Necro and Guard are so Broken atm

[Ovark.2514]

Just played a match where the other team had a tempest support, 2 FBs and 2 core necros. all they had to do was leave 1 necro on their home pt all game even if no one was there and they would win outnumbered on mid. WTF is this!?

[Drennon.7190]

The sum of damage nerfs across the board.

[KrHome.1920]

Why didn't you kill (or push off the capture point with CC) the single necro on far? That's two capture points for you they never can flip back as they deal no damage (I guess the tempest and the two FB were heal bots - you did not specify that).

[ollbirtan.2915]

Oh look! Another Guard /Necro OP thread....

[Ovark.2514]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Why didn't you kill (or push off the capture point with CC) the single necro on far? That's two capture points for you they never can flip back as they deal no damage (I guess the tempest and the two FB were heal bots - you did not specify that).

 

Except it takes an eternity to kill the necro 1v1. It took 2 of us to cc the necro off the point. Then we are 3v4 at mid. That's not to mention people coming from mid to help them. I can't believe I have to spell that out

[Drennon.7190]

> @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> Oh look! Another Guard /Necro OP thread....

 

DH and core feel fine, maybe a little under tuned, but SB feels too strong.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > Why didn't you kill (or push off the capture point with CC) the single necro on far? That's two capture points for you they never can flip back as they deal no damage (I guess the tempest and the two FB were heal bots - you did not specify that).

>

> Except it takes an eternity to kill the necro 1v1. It took 2 of us to cc the necro off the point. Then we are 3v4 at mid. That's not to mention people coming from mid to help them. I can't believe I have to spell that out

 

You have 3 people kite around mid not really doing anything but keeping them tunnel visioned on the node while 2 people kill the necro on his home and farm him all game. When the enemy shifts people so do you to stall a team fight and win vs the 1 or 2.

 

It's called rotation.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Why didn't you kill (or push off the capture point with CC) the single necro on far? That's two capture points for you they never can flip back as they deal no damage (I guess the tempest and the two FB were heal bots - you did not specify that).

 

becouse it takes 30s+ to kill them, and at that point you lose mid, and get steamrolled far, or lose mid and 2 firebrands come and heal/rez necro instantly, it can be done but its not as simple as just attacking necro.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

This is what happens when u nerf hammer damage but all while not considering certain class mechanics ie shroud or classes access to defensive skills ie guards. With those left un touched their survivability to damage ratio is way out of balance.

Its certainly telling of something that most matches are full of guards/fb/dh, necro and revs, I mean to an obvious extent lol.

[rng.1024]

Okay I'll bite.

 

The optimal play here is to leave mid and play sides - they simply have the better teamfighting comp.

 

Second their comp is SLOW with near to no forward ports or leaps, meaning you have the time to reach a point and decap it before they catch up.

 

Just looking at their comp you see this match is going to be a slow burn. From the getgo we let them have mid. Since they placed one necro on their close, they also need 1 player to guard mid. This allows for 3 of them to fully push your close. What do you do?

 

Assuming you lost first mid and got 3-capped, you start by 5v3 your close. Forget the rest. If you don't win this the enemy comp is not the issue. Say you win eventually. They now have 1 guy mid and 1 guy at far left. 1 of you stay behind and the other 4 push mid for a quick kill.

 

Once that is done, all you have to do is focus all your might on mid. No use going far AT ALL at this point. They will funnel into a 4v5 mid, or try to sneak past to close. If they try, send ONE sustainy player there to keep it in your favor while the rest 4v3 at mid still. If the guy you sent close fails and the point gets neutral, you can even send 3 more players there for a quick kill while one tries to hold mid as they funnel back into the map.

 

Once they win at close, all go mid again. Even if you lose mid in the process you will now come back with a 5v3 (since you just killed one and their nec is afk on far).

 

Again if you can't win a 5v3, then not even rotations are going to help you. Then your teams mechanical skill and/or dmg output is too low to be able to deal with any player on the opposite team.

 

Rotation wise I love seeing these plays with these comps, because it means they need to split up their support between mid and far, making for easy kills you can sbowball on.

