Seera.5916
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Posts posted by Seera.5916
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> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately.
> > > > >
> > > > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing.
> > > >
> > > > So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance?
> > >
> > > 15 minutes running to tequatl is enough. WP fees are so small, you get them back gathering 1 wood node. This is not only creating artificial problem, this is creating artificial harm now.
> >
> > But you're claiming people lose nothing. Which is wrong.
> >
> > I wouldn't have created a thread for it. It is only minor griefing that has a low impact to the players involved.
> >
> > I would have reported it and hoped ANet at least put a note on their accounts that they've done it. Because where's the line of minor enough to get away with griefing? Your line is obviously at a different place than mine.
>
> What they lost is literally nothing. It's like taking a walk around the block instead of going straight home. Nobody got hurt, nobody lost rewards, event spawned normally on regular time. The only problem is that OP got offended.
Waypoint fees aren't literally nothing. Not everyone wants to take a walk around the block instead of going straight home. For me, that would be incredibly boring and not fun because I would rather be playing games or watching videos. Which is the definition of griefing: reducing/ruining the fun of someone else for the sake of reducing/ruining their fun.
People effectively lost rewards due to waypoint fees. Profit is lost.
The effect is minor, I definitely don't think that the players need to be temporarily banned or the mechanics of the guild spawn world events changed.
But as it seems that you and I just aren't going to convince the other, let's agree to disagree. Since we're both just rephrasing what we've said previously in an attempt to convince the other.
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> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits.
> > > > >
> > > > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment.
> > > >
> > > > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break.
> > > >
> > > > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately.
> > >
> > > Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing.
> >
> > So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance?
>
> 15 minutes running to tequatl is enough. WP fees are so small, you get them back gathering 1 wood node. This is not only creating artificial problem, this is creating artificial harm now.
But you're claiming people lose nothing. Which is wrong.
I wouldn't have created a thread for it. It is only minor griefing that has a low impact to the players involved.
I would have reported it and hoped ANet at least put a note on their accounts that they've done it. Because where's the line of minor enough to get away with griefing? Your line is obviously at a different place than mine.
-
> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident.
> > > > >
> > > > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished?
> > > >
> > > > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died.
> > > >
> > > > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits.
> > >
> > > All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment.
> >
> > Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break.
> >
> > The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately.
>
> Except it wasn't griefing. You lost nothing.
So waypoint fees don't exist anymore? The time spent running back to Teq has suddenly become way more fun than it is tedious? Having to go to a repair station or use a repair canister sooner than you expected for your play style/skill level is suddenly not an annoyance?
-
> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules.
> > > > >
> > > > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident.
> > >
> > > It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished?
> >
> > Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died.
> >
> > And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits.
>
> All of "damage" you were kind enough to mention are irrelevant in any comparison. This is creating artificial problem out of nothing just to make others feel bad for being lighthearted and actually having fun within virtual environment.
Having fun at the expense of others is griefing. Please quote me where in the rules that states that minor griefing is allowed. All rule breakers should be punished according to the severity of their rule break.
The ones responsible should be told to knock it off with no penalty to their account (the effect of their griefing is minor). Then if they do not follow the instructions of the mods they should be punished for disregarding mod instructions appropriately.
-
> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
> > > > >
> > > > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete.
> > > >
> > > > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules.
> > >
> > > They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place.
> >
> > It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident.
>
> It wasn't safe. This wasn't a city. Nowhere in this map you have any privilage to say you are safe. There are roaming undead. Nothing was taken from players standing there. The only argument here is "I'm offended". Well, I'm offended by your armor skin choices. Should you be punished?
Like I said, relatively safe. There'd likely be enough people that were around that aren't AFK that would jump in before my character died.
And waypoint fees are taken from the players that end up dying to the spawn. And it's one less death (or more) before a player has to spend time or use a repair canister to repair their armor in order to keep armor benefits.
-
> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
> > > >
> > > > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
> > > >
> > > > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
> > >
> > > Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete.
> >
> > Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling.
> >
> > That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules.
