Balance Change Suggestions for the Next Update

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

**Direction of the game**

Right now, a lot of people seem to agree that the current meta isnt fun. From what ive heard and experienced, this is because of how strong bunker builds are, and how 1v1s, and even +1 situations have turned into stalemates where its impossible to kill each other. Ideally, they game should be balanced in the direction of skillful and decisive fights, both for teamfights and 1v1s. We dont want the old meta where you died instantly in a 1v1 if you made a tiny mistake, and we dont want the current meta where no one dies, even with a +1. For those who watched the MOTA, you could see how the main focus of sidenode 1v1s was to push your opponent off the point, because killing them wasnt an option. That isnt fun to watch, and it certainly isnt fun to play.

 

That being said, here are my suggested nerfs and changes.

 

**General Changes**

- Renegade legends NEED to have their visual effects reduced. They are incredibly obtrusive on their own, and in teamfights you cant see anything standing inside or behind them.

- In general, healing/sustain needs a slight nerf.

- Some mobility skills should have their range slightly nerfed, or cooldown increased. Some suggestions are: reduce Soulbeast bird swoop and shiro phase traversal range to 900. Increase holo leap cooldown by 1-2 seconds.

- Aoe is very important as a mechanic for pressuring high priority areas such as downed targets, choke points, and capture nodes. However, it is so excessive right now that it is often just unavoidable passive damage. Obviously redesigning skills is out of the question, so I suggest reducing a lot of the aoe radii on skills. This shouldnt apply to every aoe skill, but rather each skill should be looked at individually and addressed based on its function and potential impact.

 

**Specific Class Nerfs**

 

Holo:

- It is still possible to passively sit at around 12-15 might stacks, and its pretty easy to grant yourself 20+ stacks at will. The HGH and High Capacity Storage Unit traits need to be looked at. High Capacity Storage Unit is a problem because of how easy it is to stay at high heat levels with skills like elixir X and elixir S stopping heat generation.

- Grenade kit/barrage, and explosive entrance damage needs to be looked at and tested as well. With might stacking its possible to nearly 1 shot people with these skills.

 

Guardian/FB:

- Still has far too much aoe. My suggestion would be to remove the radius increase of symbols from the Writ of Persistence trait. Shield of absorption could also use a slight radius reduction, given how its a very powerful aoe cc with next to no telegraph.

 

Condi Rev:

- Too much aoe. Call to anguish is definitely in need of a radius nerf. Other skill radii to look at would be mace 2&3, Embrace the Darkness, Invoke torment, Song of the mists.

- Too much sustain. Condi rev can stall indefinitely, and hold a point 1v2 vs some builds. The main issue seems to be there are too many sources of healing and healing is too powerful. Two legend heals, shield 4&5, regen, and typically 2 of fiendish tenacity, rapid flow, steadfast rejuvenation, shining aspects, or resilient spirit from traits.

 

Tempest:

- Smothering Auras has been over-performing as a condi cleanse for a while now.

- Self and group healing seems a little high

 

Necro:

- I dont play necro, so I cant really say anything specific. From what ive seen, damage and tankiness are both very high, and at least one of them needs slight adjusting. Lich form auto attack damage seems like it could use a nerf.

 

Ranger/Soulbeast:

- Again, I dont play ranger, so I cant really say much. From what ive seen in game and in the MOTA, its similar to condi rev where it is an unkillable 1v1 build, and it can stall almost indefinitely in a 1v2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

Thread title is misleading.

 

"My balance change ideas".

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

No mesmer changes, seems like official to me.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> No mesmer changes, seems like official to me.

 

Do u really want the anet devs touching mes again?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > No mesmer changes, seems like official to me.

>

> Do u really want the anet devs touching mes again?

 

Of course, we can't let the nerf memes die.

[Eurantien.4632]

The reason people opted to push people off of point and try and tank the 1v1 was because ranger did not have another option. All other ranger builds that could potentially kill your opponent 1v1 were too much of a risk, died easier than holo when +'d, and contributed less to the teamfight. That meant the only way ranger could be effective was to out tank the other 1v1 in a +. This was only possible because of everyone running a lot of condition classes - giving ranger an artificially high value because it could not be effectively +'d by necro, rev, or condi thief. The problem with the ranger build played however, was that it is weak to power burst and boon rip. What removes boons and has high power damage that can roam? Power Rev and Power Mesmer. Mesmer is gone. And power rev is out-shined by condi rev and you could only have 1 of a specialization in the mota.

