Taril.8619 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 I know, the reason they aren't available is because they don't use the Energy system that Rev is designed around... But still. C'mon! If I want to use a sucky Racial skill, I should have that option! I wanna channel the power of a Demon Lord then a Dragon then become a Man-Bear-Pig! Rawr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 oh yea please. I only made a charr to see the racial skills. Then rev doesnt have them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Honestly, Racial skills should just be removed. All flavour and no actual use. Even the "useful" ones have a ridiculously long cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > Honestly, Racial skills should just be removed. > > All flavour and no actual use. > Even the "useful" ones have a ridiculously long cooldown. Alternatively, go the other way and make them a bit more usable. Not to the point of being "Good" or "Great" options, given that they're intentionally not that so Race doesn't play a part in Meta builds, but to a point where they're somewhat usable. For example, lowering the CD of many of them (Especially Elites) to a more reasonable level. They don't need to be too good in order to be somewhat useable given the state of certain classes utilities, for example; - Thief has pretty trash utilities for PvE, pretty much everything is just about being annoying af in PvP/WvW thus they could use some Racial skills occasionally - Core Mesmer has mediocre PvE utilities (Many being fight specific niche skills) and bad PvE Elites (Time Warp being okay if you don't have a perma-Quickness character such as a Boon Chrono) - Power Necro relies on Flesh Golem only, which can be not so great in certain circumstances (Places like WvW or some bosses that do a lot of AoE damage) - Renegade has the awkwardness that is their Energy system that promotes using only the most effective energy spenders, meaning it's often you only use a handful of skills while others sit untouched because they're not worth the Energy cost (For example, the Elite on Mallyx as a Power build) - Power Soulbeast has few good options, due to many of Ranger's skills being Condition focused, Stances suck, Commands suck when merged and Signets are mediocre when merged... - Engineer gets Toolbelt skills for Racial Utilities which increases their worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > Honestly, Racial skills should just be removed. > > All flavour and no actual use. > Even the "useful" ones have a ridiculously long cooldown. they have "no use" so why remove them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antycypator.9874 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Racial skills would be more useful than some rev's skills, like Prayer To Kormir (human), because rev has very poor access to condi cleanse in pve. Resistance is just useless if you don't have a build for it. For sure I would replace the Facet of Strenght on my Herald into e.g. technobaubble (asura). You can't have enough CCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Racial skills: -sPvP: they are locked any way. - WvW: Did ANet even care to reduce their power in the gamemode? If not they are probably the next exploit people will use and they will be nerfed below the ground. - PvE: The skills are mostly situational there. All in all ANet don't want "races" to matter, that's why racial skills are nice flavor but ultimately weak in performance. Making them accessible to the revenant is probably difficult for different reasons, and I think energy isn't the main reason. Ventari for example have it's whole skillset dependant on it's healskill, it's unimaginable to replace it by a racial heal, you'd just break the skillset. From my point of view, the better solution would be to remove the racial skills from the regular skill list and create new access to revamped skills via the Mastery system. For example, unlocking the racial tree grant a racial perk in form of an extra skill slot (like the mounts). You only have access to this skillslot in specific area (Most likely open PvE, land). You can only use a racial skill if you have the proper race. The mastery track grant the skill (a transformation) when it's unlocked. Each mastery stage unlock a skill of the skillkit and allow for a longer transformation uptime. - **Human:** _Anointed:_ You reach to the gods transforming into a blessed _Anointed_ allowing you to channel the strength of the gods. 1st skill: _Grenth touch_. 2nd skill: _Melandru's leaves_ (cleanse conditions in the area). 3rd skill: _Lyssa's mischief_ (gain random boon and inflict random condition to your foe). 4th skill: _Kormir's insight_ (For x seconds you cannot be blinded and lose a condition every second). 5th skill: _Balthazar's hound_ (summon a hound to fight by your side). - **Charr:** _Gunner:_ Let go of everything and wield a chaarzooka. 1st skill: _Fire rocket_. 2nd skill: _Hidden trick_ (shoot at the target while evading backward). 3rd skill: _shrapnel_. 4th skill: _Artillery barrage_ . 5th skill: _Warband support_ (summon a member of your warband to fight by your side). - **Norn:** _Shaman:_ Transform into one of the animal totem. Each stage unlock one of the transformation and a skill while transformed (from bear to raven, wolf and leopard) - **Asura:** _Mechapilot:_ activate your powersuit. 