>
> They were afk-waiting for tequatl spawn. To ruin something you need to prove there was something to ruin in the first place.
It would reduce my fun if I was AFK there where it would be relatively safe to park a character and then found that I had to run back right on top of the spawn time. Not majorly, but it would. It wouldn't be something that I would report if it only happened to me rarely. It's not that big of a deal and I would need to know that it was grieving and not an accident. And that's impossible to determine after just one incident.
-
> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> > > >
> > > > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
> > >
> > > They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
> >
> > But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
> >
> > The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
>
> Except their "trolling" caused no harm. Didn't break the actual tequatl or made it impossible to complete.
Grieving/trolling is the ruining/reducing of someone's fun for the sake of ruining/reducing someone's fun. Finding yourself dead and having to redrawn at the cost of a waypoint fee is an annoyance and a fun reducer. It doesn't have to cause major in game problems to qualify as grieving or trolling.
That being said, it is minor grieving/trolling. But grieving is grieving and it's all against the rules.
-
Because birthdays are per character and each year has it's own unique gifts.
The better gifts will be at the higher years as incentive to keep characters. Keeping characters means players are more likely to need to buy a new character slot to create a new character at some point.
-
> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > They have every right to use guild event boss spawn and not completing it. They did it before the lock-out was present. Nothing it going to happen to them. This is no different than you "accidentaly" spawning a bounty and not killing it.
> >
> > Thumbs down. Just because you CAN do something does not mean you have the right to do it. You CAN violate clauses of the TOS that have no physical way of stopping you but you probably will not get very far with arguing you had the right to do it.
>
> They upgraded their guild hall, they paid their currency to build guild event mission and they started it before 30 minute timeout happened. Your freedom within the game is no different than their freedom. Their guild, their currency, their event. It didn't break or failed regular tequatl spawn. The only consequence is that OP feels offended for some reason.
But if they do it simply to troll the players waiting, then that's griefing. However, if there are no easily accessible chat records, proving intent is hard.
The only thing you can do is report when you see it and if it gets to be too often, then the reports will help show intent. You don't spawn it 30 minutes prior and have an emergency that keeps an entire guild from participating often.
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> @"Dravenultimate.6983" said:
> (NO MEMBERS EVER CAME WITH ME) and I told them before and also never got kicked until that day so why wait almost two months if I was such a threat to the guild in the first place? Plus not a single solo came with me when I left so I never poach anyone I didn't want them kind of people in my guild to start with period but good luck to all the others they left in the guild who will in fact poach them for being so stupid allowing the ones who don't show the guild using another chapter to have others as back up guild where anyone isn't happy to invite. So smart on his/her part plus on top of everything I never told them I was unhappy with the guild the truth is no one cared and only seen it's members as a number not a person this is why it lost so many people no one cared long as they had the ten people they needed to lvl the guild. Not one of your points you made are even valid, top of every single part of this the only thing I seen was a group of ignorant people who may of had the right idea in mind of what was going on but focused their attention on the wrong person who wasn't the center of the problem.
It was likely the fact that if you in guild chat tried to recruit members for your guild they perceived at as an attempted poaching of members. The success or failure of that is not part of the reason to kick.
If I was running a guild and a guild member tried to poach members to their guild, I'd kick them. Wouldn't matter if they were successful in their attempt or not.
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@"Trevor Boyer.6524"
Yes there are fewer anything goes LFG's going up for currently existing fractals.
You've identified the wrong cause.
When Fractals were first released 100% of the game's population that wanted the rewards that came from Fractals did not have it. This includes those who love to play the meta and those who prefer to play whatever build floats their boat that hour. So you had a mixture of groups: meta and anything goes. As time goes on, more and more people get the rewards from Fractals that they want. And some people will stop playing Fractals once they've gotten the rewards they want from it. Fractals weren't fun for them (or whatever the reason is they stopped). Some of the PUG people will form static groups. Once the external rewards are gone, it turns to the intrinsic rewards to keep people playing a game mode. The "Is it fun" factor becomes the number 1 factor here.
