Making PVE viable again

[Stajan.4581]

I said most bounties can not be soloed and that is true, if you had a read of the whole post I said earlier that hard mode would be something you can select or you can be in normal mode it is up to you. There is nothing fun about taking over a year to achieve something that is in a video game, video games as based right away satisfaction, so taking a year is not satisfaction at all , the time line it took me to get my backpack from the fractals was about right which was a few months. So you will ask how we control a flood of legendaries in the market well that is easy to. You simply limit the number of legendaries that can be made in x number of months buy each player so 4 that is all you can make in a 5 month period.

 

If you watch this video

time stamp 2min 45 seconds, just watch what this guy Guild MM has in the screen shot of his bank and tell me that he could not just flood the market and drive prices down if he wanted to time stamp for screenshot 5min 24sec.

 

Than after you see that realize that this was last year and there are people out there with even more than that

So saying that allowing legendaries to be easier would wreck the market these guys can do it already, if they want to. If the market gets flooded than players like this do nto become as strong as they are in the community and everything comes onto a level playing field.

 

Casual players need something to keep them here and legendaries that take years to complete is not the way

[Seera.5916]

> @"Stajan.4581" said:

> I said most bounties can not be soloed and that is true, if you had a read of the whole post I said earlier that hard mode would be something you can select or you can be in normal mode it is up to you. There is nothing fun about taking over a year to achieve something that is in a video game, video games as based right away satisfaction, so taking a year is not satisfaction at all , the time line it took me to get my backpack from the fractals was about right which was a few months. So you will ask how we control a flood of legendaries in the market well that is easy to. You simply limit the number of legendaries that can be made in x number of months buy each player so 4 that is all you can make in a 5 month period.

>

> If you watch this video

time stamp 2min 45 seconds, just watch what this guy Guild MM has in the screen shot of his bank and tell me that he could not just flood the market and drive prices down if he wanted to time stamp for screenshot 5min 24sec.

>

> Than after you see that realize that this was last year and there are people out there with even more than that

> So saying that allowing legendaries to be easier would wreck the market these guys can do it already, if they want to. If the market gets flooded than players like this do nto become as strong as they are in the community and everything comes onto a level playing field.

>

> Casual players need something to keep them here and legendaries that take years to complete is not the way

 

I use legendaries as a long term goal. I need long term goals in MMO's to work towards.

 

Your suggestion gets added, then I would likely move onto other games as you've removed the long term goals in the game.

 

Also just because that player and others like him can wreck the market doesn't mean that ignoring the fact that your idea would wreck the market is a smart idea.

[Linken.6345]

You mean unlike now when with enough money you can make all of them tomorrow?

[Tukaram.8256]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> I play PvE almost exclusively. It is far from non-viable. Your entire premise is flawed.

 

Yes. This.

I am a casual player and love PvM (PvE for you youngsters). There is nothing that really needs fixing about PvE. B)

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Stajan.4581" said:

> I said most bounties can not be soloed and that is true, if you had a read of the whole post I said earlier that hard mode would be something you can select or you can be in normal mode it is up to you.

The open world design of GW2 would not be able to accommodate this unlike the instanced design of GW1.

>

> Casual players need something to keep them here and legendaries that take years to complete is not the way

I completely disagree. I am a very casual player and I have plenty to keep me occupied. Please do not assume that you know what casual players need.

 

[Dante.1763]

> @"Stajan.4581" said:

> I said most bounties can not be soloed and that is true, if you had a read of the whole post I said earlier that hard mode would be something you can select or you can be in normal mode it is up to you. There is nothing fun about taking over a year to achieve something that is in a video game, video games as based right away satisfaction, so taking a year is not satisfaction at all , the time line it took me to get my backpack from the fractals was about right which was a few months. So you will ask how we control a flood of legendaries in the market well that is easy to. You simply limit the number of legendaries that can be made in x number of months buy each player so 4 that is all you can make in a 5 month period.

>

That limitation is gross. i made 5 in a two month period because i wanted them bad enough, and yes there is something fun about taking over a year to achieve something. it took me 16 to complete the pokedex and i was hyped, ecstatic even. Players long term goals differ and theres nothing wrong with that, but as a player whos been here more or less since the beginning, if they had continued down the path of making the game ever harder i wouldnt still be here, ive hit my skill cap.