1st skill: _Punch_. 2nd skill: _Pain inverter_. 3rd skill: _Technobabble_. 4th skill: _radiation field_. 5th skill: _Golem 7_ (summon a golem 7th serie to support you) - **Sylvari:** _Druid spirit:_ Become one with nature. 1st skill: _Vine slash_. 2nd skill: _Bullet seed_ (spit seeds to your target dealing damage and bleeding it). 3rd skill: _grasping vine_. 4th skill: _Synthesis_ (gain regeneration and barrier). 5th skill: _Sylvan hound_ (summon a sylvan hound to fight by your side). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lodjur.1284 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Racial skills would def be a buff to rev in both pve and WvW, there's a few that are "mediocre" but given that they would cost no energy and only remove the worst skill on your 2 utility bars it would see some use. Asura would get AoE confusion or a very long daze Humans get 15 sec of pulsing chill (torment) +poison that stacks with Demon ultimate. Charr gets a free dodge roll. Sylvari gets a super annoying immob and a 3 sec invuln (with a dps increase in PvE) Imo racials shouldn't be useful so I am against it, even if having the ability to swap out some utility skills would be really nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > Honestly, Racial skills should just be removed. > > > > All flavour and no actual use. > > Even the "useful" ones have a ridiculously long cooldown. > > Alternatively, go the other way and make them a bit more usable. > > Not to the point of being "Good" or "Great" options, given that they're intentionally not that so Race doesn't play a part in Meta builds, but to a point where they're somewhat usable. > > For example, lowering the CD of many of them (Especially Elites) to a more reasonable level. > > They don't need to be too good in order to be somewhat useable given the state of certain classes utilities, for example; > > - Thief has pretty trash utilities for PvE, pretty much everything is just about being annoying af in PvP/WvW thus they could use some Racial skills occasionally > - Core Mesmer has mediocre PvE utilities (Many being fight specific niche skills) and bad PvE Elites (Time Warp being okay if you don't have a perma-Quickness character such as a Boon Chrono) > - Power Necro relies on Flesh Golem only, which can be not so great in certain circumstances (Places like WvW or some bosses that do a lot of AoE damage) > - Renegade has the awkwardness that is their Energy system that promotes using only the most effective energy spenders, meaning it's often you only use a handful of skills while others sit untouched because they're not worth the Energy cost (For example, the Elite on Mallyx as a Power build) > - Power Soulbeast has few good options, due to many of Ranger's skills being Condition focused, Stances suck, Commands suck when merged and Signets are mediocre when merged... > - Engineer gets Toolbelt skills for Racial Utilities which increases their worth Alternatively remove all usefulness and make them fully flavorful. Permanent golem for Asura, permanent morph for Norns, permanent warband members for Charrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > Honestly, Racial skills should just be removed. > > > > > > All flavour and no actual use. > > > Even the "useful" ones have a ridiculously long cooldown. > > > > Alternatively, go the other way and make them a bit more usable. > > > > Not to the point of being "Good" or "Great" options, given that they're intentionally not that so Race doesn't play a part in Meta builds, but to a point where they're somewhat usable. > > > > For example, lowering the CD of many of them (Especially Elites) to a more reasonable level. > > > > They don't need to be too good in order to be somewhat useable given the state of certain classes utilities, for example; > > > > - Thief has pretty trash utilities for PvE, pretty much everything is just about being annoying af in PvP/WvW thus they could use some Racial skills occasionally > > - Core Mesmer has mediocre PvE utilities (Many being fight specific niche skills) and bad PvE Elites (Time Warp being okay if you don't have a perma-Quickness character such as a Boon Chrono) > > - Power Necro relies on Flesh Golem only, which can be not so great in certain circumstances (Places like WvW or some bosses that do a lot of AoE damage) > > - Renegade has the awkwardness that is their Energy system that promotes using only the most effective energy spenders, meaning it's often you only use a handful of skills while others sit untouched because they're not worth the Energy cost (For example, the Elite on Mallyx as a Power build) > > - Power Soulbeast has few good options, due to many of Ranger's skills being Condition focused, Stances suck, Commands suck when merged and Signets are mediocre when merged... > > - Engineer gets Toolbelt skills for Racial Utilities which increases their worth > > Alternatively remove all usefulness and make them fully flavorful. > Permanent golem for Asura, permanent morph for Norns, permanent warband members for Charrs. Hmm... Now I'm imagining what if each race had unique mount skins they could use in lieu of a number