Glad to see the same professions are still Meta (Fix mesmers!)

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > 80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release

>

> That is you assuming, don’t try to weasel out of it. Statements like that are nothing more than your opinion, trying to push it onto the masses as fact is just ignorant.

>

>

>

 

Have you got evidence to prove otherwise?

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > 80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release

> >

> > That is you assuming, don’t try to weasel out of it. Statements like that are nothing more than your opinion, trying to push it onto the masses as fact is just ignorant.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Have you got evidence to prove otherwise?

 

Do you have evidence to prove its the truth?

[Zoser.7245]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > > > yea I think the opposite is true. mesmers are in need of a buff.

> > > > >

> > > > > No they don't....**mesmers for the first time in 5 years** have to work for their kills...for the past 5 years every average Joe could jump on mesmer and become a duellist god, many with time started to actually believe to be the hottest thing around. Dunno how many times in the past I would duel some clowns and win easy.....only for these living jokes to re-login on their **condi mesmer** and become 1v1 pro like that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Blur into distortion into stealth into distortion into dodge into stealth into blur again......**a massive uncounterable defensive rotation** that would make even the worst player out there look like a god; all those dodges also come with their perks because...why not?! and so we have clones cannon fodder ....reflection..yup...

> > > > >

> > > > > 80% of current mesmer population are just some FOTM rerollers who jumped on the class after Hot launch thx to chrono bunker BS, chrono condi burst then PoF mirage etc etc, they never learnt to actually play the class and all its nuances.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can easily tell the difference between core mesmers from launch and staff clone ambush campers ( vast majority of which just spend their time on the forum asking for buffs), the latter run quickly out of steam and start crying once their "invincible" strategy fails, no more able to let their clones do all the works ( funny the same people then complain about ranger saying how pet does all the dmg..amusing) while they just staff 2/stealth/hide like champs and climb like hell.

> > > > >

> > > > > No more cocky condi champs running and laughing at you in wvw it seems...**good riddance**

> > > >

> > > > I did not play mesmer because it's Fotm. It was my first class. Also mesmer hasn't been an optimal build metabattle for ages. Yeah, mesmers stomp trash players and I've acknowledged that, but outside that, they're not really that great and haven't been since the change in phantasm. At least seemingly so as I missed the time in between them removing phantasms and S4 end when I came back. The class like 6 months ago was maybe working for kills because there were still some plat mesmers. Now it's hot garbage that probably still confuses absolute noobs, but is useless against anything with a head between its shoulders.

> > >

> > > After taking the salt and the drama away..this is how your post read : " The class now still outperform against new players but will leave average results against more experienced ones "...yeah that's called **balance**, mesmer mains should get used to it, time would be better invested in learning a class post FOTM levels ( even if in theory that should have been done way before jumping on mesmer train )

> > >

> > > To reiterate what I stated days ago : **80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers** who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release , they were not around when @"Helseth.5069" (long live the king ) was at his prime , these "mesmers" will now cry their eyes out on the forum asking for a level of buff that will understandably never come.

> > >

> > > The only way for threads to work would be for **mesmer to reach the same levels of ele in 2013** when the class was so bad for real that the devs found themselves forced **to cancel most of the recently applied nerfs**.

> > >

> > > Right now mesmer is no more that insta duel win powerhouse , a reality that is here to stay and a reality all these mesmer "main" need to get used to

> >

> > You know what happens when you assume, right?

>

> I don't assume anything here...I know that many mesmer main are just bitter , now they get to kiss the ground when doing too many mistakes and it's a feeling you now must get used to..a feeling ele players have been knowing for the last 5 years.

> Many classes have been described as "duellist"...all of them suffered the same fate..all curb nerfed from stardom to the stalls , then built back somehow bit by bit in another light.

>

> The "I win as long as I don't feel asleep on the keyboard"..it's over, now sometimes you win...other you lose , welcome to real life

 

At the moment all I see is that the sustain in many professions is very high. And the Mirages spend most of their trying to escape since they are immediately exposed after a short fight often with almost no health. That happens to even the best players analizing their latest streamings. In any of the streams of the top players you can analyze and see which profession is the one that dies most often now and is the weakest one. I think that you already imagine which it is, right? Yes Mesmers of any kind. The sustain is going to be nerfed, not sure how that will affect Mesmers but after that balance we will see how that affect each one.

 

What is true and very likely, is that the number of people playing mesmers is declining for now, the re-roll wave is already happening and many that were playing mesmer are already playing other professions. But that will always happen regardless of which class is dominating or more rewarding to play with less effort. Those people will always change from one to another and they are not mesmers. They are a large majority that always want to ride or bet to the winning horse regardless of their rank. Link that people to Mesmers is a big error, those players don't have a class as identity, they only join what is OP. That the Mirage ends up in the trash won't change that. You'll find the same people over and over playing the most OP or easier for win. Literally because with the few population who actually play PvP today, there is no other option for you but to see them daily. And even worse for you, not only do you have to endure them daily but also the day they get tired and quit the game, maybe there will no more people with whom you can play.

