berserker - the weakest class of game defining new term

[Lighter.5631]

glass noodle, yes, this is what berserker is in pvp

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

Berserker was actually better before they PVE patched it, but no one believed me because they were too busy looking at GS spin2win.

 

Then ofcourse there was the genius idea of not giving all classes their "tradeoff" at the same time.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> Berserker was actually better before they PVE patched it, but no one believed me because they were too busy looking at GS spin2win.

>

> Then ofcourse there was the genius idea of not giving all classes their "tradeoff" at the same time.

>

 

That and they gave Berserker the steepest tradeoff of all. I'm here waiting for all the other classes to get their stat penalty besides Scrapper.

[Obtena.7952]

Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

 

But why would you use the berserker elite spec if you are not planning to utilise the berserk mode? That's like saying holosmith is also getting double dipped for it's trade off, since it also has 3 "non-functioning minor traits" outside of the holoforge. Even worse, the entire holosmith trait line is based on the holoforge. If you are not using it, then the entire holosmith trait line just consists of non-functioning traits.

[cryorion.9532]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

>

> But why would you use the berserker elite spec if you are not planning to utilise the berserk mode? That's like saying holosmith is also getting double dipped for it's trade off, since it also has 3 "non-functioning minor traits" outside of the holoforge. Even worse, the entire holosmith trait line is based on the holoforge. If you are not using it, then the entire holosmith trait line just consists of non-functioning traits.

 

Yeah, except Photon Forge has much more flexibilty over when you want to use it, when you want to exit it and when you want to use it again, so the traits are more on demand compared to Berserker. Now imagine if holosmith didnt have access to tool belt skills at all, just like Berserker doesn't have access to core bursts. And on top of that, toughness reduction when in PF. Look at Soulbeast. They can be merged permanently with all those stat bonuses without worrying about tradeoffs that would make them squishier. With Berserker trade off treatment, Soulbeast shouldn't have access to core pet skills at all and there should be -200 toughness penalty when merged.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

> >

> > But why would you use the berserker elite spec if you are not planning to utilise the berserk mode? That's like saying holosmith is also getting double dipped for it's trade off, since it also has 3 "non-functioning minor traits" outside of the holoforge. Even worse, the entire holosmith trait line is based on the holoforge. If you are not using it, then the entire holosmith trait line just consists of non-functioning traits.

>

> Yeah, except Photon Forge has much more flexibilty over when you want to use it, when you want to exit it and when you want to use it again, so the traits are more on demand compared to Berserker. Now imagine if holosmith didnt have access to tool belt skills at all, just like Berserker doesn't have access to core bursts. And on top of that, toughness reduction when in PF. Look at Soulbeast. They can be merged permanently with all those stat bonuses without worrying about tradeoffs that would make them squishier. With Berserker trade off treatment, Soulbeast shouldn't have access to core pet skills at all and there should be -200 toughness penalty when merged.

 

300 toughness :tongue: For Soulbeast though the stat penalty should be dependent on the pet type merged with.

 

Unless they have to build the stat bonuses like Spellbreaker there should be a stat hit on e-specs. I'll consider Mirage loosing a dodge to count in this case.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

>

> But why would you use the berserker elite spec if you are not planning to utilise the berserk mode?

 

I don't get your question. I didn't say a person wouldn't use the berserk mode if they choose the elite spec ... and nothing I have said should give you the impression that's what I'm saying either.

 

I'm saying that the minor traits don't work if you AREN'T in berserk mode. NONE of them.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

 

I don't think berserker is the only one that get non fonctioning minor traits when he doesn't use it's special mechanism. Scourge for example can forget about it's minor trait if he doesn't want to summon a sand shade (and can even have only a fraction of the effect of trait when he does). Deadeye have to mark it's target in order to benefit from it's minors and Holosmith need to use the photoforge as well. Granted that some other specialization also dedicate some of their minors to their special mechanism, your argument is hardly valid.

 

I won't say that those kind of trait are great, In fact I think that they are poorly positioned. However it's not like core traitlines also don't have poorly positioned effects. I'd even say that it's an ANet trademark to poorly distribute effects in the traitlines.

[Infusion.7149]

At least Berserker is relevant in PVE most of the time. Sure , it could use some QoL improvements since 300 toughness loss is a huge downside and the 15% attack rate doesn't stack with quickness. It would be nice if you could end berserk mode on your own, that's a major downside versus Soulbeast or Holosmith (and this is true regardless of game mode).

