Crozame.4098

> @"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said:

> > > > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > > While Rampage deserves a proper nerf, but isnt three of five skills now can only do less than 50 dmg a bit too much?

> > > > Make the dmg to 1/3 or even 1/4 should be enough, but instead you make it 1/100.... Hard to understand the logic. Now the rampage cannot win the 1v1 the Gazelle.

> > > >

> > > I've try it and..... 1 still does 4-6 k damages, you still have many cc in 1 button, still have damages reduction and stab.

> > >

> > > Many classes will kill to have the half of the actual rampage........

> > >

> > >

> > Are you sure? I would trade stealth and chrono burst for that, I would trade the 3333 spam pw and its elite for that, I would trade the passive game style of mirage, I would also trade for the millions of conditions and heal from symbolband, and I would also trade for the burst dmg, the port, the dodges, and the 3 second quickness and remove stab every 9 seconds.

>

>

> Power chrono, it's a combination of actions (like when war chain cc + hits), i don't understand what you mean with the "Passive" game style of mirage ?? semi ok with you for the symbol firebrand but it's a tradoff between classes and No heavy classe had stealth by the way

>

> Otherwise, maybe you have to play those classes and stop playing with War if you want what they have.

TO be very honest, I actually played Mirage and Symbolband.

The first time I played Mirage, I can win a very good weaver player. Its so simple, spam clones, and when the opponents are close, staff 2 or port away. And after 30 mins, I can beat a lot of wars.

I also tried symbolband. One main issue is the skill that grants 3 charges of blind, weakness and other conditions. Combines with other condition output, its just a nightmare for any melee class. And also, it takes about 70 games of symbolband to win a MAT (someone said that on forum, not me.).

Its really hard to understand how people reason on gaming forums.. Maybe should play less games mate.

> @"Zagerus.8675" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Zagerus.8675" said:

> > > Tbh I think it's fine. It's still best in slot for the variety of ways that you can use it. Hard cleave for downs (need to dodge corrupts when they are present,) skillshotting a big cast/heal skill at mid with boulder, dash and stomp for kiting ect. There are still lots of mechanical ways outside of the missing damage that you can try to outplay fights with the skills. I don't miss the damage that much.

> >

> > What other choices war have? Usually boulder it get blocked by FBs.

> > Again, as I said, nerfing the dmg is fine by me. But nerfing it to nearly 0 dmg is too much.

> >

>

> Well as long as other hard CC skills get looked at I think there's a certain character to having these skills hit 20-30 lol AHEM [Jade Winds](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jade_Winds "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jade_Winds") I don't disagree that the nerfs sting but hey what can we do? Can only accept and adapt really. I'm not sure that the damage will ever be coming back in PvP.

You are right. but remain silent is a weakly dominated strategy.

> Hell, let's throw in [Prime Light Beam](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prime_Light_Beam "Prime Light Beam") to compare against. Prime Light Beam is a single, unblockable CC available twice as often as Rampage (untraited). It can do a lot of damage, but won't instantly kill most opponents without some serious buffs. The [Dash](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dash_(Rampage) "Dash") skill on Rampage (prior to the patch) could do almost as much damage as Prime Light Beam, and that's only one of the five skills in the package.

Seriously, lol. OMG... SO holos dont use other skills to chain their CC. only wars do funny.

> @"Zagerus.8675" said:

> Tbh I think it's fine. It's still best in slot for the variety of ways that you can use it. Hard cleave for downs (need to dodge corrupts when they are present,) skillshotting a big cast/heal skill at mid with boulder, dash and stomp for kiting ect. There are still lots of mechanical ways outside of the missing damage that you can try to outplay fights with the skills. I don't miss the damage that much.

What other choices war have? Usually boulder it get blocked by FBs.

Again, as I said, nerfing the dmg is fine by me. But nerfing it to nearly 0 dmg is too much.

> The staff 5 of rev is a one time use medium damage chain knock-back which requires you to use staff, which in turn locks 5 weapon skills . The fact you even bring this up to compare to a single slot skill which outperforms is funny to me. You are correct, it should not matter if it's an elite skill or not. In this case committing to 5 skills for a way worse weapon skill is not favoring a rebalance of rampage.

Rampage is an elite skill that locks my elite skill slot, and a trait to reduce its CD. Your logic is very funny but w/e. People can hold their own Opinions.

About crowd control skills: I think REV shyro elite also does quite a bit of dmg. and Holo 5 also does a quite a lot of dmg. Ah, the DH trap Elite, crowd control and ton of dmg. So, whats your point? And they all have shorter CD?

> Your point?