of available mounts: Hound of Balthazar for Human. Charr Tank for Charr. Animal Forms for Norn. Power Suit for Asura. Druid Spirit for Sylvari. That could be pretty cool xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > Honestly, Racial skills should just be removed. > > > > > > > > All flavour and no actual use. > > > > Even the "useful" ones have a ridiculously long cooldown. > > > > > > Alternatively, go the other way and make them a bit more usable. > > > > > > Not to the point of being "Good" or "Great" options, given that they're intentionally not that so Race doesn't play a part in Meta builds, but to a point where they're somewhat usable. > > > > > > For example, lowering the CD of many of them (Especially Elites) to a more reasonable level. > > > > > > They don't need to be too good in order to be somewhat useable given the state of certain classes utilities, for example; > > > > > > - Thief has pretty trash utilities for PvE, pretty much everything is just about being annoying af in PvP/WvW thus they could use some Racial skills occasionally > > > - Core Mesmer has mediocre PvE utilities (Many being fight specific niche skills) and bad PvE Elites (Time Warp being okay if you don't have a perma-Quickness character such as a Boon Chrono) > > > - Power Necro relies on Flesh Golem only, which can be not so great in certain circumstances (Places like WvW or some bosses that do a lot of AoE damage) > > > - Renegade has the awkwardness that is their Energy system that promotes using only the most effective energy spenders, meaning it's often you only use a handful of skills while others sit untouched because they're not worth the Energy cost (For example, the Elite on Mallyx as a Power build) > > > - Power Soulbeast has few good options, due to many of Ranger's skills being Condition focused, Stances suck, Commands suck when merged and Signets are mediocre when merged... > > > - Engineer gets Toolbelt skills for Racial Utilities which increases their worth > > > > Alternatively remove all usefulness and make them fully flavorful. > > Permanent golem for Asura, permanent morph for Norns, permanent warband members for Charrs. > > Hmm... Now I'm imagining what if each race had unique mount skins they could use in lieu of a number of available mounts: > > Hound of Balthazar for Human. > Charr Tank for Charr. > Animal Forms for Norn. > Power Suit for Asura. > Druid Spirit for Sylvari. > > That could be pretty cool xD They could make an entire set of mounts for Sylvari, available to everyone ! The beetle could be a giant ball made of carved bark with vines as antennas. The jackal could be a sylvan hound, leaving leaves behind when teleporting. The griffon having leaves instead of feathers. (I hope they make its head more eagle than owl) The skyscale having giant leaves as wings and branches as horns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Racial skills should be modified into F6+ skills imo. Give them big cooldowns and only allow them in open world PvE and dungeons so they don't cause any competitive balance issues or racial preferences in raids and fractals. This way they would just give races that little bit more of a unique feeling. Each race should get 3 normal F skills 6-8 with about 2-5 mins cooldown and 1 Elite variant with a 10-20 min cooldown F9. Some skills will be lost doing this and some added, many changed and all elites defined by your characters personal choices during the creation screen. I wrote out a general idea below for each race, mostly off the top of my head so it's not fine tuned.. just to serve as an example of what im thinking of. Asura: Pain inverter, Gain 5 seconds of retaliation. (Loses confusion) Radiationfield, Create a small AoE field that poisons and weakens foes for 2 second per tick. (conditions are weaker and 15 second field duration becomes 6 seconds) Technobable, Daze your target for 2 seconds (loses 1 second daze) Elite: Golem defined by your chosen school. College of Dynamics: Summon 7-Series Golem for 30 seconds. (loses 10 seconds duration) College of Statics: Summon D-Series Golem for 30 seconds. (loses 10 seconds duration) College of Synergetics: Summon Power Suit for 30 seconds. (loses 30 seconds of duration) Charr: Battle Roar, Fears foes for 1 second and weakens them for 4 seconds. (reworked entirely) Invigorating Roar, Removes weakness and vulnerability from allies and grants 6 seconds of vigor. (loses 4 seconds of vigor duration) Booby Trap, Block the next incoming attack and explode knocking you and enemies away from each other and bleeding you both. (reworked entirely) Elite: defined by your chosen Legion. Blood Legion: Artillery Barrage Iron Legion: Charrzooka Turret, Summon a Charrzooka turret for 30 seconds that has a chance to launch foes (reworked entirely) Ash Legion: Shadowy Deception, Create a shadow duplicate of yourself for 5 seconds which taunts nearby foes and gain 4 seconds of stealth (New Skill) Norn: Call on Minotaur, Empower yourself and allies with Minotaurs strength, gain 4 stacks of might for 6 seconds (New Skill) Call on Hare, Empower yourself and allies with Hare's speed, gain 6 seconds of swiftness (New Skill) Call on Otter, Empower yourself and allies with Otters boon, gain 6 seconds of regeneration (New