[Stajan.4581]

There is something to be said about finishing a big achievement I understand this because I went through that with GW1 when I went for GWAMM. I had 21 maps to vanquish on hard mode and completed them all in 3 days. Just to I could make sure I was getting the transfer time over to GW2. I have been playing their games since stress testing of GW1 and I understand the whole idea behind this but it takes to long it takes to many resources and it takes to much gold. Gold does not drop in the game it is not the easiest thing in the world to get no matter what anyone says. If it costs 1500g to make a legendary and you make 3 gold a day that is going to take you 500 days just to have enough to make it that is over 2 years. People say you can make 3 gold an hour well that is false because you can not. By the time you complete Fractals, farming and wold boss runs and then you sell everything you are not making 3 gold an hour not even close. People say this because they do not take into consideration the time it takes to go and finish or farm what you are looking for they only look at the selling time. So if you make 3 gold in that hour it took you about 6 hours to collect all those mats and sell them, or run fractals and world bosses. Granted some things give good gold return Fractals are one of these but you can only get the rewards once a day. So once again you are down to doing world bosses where MF has no effect on bags, running champs where MF has no effect, and if you are in a zerg and kill a champ your odds of getting an exotic bag is horrible. On top of that there is nothing that says you will get an exotic from that bag.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You are definitely confused about Champion Bags.

Regardless, if you want to maximize your Champion Bag loot, open it on a mid-level character.

Also, it's very easy to make 3+ Gold right now. Daily gives 2 Gold, Strike Mission 1+ Gold. That takes less than 1 hour.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> You are definitely confused about Champion Bags.

> Regardless, if you want to maximize your Champion Bag loot, open it on a mid-level character.

> Also, it's very easy to make 3+ Gold right now. Daily gives 2 Gold, Strike Mission 1+ Gold. That takes less than 1 hour.

 

Can make even more if you do T4s every day too, gold varies of course but ive gotten 12g in an hour from that.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

Added to that, do a daily “Ley Line Anomaly” event and get a Mystic Coin and 50 silver. The one in Timberline Falls, 20 minutes after reset, is packed with people. You’ll get 30 Mystic Coins and 15 gold a month plus some rares doing that each day as part of your routine.

[kharmin.7683]

Maybe ANet's marketing data analysis has determined that they are reaching the target audience and that increasing the difficulty would lose more players than it gained? Maybe they're still snake-bitten from HoT (pre-nerf) and how the numbers dropped?

 

Maybe there are other games on the market with a steep learning curve and/or more difficult content than GW2? Maybe the majority of players don't want the level of difficulty raised to where some posters in the forums want it?

 

It is selfish and insensitive to continue to talk down to the casual crowd. It doesn't help arguments when emotions are involved.

[Hashberry.4510]

Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

[Raknar.4735]

> @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

 

Pretty good idea. Dark Souls players have been doing that for quite some time. They make their own rules like only fists, no hit runs, speedruns, lvl 1 runs and more.

GW2 players could do the same.

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

>

> Pretty good idea. Dark Souls players have been doing that for quite some time. They make their own rules like only fists, no hit runs, speedruns, lvl 1 runs and more.

> GW2 players could do the same.

 

Delete the character when you die without removing anything from it.

[Raknar.4735]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > > @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > > Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

> >

> > Pretty good idea. Dark Souls players have been doing that for quite some time. They make their own rules like only fists, no hit runs, speedruns, lvl 1 runs and more.

> > GW2 players could do the same.

>

> Delete the character when you die without removing anything from it.

 

That could be another possibility, similiar to the iron man challenge in WoW.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

>

> Pretty good idea. Dark Souls players have been doing that for quite some time. They make their own rules like only fists, no hit runs, speedruns, lvl 1 runs and more.

> GW2 players could do the same.

 

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

 

> Delete the character when you die without removing anything from it.

 

Yea but its far more fun to force those filthy casuals to "get gud" and ruin their enjoyment of the game.

[Aridon.8362]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > > @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > > Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

> >

> > Pretty good idea. Dark Souls players have been doing that for quite some time. They make their own rules like only fists, no hit runs, speedruns, lvl 1 runs and more.

> > GW2 players could do the same.

>

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

>

> > Delete the character when you die without removing anything from it.

>

> Yea but its far more fun to force those filthy casuals to "get gud" and ruin their enjoyment of the game.

 

I bet you if they do it you'll still keep playing especially if you're a long time player. Unless you want to play wow or ESO. ESO is also really easy mode and WoW is also really easy mode.

 

I feel like you like others are undermining the ability of human nature to simply adapt to situations. And if people leave, new ones come.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If it doesn't matter if players leave and/or players come, there's nothing stopping players finding a game that already suits their preferences.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > > > @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > > > Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

> > >

> > > Pretty good idea. Dark Souls players have been doing that for quite some time. They make their own rules like only fists, no hit runs, speedruns, lvl 1 runs and more.

