Seera.5916

> @"EU Guy.1803" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > @"EU Guy.1803" said:

> > > > @"Seera.5916" said:

> > > > > @"EU Guy.1803" said:

> > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > > > That's pretty frustrating. However, I'm not so sure you understand how customer service works in large companies. Generally,. the first person you'll get will be a lower level customer support rep, who has to forward things up the chain in order to get a response from someone "higher". Now, those people do have to go through all the hoops, because they're expected to weed out whatever they can so that they don't move up the chain. That's standard procedure.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When that person gets exhausted your ticket is passed to the next level up. There are only so many support people that really "know" the game on an intimate level on the top of the food chain and if it's the kind of problem that isn't common, then it's going to have to get to those people. That you can't play a game for four days doesn't play into it, so much as they have X number of people and Y number of tickets that end up on that top level. The busier those people are, the more time it will take for you to get an answer.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It doesn't sound like Anet won't help you. It sounds like they're in the process of trying to help you and you expect the first guy you talk to to get it. That's just now how it usually goes with tech support. Sucks but there it is.

> > > > >

> > > > > Exactly that's why I did everything as instructed even though I knew it wouldn't resolve the issue but now I have had no response back in the past 24 hours. Most "big" companies have a phone line and that's where they pass you up the latter as they can't resolve the issue not send you some automated message every 24 hours.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe you're the first person that's experienced this issue so they're trying to figure out what caused it and how to fix it.

> > > >

> > > > ANet's not big enough for phone support. Big enough for tiered tech support, though.

> > >

> > > I understand that it can be a difficult problem to fix but I try to inform them with as much information as possible. Also I looked over the file I sent from that NCsoft program and it says there's no issues on my side so why would they send me I message after which literally told me to disable programs on windows startup lol.

> >

> > You stated you submitted another ticket. That ticket was given the usual response for that kind of issue. Had you merely updated the original ticket, you may have received a different response. Close the duplicate, and update the original; you can ask to have your ticket escalated. Do be aware, the CS Team allows themselves 72 hours to respond to tickets, and may take even more time for difficult or unusual cases.

> >

> > You could have also updated your original thread in the Support sub-forum, as well, where those Team Member that can assist you would be more likely to see your post.

> >

> > Good luck.

>

> I responded to the original and submitted another ticket

That "another" ticket slowed down the response to your problem. Close the second ticket if ANet hasn't done it already.

> @"EU Guy.1803" said:

> > @"Seera.5916" said:

> > > @"EU Guy.1803" said:

> > > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > That's pretty frustrating. However, I'm not so sure you understand how customer service works in large companies. Generally,. the first person you'll get will be a lower level customer support rep, who has to forward things up the chain in order to get a response from someone "higher". Now, those people do have to go through all the hoops, because they're expected to weed out whatever they can so that they don't move up the chain. That's standard procedure.

> > > >

> > > > When that person gets exhausted your ticket is passed to the next level up. There are only so many support people that really "know" the game on an intimate level on the top of the food chain and if it's the kind of problem that isn't common, then it's going to have to get to those people. That you can't play a game for four days doesn't play into it, so much as they have X number of people and Y number of tickets that end up on that top level. The busier those people are, the more time it will take for you to get an answer.

> > > >

> > > > It doesn't sound like Anet won't help you. It sounds like they're in the process of trying to help you and you expect the first guy you talk to to get it. That's just now how it usually goes with tech support. Sucks but there it is.

> > >

> > > Exactly that's why I did everything as instructed even though I knew it wouldn't resolve the issue but now I have had no response back in the past 24 hours. Most "big" companies have a phone line and that's where they pass you up the latter as they can't resolve the issue not send you some automated message every 24 hours.

> >

> > Maybe you're the first person that's experienced this issue so they're trying to figure out what caused it and how to fix it.

> >

> > ANet's not big enough for phone support. Big enough for tiered tech support, though.

>

> I understand that it can be a difficult problem to fix but I try to inform them with as much information as possible. Also I looked over the file I sent from that NCsoft program and it says there's no issues on my side so why would they send me I message after which literally told me to disable programs on windows startup lol.

Because that's one of the steps they have you take. It's one of the basics of any gaming company when the problem may be software related. I got asked the same thing when I was having FPS issues with the game and I hadn't added anything to my computer, yet it was fine until one day it wasn't.