 

To be fair, chrono is worse except in very niche situations where you can have high slow uptime (to make the shatter skills do more damage) and clones not die to random AoEs and cleave. I don't even think it is decent in competitive modes unless you are running condi (which loses most of its burst from ambushes and axe), because clone generation is poor otherwise (you would need on dodge , staff/scepter clones, or use the sword clone that requires a target) so you'd only have weapon skills + utilities most of the time. Core power mesmer is better than chrono in that sense for power builds and in WvW the ramp time on the condi weapons is much too high to be useful in a squad environment where conditions are easily cleansed in less than 10-12 second intervals whether by scrappers, firebrands, or aura tempests.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

Also half the berserker versions of the burst skills are worse than the core counterparts so you are essentially waiting a longer cooldown to do worse skills while taking more incoming damage unless you take the trait to cancel out the penalty in which they made sure to nerf said trait beforehand.

 

But its ok because we still got headbutt which does 6 dmg but will do a 50% dmg bonus if it removes stability.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

> >

> > But why would you use the berserker elite spec if you are not planning to utilise the berserk mode?

>

> I don't get your question. I didn't say a person wouldn't use the berserk mode if they choose the elite spec ... and nothing I have said should give you the impression that's what I'm saying either.

>

> I'm saying that the minor traits don't work if you AREN'T in berserk mode. NONE of them.

 

Yeah and I have pointed out that literally all traits of the holosmith rely on the holoforge. I don't get how this is such a major downside, considering that the berserk mode is such an integral part of the gameplay of a berserker, just like holoforge is for the holosmith.

[Infusion.7149]

Going into Photon Forge doesn't make you a sitting duck for a counterburst and dropping out of Photon Forge actually heals you due to Heat Therapy.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> Also half the berserker versions of the burst skills are worse than the core counterparts so you are essentially waiting a longer cooldown to do worse skills while taking more incoming damage unless you take the trait to cancel out the penalty in which they made sure to nerf said trait beforehand.

>

> But its ok because we still got headbutt which does 6 dmg but will do a 50% dmg bonus if it removes stability.

 

50% on 6dmg, that's seriously op and needs nerfed yesterday.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

> > >

> > > But why would you use the berserker elite spec if you are not planning to utilise the berserk mode?

> >

> > I don't get your question. I didn't say a person wouldn't use the berserk mode if they choose the elite spec ... and nothing I have said should give you the impression that's what I'm saying either.

> >

> > I'm saying that the minor traits don't work if you AREN'T in berserk mode. NONE of them.

>

> Yeah and I have pointed out that literally all traits of the holosmith rely on the holoforge. I don't get how this is such a major downside, considering that the berserk mode is such an integral part of the gameplay of a berserker, just like holoforge is for the holosmith.

 

Honestly, I don't know what you are talking about. My point is simple ... Berserker gets 'double dipped' with a trade off because of the non-functioning of minor traits when not in berserker mode and the loss of HP that Anet intentionally designed as the tradeoff they sold us on. I don't care about Holo-whatever; it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

>

> I don't think berserker is the only one that get non fonctioning minor traits when he doesn't use it's special mechanism.

 

I think you missed my point ... NONE of the minor traits work when not in berserker mode. If that's not unique to only Berserker, that doesn't mean it's still not deficient.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

> >

> > I don't think berserker is the only one that get non fonctioning minor traits when he doesn't use it's special mechanism.

>

> I think you missed my point ... NONE of the minor traits work when not in berserker mode. If that's not unique to only Berserker, that doesn't mean it's still not deficient.

 

What do you mean "not efficient"? That it can be stronger? Sure, literally anything can be stronger, so apparently it's not efficient. There are many traits that "work only if", that's hardly an argument for... anything, really. I don't think they missed your point, what they're saying is: it's nothing out of ordinary in gw2. Because it's not.

[Obtena.7952]

My point has nothing to do with what is ordinary. WTH you talking about?

[Sobx.1758]

Nobody cares if you care. Your point is not a point as it's not an isolated instance, but somehow that's the only one you think is bad/not efficient/whatever.

 

_____________

Edit:

if anyone wonders why my post makes less sense now, that's because the post I was answering to (directly above) has been ninja-edited the next day. :)

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

> > > >

> > > > But why would you use the berserker elite spec if you are not planning to utilise the berserk mode?

> > >

> > > I don't get your question. I didn't say a person wouldn't use the berserk mode if they choose the elite spec ... and nothing I have said should give you the impression that's what I'm saying either.