Skill) Elite: defined by your chosen spirit of the wild. Bear: Become the Bear for 30 seconds. Raven: Become the Raven for 30 seconds. Snow Leopard: Become the Snow Leopard for 30 seconds. Wolf: Become the Wolf for 30 seconds. Sylvari: Healing Seed, Create a small healing AoE at target location for 10 seconds (loses regen, weaker healing and shorter duration) Throw Vine, Target foe is knocked down for 1 second and crippled for 4 seconds (loses 1 second knockdown and all damage, gains 4 seconds cripple) Mothers Blessing, Give yourself 3 seconds of protection and remove 1 condition (New Skill) Elite: Defind by your chosen Ventari Teaching. Act with wisdom, but act: Summon Druid Spirit for 30 seconds (loses 30 second duration) All things have a right to grow: Summon 5 seed turrets for 30 seconds. Where life goes, so too, should you: Summon Sylvan Hound for 30 seconds (loses 30 second dutation) Human: First Aid, Remove bleeding on self, heal by a small amount per stack of bleeding removed. (New Skill) For Kryta!, Gives 2 stacks of might to allies for 5 seconds and 2 stacks of vulnerability to foes for 5 seconds. (New Skill) Unshakable Devotion, Loyalty to the gods is rewarded, gain 3 seconds of Resistance. (New Skill) Elite: Avatar auras defined by your chosen God. Balthazar: Avatar of Balthazar, Invoke Balthazar to pulse 2 seconds of burning to foes around you for 15 seconds. Kormir: Avatar of Kormir, Invoke Kormir to pulse 6 seconds of vulnerability to foes around you for 15 seconds. Lyssa: Avatar of Lyssa, Invoke Lyssa to pulse 2 seconds of weakness to foes around you for 15 seconds. Dwayna: Avatar of Dwayna, Invoke Dwayna to pulse 2 seconds of regeneration to allies around you for 15 seconds. Grenth: Avatar of Grenth, Invoke Grenth to pulse 1 second of cripple to foes around you for 15 seconds. Melandru: Avatar of Melandru, Invoke Melandru to pulse 3 seconds of poison to foes around you for 15 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > /snip Please no. It would be terrible. Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > /snip > > Please no. It would be terrible. > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > /snip > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > /snip > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. > > How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. > > And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). Because they're not useless now, they're just not as usefull as class skills for balance/mechanical reasons. That doesn't change things such as Asura are more dangerous when piloting Golems or that Norns are at their most powerful when transformed. This is even being touched on in the Icebrood Saga story as well. To have Norn players most powerful transformation be reduced to something as weak as a Mesmer clone would be really degrading to the race.. But at the same time Anet can't exactly make these skills as powerful as they rightfully should be either because of balance issues and diminishing class specific skills. If they however could rework them into something that doesn't require class skill sacrifices and limit them only to areas of the game where they wouldn't cause any racial preference in groups etc (no raids, no fractals etc) then these skills could be done a lot of justice and actually give each race something special and unique while still remaining gimmicky and offering limited use due to very heavy CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > > > > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > > > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. > > > > How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. > > > > And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). > > Because they're not useless now, they're just not as usefull as class skills for balance/mechanical reasons. > That doesn't change things such as Asura are more dangerous when piloting Golems or that Norns are at their most powerful when transformed. > This is even being touched on in the Icebrood Saga story as well. > > To have Norn players most powerful transformation be reduced to something as weak as a Mesmer clone would be really degrading to the race.. > But at the same time Anet can't exactly make these skills as powerful as they rightfully should be either because of balance issues and diminishing class specific skills. > If they however could rework them into something that doesn't require class skill sacrifices and limit them only to areas of the game where they wouldn't cause any racial preference in groups etc (no raids, no fractals etc) then these skills could be done a lot of justice and actually give each race something special and unique while still remaining gimmicky and offering limited use due to very heavy CD. How would it be degrading ? You keep saying that, but never justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > > > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > > > > > > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > > > > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. > > > > > > How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. > > > > > > And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). > > > > Because they're not useless now, they're