 

There's always a most effective rotation to any scenario or comp! And here I even took the worst case scenario, where none of your team go far, which would have made things way easier stretching the enemy support even thinner. Yet with the enemy necro always on far, you will have the numbers advantage in every fight. If not the reason will always be bad rotations.

[Revolution.5409]

Bunker Meta coming soon! xD

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> This is what happens when u nerf hammer damage but all while not considering certain class mechanics ie shroud or classes access to defensive skills ie guards. With those left un touched their survivability to damage ratio is way out of balance.

> Its certainly telling of something that most matches are full of guards/fb/dh, necro and revs, I mean to an obvious extent lol.

 

I think hammer wasn't nerfed enough, it needs the CC to be halved on top of the damage reduction to bring it in line.

Warrior is still too strong.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > This is what happens when u nerf hammer damage but all while not considering certain class mechanics ie shroud or classes access to defensive skills ie guards. With those left un touched their survivability to damage ratio is way out of balance.

> > Its certainly telling of something that most matches are full of guards/fb/dh, necro and revs, I mean to an obvious extent lol.

>

> I think hammer wasn't nerfed enough, it needs the CC to be halved on top of the damage reduction to bring it in line.

> Warrior is still too strong.

 

Yes true enough warrior hammer still to strong. Auto's and 1 skill do damage and rest cc with no damage lol. We should definitely remove some cc so hammer does no damage or cc----- gw2 community mentality in a nutshell. Ur a mesmer main right? Seems bout right.

Then said community complain that pvp in the game sucks and is bleeding players to a point match making doesn't even function properly lol.

Well played...well played, on to the next vid lol

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > This is what happens when u nerf hammer damage but all while not considering certain class mechanics ie shroud or classes access to defensive skills ie guards. With those left un touched their survivability to damage ratio is way out of balance.

> > > Its certainly telling of something that most matches are full of guards/fb/dh, necro and revs, I mean to an obvious extent lol.

> >

> > I think hammer wasn't nerfed enough, it needs the CC to be halved on top of the damage reduction to bring it in line.

> > Warrior is still too strong.

>

> Yes true enough warrior hammer still to strong. Auto's and 1 skill do damage and rest cc with no damage lol. We should definitely remove some cc so hammer does no damage or cc----- gw2 community mentality in a nutshell.

> Then said community complain that pvp in the game sucks and is bleeding players to a point match making doesn't even function properly lol.

> Well played...well played, on to the next vid lol

 

that's 2 skills too many. NERF IT!

they also need to nerf Mending, cleansing 3 condi, healing for 6k on 16 secs (traited) CD.

[bigo.9037]

Don't play this kitten anymore cus it's not even close to being balanced. Necro noob mains can misplay like crazy but still use fear making it hard to hold node, meanwhile even tho they play terrible they survive for 100000 years.

 

Why should necro be able to live for so long? Most other classes still die in 10-15s~ if they play bad, but necro takes at least 40 seconds. And couple that with their stupid res skills, downedstate dmg... It's just stupid.

 

This game is not even close to competitive anymore (well it never was, but it's at least x2 as bad now) and if you honestly think you're good at this game cus you get plat 1 or 2 with ele, rev, FB, DH or core necro... Well, you're not.

 

 

Oh and don't get me started on DH it's actually more infuriating than necro because how god damned EASY it is to stay alive. Their defense rotation is mind boggling easy.

 

I'm not talking about ppl on same skill level here, I'm talking about literal NEWBIES with less 500 games being able to stay alive and be a NUISANCE to me in spvp for WAYYYYY longer than they should be able to for their skill level. They get outplay massively, i dodge all their dmg but playing defensively is so ******* easy it made me quit the game.

[Kuma.1503]

Still technically on topic, but Scourge seems quite balanced at the moment. It's nowhere near as strong as it was before the shade nerf, but it's capable of being played. Core Necro could use some tweaking, but I would like to see it done in a similar way that Soulbeast was nerfed. If possible, in a way that brings core in line while having minimal impact on Scourge's viability.