> > >

> > > I'm saying that the minor traits don't work if you AREN'T in berserk mode. NONE of them.

> >

> > Yeah and I have pointed out that literally all traits of the holosmith rely on the holoforge. I don't get how this is such a major downside, considering that the berserk mode is such an integral part of the gameplay of a berserker, just like holoforge is for the holosmith.

>

> Honestly, I don't know what you are talking about. My point is simple ... Berserker gets 'double dipped' with a trade off because of the non-functioning of minor traits when not in berserker mode and the loss of HP that Anet intentionally designed as the tradeoff they sold us on. I don't care about Holo-whatever; it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

 

Loss of toughness. Vitality loss is scrapper.

[Mack.3045]

Sup Lighter.5631

 

I agree things are tough for us atm.

 

I've had good success with this in PvP. Happy to duel to confirm viability. Offers support to team mates and excellent condi cleanse and sustain.

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7lFwwYJsLmJmUXeteA-zZIPlGFBZKB6VBEyQQVDA

 

You'll find me in the PvP Arena. When i'm dueling in the Arena i swap out Soldier's Comfort for Leg Specialist - works a treat in combo with throw axe or bladetrail & bulls charge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lighter.5631]

> @"Mack.3045" said:

> Sup Lighter.5631

>

> I agree things are tough for us atm.

>

> I've had good success with this in PvP. Happy to duel to confirm viability. Offers support to team mates and excellent condi cleanse and sustain.

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7lFwwYJsLmJmUXeteA-zZIPlGFBZKB6VBEyQQVDA

>

> You'll find me in the PvP Arena. When i'm dueling in the Arena i swap out Soldier's Comfort for Leg Specialist - works a treat in combo with throw axe or bladetrail & bulls charge.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

i tried.

if you gonna run this, you may as well swap berserker to strength, basically the core war build that benefit more from FGJ and gives more damage and healing and evade

tho core war it'self is already bad enough in 5v5.

at least ill give you a thumb up for your build makes more sense then most of the other "top" player posted in the forum.

[Mack.3045]

That's true, core warrior does benefit more with FGJ and Forceful Greatsword and Might Makes Right.

I love my headbutts though :)

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

> >

> > I don't think berserker is the only one that get non fonctioning minor traits when he doesn't use it's special mechanism.

>

> I think you missed my point ... NONE of the minor traits work when not in berserker mode. If that's not unique to only Berserker, that doesn't mean it's still not deficient.

 

I agree that this kind of design isn't the best there is but like I said, it can hardly be seen as a trade-off. It's just traits in the way ANet like to design them so that the spec fit in how they picture it. You are usually quick to say that as long as it fit the image that ANet got of something, users shouldn't complain.

 

I mean, take core elementalist's minor traits of the elemental's traitline, If you just so happen to not use the attunment of these traitlines most of the minors traits are plain useless.

Take guardian's zeal traitline, if you refuse to use _symbol_'s skills for whatever reason, the minor are all wasted.

Take thief's shadow art traitline, if you don't want to use stealth you can't benefit from the minor traits because you don't enter stealth.

If you don't use the special mechanism of half of the core professions, you don't benefit from their special mechanism's traitline minor traits. (Arcane's minor are useless if you don't change attunment, Discipline's minor traits are useless if you don't switch weapon in combat, Beast mastery's minor traits are useless if you don't actively use your pets, Soul reaping's traits are useless if you don't make use of the shroud/shade mechanism, Virtue's minor traits are nigh useless if ou don't use virtues)

... etc.

 

This kind of minor traits where you need some specific thing to benefit from their effects are everywhere on every professions. It could be worse, at least there is a way to actively benefit from those traits while in combat.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > Berserker is certainly getting 'double dipped' for it's trade off. Not just the reduction in HP, but the fact that it gets three non-functioning minor traits outside of berserker mode.

> > >

> > > I don't think berserker is the only one that get non fonctioning minor traits when he doesn't use it's special mechanism.

> >

> > I think you missed my point ... NONE of the minor traits work when not in berserker mode. If that's not unique to only Berserker, that doesn't mean it's still not deficient.

>

> I agree that this kind of design isn't the best there is but like I said, it can hardly be seen as a trade-off.

 

Hold on ... just because Berserker minor traits in the way Anet like to design them so that the spec fit in how they picture it doesn't mean they aren't deficient or trade offs. To be fair, you're right ... Minor traits not working in non-berserker mode aren't trade offs because you don't get ANYTHING in non-berserker mode when they don't work. it's just a plain old loss of trait benefits.