 

The only reason sides are bunky, is because condi revenant is busted. If power rev was still in the mix - I think things would be different.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > No mesmer changes, seems like official to me.

> >

> > Do u really want the anet devs touching mes again?

>

> Of course, we can't let the nerf memes die.

 

Ok! Nerf mesmers clones, their anoying and confusing. Mesmer and especially mirage shouldn't have the ability to clone itself, doesn't even suit the class. Instead of clones mesmers should toss a crystal ball out reflecting light blinding itself, teammates and the opposition. To balance such a powerful skill enemies lose their blind 10 secs before the mesmer and its teammates. Blind cant be cleared.

Now that's balance emiright.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> Thread title is misleading.

>

> "My balance change ideas".

 

fixed

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The fact u don't offer up changes to classes u admit u don't play says somthing about u, respect.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> The reason people opted to push people off of point and try and tank the 1v1 was because ranger did not have another option. All other ranger builds that could potentially kill your opponent 1v1 were too much of a risk, died easier than holo when +'d, and contributed less to the teamfight. That meant the only way ranger could be effective was to out tank the other 1v1 in a +. This was only possible because of everyone running a lot of condition classes - giving ranger an artificially high value because it could not be effectively +'d by necro, rev, or condi thief. The problem with the ranger build played however, was that it is weak to power burst and boon rip. What removes boons and has high power damage that can roam? Power Rev and Power Mesmer. Mesmer is gone. And power rev is out-shined by condi rev and you could only have 1 of a specialization in the mota.

>

> The only reason sides are bunky, is because condi revenant is busted. If power rev was still in the mix - I think things would be different.

 

This is a much better explanation than I could have posted. I definitely agree that condi rev is the biggest balance problem right now.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > No mesmer changes, seems like official to me.

> > >

> > > Do u really want the anet devs touching mes again?

> >

> > Of course, we can't let the nerf memes die.

>

> Ok! Nerf mesmers clones, their anoying and confusing. Mesmer and especially mirage shouldn't have the ability to clone itself, doesn't even suit the class. Instead of clones mesmers should toss a crystal ball out reflecting light blinding itself, teammates and the opposition. To balance such a powerful skill enemies lose their blind 10 secs before the mesmer and its teammates. Blind cant be cleared.

> Now that's balance emiright.

 

Too confusing.

Instead I propose Mesmer doesn't have the ability to produce clones and phantasms anymore, mesmer itself has the stats of a clone now.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > No mesmer changes, seems like official to me.

> > > >

> > > > Do u really want the anet devs touching mes again?

> > >

> > > Of course, we can't let the nerf memes die.

> >

> > Ok! Nerf mesmers clones, their anoying and confusing. Mesmer and especially mirage shouldn't have the ability to clone itself, doesn't even suit the class. Instead of clones mesmers should toss a crystal ball out reflecting light blinding itself, teammates and the opposition. To balance such a powerful skill enemies lose their blind 10 secs before the mesmer and its teammates. Blind cant be cleared.

> > Now that's balance emiright.

>

> Too confusing.

> Instead I propose Mesmer doesn't have the ability to produce clones and phantasms anymore, mesmer itself has the stats of a clone now.

 

Maybe give the mess a quickly depleting hp pool so ur in downstate at the time ur clones would normally dissipate.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > > No mesmer changes, seems like official to me.

> > > >

> > > > Do u really want the anet devs touching mes again?

> > >

> > > Of course, we can't let the nerf memes die.

> >

> > Ok! Nerf mesmers clones, their anoying and confusing. Mesmer and especially mirage shouldn't have the ability to clone itself, doesn't even suit the class. Instead of clones mesmers should toss a crystal ball out reflecting light blinding itself, teammates and the opposition. To balance such a powerful skill enemies lose their blind 10 secs before the mesmer and its teammates. Blind cant be cleared.

> > Now that's balance emiright.

>

> Too confusing.

> Instead I propose Mesmer doesn't have the ability to produce clones and phantasms anymore, mesmer itself has the stats of a clone now.

 

its in the works, chrono has new cought " feature " cough where clones dont appear

[Fueki.4753]

My balance suggestions are:

1) Revert those 300 seconds cooldown changes on defensive traits.

2) Put proper damage back on CC skills.