just not as usefull as class skills for balance/mechanical reasons. > > That doesn't change things such as Asura are more dangerous when piloting Golems or that Norns are at their most powerful when transformed. > > This is even being touched on in the Icebrood Saga story as well. > > > > To have Norn players most powerful transformation be reduced to something as weak as a Mesmer clone would be really degrading to the race.. > > But at the same time Anet can't exactly make these skills as powerful as they rightfully should be either because of balance issues and diminishing class specific skills. > > If they however could rework them into something that doesn't require class skill sacrifices and limit them only to areas of the game where they wouldn't cause any racial preference in groups etc (no raids, no fractals etc) then these skills could be done a lot of justice and actually give each race something special and unique while still remaining gimmicky and offering limited use due to very heavy CD. > > How would it be degrading ? You keep saying that, but never justify it. I did explain it. You would be taking quite literally the most powerful racial aspect of the Norn and making it as patheticly inept as a baby Quaggen.. It would be like going Super Saiyan in DBZ but rather than having your power boosted to massive levels you'd become Raditz instead. Hence degrading.. these forms are supposed to be something that grants the Norn huge power by lore not something akin to a combat Tonic gives you a 99% stat reduction penalty for using them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > > > > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > > > > > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. > > > > > > > > How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. > > > > > > > > And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). > > > > > > Because they're not useless now, they're just not as usefull as class skills for balance/mechanical reasons. > > > That doesn't change things such as Asura are more dangerous when piloting Golems or that Norns are at their most powerful when transformed. > > > This is even being touched on in the Icebrood Saga story as well. > > > > > > To have Norn players most powerful transformation be reduced to something as weak as a Mesmer clone would be really degrading to the race.. > > > But at the same time Anet can't exactly make these skills as powerful as they rightfully should be either because of balance issues and diminishing class specific skills. > > > If they however could rework them into something that doesn't require class skill sacrifices and limit them only to areas of the game where they wouldn't cause any racial preference in groups etc (no raids, no fractals etc) then these skills could be done a lot of justice and actually give each race something special and unique while still remaining gimmicky and offering limited use due to very heavy CD. > > > > How would it be degrading ? You keep saying that, but never justify it. > > I did explain it. > You would be taking quite literally the most powerful racial aspect of the Norn and making it as patheticly inept as a baby Quaggen.. > It would be like going Super Saiyan in DBZ but rather than having your power boosted to massive levels you'd become Raditz instead. > Hence degrading.. these forms are supposed to be something that grants the Norn huge power by lore not something akin to a combat Tonic gives you a 99% stat reduction penalty for using them. > Norn is not a class, so it's not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > > > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > > > > > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > > > > > > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. > > > > > > > > > > How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. > > > > > > > > > > And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). > > > > > > > > Because they're not useless now, they're just not as usefull as class skills for balance/mechanical reasons. > > > > That doesn't change things such as Asura are more dangerous when piloting Golems or that Norns are at their most powerful when transformed. > > > > This is even being touched on in the Icebrood Saga story as well. > > > > > > > > To have Norn players most powerful transformation be reduced to something as weak as a Mesmer clone would be really degrading to the race.. > > > > But at the same time Anet can't exactly make these skills as powerful as they rightfully should be either because of balance issues and diminishing class specific skills. > > > > If they however could rework them into something that doesn't require class skill sacrifices and limit them only to areas of the game where they wouldn't cause any racial preference in groups etc (no raids, no fractals etc) then these skills could be done a lot of justice and actually give each race something special and unique while still remaining gimmicky and offering limited use due to very heavy CD. > > > > > > How would it be degrading ? You keep saying that, but never justify it. > > > > I did explain it. > > You would be taking quite literally the most powerful racial aspect of the Norn and making it as patheticly inept