> @"EU Guy.1803" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > That's pretty frustrating. However, I'm not so sure you understand how customer service works in large companies. Generally,. the first person you'll get will be a lower level customer support rep, who has to forward things up the chain in order to get a response from someone "higher". Now, those people do have to go through all the hoops, because they're expected to weed out whatever they can so that they don't move up the chain. That's standard procedure.

> >

> > When that person gets exhausted your ticket is passed to the next level up. There are only so many support people that really "know" the game on an intimate level on the top of the food chain and if it's the kind of problem that isn't common, then it's going to have to get to those people. That you can't play a game for four days doesn't play into it, so much as they have X number of people and Y number of tickets that end up on that top level. The busier those people are, the more time it will take for you to get an answer.

> >

> > It doesn't sound like Anet won't help you. It sounds like they're in the process of trying to help you and you expect the first guy you talk to to get it. That's just now how it usually goes with tech support. Sucks but there it is.

>

> Exactly that's why I did everything as instructed even though I knew it wouldn't resolve the issue but now I have had no response back in the past 24 hours. Most "big" companies have a phone line and that's where they pass you up the latter as they can't resolve the issue not send you some automated message every 24 hours.

Maybe you're the first person that's experienced this issue so they're trying to figure out what caused it and how to fix it.

ANet's not big enough for phone support. Big enough for tiered tech support, though.

I actually prefer how it is now. So if they do add this, it needs to be an option.

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Seera.5916" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > The reason does not count imho.

> > > If we do agree on something like selling an item, whatever the reason the outcome is the same.

> > >

> > > However I could have just omitted the part about the stealth nerf because i am still trying, this is true.

> >

> > If the reason is because something was nerfed, then even those who raise their MF to the max are better off selling.

> >

> > If the reason is because something is tedious, then it's a personal choice.

> >

> > So yes, the reason matters.

>

> Though i do disagree, since the outcome for you and me is the same, i feel lost about me myself.

>

> Am I trying to make people sell items because they are no more worth it

> Or Am I buying them?

> Or else, do I not consider the gold per hour worth enough to play with them?

>

> Reading your reasons in the example you made i can't figure out what my purpose should be.

Huh? Can you please rephrase what it is you're trying to say? My brain is not able to figure out what your point is.

You said you should sell because they nerfed the salvage rate. Your reason effects even those who bother to get their MF up to the absolute max. They should sell too.

Illconceived says the average player should sell because most players find getting to the MF needed to make the difference in selling vs salvaging worth the effort to be too tedious. The player who bothers to get their MF up to max and keep it there is not the average player and therefore is fine to salvage with max MF.

At least that's the answer to what I think you're trying to say.

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> The reason does not count imho.

> If we do agree on something like selling an item, whatever the reason the outcome is the same.

>

> However I could have just omitted the part about the stealth nerf because i am still trying, this is true.

If the reason is because something was nerfed, then even those who raise their MF to the max are better off selling.

If the reason is because something is tedious, then it's a personal choice.

So yes, the reason matters.

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> It's definitely a Nice bait.

> Yours.

>

> My point is the same as you all, which is that it is better to sell them.

>

> And I don't know how this could be different in your Head though.

> Or maybe everybody here which says that is better to sell them is lying.

>

>

But the reason is different. And that reason is important. Better to sell due to convenience for the average player is different than it's better to sell due to things being nerfed, which means that no matter what the MF is, it's better to sell.

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Seera.5916" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104"

> >

> > Too many people have said that they have experienced a change in the drop rate only for it to turn out they hit a bad/good RNG streak for most players to accept anecdotal evidence from one person. If others were coming in here and saying that they felt the drop rate had change but didn't record drops, then it might be different. But right now, it's just you. And too many people have proverbially cried wolf for people to believe "drop rate changed".

>

> That's your point.

> From what i happened to read here and maybe on reddit, there are plenty of players which don't have identified enough stacks in order to gather data or simply know what i am talking about.

>

> That said, i am still doing my research, which is not free but still useful.

> And ofc i wouldn't share my results if not 100% sure, or after a real nerf ( which mean that i am sure about it ).