 

CMC mentioned in an interview that Well of Blood will be recieving a revive nerf in an upcoming patch. They forgot to hit it when targeting revive traits. it will be getting its revive pulse lowered from 4% to 1%.

 

This nerf will hit heal scourge, but you don't generally see heal scourge being played in SPvP. Condi scourge, meanwhile, won't feel this nerf very much since it can run Soul Reaping and Curses.

 

[ollbirtan.2915]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> Okay I'll bite.

>

> The optimal play here is to leave mid and play sides - they simply have the better teamfighting comp.

>

> Second their comp is SLOW with near to no forward ports or leaps, meaning you have the time to reach a point and decap it before they catch up.

>

> Just looking at their comp you see this match is going to be a slow burn. From the getgo we let them have mid. Since they placed one necro on their close, they also need 1 player to guard mid. This allows for 3 of them to fully push your close. What do you do?

>

> Assuming you lost first mid and got 3-capped, you start by 5v3 your close. Forget the rest. If you don't win this the enemy comp is not the issue. Say you win eventually. They now have 1 guy mid and 1 guy at far left. 1 of you stay behind and the other 4 push mid for a quick kill.

>

> Once that is done, all you have to do is focus all your might on mid. No use going far AT ALL at this point. They will funnel into a 4v5 mid, or try to sneak past to close. If they try, send ONE sustainy player there to keep it in your favor while the rest 4v3 at mid still. If the guy you sent close fails and the point gets neutral, you can even send 3 more players there for a quick kill while one tries to hold mid as they funnel back into the map.

>

> Once they win at close, all go mid again. Even if you lose mid in the process you will now come back with a 5v3 (since you just killed one and their nec is afk on far).

>

> Again if you can't win a 5v3, then not even rotations are going to help you. Then your teams mechanical skill and/or dmg output is too low to be able to deal with any player on the opposite team.

>

> Rotation wise I love seeing these plays with these comps, because it means they need to split up their support between mid and far, making for easy kills you can sbowball on.

>

> There's always a most effective rotation to any scenario or comp! And here I even took the worst case scenario, where none of your team go far, which would have made things way easier stretching the enemy support even thinner. Yet with the enemy necro always on far, you will have the numbers advantage in every fight. If not the reason will always be bad rotations.

 

Great match strategy explanation. Sadly, it will fall on deaf ears for the likes of OP who create posts like "OMG NERF . "

[Khalisto.5780]

> @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > Oh look! Another Guard /Necro OP thread....

>

> DH and core feel fine, maybe a little under tuned, but SB feels too strong.

 

wrong, dh will be nerfed next patch, cmc (dev) said it has the higher win rate in pvp

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Khalisto.5780" said:

> > @"Drennon.7190" said:

> > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > Oh look! Another Guard /Necro OP thread....

> >

> > DH and core feel fine, maybe a little under tuned, but SB feels too strong.

>

> wrong, dh will be nerfed next patch, cmc (dev) said it has the higher win rate in pvp

 

Did you even listen to what he said ? Just incase you got wrong, which you did, you would have noticed he said win rate is something they use along with [insert pretty long list of other things] . **If** we balanced just on win rate we would probably nerf dragon hunter. There is also the point where he says they don't go off win rate alone and a high win rate isn't actually indicative of something needing a nerf.

 

People also should understand that something can be strong because it's counters are weak.

 

I really wish people would actually listen to what is being said.

 

Posts like this and all the other terrible conjecture is the reason why we don't get given stats or any real quantitative information like this at all.

[Vancho.8750]

I think we are back to the Scourge Healbrand meta but the roles are reversed with core Necro being the tankier one and you can kinda stack both of the builds in one team and see no drawback, before running more then one FB was dumb and more then one scourge was not helping the side node war. Now you can run as many necro and FB as you want since both builds are self sufficient, both are bunker condi with lots of cc.

They should make something counter to that, cause we are falling back to the no variety zone again. There should be more then one dumb strategy to stack on the point with condi FB and core necro and spamming AOE damage while AOE ccing people till they die slowly.

The meta is like before you get hit once and die from damage, now super slow cause you can escape the barrage of conditions and cc.