Ayrilana.1396

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Even IF raids are hard, wouldn't having that kind of group content be a good thing? You know for having people play the game long term?

>

> What the point of spending 10% to 15% of your resources on content less than 1% of the player will ever attempt?

> Those resources would better be spent on content that more people might play.

>

Do you have a source which backs up that raids was taking up 10-15% of resources on content?

> @"knite.1542" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > You do realize that it was the community that made Gors a DPS check and not Anet, right? You can do the actual mechanic for that attack instead if the group's DPS is that low. If a group still insists on skipping that mechanic, they can just break the bar slower assuming they have the sustain to deal with retal.

>

> I've actually seen people that don't know that you can break a wall and glide to avoid the attack.

I've seen that too and that kind of thing is common in other areas of the game. The community adopts a method and players assume that must be the only way, The whole circle strat in Dragon's Stand wasn't the intended method but it was the simplest to make work with pug maps. Most players don't know that there are also pods down in the pit which control the spawns that run up the ramp to the pods above.

The thing about raid bosses is that the minimum DPS that you need is the boss' HP divided by the number of seconds in the fight until the enrage timer. Technically in some cases you can go past that but I'll assume a group of new players wouldn't be able to. For gorseval, with 6 DPS players doing all of the damage, they would need to do around like 9K each. The downside with longer fights though is that the players will then have to deal with more of the mechanics which opens up the opportunity for bad things to happen.

For those that want other difficulties, I wonder how many of them have actually tried raids at all. For those of them who have, I wonder how many of them failed because of the enrage timer.

You do realize that it was the community that made Gors a DPS check and not Anet, right? You can do the actual mechanic for that attack instead if the group's DPS is that low. If a group still insists on skipping that mechanic, they can just break the bar slower assuming they have the sustain to deal with retal.

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> Jalis Hammer's does no't have a target cap.

They do. All of the Jalis abilities are 5 targets except for Vengeful Hammers which is 3 targets. You only get an illusion that there isn't one, since you have essentially three projectiles spinning around you, but they only hit one target per hammer at a time.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:.

> **Anet flat out said they nerfed the dungeon rewards because they wanted dungeon players to move to raids**. That was what dealt the killing blow. Partially reverting that nerf later on didn't help - by that point everyone already got the message and left. Up to this point however, even after being abandoned, dungeons were doing fine.

Source?

> So, yeah, while devs had other reasons for not wanting to touch dungeons, they _killed_ them because of raids.

>

Source?

EDIT:

I’ll just make my point here instead of wait for you to find your source.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-economy/

> Over the last couple of years, dungeons have been a major part of the game’s economy; between unique armor and liquid rewards, they’re often farmed. In the expansion, we’ll move away from this paradigm. As the game progressed, we shifted focus from dungeons to fractals and raids, and we firmly believe that fractals and raids are the content that we want to continue to support. As a part of that process, we’ll shift some rewards away from dungeons and into other pieces of content. While dungeons will remain cool experiences that’ll reward players with unique items, their liquid rewards will be reduced and other content will become more rewarding. The shift in rewards is a direct representation of our focus on raids and fractals and our commitment to make them the best they can be.

Notice how they mentioned other areas of the game such as fractals?

You blame raids for the reason that Anet killed dungeons when Anet has clearly stated in the past that they had intended for fractals to be the new dungeons going forward and they were only going to support them. You’re clearly wrong.

You’re also partially wrong in regards to the rewards nerf as the rewards also went to fractals which you left out for some reason.

The full text includes challenges in it.

> @"Pockethole.5031" said:

> **The high difficulty is the problem, you have raid level trash mobs around the map.**

It is far from that.

The game has players who fall under a wide spectrum of skill levels. Open world PvE tends to be catered towards the lower end of that. It should not be set so those at the very bottom can breeze through effortlessly.

~~Technically they did as this was a change requested by people.~~

Never mind. Misinterpreted the post.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Jilora.9524" said:

> > > I mean it's 10k karma or some easy marks. Some might not have ton karma and rather spend crystals

> >

> > I personally found 10K karma quicker to get and we also have Wintersday coming up in two weeks which will provide a ton of karma.

> >

> > It's a choice to farm the same DRMs again sixteen times or so for the weapons or do other content instead that might be more engaging.