> And even so, i will probably not share any more specific information ( though i do appreciate if somebody share their, i tend not to share mine because the more players know, the worst for me. And this is not about Unidenfied items, but everything which allows you to make a profit. You would be stupid to share informations which could create competitors, don't you agree? ).

>

> The two of you probably didn't read my first message that good if you missed the part "probably", which is inherent to what i am researching now.

I did read your post. I saw the probably. If it's probably, you've got data that shows that. But I'm more inclined to believe Illconceived and that there hasn't been a nerf because he's actually shown me his data and explained how he came to the conclusions he did.

That's all I'm saying.

So until you're ready to cough up proof, I'm just going to think that you're just trying to keep people away from your gold mine by making people think that it's been nerfed. But I'm not going to tell you how I came up with that. That's my data and I'm not sharing.

@"Shirlias.8104"

Too many people have said that they have experienced a change in the drop rate only for it to turn out they hit a bad/good RNG streak for most players to accept anecdotal evidence from one person. If others were coming in here and saying that they felt the drop rate had change but didn't record drops, then it might be different. But right now, it's just you. And too many people have proverbially cried wolf for people to believe "drop rate changed".

I've crafted Meteorlogicus. It took me about 4.5 years to make because I'm a casual who took lengthy breaks more than once.

The biggest pitfall for me was not entirely my fault. By the time I finalized which legendary I wanted, there were rumors of a precursor scavenger hunt and by the time I really was focused on getting my legendary, HoT had been announced and I knew we were getting precursor crafting. I would much rather smaller chunks to work toward than one big one or relying on RNG. Even if it meant I spent more time and money over all. Which meant that the precursor was the last thing I needed. And there were glitchy events tied to T3 of the collection for Storm. Getting stuck at the glitchy events (simple easy events, too) was disheartening especially since there didn't seem to be any progress towards fixing them. And I had nothing else to work toward for the precursor or legendary.

Decide early on if you want to craft or buy your precursor. Don't wait until you've got everything else, especially if you're leaning towards crafting the precursor. You don't want to be like me who had to twiddle her thumbs and pray that the map generated a new copy and it didn't glitch out the event right when I was there (which meant patch day or when that map was the daily events map).

Decide how you want to get your Mystic Clovers before you get all of the T6 mats you need. If you decide to go the Mystic Forge way, you'll get a number of T6 mats while trying to get Mystic Clovers.

But the biggest piece of advice I have is to not rush it. You don't want to get the legendary and then be burnt out on the game.

@Tomoko.4071

If you're on an NA server send me a message here on the forums if you need help with one of the personal story chapters and we can arrange a time to do them.

I'm sorry you've managed to find the minority of players who are trolls and don't like to help. Most of us don't mind helping others.

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > And yet, where are all of the people that want legendary armor to support it?

> > The OP wouldn't have gotten over 60 upvotes if no one would have cared about "getting more ways to obtain legendary gear" so what are you talking about?

>

> and since we can't downvote the upvotes are useless.

>

I wouldn't say they are useless. Just not enough to prove anything unless the number gets really high and I wouldn't say that 60 up votes on an official forum is high enough to say that the majority of players agree. It's also not enough to prove that a majority don't agree either since there is no down vote.

It is showing that some people do want more paths to legendary gear in general. And not everyone who agrees would up vote either. I don't mind other paths being added should a method that's comparable be devised for those other paths. I just don't want the skins to not be exclusive. And I haven't up voted even though I agree with the wording of the original post.

I took casual in the context of this discussion as the player who's not likely to raid for reasons other than solely too little time. Because there are just too many valid definitions of casual.

Most casuals just care about skins and not necessarily the functionality. Casuals don't tend to need to have the best build for everything and will likely just 1-2 builds and that's easy enough to deal with without the stat swap ability of legendary items. Most of the feedback I've seen related to envoy armor is that it's ugly. If most people who didn't want to raid really wanted the armor, we would have seen a lot more threads pop up about how the armor is locked behind raids and not just the small handful that exist. Or a lot more unique posters in the ones that exist.

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Seera.5916" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > I still stand by what I said.. The direction that Anet is going in will alienate the Casual player bases, I wager a good chunk already accept that they are just "goofing off here" and don't see any long term staying power with this game for them. So Anet may as well try their best to keep you and yours.