as a baby Quaggen.. > > It would be like going Super Saiyan in DBZ but rather than having your power boosted to massive levels you'd become Raditz instead. > > Hence degrading.. these forms are supposed to be something that grants the Norn huge power by lore not something akin to a combat Tonic gives you a 99% stat reduction penalty for using them. > > > > Norn is not a class, so it's not an issue. Racial skills replacing class skills to use goes against your statement there.. The race may not be a class but their skills do conflict with them. Hence why I'd rather see them converted into limited use bonus F skills that do not effect your class at all and actually make each race feel somewhat special and unique to play, which atm in Gw2 Races do not feel special and unique to play.. In fact if you took away or made racial skills entirely useless as you have expressed favour for above then entire concept of having multiple playable races in Gw2 would be completely redundant.. In that case Anet would have been better of scrapping multiple playable races early in Gw2's development and just forced everyone to be a Human again like in Gw1.. I can imagine how Gw2 players would not be happy had they done that.. and would be furious if they changed the game now just to take away their Sylvari, Charr, Norn and Asuras.. hell I would be too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buran.3796 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > Honestly, Racial skills should just be removed. > > All flavour and no actual use. > Even the "useful" ones have a ridiculously long cooldown. I remember that at the release of the game some classes which lacked stealth were using the norn - snow panther skills to get access and disengage in roaming. I also feel weird that ANet doesn't want discernible features for races (except easthetics) but the game doesn't let you to change the race of your character (which I would do with some even if that means losing the personal history progress). And no, deleting/reseting the character slot isn't the same because character age adds valauable rewards over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulvar.1239 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > > > > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > > > > > > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > > > > > > > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. > > > > > > > > > > > > And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). > > > > > > > > > > Because they're not useless now, they're just not as usefull as class skills for balance/mechanical reasons. > > > > > That doesn't change things such as Asura are more dangerous when piloting Golems or that Norns are at their most powerful when transformed. > > > > > This is even being touched on in the Icebrood Saga story as well. > > > > > > > > > > To have Norn players most powerful transformation be reduced to something as weak as a Mesmer clone would be really degrading to the race.. > > > > > But at the same time Anet can't exactly make these skills as powerful as they rightfully should be either because of balance issues and diminishing class specific skills. > > > > > If they however could rework them into something that doesn't require class skill sacrifices and limit them only to areas of the game where they wouldn't cause any racial preference in groups etc (no raids, no fractals etc) then these skills could be done a lot of justice and actually give each race something special and unique while still remaining gimmicky and offering limited use due to very heavy CD. > > > > > > > > How would it be degrading ? You keep saying that, but never justify it. > > > > > > I did explain it. > > > You would be taking quite literally the most powerful racial aspect of the Norn and making it as patheticly inept as a baby Quaggen.. > > > It would be like going Super Saiyan in DBZ but rather than having your power boosted to massive levels you'd become Raditz instead. > > > Hence degrading.. these forms are supposed to be something that grants the Norn huge power by lore not something akin to a combat Tonic gives you a 99% stat reduction penalty for using them. > > > > > > > Norn is not a class, so it's not an issue. > > Racial skills replacing class skills to use goes against your statement there.. The race may not be a class but their skills do conflict with them. > Hence why I'd rather see them converted into limited use bonus F skills that do not effect your class at all and actually make each race feel somewhat special and unique to play, which atm in Gw2 Races do not feel special and unique to play.. > In fact if you took away or made racial skills entirely useless as you have expressed favour for above then entire concept of having multiple playable races in Gw2 would be completely redundant.. > In that case Anet would have been better of scrapping multiple playable races early in Gw2's development and just forced everyone to be a Human again like in Gw1.. > I can imagine how Gw2 players would not be happy had they done that.. and would be furious if they changed the game now just to take away their Sylvari, Charr, Norn and Asuras.. hell I would be too. Why do you want races to impact gameplay ? Races