >

> > Thief passive playstyle? Eh.

> >

> > There is no arguing possible because Vault is not **it simply IS NOT** in any way or universe, a dangerous or annoying skill, it is easily avoidable, easily interuptable skill that locks thief in to "punish and delete thief now" state/animation that can not be canceled or even ported from, it even has a kitten glowing aura to shout outloud when to do it. Doesn't matter what you tell yourself about it, it is a joke of a skill.

> >

>

> Ever stop to think how silly it must seem for someone to throw a tantrum about how a skill has some remote attempt at being fairly telegraphed (despite still being relatively easy to land and giving its user a free damage negation period)? It speaks a lot about how damaged the GW2 playerbase is at this stage of the game's lifespan.

Yes, you are the perfect example to illustrate your statement.

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> D/D Daredevil?! STAFF DAREDEVIL?!?!?!?

Whats your problem? D/D Daredevil spam dodge and dagger 3, all evades while does dmg. For Staff its staff 5 and dodge.

What you look so surprised? Also you need to understand, I am not saying they are OP, they are just annoying.

Emphasize again. I am not discussing whether the builds / classes are OP or not, I simply think they are not fun, and should be adjusted.

dagger/dagger condi daredevil; or staff daredevil to a lesser extent. Just spam evasions and do dmg. Pistol Whip (spam 3 to evade and do dmg, its also a stun right?) similar.

Various oneshot soulbeast builds (long bow, GS, Axe etc.) Long bow 4 2 from 1200+ ranges, most classes wont survive this single burst. Also GS2 does ton of dmg. Combine these with unblockable trait and pet F2 F3, basically if not careful you are dead.

The semi random pet cc, is really nice.

and forget to add: as a full zerker build have access to 2-3 stealth. long leaps. invuls, very nice and very balanced (OPPs)

Engi/Holo: Some builds have stealth (belt skills), 6 seconds of stealth might to too long? 3 might be better.

Also, Holo 3 has 6 second CD too low... increase to 8 or 10 would be better.

Scrapper: Just not fun, requires no skill and hard to kill.

Weaver: too many evades & Stab gained from stances

Rev: sword 5 has no animation... Give the second hit an animation, instead of reduce its dmg...

Rampage: it makes war vs. war duels not fun. Also some engi builds.

Mirage: the scepter (sword)/pistol staff build is pure stupid. It literally requires no skill at all. To give more details: staff 2, staff 5 random cc and Agis, scepter 2 like 6 second cd? And of course, the trait that generate clones when you dodge and yes, without internal CD. With only 2-3 games of game play, I can actually 1v1 very good players. This should not be the case in any case.

Scrapper and FB: Imagine the other team has a FB and scrapper. They are unkillable in 1v1s, which is justifiable. But the issue is that they survive way too long in 1v2s.

The condi version of the FB: I find it very hard to figure out what skills they are using from the animation. But maybe its just me.

Scourges: all the F2-F5s are instant (same to mirage), hard to see what they have used (but after playing a few games as scourge, sort of can figure it out.) Staff, no way to know which mark they have used. I think to a lesser extent, the other weapon set.

Match making: you are making complex algorithms trying to balance teams, in most cases its fine. But a core guard against a Support Fireband puts the former team into disadvantage. And yes, class switching before start sort of partly ruin your effort to make balance games. Recently GM replied to a post saying the benefit of allowing class switch outweights its downsides. But maybe a solution is to allow switching for most classes/builds, but do not allow switching to support FB or ELE etc, and maybe ban switching to healing amulet/sigils. At least in this way, most players can do their PvE stuff while waiting for the game to start.

PS: It's soo hilarious of how people defend their classes. I am simply saying its not fun and need some adjustments, which means nerf, buff or completely rework, and this offend people.

PS: ANET GJ of not addressing the stupidity of chaotic condi mirage. After 30 mins of game play, I can win a top weaver 1v1, and can win gold3 -plat1 level wars, with dont even have a chance. Very nice class.

Time zones mate....