So people play the fractals. And it's the same fractals every time. After awhile, the new wears off and it's no longer fun to just run through the content. We're at this step. Most casuals have gotten all the rewards they want from Fractals and it's just not fun anymore to just run through Fractals, especially if you spend a lot of time wiping due to bad group composition (which can happen in anything goes groups). So some casuals will drop out. Others will begin to invest in learning the meta. Because that adds a challenge of learning a new build. Some of those casuals who learn the meta won't mind doing so in anything goes groups. Others will gravitate towards the meta preferred groups.
So yes, more groups are advertising for meta groups and for experienced players. Because most fractal players have played all of the fractals over 100 times and they're just running it to get the drops and gold for it and the run itself isn't that fun anymore. So they want to get in, get out, and on to whatever aspect of the game they find fun as quickly as possible. Not spend 30+ minutes in a teaching run or 30+ minutes in a run with a ton of wipes. Because Fractals when you get in and get out are some of the highest gold/hour in the game. But it's not that way if you spend 30+ minutes in a single fractal.
Until ANet adds in a decent amount of new Fractal rewards, this is likely going to be the case.
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> @"Conncept.7638" said:
> > @"Seera.5916" said:
> > > @"Conncept.7638" said:
> > > > @"sevenDEADLY.5281" said:
> > > > TP prices are set by supply and demand of players, not by Arena Net. Cost of materials for the collection are also set by supply and demand of players, not Arena Net. So what you're asking for is not going to happen.
> > >
> > > Haha, good one, now please explain to me how the people who literally utterly and solely controlhow many of X items appear in the world per Y amount of players, do not completely control supply of said items.
> > >
> > > GW2 does not have a player driven economy by any stretch of the imagination, that was a load of nonsense made up by the games (thankfully) ex-economist.
> > >
> > > That being said, the devs already stated long ago that TP prices are supposed to be lower because it's a consistent method for obtaining the item, and you don't have to pay for it in one lump sum but instead over the course of the legendary journey; it's always more expensive to pay for something over time than all at once.
> >
> > It is a player driven economy based on supply and demand that's set by ANet. ANet has an idea of what price range they want specific items to be (ie: the more rare they want the item, the higher the cost for example) and they adjust supply and/or demand accordingly when those prices get out of those ranges.
> >
> > Like their decision to not let certain PoF materials be automatically deposited in order to get more players to sell on the TP when clearing their bags to keep the common PoF material costs down on the TP instead of the high costs that they saw the common HoT materials go to when HoT launched.
> >
> > ANet doesn't directly control the prices. They can only influence them by adjusting supply (increasing/decreasing the drop/salvage rates) and/or demand (changing/adding recipes). But ANet has no idea the exact price things will balance out to. They just hope it lands within their range of acceptable.
>
> First paragraph, ANet sets prices.
> Third paragraph, ANet doesn't directly control prices.
>
> Which is it?
>
> The reality, ANet does set prices, which we have an effect on, but not which we can control, and that is by definition not a consumer driven economy. In a consumer driven economy a consumer has the ability to directly create a previously non-existent source of goods or services; at a higher or lower quality, price, and availability. That isn't possible in GW2, we can't make new areas and mobs for items to drop in, even if more players farm for an item more players will inherently also demand it as it becomes more available, only slightly altering the the ratio within the parameters ANet set. Therefore there is only one manufacturer of all goods, and no competition, and it's not possible to have a consumer driven economy under those circumstances.
>
> Now is that really an issue? No, I would not want a real consumer driven economy in any videogame I play. For one, most of us are here to escape that crap, and two, every game that has tried has utterly failed to do so, and ends up a laughably predatory caricature of capitalism, looking at you Eve Online.
First paragraph and third paragraph say the same thing in different ways. That ANet sets the prices indirectly through their ability to control supply and demand. We players are the ones who decide what price points coincide to the current levels of supply and demand. It's a player driven economy because we're the ones that ultimately determine what the price is.