are not redundant as they let people play fun things. Hulky beast Charrs, small bouncy Asura, colorful glowing Sylvari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > /snip > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please no. It would be terrible. > > > > > > > > > > > Having golems and norn morphs that hit like Mesmer clones but last indefinitely would be far more enjoyable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would make them utterly useless and destroy what little use they currently have in game now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They're not meant to have any use and I hope that never change. > > > > > > > > > So making them last endlessly would make them fun to use outside fight situation at least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd rather have them be on some level useful without forcing class sacrifices. > > > > > > > > A number of them have ties to lore or deep rooted racial/cultural traits Like the Norn's transformations.. making them utterly useless would be severely degrading to the race itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How exactly would that be degrading ? They're all useless, meant to be useless as to never become META. Making them everlasting yet irrelevant wouldn't be criminally insulting to fictional races, and actually stick to the lore better. Golems don't have a few seconds function expectancy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I just thought about it, Charr elite could summon the 3 warband members of the character (creation choice + 2 recruited members during personal story). > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're not useless now, they're just not as usefull as class skills for balance/mechanical reasons. > > > > > > That doesn't change things such as Asura are more dangerous when piloting Golems or that Norns are at their most powerful when transformed. > > > > > > This is even being touched on in the Icebrood Saga story as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > To have Norn players most powerful transformation be reduced to something as weak as a Mesmer clone would be really degrading to the race.. > > > > > > But at the same time Anet can't exactly make these skills as powerful as they rightfully should be either because of balance issues and diminishing class specific skills. > > > > > > If they however could rework them into something that doesn't require class skill sacrifices and limit them only to areas of the game where they wouldn't cause any racial preference in groups etc (no raids, no fractals etc) then these skills could be done a lot of justice and actually give each race something special and unique while still remaining gimmicky and offering limited use due to very heavy CD. > > > > > > > > > > How would it be degrading ? You keep saying that, but never justify it. > > > > > > > > I did explain it. > > > > You would be taking quite literally the most powerful racial aspect of the Norn and making it as patheticly inept as a baby Quaggen.. > > > > It would be like going Super Saiyan in DBZ but rather than having your power boosted to massive levels you'd become Raditz instead. > > > > Hence degrading.. these forms are supposed to be something that grants the Norn huge power by lore not something akin to a combat Tonic gives you a 99% stat reduction penalty for using them. > > > > > > > > > > Norn is not a class, so it's not an issue. > > > > Racial skills replacing class skills to use goes against your statement there.. The race may not be a class but their skills do conflict with them. > > Hence why I'd rather see them converted into limited use bonus F skills that do not effect your class at all and actually make each race feel somewhat special and unique to play, which atm in Gw2 Races do not feel special and unique to play.. > > In fact if you took away or made racial skills entirely useless as you have expressed favour for above then entire concept of having multiple playable races in Gw2 would be completely redundant.. > > In that case Anet would have been better of scrapping multiple playable races early in Gw2's development and just forced everyone to be a Human again like in Gw1.. > > I can imagine how Gw2 players would not be happy had they done that.. and would be furious if they changed the game now just to take away their Sylvari, Charr, Norn and Asuras.. hell I would be too. > > Why do you want races to impact gameplay ? Races are not redundant as they let people play fun things. Hulky beast Charrs, small bouncy Asura, colorful glowing Sylvari. Already told you, to make them feel more unique and special without taking anything away from classes or causing balance issues and racial preference's. This is a very common thing in most MMO's that feature multiple races, there's almost always a mechanical or gameplay element to distinguish each race.. but in Gw2 there isnt. As it is now if I want to play a Norn and use a beast form I have to give up my classes elite skill to do it and actively handicap myself. With racial skills being taken out of utility slots and always available as F skills, we'd never have to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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