My point is that they are not ports or fact projectiles and is not possible to avoid. Thats all. And, I hold my shield stance for that. Rev has staff block, tons of dodges on Sheyro; Holo has elixir; Mirage and blind away; thiefs can spam 3 or elite, and the elite's cd is much shorter in expected terms because of reset by steal. Symbolband can block blind, renewal; necro can currupt the stab turn it into fear (and by the way, they SHOULD loose to wars in 1v1s, because of different roles.)

> @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > > > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > > > > "Oh no, I have to use my brain while in rampage now"

> > > >

> > > > Really curious how much brain you use in sPvP.

> > >

> > > So you want to deny my message? :)

> >

> > Nah. I am not sure about silver or gold. But when I was playing, I can get punished by brainlessly pop rampage and use all the skills without thought. But I am still curious.

>

> Weren't you crying about the rampage nerf? It's still the strongest offensive elite in this game. (P3 DH btw)

I am not crying, I simply said:

1) Rampage should be nerfed. And reducing the dmg on CC skills is a good idea.

2) But imo it is a bit too far. It does at most 40 dmg.

As a DH, I dont see any issues fighting wars. But w/e. P4 War btw

Also, but its not the strongest offensive skill in general.

> @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Tharan.9085" said:

> > > "Oh no, I have to use my brain while in rampage now"

> >

> > Really curious how much brain you use in sPvP.

>

> So you want to deny my message? :)

Nah. I am not sure about silver or gold. But when I was playing, I can get punished by brainlessly pop rampage and use all the skills without thought. But I am still curious.

> @"Tharan.9085" said:

> "Oh no, I have to use my brain while in rampage now"

Really curious how much brain you use in sPvP.

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > While Rampage deserves a proper nerf, but isnt three of five skills now can only do less than 50 dmg a bit too much?

> > > Make the dmg to 1/3 or even 1/4 should be enough, but instead you make it 1/100.... Hard to understand the logic. Now the rampage cannot win the 1v1 the Gazelle.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I got a question is there any high damage skill in rampage? and if so which?

> >

>

> The auto attack and I think the charge

Try the rampage auto, its soo slow without quickness.

Also check the charge, its not a port.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sorry, all I see is a grossly overpowered elite getting toned down to reasonable levels, and compared to other class overpowered elite nerfs in the past, warrior got off lightly.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Really? Berzeker never came back after the nerf. And this dmg nerf is 1/1000 of the original dmg. PLease name some similar nerfs.

> > > > >

> > > > > The skills main use was its cc, the damage was only grossly on top. The cc is still in place.

> > > >

> > > > ok, so you also want to remove the cc? Whats your point? There are plenty of skills which have shorter CD, that CC and do dmg.....

> > >

> > > Please name ANY other skill in this game, at any point in time, which did the amount of damage rampage did OR did any significant damage AND had the amount of cc Rampage has? Rampage is not 1 cc, it's multiple.

> >

> > First of all, you cannot name any similar nerfs.

> >

>

> There was no elite as overpowered as rampage as far as damage output AND cc. There was more powerful damage skills or cc skills before they got nerfed, but none combined the cc and damage the way rampage did. Feel free to name any skill which comes close.

>

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > Second, you also misunderstand my point, which was not about the nerf, but was about the intensity of the nerf. I said, the current nerf is too much: 1/1000 of the original dmg. And my point is: 1/4 should be enough.

> >

>

> and my point is: the cc it brings makes it strong enough even if it did 0 damage. You might disagree that being able to completely lock-down an opponent (with splash cc on others) is not sufficient without damage, I doubt most non warrior biased players would share that opinion.

>

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > Third, about your point: Rev sword 4 & 5 pre nerf, and the staff 5 pre nerf? Holo pre-nerf? Reaper? Scourge, the amount of tourmant pre nerf. Mirage, the amount of confusion pre-nerf. Thief, spammable condi that gives you 10+ poison in no time, or the spammable PW that stuns and also do a lot of dmg. Also, note that, rampage has a 96 second cool down (traited), while the things I mentioned was utilities or weapon skills.

>

> You are talking damage skills. I said: I'd be fine with more damage on Rampage if it lost its cc or some of it. Most of those skills you are talking about are either damage skills or in no way even close to the amount of cc Rampage (still) provides. ALL of them were also nerfed by now or are gimmick builds (like PW which actually requires an entire weapon set commitment).

>

> The fact that Rampage has a 96 second cool-down is insignificant if it allows for 15 seconds of domination. The skill would have actually been better balanced with less cc and lower cool-down. Again, 1 rampage use equals 2 knock-backs, one 2 second stun and one 2 second area knock-down. There is and never was anything comparable in this game from either a weapon skill, utility or elite skill as far as cc goes. Logic dictates, that with this amount of cc the skill is already over-stacked in purpose.