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> @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:
> > @"Faaris.8013" said:
> > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said:
> > > The new buffs will cause a horrible rift. If Anet comes out with more fractal tiers, and levels. You will see "fractal god required"
> >
> > People will soon ask for the Savant title, it's the first in the series. You need to have played a lot of fractals to get that, Savant is enough to prove your experience. Nobody will ever ask for the god title because it's stupid to do that. Someone who has done 10k T4 fractals is not better than someone who has done 2k. It's quite easy to max out your skill at them after 300 times.
>
> But to some that 8k makes a difference, why is beyond me. It doesn't not matter the title, they want the buffs to make the fractal go microseconds faster
Some people like to see how fast they can possibly do something. See all of the speed runs done for dungeons. Heck, look at all the speed run groups who were present when dungeons were still the main thing. And they posted their fastest runs in hopes to be the fastest of the groups and they would continuously try to shave seconds off of their run.
Those speed run groups weren't pugging obviously, but there are people who try to copy them as they want to go as fast as possible who just don't realize that speed run groups are static groups who know each other's strengths and weaknesses when it comes to a particular dungeon.
With PUG'ing the mistakes made in PUG's would overtake a small buff if the buff would only make the fractal go seconds faster. But if they want to require that buff, then that's on them and they'll be that much slower to fill their group if most people don't have the buff they're looking for or don't want to join a group of someone who requires it.
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> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> What if I were to tell you, that T4 daily completion didn't have to be a game of "The Mad King Says"?
I would agree and nowhere did I say or mean to imply that it had to be that way.
You did not answer my question. Please answer it. I will say it again in different words below.
Why should players who have a preference of efficiency be forced to play with players who do not care if it takes them 30 minutes to do something it would take an efficient player 5 minutes to do?
Especially when said self-segregation is actually better for both the player making the exclusive LFG and the player who doesn't fit the requirements of the group...
Sometimes two groups of people are just incompatible in certain situations and it's best they segregate themselves.
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> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> Well that's the thing, I don't exclude anyone from any of my groups in T4s. Rather than kicking bad players, I will stop and take the time to explain mechanics to them and guess what? 9/10x these players aren't bad at all, they are just inexperienced. All they needed was 1 person to stop and take the time to point something out to them.
>
> I haven't had a fail fractal group outside of CMs in... well honestly... I can't remember a single instance of failing a T4 daily run within the past year. Maybe I've just been doing it too long and that's why it feels easy to me but I can say that T4 fractal content is in no way as unforgiving as raid content. Players just need to relax on the T4 elitism.
>
> I get it, they want to be efficient, but the elitism really isn't necessary for a successful run in the same way that raids demand an elite 10 man team.
And some people are willing to give up time waiting for a meta group in order to have a quick and efficient fractal run. They know full well that it can be completed by non-meta compositions. Just that it's not efficient and in PUG's higher chances of people not knowing the mechanics and therefore a higher chance of failure.
Why should those who prefer to have quick, efficient fractal runs not be allowed to use the LFG if they have to PUG that day? Why should only the casual group be allowed to use the LFG?
If I wanted to have an LFG and demand that players in my party dye their armor pink, then I have the right to do so and the right to kick anyone who doesn't comply. Will my group fill up fast? Who knows.
People should have the right to look for groups of players who have the same mindset. Especially when there are other people who have opposite mindsets and they would ruin the fun of each other if they were put into the same group.
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Maybe he had a temp ban or got a warning during those "some days". Not all offenses result in a permanent ban after the first offense.
Unless you reported him in the past it could also be a case of people think someone else will report him because it's an obvious case. The bystander affect. "Someone else surely reported it and I don't want to report the same thing."
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> @"DarcShriek.5829" said:
> > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:
> > > @"DarcShriek.5829" said:
> > >
> > > In the US. The courts have stated that there is no risk in opening items like black lion chests. Therefore it’s not gambling in the US.
> >
> > Ah, but we are not at this moment in time debating the legal definition. That point was ceded long ago. Rather, we are debating what people think -- not lawyers or judges, other people. If it helps to think of it this way, BLC's are not gambling, but they are a gamble.