>

> You don't even need to do the DRM's. Just exchange materials or do Field of Ruins - events and Ogre kills. The daily achievements give the tokens

Hence the "or do other content instead that might be more engaging"

> @"Jilora.9524" said:

> I mean it's 10k karma or some easy marks. Some might not have ton karma and rather spend crystals

I personally found 10K karma quicker to get and we also have Wintersday coming up in two weeks which will provide a ton of karma.

It's a choice to farm the same DRMs again sixteen times or so for the weapons or do other content instead that might be more engaging.

> @"Len.1879" said:

> It's funny. Players keep asking for balance patches. And when it rolls around the corner threads like this immediately pop up: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/119399/goodbye-tempest#latest

>

> inb4 Tempest players "hurr, this isn't balance, this is gutting!!1"

Yeah. This happens every time. It's even worse when people want a preview because then we see this twice for the same balance changes.

The Ebon Vanguard weapons in Eye of the North can be bought in Ebonhawke for 9,800 karma each.

https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ebon_Vanguard_weapons

EDIT: The trident for the 10 support marks is the only thing not available from those karma merchants. If you intend to complete the achievement for supporting the Ebon Vanguard, wait until you complete it as it can likely drop from those supply boxes.

> @"vier.1327" said:

> What really happened:

>

> Gw2 player + raids = Elitism, META addiction and selling runs.

>

> Arenanet does not like it, so no more raids.

>

That’s not why.

Repeatability may have nothing to do with what you said but that doesn’t mean it should be ignored. What would happen if the existing rewards players get daily from doing fractals was set to be weekly only? What kind of impact would that have? Would fractals still be as rewarding as before? Would it still be comparable to open world farms?

I’d say that we don’t need Destiny’s Edge nor Dragon’s Watch and will even dare to say that I don’t feel that either really exist anymore with the former being the more obvious of the two.

> @"AoTsuki.8675" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > If they’re rich then it certainly wasn’t from doing raids. The rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them. The most brain dead content in the game is the most rewarding while the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

> > >

> > > Nah, apparently the theoretical gph of raids isn't bad at all.

> >

> > It's fairly bad compared to other things in PvE such as SW and DF.

> >

> > Let me put this into some perspective. The liquid gold that you get is 2G per boss. If you do a full raid clear, this comes to 64G if the bonus wing has four encounters. You can add another 15G on average for selling the random exotics. If you can clear all 7 wings in 3 hours, that's 20G per hour. Also note in my post where I stated that the "rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them". With this being the most challenging content in the game, the rewards should be much higher than the rewards from the least challenging content (open world).

>

> That's very generous and could be expected only of the best groups, I'd say average would be 9 hours for all wings and that already accounts for group being above average (it's not unheard of to be stumped on dhuum and quadim).

> 3 hours for all wings is possible only for the best of players.

Yep. I was using three hours as more of a best case scenario to show that even the g/hr at that rate was lower than other gold farms.

What I find surprising is that there are still those who believe that the liquid rewards in raids are comparable to elsewhere in the game. It’s as if they didn’t even bother to calculate how much is earned and are blindly making an assumption.

It’d just be another game mode for Anet to inevitably sideline.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > If they’re rich then it certainly wasn’t from doing raids. The rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them. The most brain dead content in the game is the most rewarding while the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nah, apparently the theoretical gph of raids isn't bad at all.

> > > >

> > > > Yes and then you have to calculate that you can only do it 1 time a week not all day everyday and it goes down the kitten.

> > >

> > > That's kind of the tradeoff for being able tu buy ascended gear without needing to craft marks, isn't it?

> > > I mean, you need 20 Grandmaster marks for a full set in WvW and Fractals.

> > > Here's how much that costs approximately:

> > > https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~20-80857

> > >

> > > In raids, you can just "wait" a bit, and while you've cleared a raid for the week, you can go do other stuff and earn more gold that you won't be spending on crafting those marks, plus all the materials you get that again, you won't be spending crafting them.

> > >

> > > Fractal and WvW people get less gold per week. Especially WvW players, and still need to craft all the stuff that's hard to obtain in WvW.

> > >

> > > Honestly, the rewards from Raids seem pretty good to me, especially compared to other modes.

> > > You're basically given ascended armor and weapons for free. That's a huge potential gold value right there.