> There was no elite as overpowered as rampage as far as damage output AND cc. There was more powerful damage skills or cc skills before they got nerfed, but none combined the cc and damage the way rampage did. Feel free to name any skill which comes close.

This is not a valid argument. Elite is simply a skill, and if the skill is OP, it should be addressed. I am wondering how much dmg does the staff 5 of rev does.

> and my point is: the cc it brings makes it strong enough even if it did 0 damage. You might disagree that being able to completely lock-down an opponent (with splash cc on others) is not sufficient without damage, I doubt most non warrior biased players would share that opinion.

When I duel wars, I even have time to check whether they have annulment so that I use FC or simply dodge.

> You are talking damage skills. I said: I'd be fine with more damage on Rampage if it lost its cc or some of it. Most of those skills you are talking about are either damage skills or in no way even close to the amount of cc Rampage (still) provides. ALL of them were also nerfed by now or are gimmick builds (like PW which actually requires an entire weapon set commitment).

I am talking about OP skills in general. I mean, you guys are really interesting. Keep bring up unrelated arguments. OK, REV sword 4, 5 are nerfed, yes, but by how much? The mirage nerf on clone generation is only 1/2, and note that they have a much shorter CD. And when talking about other similar stuff, you related to gimmick builds. Whats wrong of having an entire weapons set commitment? If its strong its strong. Strength wars also take the entire weapon set for...... whats the point...

> @"Lottie.5370" said:

> I like the Rampage changes, warrior is still in a good spot. A skill that gives you 3 hard CC skills should not be doing heavy damage. Rampage is also more than CC and damage.

>

> If you can't win now because of the nerfs to it, then it's a skill issue not a nerf issue.

This kind of passive bullying is so annoying on forums. I did not say that I cannot win anymore. I simply said, I can still win the matchups. And moreover, I have all i want from sPvP. And Yes, I agree that the CC hard skills that should not do heavy dmg, but 20 dmg is a joke.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > > >

> > > > > Sorry, all I see is a grossly overpowered elite getting toned down to reasonable levels, and compared to other class overpowered elite nerfs in the past, warrior got off lightly.

> > > >

> > > > Really? Berzeker never came back after the nerf. And this dmg nerf is 1/1000 of the original dmg. PLease name some similar nerfs.

> > >

> > > The skills main use was its cc, the damage was only grossly on top. The cc is still in place.

> >

> > ok, so you also want to remove the cc? Whats your point? There are plenty of skills which have shorter CD, that CC and do dmg.....

>

> Please name ANY other skill in this game, at any point in time, which did the amount of damage rampage did OR did any significant damage AND had the amount of cc Rampage has? Rampage is not 1 cc, it's multiple.

First of all, you cannot name any similar nerfs.

Second, you also misunderstand my point, which was not about the nerf, but was about the intensity of the nerf. I said, the current nerf is too much: 1/1000 of the original dmg. And my point is: 1/4 should be enough.

Third, about your point: Rev sword 4 & 5 pre nerf, and the staff 5 pre nerf? Holo pre-nerf? Reaper? Scourge, the amount of tourmant pre nerf. Mirage, the amount of confusion pre-nerf. Thief, spammable condi that gives you 10+ poison in no time, or the spammable PW that stuns and also do a lot of dmg. Also, note that, rampage has a 96 second cool down (traited), while the things I mentioned was utilities or weapon skills.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> >

> > > Sorry, all I see is a grossly overpowered elite getting toned down to reasonable levels, and compared to other class overpowered elite nerfs in the past, warrior got off lightly.

> >

> > Really? Berzeker never came back after the nerf. And this dmg nerf is 1/1000 of the original dmg. PLease name some similar nerfs.

>

> The skills main use was its cc, the damage was only grossly on top. The cc is still in place.

ok, so you also want to remove the cc? Whats your point? There are plenty of skills which have shorter CD, that CC and do dmg.....

> @"Don Vega Van Kain.9842" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > While Rampage deserves a proper nerf, but isnt three of five skills now can only do less than 50 dmg a bit too much?

> > Make the dmg to 1/3 or even 1/4 should be enough, but instead you make it 1/100.... Hard to understand the logic. Now the rampage cannot win the 1v1 the Gazelle.

> >

> I've try it and..... 1 still does 4-6 k damages, you still have many cc in 1 button, still have damages reduction and stab.

>

> Many classes will kill to have the half of the actual rampage........

>

>

Are you sure? I would trade stealth and chrono burst for that, I would trade the 3333 spam pw and its elite for that, I would trade the passive game style of mirage, I would also trade for the millions of conditions and heal from symbolband, and I would also trade for the burst dmg, the port, the dodges, and the 3 second quickness and remove stab every 9 seconds.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > While Rampage deserves a proper nerf, but isnt three of five skills now can only do less than 50 dmg a bit too much?

