The RNG on the Mystic Clovers needs to GO AWAY

[Kronos.3695]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"Kronos.3695" said:

> > No, it doesn't.

> this is mmo game. First try find part of sarcasm on each post.

>

> > @"TPMN.1483" said:

> > If making legenderies use an alt account when it’s clovers are full from daily’s then send to your main account.

> Main idea - you can get everything if play. So let it be.

>

>

 

I don't get the sense of your comment, what were you trying to say?

[kharmin.7683]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > You can finish any WVW track without fighting another player if you pay attention. Ive gotten all my GOBS and ive rarely fought someone, hell i made it to rank..340? i think without fighting many players, its not hard.

> > I wish that I had your luck. I can't spend much time in WvW without getting ganked. I hate that mode which is why I don't play it.

> @"kharmin.7683" . If you are going to Desert Borderlands and reading the maps correctly to judge enemy movements and still getting ganked near constantly, there maybe other problems.

> Avoiding enemy players can be a bit of skill in itself but it really isn't a hard one to learn. If you are on NA and either on Jade Quarry or our link, feel free to shoot me a message in game and I would be happy to give you some pointers.

> It doesn't have to be a misery and it's rarely a question of luck.

 

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. :) Yes, I'm sure that there are other problems with me. haha!

[Dante.1763]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > You can finish any WVW track without fighting another player if you pay attention. Ive gotten all my GOBS and ive rarely fought someone, hell i made it to rank..340? i think without fighting many players, its not hard.

> > I wish that I had your luck. I can't spend much time in WvW without getting ganked. I hate that mode which is why I don't play it.

> @"kharmin.7683" . If you are going to Desert Borderlands and reading the maps correctly to judge enemy movements and still getting ganked near constantly, there maybe other problems.

> Avoiding enemy players can be a bit of skill in itself but it really isn't a hard one to learn. If you are on NA and either on Jade Quarry or our link, feel free to shoot me a message in game and I would be happy to give you some pointers.

> It doesn't have to be a misery and it's rarely a question of luck.

 

Yup. I run around on a Condi SB or a power ele and actively look for players, far easier to avoid them if ones looking for them.

 

Also Mindcircus, i know time = currency, but in PVE you need a second currency always, you dont just get clovers for the currency of time.(monthly rewards i suppose, but you earn far less from that then from wvw/pvp tracks.)

 

Karma, Materials, coins etc are always required for PVE along with time spent getting those materials. One could argue that its because wvw/pvp are more dangerous, but considering ive made 14 legendaries without fighting many players, i dont think thats a valid argument. PVP ecspecially if you do daily rooms and max out the rewards per day.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > > You can finish any WVW track without fighting another player if you pay attention. Ive gotten all my GOBS and ive rarely fought someone, hell i made it to rank..340? i think without fighting many players, its not hard.

> > > I wish that I had your luck. I can't spend much time in WvW without getting ganked. I hate that mode which is why I don't play it.

> > @"kharmin.7683" . If you are going to Desert Borderlands and reading the maps correctly to judge enemy movements and still getting ganked near constantly, there maybe other problems.

> > Avoiding enemy players can be a bit of skill in itself but it really isn't a hard one to learn. If you are on NA and either on Jade Quarry or our link, feel free to shoot me a message in game and I would be happy to give you some pointers.

> > It doesn't have to be a misery and it's rarely a question of luck.

>

> Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. :) Yes, I'm sure that there are other problems with me. haha!

 

It also depends on what time of the day you're playing. Don't expect to saunter into the ruins to camp Monuments without a fight during NA prime ;)

 

Best all around advice is to just group up with some other players. Doesn't need to be a zerg, even a group of 2-3 other players can make WvW feel alot more fun, especially you if you're new to the mode. Despite what certain very small (yet obnoxious) segments of the 'roaming' community want to believe, this remains an MMORPG, and I can't recall ever 'solo roaming' in a WoW battleground, but would instead gather in groups, often with support (Horde only ofc) and utilize teamwork; so why joining alongside other players in GW2 is considered wrong remains a mystery to me.

 

Don't be the "any tags?" person in /t, but DO ask in /m if there is anyone up for grouping with. GW2 remains (imo) one of the friendliest communities, and I have little doubt you'll get invites to a small havoc group. Spent several hours on Saturday with a group of 7 players flipping keeps and towers while dodging the blob they sent out after us. Good times.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > I dont want to see PvE for a month now, but unfortunetly Anet gonna shove it down our throats in short order.