> > > GW2 players could do the same.

> >

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> >

> > > Delete the character when you die without removing anything from it.

> >

> > Yea but its far more fun to force those filthy casuals to "get gud" and ruin their enjoyment of the game.

>

> I bet you if they do it you'll still keep playing especially if you're a long time player. Unless you want to play wow or ESO. ESO is also really easy mode and WoW is also really easy mode.

>

> I feel like you like others are undermining the ability of human nature to simply adapt to situations. And if people leave, new ones come.

 

No, i wouldnt. Im not that invested anymore thanks to anets past mistakes, im glad they are moving in a direction i think is good for the game(a heavy focus on casual players, and story.) but they are treading on ice thats non to thick. Im playing this game for the lore, story, and the PVE(AS IS). Not the hard content that they shoe horned into the game thanks to a vocal minority that drowned out the majority of players who silently play the game, happy and content with the way it is.

 

And no im not undermining anything. its not a matter of adapting to the difficulty. Every player has a skill cap, for the majority of this games playerbase that cap isnt that high. When a good player does 10x more damage than an average player that should tell you something. Making the game harder wouldnt suddenly make them do more damage.

 

If you dont think it matters if people stay or leave, then leave and find a game thats suits your preference instead of trying to morph this game into something you want and ruining what alot of people enjoy about this one over the others.anet thought that players wanted more challenging content once upon a time(HOT) and the backlash was so bad that anet had to nerf everything before the expansion was even released, amd has continued with that trend with the release of POF, and all living story episodes in between, even the most recent ones.

 

Im here this far after launch, because the content is still engaging. Its not to hard, its not to easy(for me) and i can still find a challenge in even Veteran mobs in certain areas.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Stajan.4581" said:

> I said most bounties can not be soloed and that is true...

 

That is not actually true. I personally did solos on more than 75% of the PoF bounties, including legendaries using my mirage.

 

We don't need open world "hard mode". It's there if you want it. However, what I find people tend to do is write things off as impossible, then ask for things like "hard mode" which are "hard", but designed to be done solo as opposed to "easy", but designed for a larger group.

 

[Aridon.8362]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Aridon.8362" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > > > > @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > > > > Nothing is stopping people from making their own difficulty. Take off your armor, self limit your rotation. Whats holding you back?

> > > >

> > > > Pretty good idea. Dark Souls players have been doing that for quite some time. They make their own rules like only fists, no hit runs, speedruns, lvl 1 runs and more.

> > > > GW2 players could do the same.

> > >

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > >

> > > > Delete the character when you die without removing anything from it.

> > >

> > > Yea but its far more fun to force those filthy casuals to "get gud" and ruin their enjoyment of the game.

> >

> > I bet you if they do it you'll still keep playing especially if you're a long time player. Unless you want to play wow or ESO. ESO is also really easy mode and WoW is also really easy mode.

> >

> > I feel like you like others are undermining the ability of human nature to simply adapt to situations. And if people leave, new ones come.

>

> No, i wouldnt. Im not that invested anymore thanks to anets past mistakes, im glad they are moving in a direction i think is good for the game(a heavy focus on casual players, and story.) but they are treading on ice thats non to thick. Im playing this game for the lore, story, and the PVE(AS IS). Not the hard content that they shoe horned into the game thanks to a vocal minority that drowned out the majority of players who silently play the game, happy and content with the way it is.

>

> And no im not undermining anything. its not a matter of adapting to the difficulty. Every player has a skill cap, for the majority of this games playerbase that cap isnt that high. When a good player does 10x more damage than an average player that should tell you something. Making the game harder wouldnt suddenly make them do more damage.

>

> If you dont think it matters if people stay or leave, then leave and find a game thats suits your preference instead of trying to morph this game into something you want and ruining what alot of people enjoy about this one over the others.anet thought that players wanted more challenging content once upon a time(HOT) and the backlash was so bad that anet had to nerf everything before the expansion was even released, amd has continued with that trend with the release of POF, and all living story episodes in between, even the most recent ones.

>

>

 

Why should I leave for not caring if people stay playing the game?

 

If anything, nobody has actually helped me at all to get where I am in the game as it stands (apart from my guild who does training runs). At a personal level there are only 2 people on my friends list and about 100 in my block list.