> >

> > You're assuming the casuals care about getting legendary armor.

> >

> > Their direction isn't alienating me and I'm a casual. I know not everything that is put into this game will be for casual players. There are hard core players that play the game, too and they deserve some content aimed at them.

> >

> > Oh and casuals can think of making a legendary a lot sooner than 2 years. I knew I was going for a legendary from day 1. It took me a few months to decide on which one. And due to several breaks because I jump from game to game (my main go to games are Sims games - so I'm fully into Fashion Wars), I finished my first legendary weapon - Meteorlogicus earlier this year and I'm already got my eye on making another one - Incinerator. Given my current progress, it will be a few years before I finish that one. And that's just fine. It's my long term goal.

> >

> > I'm also still working on my first set of Ascended armor...

>

> The fact that you were into getting a legendary weapon from the start, and claim to be a casual, is self evident that casuals will and do look into getting Legendary Items, Just because you are still looking at the weapons, does not mean others are not more fixated with the armor.

>

> So yes.. you are living proof that Casuals can, do, and will be looking into Legendary Items to progress their game and give themselves long term goals.

>

> I also stand by what I said about putting the goal behind the Raid will discourage them, and without those long term goals, they will simply mull about for a while till finally moving on.

>

> But.. you know. What I think really does not matter. If I am right, what does it matter, if I am wrong.. again, what does it matter. But think of this way, if Anet caters to the hard core players as I suggested, you are fine with it, so.. wherein is the problem for you?

There you go assuming that casuals' have a long term goal of legendary envoy armor again.

Considering most posts I've seen are saying the armor is ugly for most weights and most people agreeing, I'd assume that most players going for legendary armor are probably not going for envoy armor if they aren't interested in raiding given that at least WvW is a little more easier to progress than raids, if not PvP as well (I've never played PvP nor desire to do so, so can't say how easy or hard it is to progress towards the armor there).

Here's my assumption: most casuals don't care enough about what rewards are locked behind raids for it to discourage them. They've got enough long term goals currently available and more will be added. Therefore, ANet's current decision to focus a little more on hard core players will not have any major impact on the casual player base. And I believe that what isn't broke shouldn't be fixed.

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> I still stand by what I said.. The direction that Anet is going in will alienate the Casual player bases, I wager a good chunk already accept that they are just "goofing off here" and don't see any long term staying power with this game for them. So Anet may as well try their best to keep you and yours.

You're assuming the casuals care about getting legendary armor.

Their direction isn't alienating me and I'm a casual. I know not everything that is put into this game will be for casual players. There are hard core players that play the game, too and they deserve some content aimed at them.

Oh and casuals can think of making a legendary a lot sooner than 2 years. I knew I was going for a legendary from day 1. It took me a few months to decide on which one. And due to several breaks because I jump from game to game (my main go to games are Sims games - so I'm fully into Fashion Wars), I finished my first legendary weapon - Meteorlogicus earlier this year and I'm already got my eye on making another one - Incinerator. Given my current progress, it will be a few years before I finish that one. And that's just fine. It's my long term goal.

I'm also still working on my first set of Ascended armor...

> @Loosmaster.8263 said:

> > @UnDeadFun.5824 said:

> > > @Loosmaster.8263 said:

> > > > @"Shining One.1635" said:

> > > > I miss the old Guild Wars 1 approach to gear. Best-in-slot gear was very easy to attain from multiple sources. Of course, you still had the prestige items that required some effort. The only differences were the skins.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think there should be more paths to legendary functionality, but the various modes should have their own skins/effects.

> > >

> > > That's the problem. Functionality is not what this is about. They want the skins that are locked behind certain content.

> >

> > Please don't start lumping everyone all together, not all of us want that. I would like to see other ways to obtain the functionality. Leave to prestige skins where they are.

> >

> > *edit: I do not want anything to be an easy hand out either.

>

> Apparently you haven't read the entire thread and they claim to speak for the majority.

> In your context an entire new set for OWPvE would give you that but this thread is about wanting another path to the Envoy armor in Raids.

To be fair, the OP never said skins. Just the legendary armor itself. Whether he means the skins as well or just the functionality and stats, is unknown. He hasn't explicitly stated what he would be happy with or said anything in my mind that implied either.