> > Make the dmg to 1/3 or even 1/4 should be enough, but instead you make it 1/100.... Hard to understand the logic. Now the rampage cannot win the 1v1 the Gazelle.

> >

> >

> >

>

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > It actually looks and feels REALLY weird to me to see skills doing double digit damage that aren't mesmer clone attacks. Like 8k boulders into 10k dashes was always pretty ridiculous, but I feel like they should still be hitting for like 1kish because it just stands out as really incongruous to the rest of the entire game.

>

> The damage was nerfed too much.

>

> At the LEAST they could have just made the CC skills do some bare minimal damage like a Warrior swinging Dagger autos or something.

Or at the very very least, let it do normal dmgs to pets and clones.

> Sorry, all I see is a grossly overpowered elite getting toned down to reasonable levels, and compared to other class overpowered elite nerfs in the past, warrior got off lightly.

Really? Berzeker never came back after the nerf. And this dmg nerf is 1/1000 of the original dmg. PLease name some similar nerfs.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > While Rampage deserves a proper nerf, but isnt three of five skills now can only do less than 50 dmg a bit too much?

> > Make the dmg to 1/3 or even 1/4 should be enough, but instead you make it 1/100.... Hard to understand the logic. Now the rampage cannot win the 1v1 the Gazelle.

> >

>

> Because an elite which provides a knock-back, stun and knockdown (some of which can be used multiple times within 1 rampage duration and not all are limited to 1 player) on top of self stability and reduced movement conditions, does not need damage output.

>

> If you were relying on rampage to win you fights before by killing players before they could get out of your chain cc, you were part of the problem. The skill is still insanely strong when it comes to crowd controlling even without the damage.

Yet can also be blinded, corrupted, or kite away. I did not say it was balanced and should not be nerfed. But a nerf to close to 0 damage is simply too much. I would be happy if it does the prenerf dmg to clones or pets, but I doubt that will happen. And tbh, it does not matter much in most circumstances, classes that war can win pre-nerf still cannot beat war, and if you really think that suddenly you can win all the 1v1s against war after this patch, then you are also part of the problem.

There are also other broken things in this game that has not been addressed this radically or not been addressed at all.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > While Rampage deserves a proper nerf, but isnt three of five skills now can only do less than 50 dmg a bit too much?

> > Make the dmg to 1/3 or even 1/4 should be enough, but instead you make it 1/100.... Hard to understand the logic. Now the rampage cannot win the 1v1 the Gazelle.

> >

> >

> >

>

> you can use mouse 1, you didnt have to have this secret power but during rampage, you can actually use other abilities then stomp and rock throw, neat huh?

please learn to count first. And by the way, your comment is also not very related.

Yea, its a spam build. and its not fun.

While Rampage deserves a proper nerf, but isnt three of five skills now can only do less than 50 dmg a bit too much?

Make the dmg to 1/3 or even 1/4 should be enough, but instead you make it 1/100.... Hard to understand the logic. Now the rampage cannot win the 1v1 the Gazelle.

Symbolband also braindead class. ANd also, when you nerf dmgs, pls also balance the healing and bunker classes too

> @"coro.3176" said:

> > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > * Will you plan to look at **toning down overly rewarding safe rapid condition application?** For example conditions that are applied constantly from say mirage (and its staff auto and ambush) or super safe application practices like the more recent dare devil thief which can apply its main damaging condition by simply using skills that evade.

> >

> > How conditions are applied is a big thing that we're looking into.

> >

>

> That's good! Please remember though, that if rapid condi application is nerfed, then condi cleanse options should also be nerfed to match. It is really frustrating trying to apply my 12s cooldown blowtorch burn when my opponents have ample cleanse on a shorter cooldown via traits and other build options. I imagine if mesmer or thief are nerfed to be more like condi engi, they will face the same frustration.

>

> Thanks

Then nothing changes mate.......

1. Condi thief needs to disappear asap. It requires no skill and not fun to play against.

2. Similarly the staff staff theif should also die asap.

3. ranger random pet CC., this is also very annoying

4. One shot builds. Most classes have this.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Crozame.4098" said:

> > Still the no-brainer sword 2 dodge dodge playstyle of condi thief. What are you thinking??????

>

> Yeah not much different than any other classes cheese builds that everyone runs so.... if arnet nerfed all them to the ground than have at it with condi thief.

The condi thief is not healthy game play. It does a lot of poison in very short time, and spam evades to do dmg. Its very different than other strong builds.

Still the no-brainer sword 2 dodge dodge playstyle of condi thief. What are you thinking??????