> You can make a thread about how Anet tortures it's players with World Bosses and Jumping Puzzles.

 

Why not just one about things you don't like in general without mentioning specifics? This could cover all possible items! As an added benefit the post will remain accurate even if you ever change your mind as long as you don't end up loving every part of the game.

[Mazreal Blackknight.1564]

I roll for clovers early in my legendary crafting (any of them, trinkets, rings, armor or weapons.), because I can use the extra items I get (Ie t6 mats) for the gifts and not have to spend as much or farm as much of them. I also use the 10 clover rolls, and I am active in WvW where I can get a nice amount stocked up between items I am after.

[WolfOwl.3968]

I don't get all these comments like "just play fractals," or "just do WvW dailies for the reward track." Why should it be harder for a casual player who doesn't enjoy content like that to get such an item? I do WvW dailies often just to get dailies done, and sometime just FINDING that blasted veteran creature to kill can be a CHORE. Seems that people forget that what is easy for them may not be so easy for another player, and suggesting that someone just "do what I do" is disrespectful of their playtime if they aren't interested in that content.

 

But that also begs the question about casual open world content and items like the Mystic Clover. Why is Open World the only content that has it gated behind RNG?

[WolfOwl.3968]

> @"Jayden Reese.9542" said:

 

> Because it's a legendary and tech not even needed as ascended are the same stats so it's more about the status and journey to get it I guess. Now the vet creatures are always in the same spots alot near spawn on a borderland. Once you learn the spots or even just 1 they have a 12 minute respawn time so worst case you idle for a bit

 

I know where the spawns are, but my point remains. Waiting for 12 minutes (if you're unlucky enough to just miss the creature being killed) to accomplish 1 daily isn't respectful of my time, especially if it's content that I don't want to do. All so I can get some Reward Track progress, again in content that I may not want to play, just to get a guaranteed item because it's locked behind RNG in open world.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> I don't get all these comments like "just play fractals," or "just do WvW dailies for the reward track." Why should it be harder for a casual player who doesn't enjoy content like that to get such an item? I do WvW dailies often just to get dailies done, and sometime just FINDING that blasted veteran creature to kill can be a CHORE. Seems that people forget that what is easy for them may not be so easy for another player, and suggesting that someone just "do what I do" is disrespectful of their playtime if they aren't interested in that content.

>

> But that also begs the question about casual open world content and items like the Mystic Clover. Why is Open World the only content that has it gated behind RNG?

 

Easy enough to answer.

 

ANET wants to make money. Period. It is a business, and everything they do is designed to maximize revenue.

 

Legendary Weapons are a luxury that provide no meaningful advantage towards completing the content. They are flashy, have the QoL feature of being able to swap stats and remove upgrades, but they are just purple ascended level weapons. You are at no disadvantage for not having them. Because of this, ANET makes it a bit of a slog to acquire them, as it provides an endgame goal for many players.

 

For players that you are describing, some may decide to not bother with legendary items, but others will decide that since they don't have as many hours to play per week, that they swipe their credit card to buy gems to then convert to gold, and either buy Gen 1 legendary weapons straight off the TP, or just buy the mystic coins et al that they need to craft Gen 2/2.5's....and ANET makes money.

 

Legendary items are also MASSIVE gold and material sinks that work to help keep gold inflation in check. A Gen 2.5 weapon costs something around 2.5k gold worth of materials, and those materials are removed from the game when you make the weapon.

 

As to your last sentence, I think you have it backwards. Posts like yours are disrespectful of the playtime other players expend in order to get these items. You aren't asking that you get to select a free Legendary Weapon in your Day 28 log in chest - but that 's the road you're heading down.

 

You are literally complaining at the added expense involved in getting a legendary weapons without having to raid, do fractals, PvP, or do anything more in WvW other than farm dailies to get a Gift of Battle, while also forgetting that despite not partaking in that content, YOU CAN STILL GET A LEGENDARY WEAPON.

 

Back when I raided in WoW, only the top players and guilds on the servers had a legendary weapon, while 99% of the playerbase couldn't even get to see that content.

 

GW2 is the most accessible casual friendly MMO in the history of MMOs, so hard for me to sympathize with QQ threads like this one.