This thread is about wanting more paths to legendary armor. Most agree that more paths would be fine to legendary armor. The argument is more on the lines of functionality only or functionality & skin.

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > > @Rysdude.3824 said:

> > > > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > > > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > > > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > > > > > Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

> > > > >

> > > > > While I admire the logic, selling raids takes away from it unfortunately (IMO). So you can have Raid legendary armor by wallet and completely taking away the skill and dedication awe.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > It does take away the prestige. But until such time as ANet makes generation 1 legendary weapons untradeable, there should be a legendary armor that can bought.

> > > >

> > > > And if they add new legendary armors in addition to the current set, I hope they can put in some system that makes it prohibitively hard to buy raid runs for those new armors - if they even require raids.

> > >

> > > Meh by that logic, there is no reason to put the armor behind the raid to start with.

> >

> > Yes there is. Raids given their difficulty, deserve a fitting reward. An exclusive skin is quite fitting for raids. And highest difficulty content should give the highest rarity items as rewards. Hence the rarity level of Legendary.

> >

> > And you can get legendary armor without raiding, it just won't have the same skin.

> >

> > And no, I'm not saying that legendary armor shouldn't be added to other aspects of the game. Just that it's quite deserving to have a set that is designed to be earned by those who raid.

>

> Skins.. Titles... sure..

>

> This whole legendary thing is trash, and just leads people to buy raids, which is no different then buying them off the TP, which means, it's not good for the game or the game mode.

I've got no problem with them adding more ways to get legendary armor. The effort just has to match the rarity. And I'm talking relative to the gen 2 legendary weapons, the ones you can't buy.

I just don't want the skins to be the same between all modes.

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @Sarrs.4831 said:

> > Different skins? Fine. Good, even.

> > Same skins? No. Envoy armor is for HoT raids.

>

> But how would you make happy a player that liked the look of Envoy armor and wanted some for himself, but did not enjoy raiding? I'll speed up the process by eliminating the obvious wrong answers,

>

> NO, you could not make him happy by "having him raid anyway," since he does not enjoy raiding, and therefore would not enjoy that experience.

> NO, you could not make him happy by "he never gets the armor," because in that case, he would never get the armor.

>

> So how would you go about making that player happy, if not by having an alternate method of acquiring the Envoy skin?

>

> Speaking purely for myself, I couldn't care less about having Legendary armor, but I do want a few Envoy skins.

But how do you make the player who wants something easily visible to tell players that he's experienced raids and put equity into it ("sweat" equity or gold equity) and got through it happy?

You can't make everyone happy 100% of the time. Your option will not make everyone happy.

I think more are happy with the current situation than would be happy with your solution. Most people have a desire to show off their accomplishments.

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > @Rysdude.3824 said:

> > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > > > Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

> > > > >

> > > > > Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

> > > > >

> > > > > >So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

> > > > >

> > > > > >But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

> > > > >

> > > > > What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

> > > >

> > > > There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

> > > >

> > > > You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

> > > >

> > > > Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

> > > >

> > > > If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

> > > >

> > > > Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

> > > >

> > > > And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

> > >

> > > While I admire the logic, selling raids takes away from it unfortunately (IMO). So you can have Raid legendary armor by wallet and completely taking away the skill and dedication awe.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > It does take away the prestige. But until such time as ANet makes generation 1 legendary weapons untradeable, there should be a legendary armor that can bought.

> >

> > And if they add new legendary armors in addition to the current set, I hope they can put in some system that makes it prohibitively hard to buy raid runs for those new armors - if they even require raids.

>

> Meh by that logic, there is no reason to put the armor behind the raid to start with.

Yes there is. Raids given their difficulty, deserve a fitting reward. An exclusive skin is quite fitting for raids. And highest difficulty content should give the highest rarity items as rewards. Hence the rarity level of Legendary.

And you can get legendary armor without raiding, it just won't have the same skin.

And no, I'm not saying that legendary armor shouldn't be added to other aspects of the game. Just that it's quite deserving to have a set that is designed to be earned by those who raid.

> @Rysdude.3824 said:

> > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > Open world PvE as it stands right now is not set up to make legendary armor even possible to obtain. There's nothing about open world PvE that shows skill or dedication.