>
> No they aren’t a gamble. There is no risk. You would be more accurate saying a car is an object
There is a risk that you don't get what you want out of it. It's not a gamble of do you get something or nothing. Which is why I don't advise people to buy keys unless they're just going to for the thrill of opening the chest. If you want something specific, you're better off waiting for free keys or saving up the money and buying it directly off the TP.
For me, it's a gamble of do I get what I want or do get another BLTC Salvage Kit set? I've got so many of the BLTC Salvage kits that I'd rather get other items from the BLTC chests.
Or a person with a permanent hair stylist risk getting another hair style kit when they open instead of something else that they can use or sell.
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> @"HnRkLnXqZ.1870" said:
> I've got a funny question about this topic, which keeps me busy for a while now. I doubt I will get an official answer to this and I apologize for the cryptic writing:
>
> If a person gets reported (= accused) by another person (= reporter). The accused is by definition innocent until proven otherwise. To do that, the staff has to check if the accusation is a gainst the rules. They further have to check the report and the evidence, if attached. In addition, they have to check the accused persons account, and the conditions of the report, for example chat-logs. Until this procedure is completely finished, the accused remains 100 % innocent and remains untouched.
>
> The reporter on the other hand gets taged, the instant he does a report. According to the things above, due to integrity of the accused, he has to be seen as a liar (false accusation) until proven otherwise. No matter what the accusation is, the staff will check his account and the conditions arround the report as well. If he continues reporting more people for the same or different issues, the investigation on his account will be extended. If any problems are noticed, actions against the reporter will be taken instantly. There is no reporter for him, only facts, so he is never an accused and the issue is free of further investigations.
>
> In conclusion reporting people leads to a higher risk for punishment than getting reported.
>
> Is that correct?
>
> -
> I do not expect to get an official answer from a staff member. But this question bugs me for years and I would really like to get an answer for it. It suits to the topic/thread anyway. Feel free to enlighten me.
I would assume that unless you're reporting the same player way more than necessary, they would rear you as reporting players in good faith until you get too many that come back as not having broken any rules.
-
Maybe.
Too many factors to say yes or no at this time.
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> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXA9qy5Zfc0&feature=youtu.be
>
> For purpose of forum discussion, I recorded a completely random day of PUGing T4s, while using a non raid meta scourge:
> - 0:00 - Non meta Scourge doesn't give a flux about what LFG group to join and joins the first most generalized LFG possible, with no requirements.
> - 2:35 - Party running raid metas begin to wipe.
> - 3:55 - One player logs off to log onto a druid because "we needed a druid". Leaving party 4 man DPS for 3:20s.
> - 7:10 - Druid finally comes back and party regroups. Notice how often the party is still being downed, especially the raid chrono.
> - 14:07 The non raid meta scourge solos Ascalonian mob "which is often the source of team wipes at Dulfy" while meta raid subgroup almost wipes vs. just Dulfy and 1 pot of burning oil.
> - 24:15 - Non meta scourge openly invites bad players to join for T4 Chaos so that it can carry them.
> - 35:50 - Non meta scourge carries team wipe through boss.
>
> 39:00 minute completion even on a bad day of PUGing LFG.
>
> @"Yasi.9065"
> 1. You're telling me that you bring in an elite raid subgroup for average 30 minute clear? Notice the hard solo carry in 39:00 minutes in the above video, on a non raid meta build, even after having to join a 2nd group to complete the final T4. You sure that raid meta is really speeding things up?
> 2. You imply again, that it would take me 90 minutes with a poor random group to complete 3x T4 dailies but the above video shows otherwise. For the amount of time & effort you seem to be telling me that you put into organizing elite raid subgroups, it doesn't seem to me like it is making much of a difference for you.
> 3. "You can survive with raid dps with no druid in fractals". I here a lot of people say this but it isn't true. Day to day, this fact becomes more and more prevalent. Maybe VERY GOOD players are able to do it for awhile but there are situations/places/mechanics in fractals where you simply cannot survive and complete the mechanic on a raid DPS. The underground facility is a great example of a bad place for a full group of raid dps with no druid to be forced to stand on panels and face tank damage.