[WolfOwl.3968]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

 

> As to your last sentence, I think you have it backwards. Posts like yours are disrespectful of the playtime other players expend in order to get these items. You aren't asking that you get to select a free Legendary Weapon in your Day 28 log in chest - but that 's the road you're heading down.

Not at all, what I'm saying is that someone who wants to play Open world content to the exclusion of other content, i.e. fractals, raids, WvW, or PvP, should have their playtime respected as much as those modes. And let's be clear, we're not talking about only T4 fractals and CMs getting access to guaranteed Clovers, or ony PvP tourney winners, or taking a keep or garrison in WvW. We're talking about low level play in each content that's being given guaranteed items necessary for making a Legendary, while even hardcore Open world players are stuck with an RNG option only. Giving those players a guaranteed option similar to other content is only leveling the playing field, I'm in no way suggesting that it should just be GIVEN to the player for logging in or even doing dailies, some effort should be required or you just diminish the appeal of getting a legendary in the first place.

> You are literally complaining at the added expense involved in getting a legendary weapons without having to raid, do fractals, PvP, or do anything more in WvW other than farm dailies to get a Gift of Battle, while also forgetting that despite not partaking in that content, YOU CAN STILL GET A LEGENDARY WEAPON.

No, the complaint is literally about ONE ITEM needed to make a legendary and that item being locked behind ridiculous RNG for one game-mode.

 

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> Giving those players a guaranteed option similar to other content is only leveling the playing field,

I tell you what... lets set two players on different paths. For four hours one will WvW zerg and the other will farm Dragonfall. Both players will sell everything they earn for materials to roll on Clovers.

On one side you will have a player with upwards of 60 gold to roll on Clovers.

One the other you will have a player with about 15 gold and 4 gauranteed Clovers from the reward track.

Who do you think is going to have more progress towards their legendary at the end of 4 hours?

 

Giving the guaranteed option to competitive reward tracks was an attempt to level the playing field in the first place.

The playing field isn't even close to level. If a player chooses to ignore the guaranteed progress towards Clovers in competitive and focus only on PvE to play the Forge RNG they are still coming out far better.

WvW rewards are,obectively speaking, that bad.

[kharmin.7683]

Maybe WvW rewards are lower to encourage actual WvW game-play and not just reward hunters? Not being snide. Just wondering if that's Anet's reasoning for the disparity?

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> Not at all, what I'm saying is that someone who wants to play Open world content to the exclusion of other content, i.e. fractals, raids, WvW, or PvP, should have their playtime respected as much as those modes.

 

Well imo, that is because you have conflated equality of opportunity with equality of outcome. (a common problem these days.)

 

I feel confident in saying that in GW2, every player has equality of opportunity. Raiding might be the only content that has a base level of skill and game knowledge requirement, but it is also the content that has nothing that cannot be acquired from other modes (barring some skins).

 

Any player can zone in to T1 fractals, sPvP or WvW, and regardless of ability or success rate, you are able to earn the reward tracks and currencies needed to get guaranteed clovers. Obviously players who are participate more, at higher levels and/or have higher success rates will get them faster, but it is available to all. The only thing that prevents players from accessing those guaranteed rewards are four simple words: I dont want to.

 

 

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> And let's be clear, we're not talking about only T4 fractals and CMs getting access to guaranteed Clovers, or ony PvP tourney winners, or taking a keep or garrison in WvW. We're talking about low level play in each content that's being given guaranteed items necessary for making a Legendary, while even hardcore Open world players are stuck with an RNG option only.

 

I agree.

 

So if you were a gaming developer, and you wanted to give incentive for OW PvE players to try other game modes, how would you do it?

 

Without needing a gift of battle, would you even know where to find the Veteran Creature in WvW?

 

Now you've said you don't enjoy that content, and that's fine, nobody is forcing you to play it, as legendary items aren't required gear to play this game. But if you want the legendary, then yes, you have to do what it takes to get a Gift of Battle.

 

Flip the coin over now.

 

What if you were a WvW only player, and you wanted to craft Bifrost or Sunrise? Now you need to do World Map Completion to get Gifts of Exploration, or if you want a Gen 2/2.5, you need to go into the OW to get the requirements for Gift of Jungle Mastery or Gift of Desert Mastery...which I'm sure you as an OW player can't imagine being a problem for anyone, or why any player would complain about that requirement......

 

As others have mentioned, WvW only players also can't earn the same amount of gold as quickly/easily as a PvE player, making it harder for them to buy the mats they need.