> > >

> > > Who cares? I've been playing GW2 since launch, if that's not "dedication" then I don't know what is.

> > >

> > > >So if they give open world it's own legendary armor, it should be like the same as ascended: no special effects or aura's. Plain Jane, you wouldn't know it was legendary just by looking at it unless you knew what the skin looked like. IE: you get just the functionality of legendary armor.

> > >

> > > Why? Why are people not allowed to have nice things unless they also enjoy raiding?

> > >

> > > >But each mode should have it's own unique skin and the WvW ones should be given their own skins and not just C&P from the ascended version.

> > >

> > > What is the point of that? What if the mode you enjoy playing does not offer the skin that you think looks best, and what if the skin you like best doesn't come from a mode you want to play? That seems like a set-up for plenty of lose/lose propositions. What we want are win/win propositions, where you can always get the skin you want by playing in a mode you enjoy.

> >

> > There should be rewards in games that showcase skill and dedication towards different aspects of the game. That are unique to that game mode. So that when you see them with it you know they are good at that game mode. Not have to ask them or wonder what part of the game they played to get that.

> >

> > You can't give every skin and every reward out to every aspect in the game that people like to do. Otherwise, every drop will be so low in chances of dropping that they might as well have the current drop rate of precursors for the gen 1 legendaries. You can't have anything be map specific because someone may not like to play in that map. But if things aren't map specific then people will go to the easiest maps to do it in, which are the starter maps. Which means new players will find it even harder to get experience because the experienced players are all there trying to get the drop they want. Because people have to farm for hours and hours and hours and hours even on the starter maps to get the skin they want, they end up selling everything they don't want or get duplicates of, taking down the GW2 economy with it because supply skyrocketed but demand remained the same.

> >

> > Because under your thought, where would it stop? Put it only on world bosses and people say "I don't like to do world bosses." So they put it in level 80 maps. People then say "I don't like to play those maps." So they put them in all maps on champions. Players go "I don't like fighting champions, it's either zerg fest and too easy or too hard because I can't solo and I'm never on when others are there."

> >

> > If you read what I said, there's nothing that shows dedication or skill in open world PvE. You can't use account creation date, because players can take breaks. You can't use age of characters because people can stand around and chat in LA all day and from what I've read, we both think those players who just stand around in LA and chat all day should not get handed legendary weapons or armor.

> >

> > Which is why any legendary set for open world PvE as it is today should be just the functionality and not the cool special skin. Legendary weapons do require you to venture out into the areas of the game that have measurable ways to show dedication and skill.

> >

> > And I'm one of those who believes the generation 1 legendary weapons should not have been sellable on the TP. Precursors, yes. Legendary weapons, no.

>

> While I admire the logic, selling raids takes away from it unfortunately (IMO). So you can have Raid legendary armor by wallet and completely taking away the skill and dedication awe.

>

>

It does take away the prestige. But until such time as ANet makes generation 1 legendary weapons untradeable, there should be a legendary armor that can bought.

And if they add new legendary armors in addition to the current set, I hope they can put in some system that makes it prohibitively hard to buy raid runs for those new armors - if they even require raids.

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > @Swagger.1459 said:

> > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > @Swagger.1459 said:

> > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > > > @Swagger.1459 said:

> > > > > > > Stop assuming owpve content = easy path (requirements) created by the devs. Get it now? Understand?

> > > > > > > Who cares about “core pillars”? The request was specific in my op... and for a reason... (and for larger reasons than what is stated because... deeper thinking about topics leads to good places and conversations).

> > > > > > > “Each one has their own path to legendary”... What does that have to do with my op?

> > > > > > > That last part is meaningless to this topic.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, this request is about paths to all legendary gear for all modes.

> > > > > > This is what you literally just said. We already have it, thus you're asking for more is clearly a grab at getting it from methods you find easier.

> > > > >

> > > > > We already have what? I'm failing to see where we have legendary weapon paths in raids, dungeons, fractals, wvw, spvp... Where is the aurora path in raids, dungeons, fractals, wvw, spvp...? Should I go on?

> > > > >

> > > > > Obviously you are not even bothering to understand this topic. Again with the "Method you find easier" stuff...

