Sobx.1758 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > So you can use when needed. :tongue: My point is that no CD on it wouldn't be OP, it wont win you a fight you already wouldn't already win, and a fight you would have lost would still be lost. Even fights would break your way more often though. So again, if it's irrelevant when it occurs then there's no point for it to have no icd. And in situations it happens it's simply at least another heal skill on a lower cdr than your regular one all the while you're dpsing. Sounds broken to me. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > So you can use when needed. :tongue: My point is that no CD on it wouldn't be OP, it wont win you a fight you already wouldn't already win, and a fight you would have lost would still be lost. Even fights would break your way more often though. > > So again, if it's irrelevant when it occurs then there's no point for it to have no icd. And in situations it happens it's simply at least another heal skill on a lower cdr than your regular one all the while you're dpsing. Sounds broken to me. :D Goes the other way to. If you feel it is irrelevant that the CD is there or not, then why have the CD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > So you can use when needed. :tongue: My point is that no CD on it wouldn't be OP, it wont win you a fight you already wouldn't already win, and a fight you would have lost would still be lost. Even fights would break your way more often though. > > > > So again, if it's irrelevant when it occurs then there's no point for it to have no icd. And in situations it happens it's simply at least another heal skill on a lower cdr than your regular one all the while you're dpsing. Sounds broken to me. :D > > Goes the other way to. If you feel it is irrelevant that the CD is there or not, then why have the CD? ...I don't feel that at all, in fact I'm saying having no icd could be broken. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoosh.2718 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Would it be broken if it was based on the adrenaline you have spent? Just like Berserker's Power and Adrenal Health? I'd so no, and that would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoosh.2718 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 1 Might per 10 adrenaline, 1 second per 10 adrenaline. Yes berserker will end up better off as a result, but it is the spec all about 'damage', so I would say that can be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > So you can use when needed. :tongue: My point is that no CD on it wouldn't be OP, it wont win you a fight you already wouldn't already win, and a fight you would have lost would still be lost. Even fights would break your way more often though. > > > > > > So again, if it's irrelevant when it occurs then there's no point for it to have no icd. And in situations it happens it's simply at least another heal skill on a lower cdr than your regular one all the while you're dpsing. Sounds broken to me. :D > > > > Goes the other way to. If you feel it is irrelevant that the CD is there or not, then why have the CD? > > ...I don't feel that at all, in fact I'm saying having no icd could be broken. ;) And I'm implying that it would not be broken. > @"Smoosh.2718" said: > Would it be broken if it was based on the adrenaline you have spent? Just like Berserker's Power and Adrenal Health? > > I'd so no, and that would be fine. Having it be tiered is not a bad thing, but again with no ICD. BP and AH don't have that holding them back, so why should Soldiers Focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > > So you can use when needed. :tongue: My point is that no CD on it wouldn't be OP, it wont win you a fight you already wouldn't already win, and a fight you would have lost would still be lost. Even fights would break your way more often though. > > > > > > > > So again, if it's irrelevant when it occurs then there's no point for it to have no icd. And in situations it happens it's simply at least another heal skill on a lower cdr than your regular one all the while you're dpsing. Sounds broken to me. :D > > > > > > Goes the other way to. If you feel it is irrelevant that the CD is there or not, then why have the CD? > > > > ...I don't feel that at all, in fact I'm saying having no icd could be broken. ;) > > And I'm implying that it would not be broken. I understand that part. But I thought it was about you saying you shouldn't be able to hit multiple bursts in fast succession anyways while at the same time proposing removal of icd? :p > @"Smoosh.2718" said: > Would it be broken if it was based on the adrenaline you have spent? Just like Berserker's Power and Adrenal Health? > > I'd so no, and that would be fine. If it would be based on adrenaline spent, then probably should be in a way @"RabbitUp.8294" proposed it above. Could be with different numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoosh.2718 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > If it would be based on adrenaline spent, then probably should be in a way @"RabbitUp.8294" proposed it above. Could be with different numbers. Aye something of that sort would work better than what is currently in place. Would mean you can activly play to reduce the cooldown of both your weapon skills and your trraits cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Reduce cooldown by 5 for every Shout used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > Reduce cooldown by 5 for every Shout used. > > > > > /seriousNotSerious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > /seriousNotSerious. I think it'll be a good addition to what we currently have at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > /seriousNotSerious. > > I think it'll be a good addition to what we currently have at any rate. > > > Or just make it refresh with a shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > The 15s cooldown feels like it holds that whole line of Tactics back. Especially since both Berserker and SB are designed to have spammy bursts. > > > > > > > > My suggestion would be to add an additional mechanic so that if you execute a burst while Soldier's Focus is on cooldown, you reduce the cooldown by 3-5 seconds (whatever feels appropriate), so the more you use your bursts, the faster Soldier's Focus comes back up. And of course that number can be tuned independently for PvP/WvW. > > > > > > Or just remove the CD, or just make it a 5s CD. 15s killed whatever they were trying to accomplish with the rework. > > > > No cooldown would be too broken with the other traits, the Master becomes an AoE 970 heal per burst, which is like a mega Adrenal Health, while the GM reduces weapon cooldowns by 3 seconds per burst, when SB can easily use 3-4 bursts in a row. Heck, Tactics would probably become the best dps line for pve, since Berzerker would just spam Decapitate and reset their Axe skills, all the while doing excellent AoE healing. > > > > Now that I'm thinking, even what I said would be too much, I think reducing the base cooldown to 12 and adding a 1 second cd reduction per adrenaline bar spent would be more balanced. > > See the other thread for the breakdown. No ICD would result in a sustained HOT between 2k to 3k, which is lower than other support specs (4k for water tempest for example) and this includes spamming healing shouts. > > Spamming Decap works wonders