 

Let's not pretend that OW PvE players or some victimized class here. The same restrictions apply to all 'single game mode only players'

 

Which nicely tees up your next sentence.

 

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

>Giving those players a guaranteed option similar to other content is only leveling the playing field,

 

Leveling the playing field? I'm 99% confident when I say you can go and farm RIBA and earn the gold to get Mystic Clovers faster than a WvW/PvP player can complete a reward track.

 

WvW Reward tracks take about 8hours or so to complete, not counting use of potions? PvP reward tracks can be completed faster I believe, but you have to be GOOD and win your matches for that to happen.

 

In 8hrs of RIBA you can earn, 160g (if you figure 20g/hr) which is enough to buy roughly 100 mystic coins to gamble. RNG is RNG ofc, but odds are, you'll walk away with more than 2 clovers for those 100 coins.

 

But who thinks farming RIBA for 8hrs is fun, right? I don't.

 

So we're right back to: I don't want to.

 

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> No, the complaint is literally about ONE ITEM needed to make a legendary and that item being locked behind ridiculous RNG for one game-mode.

 

That is simply your perspective bias at work.

 

Let me put it to you another way: an OW PvE player can get 77 Mystic Clovers without having to step outside of Lions Arch or kill a single mob. All they need to do is buy gems, convert to gold, buy mystic coins, and play Magic Toilet Slot Machine.

 

Contrast that to a WvW player who has to spend roughly 8hrs in WvW to earn 2 Mystic Clovers, etc.

 

Now a WvW / PvP player can swipe their credit card too - my point is, the method of obtaining mystic clovers in OW only content can be done by just paying with real money, so it makes sense to me that it would be the least efficient, since it also has the lowest minimum requirement of effort and play time, while also being the most lucrative for ANET.

 

Look, I'm a PvX player, and I play / have played everything in this game besides raiding, so whenever I come across complaint posts from PvE or WvW only players about how good 'the other side' has it, I tend to roll my eyes a bit, as the convenience they want, the easier method to getting what they want, be it gold, mystic clovers, transmutation charges, unidentified dyes, etc etc etc, remains available to them in the game mode they refuse to play.

 

I just finished crafting my 2nd set of Legendary Armor via WvW, and it is not lost on me that I could have crafted it far faster with less time expended if I did so via Raiding...but I don't raid, have no interest in GW2 raiding, and don't see that changing anytime soon. But I also recognize the reasons why it takes far longer to craft Leg armor in WvW than it does by raiding, and have made peace with it.

 

Should I complain that I have to spend 22 weeks of earning Diamond Chests to get the materials I need to craft a full set of armor, when a raider can do the same in 12 weeks? Seems unfair. But then you have to consider that the raider actually has to successfully kill the bosses, while the WvW'er just needs to spend enough time on the map to get their diamond chest each week, regardless of what they do. From that perspective, it seems a bit more reasonable now.

 

As far as Legendary Weapons et al are concerned in GW2, the worst it gets is: you must enter WvW for a Gift of Battle, and you must PvE for a Gift of Jungle/Desert Mastery/World Completion. It's almost as if ANET thinks players should participate in more than a single aspect of this vast game of theirs. Weird.

 

 

 

 

[WolfOwl.3968]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

 

> On one side you will have a player with upwards of 60 gold to roll on Clovers.

> One the other you will have a player with about 15 gold and 4 gauranteed Clovers from the reward track.

 

I'd actually be curious to see this actually tested, even though the whole thing would rely heavily on random factors like:

* RNG of drops

* What numbers of players the zerg in WvW ran into (accounting for bag drops)

* etc

 

The point I was making is that WvW, Fractals, and other game modes are being touted as an option for bypassing the RNG rate of Mystic Clovers, and some players may not be inclined to play them and shouldn't be forced to.

 

As for the gold sink, did you read where the OP posted he had tried 30 times without a single Clover? (Not being sarcastic, just asking) With Mystic coins going for over a gold apiece on the AH that's better than half of your projected gold for the PVE player spent without a clover, whereas your WvW player would have 4. This really doesn't prove anything since it's highly anecdotal evidence, just food for thought. The RNG rate is the problem, not the gold sink or any other issue with acquiring mats.

 

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> The point I was making is that WvW, Fractals, and other game modes are being touted as an option for bypassing the RNG rate of Mystic Clovers, and some players may not be inclined to play them and shouldn't be forced to.