> 4. "Custom builds and carrying fractals" There is much you are misunderstanding about these two aspects. Refer to the posted video.
> 5. No one joins a group wanting to have to solo content but you should expect it to happen if you are PUGing fractals with people that you do not know because it happens often, despite how long you wait in attempts to find a perfect meta group "visually" but ends up being players who are just bad.
>
> But thank you for your post
> I hope you enjoyed the video
>
>
So please, tell me, what did people do before HoT was launched?
Druids aren't required.
-
A good farming class is a class that you won't mind playing for hours and hours and hours on end. If you can't stomach to play the most efficient class for hours and hours and hours then it's not the class for you. Because you won't farm for long enough to really matter.
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> @"CptAurellian.9537" said:
> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:
> > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said:
> > > Fascinating thread. It's always amazing how such a question can blow up like an atomic mushroom.
> > >
> > > I've been there since BWE1 and ever since the experimenting period after release, little has changed. We had the different dungeon metas (4 warrs + mes, their replacement by eles and so on), we had past fractal metas, now we have chrono+drood+warr+2X. All the time, we've also had enough groups who don't care for their composition and they worked (and work), too.
> > Notice how originally, if you went in to do the content with some non-meta build, or performed worse, the content took just slower. Now, apparently, people want build groups so finetuned that if one person makes a mistake, everyone wipes because supposedly the individual players in that group setup can only function well in a specific group and become useless when one of the elements of that group is faulty.
> > (i have my own opinion on that, but won't going to repeat it one more time here)
>
> Where exactly does that "one fail, all wipe" thing happen? Fractal CMs for sure, since they're supposed to be hard. Anything else? Apart from Subject 6 in Thaumanova (which has always been that way), I can't think of anything. So provide concrete examples, please. Also, how exactly is the extreme finetuning you mention necessary? A healer certainly makes a big difference (we have several of them), chrono and warrior less so. All other classes/builds are highly interchangeable. If that's extreme finetuning ...
>
>
Because too many people to C&P a build they see and follow a list of steps to defeat a boss instead of actually learning the fight and learning why the build was designed that way. So that when a mistake happens that throws a rotation off or causes a fight to last longer than if things went perfect, people don't know what to do and in their panic they make more mistakes and fail.
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> @"Danikat.8537" said:
> > @"rwolf.9571" said:
> > Also it takes 80ish wvw pots to complete a track. Or under a month of wvw dailies (+20 days).
> > So considering most ppl take months to make a legendary, it only looks like a minor bump in the road.
>
> It's certainly better than WvW map completion, which used to be required for legendaries. Although I think the worst thing there was that people didn't know it was needed, and map completion was often one of the last things they finished. So people would have all the other parts ready, finish their last map expecting the Gift of Exploration and find they were only on 80% or something and the last bit couldn't be rushed because you couldn't get into the enemy-held keeps and things to do it.
98% without WvW maps. It got the completionists riled up as well even if they weren't going for a legendary.
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> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:
> 
> Would it make you mad? Would you post a response?
>
And they still have different connotations.
There's the social elite who look down on the classes below them. See great examples in Victorian age setting books as we no longer have social classes in typical Western societies.
Then there's the elite at X skill who are just highly skilled. Who on average don't look down on anyone.
So again, which elite are you referring to?
Why Doesn't Anet Flush the TP of Old Posts?
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion
Posted
> @"Zoe.8310" said:
> > @"Embered.5089" said:
> > I think only the prices that are under minimum value should be “flushed”, but not any that are at least minimum price. The latter could theoretically still undergo a sale/buy transaction someday.
>
> Yeah, I guess these are the ones that really make the most sense, stuff that is somehow an "invalid" price to begin with.
>
> What if the flush was due to the Transaction being 6 months old AND the user has also not logged in for 6 months? That might be a safer way to isolate zombie transactions?
Then that's items stuck in limbo if the player never ever logs in again. At least remaining on the TP means that the item may be bought at some day in the future. And if the player ever does return one day, it would be nice to see a nice chunk of gold sitting for them in the TP including items that sold 6+ months since his/her previous log in.