 

That there is an upcoming expansion does not guarantee that PvP will have a bigger player base. Good to know that you enjoy watching others bite the dust and kiss the ground. That already gives us an idea of ​​what ilk you are. It is good to know it and be warned.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > > > yea I think the opposite is true. mesmers are in need of a buff.

> > > > >

> > > > > No they don't....**mesmers for the first time in 5 years** have to work for their kills...for the past 5 years every average Joe could jump on mesmer and become a duellist god, many with time started to actually believe to be the hottest thing around. Dunno how many times in the past I would duel some clowns and win easy.....only for these living jokes to re-login on their **condi mesmer** and become 1v1 pro like that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Blur into distortion into stealth into distortion into dodge into stealth into blur again......**a massive uncounterable defensive rotation** that would make even the worst player out there look like a god; all those dodges also come with their perks because...why not?! and so we have clones cannon fodder ....reflection..yup...

> > > > >

> > > > > 80% of current mesmer population are just some FOTM rerollers who jumped on the class after Hot launch thx to chrono bunker BS, chrono condi burst then PoF mirage etc etc, they never learnt to actually play the class and all its nuances.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can easily tell the difference between core mesmers from launch and staff clone ambush campers ( vast majority of which just spend their time on the forum asking for buffs), the latter run quickly out of steam and start crying once their "invincible" strategy fails, no more able to let their clones do all the works ( funny the same people then complain about ranger saying how pet does all the dmg..amusing) while they just staff 2/stealth/hide like champs and climb like hell.

> > > > >

> > > > > No more cocky condi champs running and laughing at you in wvw it seems...**good riddance**

> > > >

> > > > I did not play mesmer because it's Fotm. It was my first class. Also mesmer hasn't been an optimal build metabattle for ages. Yeah, mesmers stomp trash players and I've acknowledged that, but outside that, they're not really that great and haven't been since the change in phantasm. At least seemingly so as I missed the time in between them removing phantasms and S4 end when I came back. The class like 6 months ago was maybe working for kills because there were still some plat mesmers. Now it's hot garbage that probably still confuses absolute noobs, but is useless against anything with a head between its shoulders.

> > >

> > > After taking the salt and the drama away..this is how your post read : " The class now still outperform against new players but will leave average results against more experienced ones "...yeah that's called **balance**, mesmer mains should get used to it, time would be better invested in learning a class post FOTM levels ( even if in theory that should have been done way before jumping on mesmer train )

> > >

> > > To reiterate what I stated days ago : **80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers** who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release , they were not around when @"Helseth.5069" (long live the king ) was at his prime , these "mesmers" will now cry their eyes out on the forum asking for a level of buff that will understandably never come.

> > >

> > > The only way for threads to work would be for **mesmer to reach the same levels of ele in 2013** when the class was so bad for real that the devs found themselves forced **to cancel most of the recently applied nerfs**.

> > >

> > > Right now mesmer is no more that insta duel win powerhouse , a reality that is here to stay and a reality all these mesmer "main" need to get used to

> >

> > You know what happens when you assume, right?

>

> I don't assume anything here...I know that many mesmer main are just bitter , now they get to kiss the ground when doing too many mistakes and it's a feeling you now must get used to..a feeling ele players have been knowing for the last 5 years.

> Many classes have been described as "duellist"...all of them suffered the same fate..all curb nerfed from stardom to the stalls , then built back somehow bit by bit in another light.

>

> The "I win as long as I don't feel asleep on the keyboard"..it's over, now sometimes you win...other you lose , welcome to real life

 

This reads pretty bitter on a very high horse and kind of missing the mark, projecting assumed feelings that tbh just aren't real (though I can only speak for myself here).

 

As someone who enjoyed pvp more in that time period prior to hot, personally it plays just fine. That's not the issue.

 

The issue is the "balance" decisions continue to appear as quick/crude band-aid fixes, that don't appear to have any overarching coherent plan, neither for thematic purposes or to cultivate a space where a variety of builds can flourish.

 

Neither the removal of IP from Chrono nor this skill split of endurance on mirage appear to provide a good foundation for each spec, when the community as a whole has been fairly united when it comes to pointing out issue of, eg clone ambushes, or CSplit skill double up spam. Even the issue of being able to use mirage cloak at any time - which either they are unwilling to change, or aren't able to change.