They aren't. This is why the MF sink exists.

 

[WolfOwl.3968]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

 

> Any player can zone in to T1 fractals, sPvP or WvW, and regardless of ability or success rate, you are able to earn the reward tracks and currencies needed to get guaranteed clovers. Obviously players who are participate more, at higher levels and/or have higher success rates will get them faster, but it is available to all. The only thing that prevents players from accessing those guaranteed rewards are four simple words: I dont want to.

Yes, that content is available to all players, but the problem here is that in this thread they're being touted as a means to bypass the RNG of Mystic Clovers. You've elegantly made the point that WvW players excluding OW content have a rougher time achieving the same goals. (As did another person whose tag I'm spacing atm so I apologize) The thread wasn't started as OW getting the short end of the stick in regards to Mystic Clover, but others added the content mentioned above as a means of bypassing it, which in my view totally disregards the question of why the Mystic Clovers have a low rate of RNG, or even RNG, in the first place.

If I've made it appear that I think OW players are getting shafted or that encouraging them to play other modes is bad, then that's a failure of communication on my part.

> Now you've said you don't enjoy that content, and that's fine, nobody is forcing you to play it, as legendary items aren't required gear to play this game. But if you want the legendary, then yes, you have to do what it takes to get a Gift of Battle.

I actually didn't say that, but I know people that aren't terribly interested in playing those modes for whatever reason and forcing them to is just odd to me. And getting into why the requirements for legendaries covers multiple game modes doesn't really fall under the scope of this thread.

>It's almost as if ANET thinks players should participate in more than a single aspect of this vast game of theirs. Weird.

Thinking they should and wanting them to are totally different from forcing them to. I think we can agree that Anet wants their players to have fun with their game and enjoy as much of it as possible.

 

 

[Manasa Devi.7958]

Just a heads up: the new Drizzlewood WvW reward track (PvP as well probably) gives a lot of clovers. 14 in total if I counted correctly.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> Why should it be harder for a casual player who doesn't enjoy content like that to get such an item?

 

Here we see again the uselessness of labels like "casual" without defining what it is supposed to mean.

 

Slowly collecting the necessary things overtime to make a legendary is quite casual.

As opposed to trying to rush through finishing one ASAP which I would consider very non-casual.

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"WolfOwl.3968" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

>

> > On one side you will have a player with upwards of 60 gold to roll on Clovers.

> > One the other you will have a player with about 15 gold and 4 gauranteed Clovers from the reward track.

>

> I'd actually be curious to see this actually tested, even though the whole thing would rely heavily on random factors like:

> * RNG of drops

> * What numbers of players the zerg in WvW ran into (accounting for bag drops)

> * etc

Again there is literally **no rng**. Reward track progress have nothing to with zergs or bag drops. Its just time and maintaining participation and its *guaranteed* an *exact* number of clovers.

 

If people dont want that, fine! Grind PvE. You get 10x the gold in the same amount of played time, if not more. Use that gold to buy your legendary mats. Its rng, its much more expensive, but why should people swimming in gold care?

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Manasa Devi.7958" said:

> Just a heads up: the new Drizzlewood WvW reward track (PvP as well probably) gives a lot of clovers. 14 in total if I counted correctly.

you did. It's great.

[Ayrilana.1396]

The "reward track" on the new map for the commendations awards mystic clovers as well. So there's now an open world method to obtain mystic clovers directly.

 

/thread

[Rauderi.8706]

Been saying this for *years*.

[Vash.2386]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I've always had far better luck with the 10x recipe, plus I used to that first so when I failed my rng, I got other useful mats for the legendary or could resell for coins.

>

> Nowadays my large stockpile comes from the end of login cycle, but I'm prob one of the few people who favoured the 10x recipe despite the risk

 

I agree ... I seem to get much better luck with the 10x recipe too.

[Ayrilana.1396]

The issue with the x10 recipe is that you’re taking on more volatility with your RNG due to the few rolls. This means that you’d have a much higher chance to burn through materials before you hit the average.

[realviizz.4982]

You can now farm clovers in Drizzlewood Coast, no RNG needed. The "Glory to X Legion" Achievements are infinitely repeatable (from how it looks). At the end of all 20 Tiers you'll get a chest with 2 clovers guaranteed. You can farm 5k commendations (for a complete achievement) in around 3-4 Metas I would assume.