> > > > >

> > > > > And for the record I have a ton of legendary weapons, medium legendary armor and aurora... lets not make it seem like I'm desperate or unable to get gear in this game.

> > > >

> > > > Splitting hairs here because ?

> > > >

> > > > You can get one of each legendary armor from the 3 game modes Anet supports and recognizes. PvE, WvW, and PvP. To split them down to the most elemental forms of dungeon, openworld et all is literally shifting the goalpost.

> > >

> > > Nope, this is your inability to understand the request... and you are clearly not even paying attention because you just keep bringing up legendary armor...

> > >

> > > Conversations go much smoother when you are engaged in the topic, as opposed to just responding.

> > >

> >

> > I'm sorry but when you explicitly state you want legendaries from all modes and it can be proved to you that you can get them from all modes what more do you want ?

> >

> > You can get Armor from all 3 modes.

> > Weapons Require all 3 modes

> > Backpieces from all 3 modes

> > Trinkets which are just starting will likely follow the same pattern

> >

> > So what more do you want ? What else is there to even remotely discuss here outside of you wanting to get the items from a specific playstyle that clearly doesn't fit with the principals of design Anet has setup ?

>

> You are insisting on treating raids as a part of PvE. The people you are arguing with insist on considering the two separately, since they appeal to VASTLY different subsets of players. So long as you continue to ignore that they are holding that position, you will never be able to come to any sort of agreement with them on the core issues of this discussion.

Maybe if you focus on the fact that raids and open world cater primarily to 2 different types of PvE players rather than trying to make raids into something other than what it is, you'll stop arguing over semantics and actually discuss the issue.

Those who play games for the challenge (these are the raiders) and those who play games for their fun (these are the open world players).

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > If people support selling raids (and thus legendary armor) for gold, they may as well sell the Armor in the Gem shop, since I can buy gems with gold as well.

> > > >

> > > > There's already, unfortunately, a precedent for that. It's called generation 1 legendary weapons.

> > > >

> > > > When ANet removes the ability to buy and sell legendary weapons via the trading post is when I'll advocate for making the legendary armor require actual participation in the raid in order to get it.

> > >

> > > kow about we save time and remove the raid req, and everyone is happy.

> >

> > What about the people who want raids to have their own legendary armor? That won't make them happy.

> >

> > Let's not speak for everyone.

>

> Sure it will, it will save them all this drama.

Most people don't go to the forums. Most people are already saved from the drama. So the portion of raiders who want legendary armor to be earnable via raids will not be happy.

Let's not speak for everyone.

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > If people support selling raids (and thus legendary armor) for gold, they may as well sell the Armor in the Gem shop, since I can buy gems with gold as well.

> >

> > There's already, unfortunately, a precedent for that. It's called generation 1 legendary weapons.

> >

> > When ANet removes the ability to buy and sell legendary weapons via the trading post is when I'll advocate for making the legendary armor require actual participation in the raid in order to get it.

>

> kow about we save time and remove the raid req, and everyone is happy.

What about the people who want raids to have their own legendary armor? That won't make them happy.

Let's not speak for everyone.

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> If people support selling raids (and thus legendary armor) for gold, they may as well sell the Armor in the Gem shop, since I can buy gems with gold as well.

There's already, unfortunately, a precedent for that. It's called generation 1 legendary weapons.

When ANet removes the ability to buy and sell legendary weapons via the trading post is when I'll advocate for making the legendary armor require actual participation in the raid in order to get it.

> @Swagger.1459 said:

> > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > @Swagger.1459 said:

> > > > @Seera.5916 said:

> > > > > @Swagger.1459 said:

> > > > > > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > > > > > > @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> > > > > > > > @Ayrilana.1396 said:

> > > > > > > > If it’s open world then it better be a time-gated grindfest so that people have to put in a tremendous amount of effort towards it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, because heaven forbid that people should be able to have FUN in games, right?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because heaven forbid a luxury and prestige item retain those via hard work and dedication, right ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also isn't the fun you had along the way making it part of the fun you had in games ?

> > > > >

> > > > > I’m going to comment on this because you keep equating other potential paths, in other modes, as easy... Nobody is asking for easy, or devoid of “hard work and dedication”, that’s an assumption on your part and a huge flaw in your argument.