 

Both especs and core need a massive and thorough review to establish clear themes and gameplay. Shatter skills could do with being differentiated for mirage as well. Each spec should have clear and unique gameplay - eg save old school shatter for Core, tradeoff shatters for each espec - Chrono could have had different shatters with pulsing pbaoe for support/control, and Mirage should have been about clone management with shatters possibly being clone commands not destroying them. Just throwing random ideas out, because while so called "balance" may be ok, that doesn't mean the profession as a whole isn't an incoherent mess.

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > 80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release

> >

> > That is you assuming, don’t try to weasel out of it. Statements like that are nothing more than your opinion, trying to push it onto the masses as fact is just ignorant.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Have you got evidence to prove otherwise?

 

If I put my mind to it, I can give you a pretty long list of Mesmers that I know and have played it since launch, you know back when Mesmer was a really niche class and required extreme efforts to be played successfully, while the rest of you kids were busy playing in the sandbox with your warrs and necros.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > 80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release

>

> That is you assuming, don’t try to weasel out of it. Statements like that are nothing more than your opinion, trying to push it onto the masses as fact is just ignorant.

 

I also suspect, but have no way of proving, that a number of mesmer players have opted to quit rather than rerolling. That's like, the opposite of being a FOTM-er.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > 80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release

> >

> > That is you assuming, don’t try to weasel out of it. Statements like that are nothing more than your opinion, trying to push it onto the masses as fact is just ignorant.

> >

> >

> >

>

> Have you got evidence to prove otherwise?

 

You made the claim, burden of proof is upon you unless you'd like to admit maybe it was a generalised statement based solely upon your personal experience.

[Senqu.8054]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"pninak.1069" said:

> > > > yea I think the opposite is true. mesmers are in need of a buff.

> > >

> > > No they don't....**mesmers for the first time in 5 years** have to work for their kills...for the past 5 years every average Joe could jump on mesmer and become a duellist god, many with time started to actually believe to be the hottest thing around. Dunno how many times in the past I would duel some clowns and win easy.....only for these living jokes to re-login on their **condi mesmer** and become 1v1 pro like that.

> > >

> > > Blur into distortion into stealth into distortion into dodge into stealth into blur again......**a massive uncounterable defensive rotation** that would make even the worst player out there look like a god; all those dodges also come with their perks because...why not?! and so we have clones cannon fodder ....reflection..yup...

> > >

> > > 80% of current mesmer population are just some FOTM rerollers who jumped on the class after Hot launch thx to chrono bunker BS, chrono condi burst then PoF mirage etc etc, they never learnt to actually play the class and all its nuances.

> > >

> > > You can easily tell the difference between core mesmers from launch and staff clone ambush campers ( vast majority of which just spend their time on the forum asking for buffs), the latter run quickly out of steam and start crying once their "invincible" strategy fails, no more able to let their clones do all the works ( funny the same people then complain about ranger saying how pet does all the dmg..amusing) while they just staff 2/stealth/hide like champs and climb like hell.

> > >

> > > No more cocky condi champs running and laughing at you in wvw it seems...**good riddance**

> >

> > I did not play mesmer because it's Fotm. It was my first class. Also mesmer hasn't been an optimal build metabattle for ages. Yeah, mesmers stomp trash players and I've acknowledged that, but outside that, they're not really that great and haven't been since the change in phantasm. At least seemingly so as I missed the time in between them removing phantasms and S4 end when I came back. The class like 6 months ago was maybe working for kills because there were still some plat mesmers. Now it's hot garbage that probably still confuses absolute noobs, but is useless against anything with a head between its shoulders.

>

> After taking the salt and the drama away..this is how your post read : " The class now still outperform against new players but will leave average results against more experienced ones "...yeah that's called **balance**, mesmer mains should get used to it, time would be better invested in learning a class post FOTM levels ( even if in theory that should have been done way before jumping on mesmer train )

>

> To reiterate what I stated days ago : **80% of current mesmers are FOTM rerollers** who started acting up in pvp and gain relevance after chrono release , they were not around when @"Helseth.5069" (long live the king ) was at his prime , these "mesmers" will now cry their eyes out on the forum asking for a level of buff that will understandably never come.

>

> The only way for threads to work would be for **mesmer to reach the same levels of ele in 2013** when the class was so bad for real that the devs found themselves forced **to cancel most of the recently applied nerfs**.

>

> Right now mesmer is no more that insta duel win powerhouse , a reality that is here to stay and a reality all these mesmer "main" need to get used to

 

The ignorance from players like you still makes me wonder, you guys accept the deleting of basic mechanics from classes. We can call it balance if you want but in the end it just shows the incompetence of Anet. It adds up to the long series of introducing something just to delete it some month/years later. And it will never come back. The sad thing is all classes lost some great things over the years but we got to a point where people like you are a huge part of this community so we end up being busy complaining about each other with stupid arguments to justify bad buffs or nerfs.