 

And across my 7 years of playing it wasn't until last February that I realized how gold millionaires in game make thousands of gold without having to farm for it. This was a technique kept secret by the WvW guild leaders I've been in.

 

[Stajan.4581]

If anyone says to "get gud" than they themselves are part of the problem, the one person that said that player base has a top end limit to their skill level is 100% correct and that is based on what the player can physically do and see. I am a clicker have been since GW1 because that is the way it was played, I can not button push and nor do I try. I do not run META in anything I do and there for I can not do raids because people and groups what META, well META is a joke and as long as the content can be completed than the build is viable.

 

Now I never said to make PVE harder I said to give the option to make it harder like they did in GW1

 

On the gold 3 gold was an example yes I know you can make more than 3 gold an hour and there are several ways to do that but lets say you make 10 gold from doing fractals and that is what you run every day because the rest of the content makes you want to find the heavies frying pan you have and smash yourself in the face till you pass out. SO you make 10 gold from fractals that is 150 day that you would have to do before you have the gold to get the material you need to make your legendary. 5 month of fractals not spending one gold on anything at all every day. But now that you have the gold to get the stuff you have to go into WVW or PVP to get the clovers because after 5 month of logins you have 25 clover only and you need 77.

 

So lets do a little math here sale we: 250 mystic coins 353g 67s 50c

Clovers 77 needed

Gift of Condensed Magic x2 needed that is

Powerful blood 79g 28s

Potent Blood 14g 10s

Thick Blood 6g 98s

Vial of Blood 8g 77s

That is 109 13 x 2

for 218g 26s Just for blood alone. Now take that away form the 1500

That is 1281.74 and 250 mystic coins is 374.92

that leaves 906.82g and it is my guess just a guess that 906.82 will not be enough to get you the rest of the mats that you need to complete the build.

 

On top of this you have to maybe go out and collect 250 of map currancies that you can only get so many of a day Like blood Rubies

complete a quest like to get whatever it is you may need to make the precurser just so you can now make that legendary that you have bee working on and then you get the satisfaction that you have it, but lets see you have lost a crap load of gold after doing a crap load of work and now it is not worth it.

 

The simple fact that if they do just these small thing of 1 making a hard mode where drops are increased, 2 having MF work the way it was intended to 3 Getting other ways to gain clovers and coins other than the limited ways they have 4 Hell lets even put legendaries in the drop rotation of enemies. 5. put legendary armour in the fractals I like this one and will steel it.

 

But everyone will say do raid as stated above I do not do raids as raid require you to run META most of the time because raids I think are for people who think they are elites and that is just a pure toxic thing.

 

Strikes are not any fun and they do not have any good drops so they are not worth doing.

 

These are all things that need to be changed. In GW1 you took on a PVE boss ( champion now) you had a higher chance at a good drop, if you soloed that ( champ) the chance of the good drop was higher. This should be the case now, with the number of champs there are out there, there is no way this can not be done to make drops better which in turn makes PVE viable again because it draws players out to try for the drops.

 

IF a hard mode option ever made these champs would not be solo able at all and you would require some assistance but base drops would be increased for mats on the hard mode making the collection of mats like the blood above easier instead of hoping to collect enough gold form whatever it is you do for gold and buying it off the TP.

 

 

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Stajan.4581" said:

> Now I never said to make PVE harder I said to give the option to make it harder like they did in GW1

GW1 was built on instanced content. You left town, with our without your group, and you were in your own "bubble" of content. GW2 open world is not designed in this way, so there really isn't a way to make it harder which would not affect every player on the map.

 

 

 

[keenedge.9675]

Solo PvE in the core is great for casual and new players. Solo PvE in HoT and PoF related maps is often punishing and meant to give a higher challenge level for individuals or groups. In my opinion, HoT is harder and PoF dialed it back just a little bit.

This game is but one of many in the genre, it's a beautiful world with reasonable content for a broad range of players.

 

As mentioned above there are many other games that can give exactly the challenge modes you are asking for along the lines of punishing hack and slash with increasing drops based on difficulty. That wasn't a design goal for this game. It's meant to be primarily exploration and questing, not a gear grind. When I want rapid hack and slash with gear grind I go play those to get my fix.

 

>

 

 

Legendaries are NOT needed to be an effective top-notch player. It is a prestige item.

 

If you have a good job IRL you can splash dollars and buy one from TP, but that's not very sporting.

 

Precursors are still fairly cheap due to the flood that happened because of an enhanced Exotic drop rate from Unidentified Gear bags when PoF was released. Because of that, legendaries flooded the market and the prices dipped. Before that, precursors and legendaries were RARELY in any give-a-ways either.