> >

> > That's a **non-monetary** reward, which depending on the player, has a cap before it becomes useless. I've been tossing ascended drops and no longer open the chests.

>

> You're seriously dropping ascended gear? You know you can salvage that for pretty useful stuff.

>

Like what? I'd be spending 1G per salvage.

> Anyway - if you're at the point where you can afford dropping ascended like it's nothing, then you don't need any more rewards, you're done, just enjoy the content and maybe branch into other content idk...

>

Would you say the same about every other area of the game? If they have all of the existing rewards then they're done, should just enjoy the content, and maybe branch out to other content.

> Honestly, what can the game give you that you don't already have?

>

Gold. You know, the type of reward that is given so much more freely in other areas of the game which can be used to purchase a huge amount of items in the game.

> As for *non-monetary* reward, that's just as valuable as straight up gold.

So all those people that have no use for ascended gear value that ascended gear the same as they would as if they had received gold?

> Look, i'm not opposed to you guys getting better rewards, but if raids get them, everyone should get them. That's all i'm saying.

Other areas of the game already get better rewards. There's no reason for those other areas to be buffed.

> Because otherwise, raids become **the** content to get anything done and other modes become gold loss.

For those that can already do raids, yes, those other modes would be a "loss". Keep in mind that raids are a weekly thing and any increase in the liquid gold regards would have practically zero impact on other areas of the game.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > If they’re rich then it certainly wasn’t from doing raids. The rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them. The most brain dead content in the game is the most rewarding while the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

> > >

> > > Nah, apparently the theoretical gph of raids isn't bad at all.

> >

> > Yes and then you have to calculate that you can only do it 1 time a week not all day everyday and it goes down the kitten.

>

> That's kind of the tradeoff for being able tu buy ascended gear without needing to craft marks, isn't it?

> I mean, you need 20 Grandmaster marks for a full set in WvW and Fractals.

> Here's how much that costs approximately:

> https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~20-80857

>

> In raids, you can just "wait" a bit, and while you've cleared a raid for the week, you can go do other stuff and earn more gold that you won't be spending on crafting those marks, plus all the materials you get that again, you won't be spending crafting them.

>

> Fractal and WvW people get less gold per week. Especially WvW players, and still need to craft all the stuff that's hard to obtain in WvW.

>

> Honestly, the rewards from Raids seem pretty good to me, especially compared to other modes.

> You're basically given ascended armor and weapons for free. That's a huge potential gold value right there.

That's a **non-monetary** reward, which depending on the player, has a cap before it becomes useless. I've been tossing ascended drops and no longer open the chests.

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > If they’re rich then it certainly wasn’t from doing raids. The rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them. The most brain dead content in the game is the most rewarding while the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

>

> Nah, apparently the theoretical gph of raids isn't bad at all.

It's fairly bad compared to other things in PvE such as SW and DF.

Let me put this into some perspective. The liquid gold that you get is 2G per boss. If you do a full raid clear, this comes to 64G if the bonus wing has four encounters. You can add another 15G on average for selling the random exotics. If you can clear all 7 wings in 3 hours, that's 20G per hour. Also note in my post where I stated that the "rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them". With this being the most challenging content in the game, the rewards should be much higher than the rewards from the least challenging content (open world).

> @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > If they’re rich then it certainly wasn’t from doing raids. The rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them. The most brain dead content in the game is the most rewarding while the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

>

> If it wouldn't be rewarding, nobody would do the weeklies. You can say that "yes they would" and maybe that is true for you, but for most it isn't. How can i tell? The endless howling for more and better rewards from raiders all across MMOs. It's true though that raids are the most brain dead content as you just do the same thing over and Over and OVer and OVEr and OVER an... I'm sure you get the gist.

What do you think the g/hr for raids and what is that compared to SW and DF?

New players are not at a disadvantage as they have the same opportunities to make gold as existing players.

If they’re rich then it certainly wasn’t from doing raids. The rewards in this game are inversely proportional to the challenge to obtain them. The most brain dead content in the game is the most rewarding while the most challenging content is the least rewarding.

Players do not need to be WvW savvy to complete it. Simply flip camps, escort yaks, flip sentries, and etc. You don’t need to interact with other players, whether your own server’s or an enemy’s, to do this.