> > > > >

> > > > > The request was having additional paths to legendary gear... and most of us know the dev team would still be using similar time frames of effort to earn each piece of gear and the same material requirements.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is this understandable to you?

> > > >

> > > > That's the thing, Ohoni is asking for open world and there is nothing currently in game that requires hard work or dedication about being successful in open world PvE that's measurable and wouldn't cause more problems than it solves (if you measure how many successful DS metas someone runs then everyone and their mother will want to be a commander of that and then watch the map chat become toxic as multiple commanders all try to command at the same time...). And every time ANet tries to put in harder things, the community asks for it to be nerfed and ANet obliges. Open world PvE is easy compared to raids, PvP and the PvP aspects of WvW.

> > >

> > > By that logic, we should remove all gen 1 and 2 legendary weapons, and aurora, from open world pve and put them in raids... because ya know... those owpve "easy" mode areas don't require any "hard work and dedication"... We should also make it a bannable offense to sell, and buy, raid runs because letting players stand there isn't "hard work or dedication" either. Right?

> >

> > Last time I checked, I had to do some dungeons to make a legendary and if I wanted to make my own precursor, I have to do some fractals. And I have to do WvW.

> >

> > And did you actually read my replies to Ohoni? Raids aren't cheap to buy runs of because you're paying for the time of 9 other people. That takes dedication to farm that gold enough times to get the necessary currency.

> >

> > And did you read what I said: nothing in game currently that's MEASURABLE.

> >

> > And I said open world PvE was easy compared to the other modes or other aspects of the same mode. The maps have gotten harder, but the AI still has the enemies stand in lava fonts. Real players in PvP and WvW would most likely get out of the area (not necessarily burn a dodge, however). And raids require the coordination and skill that is too much for open world.

>

> So farming gold is the “hard work and dedication” that makes standing in a raid, and letting players carry someone, acceptable in your book? Do you also feel the same way about using the good ol’ credit card (because someone has to work irl to pay it off) or work the bltc (which takes time, mental energy and being trade savvy) for gold to pay for standing in a raid?

>

> I see, so all those meta events and legendary requirements don’t require coordination and skill and effort and time? Let me guess, all the collections aren’t worthy as effort in your book either?

>

> If we redesigned the legendary system according to your logic, then it’s pretty clear all legendary gear should only be available in raids, and to make sure each player puts in the “real” effort, we ban buying and selling raids. Sound good?

>

> Edit- it’s pretty interesting how you think a player farming gold for raid carries is applying a real and superior effort over another player who plays the game achieving specific goals...

What does being fine with people buying raids to get the LI to get legendary armor have any proof that I think those people are superior to those who play the game achieving specific goals?! Here's the answer: nothing. I don't think either group is superior to the other. They want different things out of the game and different preferences. The only groups that I feel are inferior are: cheaters, gold sellers (and those who buy from them - they wouldn't exist if people didn't buy), hackers, and other such groups who break the TOS of the game.

You guys were asking for different methods. Buying your way through raids is another path to getting legendary armor without having to PvP or WvW. And you can get the gold from just about anything so you can play what you want.

I said that there's nothing that's MEASURABLE in game CURRENTLY that shows hard work and dedication. And legendary armor shouldn't be a checklist of random collections that already exist.

I wouldn't be opposed with something akin to the legendary precursor collections being **added** with more emphasis on the more challenging content that open world PvE has to offer. That has some interchangeable pieces (like the various Gifts of Exploration for Core, HoT, and PoF being exchangeable in it) or pieces that can be bought using various currencies (like badges of honor or airship parts or karma, etc). Interchangeable parts and currencies also help when things get buggy with one part (like the various bugged events that are required for the precursors).

I have no problem with a unique skin to PvE being added. I only have a problem with skins not being exclusive. And I'd even be fine with say a 12 month exclusive period and ANet comes up with new legendary skins every 12 months and when you get a legendary armor piece you get to choose its skin once there's more than one version. So while each mod would have it's exclusive skin, after 12 months a new exclusive skin is released and the old exclusive becomes available.

Though I'd be more happier with a method that could be repeated - so more like gather X items and trade in for Y item. Then once you have Y1, Y2, Y3, Y4 items you combine them in the forge for item Z.