in PvE but you still need to rebuild adrenaline and good opponents can shut down this form of sustain with a block, blind, dodge, CC, or simply kiting. > > Soldiers Comfort and Martial Cadence would be decent in with no ICD, but it still depends on building adrenaline and not getting blocked, blinded, dodged or kited. If they are letting you hit with that many bursts, then the lack of CD would not be what won the fight for you. It would be broken in pve, though. You also get Empower Allies, which is already an excellent bonus for the group, and you wouldn't need any healing power to do any of this. 970 is already a very good amount, so stacking a couple of dps Berserkers would get EA to both subgroups and replace a dedicated healer. And with Phalanx Strength, you are giving 6 stacks of might per burst for 15s base, so those Zerkers could take the role of might stacking, too. It would be ok if the base numbers were lower, so you would have to invest in boon duration and healing power, but as it is, you get a full-dps build with great support capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > > > > So you can use when needed. :tongue: My point is that no CD on it wouldn't be OP, it wont win you a fight you already wouldn't already win, and a fight you would have lost would still be lost. Even fights would break your way more often though. > > > > > > > > So again, if it's irrelevant when it occurs then there's no point for it to have no icd. And in situations it happens it's simply at least another heal skill on a lower cdr than your regular one all the while you're dpsing. Sounds broken to me. :D > > > > > > Goes the other way to. If you feel it is irrelevant that the CD is there or not, then why have the CD? > > > > ...I don't feel that at all, in fact I'm saying having no icd could be broken. ;) > > And I'm implying that it would not be broken. > > > @"Smoosh.2718" said: > > Would it be broken if it was based on the adrenaline you have spent? Just like Berserker's Power and Adrenal Health? > > > > I'd so no, and that would be fine. > > Having it be tiered is not a bad thing, but again with no ICD. BP and AH don't have that holding them back, so why should Soldiers Focus. BP and AH don't have caps, but they have stack caps, which accomplish the same thing. You don't get more benefit by spamming more bursts, as long as you land the minimum requirement of 1 Level 3 burst (or its equivalent) every 15 seconds. Any further bursts only refresh the duration. But that's the nature of the benefits those traits provide, one being a damage bonus, the other a heal per second. They could give them a 15s icd, and it would pretty much have the same effect, only difference would be that you have to land the burst at that exact 15s window to not lose uptime, but the end benefit would be the same. But theses two traits here provide an instant bonus, you get a heal packet or 3s off of your weapon cooldowns. The more bursts you use, the more benefits, so they have to have some gating mechanism. Of course, having said that, one obvious change would be to make Soldier's Comfort work similarly to AH, i.e. as a heal over time bonus, but if we are reworking traits to that extend, I would rather they decoupled Soldier's Focus from bursts entirely. I get it that bursts are the profession mechanic, but I feel like half the traits are about improving bursts, or doing something when you land a burst/spent adrenaline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aridon.8362 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I don't know, support warrior feels super lackluster even for WvW. The buffs it gives isn't worth the minstrel armor. The build on metabattle feels pretty awful. Something that's better is to go with something with a stat that gives power where you can cleave with arc divider or double axe. If you're looking to support probably the best idea is to take the warhorn trait and go with axe, then combo with greatsword. Berserker in my opinion comes first to spellbreaker in Zerg fights because that's where your usefulness really excels, the better you cleave the easier you make it to get kills. Also armor wise if you're really looking for support, take something with power, ignore vitality as you won't need it, your guards and soulbeasts and necros should be able to keep your 19khp alive. Soldiers with some ferocity and precision is the best a warrior can do with sustainability. Get your boon duration from runes of leadership or something. You can always take tactics for the shake it off and heal it gives but otherwise leave the supporting to the supports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Warrior support is fine for wvw, considering it competes with elite specs that are more dedicated to support than Spellbreaker. The weird thing about support warrior is how much selfish support it has. Mending Might does some crazy self-healing in group scenarios, For Great Justice alone heals for 3000 base, before adding Vigorous Shouts. It would make much more sense to have Mending Might heal allies you grant might to, which would increase Warrior's healing capabilities and synergize better with the all the AoE might Tactics provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > Warrior support is fine for wvw, considering it competes with elite specs that are more dedicated to support than Spellbreaker. > > The weird thing about support warrior is how much selfish support it has. Mending Might does some crazy self-healing in group scenarios, For Great Justice alone heals for 3000 base, before adding Vigorous Shouts. It would make much more sense to have Mending Might heal allies you grant might to, which would increase Warrior's healing capabilities and synergize better with the all the AoE might Tactics provide. I would say the same about MMR, but others didn't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 MMR is in a selfish line though and only works with personal might, so it makes sense. Tactics is focused on support and ally healing, but Mending Might gives yourself all the benefit for supporting others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 like i discussed in my thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/102466/pvp-soldiers-focus-feels-underwhelming-compared-to-explosive-entrance soldier's focus is a great concept implemented poorly. specially compared to explosive entrance, created from the same concept. basically introducing a new mechanics in minor and having selected traits that buff this mechanics. i think the traits that buff soldier's focus are too insignificant, unlike explosive entrance related traits, specially the grand master trait, it's only taken because the other traits are too specialized, aka group play only and shout only. not to mention it's base effect is also very weak. add trait that reduces cooldown, give a type to this mechanics or make 600 range base line are all decent changes to this trait. i felt like the this unique mechanics soldier's focus was added to boost up warrior's support power, but it feels very insignificant and even pre-nerf, warrior's main support was shout heal, i'm not sure i'm understanding the point of soldier's focus at all. btw warrior support in wvw is only about the bubble, there's nothing else about warrior support that's remotely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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