 

Generation 2 Legendaries were introduced to bring back the feel of owning a prestige item. They require dedication and commitment to completing many quests and game modes.

 

 

[Aridon.8362]

> @"Stajan.4581" said:

> If anyone says to "get gud" than they themselves are part of the problem, the one person that said that player base has a top end limit to their skill level is 100% correct and that is based on what the player can physically do and see. I am a clicker have been since GW1 because that is the way it was played, I can not button push and nor do I try. I do not run META in anything I do and there for I can not do raids because people and groups what META, well META is a joke and as long as the content can be completed than the build is viable.

>

> Now I never said to make PVE harder I said to give the option to make it harder like they did in GW1

>

> On the gold 3 gold was an example yes I know you can make more than 3 gold an hour and there are several ways to do that but lets say you make 10 gold from doing fractals and that is what you run every day because the rest of the content makes you want to find the heavies frying pan you have and smash yourself in the face till you pass out. SO you make 10 gold from fractals that is 150 day that you would have to do before you have the gold to get the material you need to make your legendary. 5 month of fractals not spending one gold on anything at all every day. But now that you have the gold to get the stuff you have to go into WVW or PVP to get the clovers because after 5 month of logins you have 25 clover only and you need 77.

>

> So lets do a little math here sale we: 250 mystic coins 353g 67s 50c

> Clovers 77 needed

> Gift of Condensed Magic x2 needed that is

> Powerful blood 79g 28s

> Potent Blood 14g 10s

> Thick Blood 6g 98s

> Vial of Blood 8g 77s

> That is 109 13 x 2

> for 218g 26s Just for blood alone. Now take that away form the 1500

> That is 1281.74 and 250 mystic coins is 374.92

> that leaves 906.82g and it is my guess just a guess that 906.82 will not be enough to get you the rest of the mats that you need to complete the build.

>

> On top of this you have to maybe go out and collect 250 of map currancies that you can only get so many of a day Like blood Rubies

> complete a quest like to get whatever it is you may need to make the precurser just so you can now make that legendary that you have bee working on and then you get the satisfaction that you have it, but lets see you have lost a kitten load of gold after doing a kitten load of work and now it is not worth it.

>

> The simple fact that if they do just these small thing of 1 making a hard mode where drops are increased, 2 having MF work the way it was intended to 3 Getting other ways to gain clovers and coins other than the limited ways they have 4 Hell lets even put legendaries in the drop rotation of enemies. 5. put legendary armour in the fractals I like this one and will steel it.

>

> But everyone will say do raid as stated above I do not do raids as raid require you to run META most of the time because raids I think are for people who think they are elites and that is just a pure toxic thing.

>

> Strikes are not any fun and they do not have any good drops so they are not worth doing.

>

> These are all things that need to be changed. In GW1 you took on a PVE boss ( champion now) you had a higher chance at a good drop, if you soloed that ( champ) the chance of the good drop was higher. This should be the case now, with the number of champs there are out there, there is no way this can not be done to make drops better which in turn makes PVE viable again because it draws players out to try for the drops.

>

> IF a hard mode option ever made these champs would not be solo able at all and you would require some assistance but base drops would be increased for mats on the hard mode making the collection of mats like the blood above easier instead of hoping to collect enough gold form whatever it is you do for gold and buying it off the TP.

>

>

 

There are ways to get mats without having to do content. Also I've never seen anyone get 10g from a fractal, not even a daily t4. Maybe the T4 dailies put together if you infuse and salvage your ascendeds and get lucky.

 

Raids are extremely rewarding however if you know how to use what's dropped in them...and they are have the only bosses in game that offer the best rewards if we're talking about instanced stuff.

 

You're also robbing yourself of a fluid way to play the game by clicking your skills. Try using keybinds closer to your 12345 skills. Something I run is my class skills on q e r f, where f is my elite. Leave the movement as is by default. You can bind your interact to left control that way your entire left hand is in charge of doing everything for your character. I put my heal on left shift but that's just by preference. Unlike many I actually get away with double tap to dodge.

 

Last thing I'll say is nobody wants to go back to champion bag farming. ANET doesn't want that for us either. It was mundane, tiring and too time consuming, some things are better left dead and burried where they belong. While META trains are good ways to farm mats they're not the most efficient. To the unknowing, and people who refuse to understand the game and how it works, you're going to have a frustrating time farming for stuff. If you'd change your mindset to a positive one the game rewards you greatly for doing so.