3) Remove a good chunk of CC in pvp or massively buff stun breaking.

4) Hit the sustain of current bunkers hard.

5) Nerf over-performing condition builds.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> My balance suggestions are:

> 1) Revert those 300 seconds cooldown changes on defensive traits.

> 2) Put proper damage back on CC skills.

> 3) Remove a good chunk of CC in pvp or massively buff stun breaking.

> 4) Hit the sustain of current bunkers hard.

> 5) Nerf over-performing condition builds.

 

Those seem like sensible changes so as far as anet is concerned u may as well wrote ur post in gibberish cus ull see non of those changes anytime soon.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > My balance suggestions are:

> > 1) Revert those 300 seconds cooldown changes on defensive traits.

> > 2) Put proper damage back on CC skills.

> > 3) Remove a good chunk of CC in pvp or massively buff stun breaking.

> > 4) Hit the sustain of current bunkers hard.

> > 5) Nerf over-performing condition builds.

>

> Those seem like sensible changes so as far as anet is concerned u may as well wrote ur post in gibberish cus ull see non of those changes anytime soon.

 

Once in a blue moon, Arenanet **might** do changes that are good for pvp though.

[otto.5684]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> My balance suggestions are:

> 1) Revert those 300 seconds cooldown changes on defensive traits.

> 2) Put proper damage back on CC skills.

> 3) Remove a good chunk of CC in pvp or massively buff stun breaking.

> 4) Hit the sustain of current bunkers hard.

> 5) Nerf over-performing condition builds.

 

Add damage to a many builds as well. But.. yeah. This is too much work that Anet devs are so lazy (or incompetent? I hope it is lazy, but I cannot tell anymore). They will just nerf some stuff and call it a day.

 

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > My balance suggestions are:

> > > 1) Revert those 300 seconds cooldown changes on defensive traits.

> > > 2) Put proper damage back on CC skills.

> > > 3) Remove a good chunk of CC in pvp or massively buff stun breaking.

> > > 4) Hit the sustain of current bunkers hard.

> > > 5) Nerf over-performing condition builds.

> >

> > Those seem like sensible changes so as far as anet is concerned u may as well wrote ur post in gibberish cus ull see non of those changes anytime soon.

>

> Once in a blue moon, Arenanet **might** do changes that are good for pvp though.

 

Not since they but Cal in charge. We have been on downward slope, and it does not look like it is going to stop anytime soon.

[Broady.2358]

Seems like reasonable suggestions to me. What is also good is you gave reasons behind your proposed changes too. No arguments from this gamer! :)

[xWiroo.3841]

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:

> Ideally, the game should be balanced in the direction of skillful and decisive fights, both for teamfights and 1v1s.

 

Thats just your take, arenanet has no clear direction in terms of pvp, simply put would be that they are like a girl that doesnt know what she wants.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I just dont know how they have jobs, not to be mean and I'm sry but how lax is management there?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

smothering auras is fine. its strong and it helps ele have more builds.

would you rather fight against earth/ water weaver?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> smothering auras is fine. its strong and it helps ele have more builds.

> would you rather fight against earth/ water weaver?

 

Now that im thinking about it, I think the issue is more that transmute fire on focus 5 is on a 10(8) second cooldown. I think it would make more sense to increase the cd, which would also help reduce easy might stacking.

[Stallic.2397]

I wouldn't change smothering auras either. Before that change, Ele's would die to any condition build if not speccing Water. And the main post is complaining about Bunker Builds? If Ele's are forced into water because of Smothering Aura's change, it'll just exacerbate the problem.

 

Tempest was the common Ele build in MOTA. Not LR, which is just so conveniently ironic. Since everyone suggested nerfing LR to oblivion. Anyhow, if tempests are too much of a problem, then nerf Tempests, don't touch core

[ZeteCommander.4937]

I only care about when they fix the elite and skills that left in the garbage?

[aelska.4609]

The problem I have with these kind of topics is that it proposes changes that makes class "balanced between them", instead of pushing the game in a "more fun to play" direction, by fixing "global design".

 

The secret behind the balance is that ... all the classes are quite balanced (at the exception of warrior and maybe mesmer). If you queue with any of these classes, no one will blame you "hey you are playing an underperforming class". So the only balance suggestion we could make is "buff warrior and mesmer" and ta-da, game balanced with the current design.

 

However, it does not make the game more fun due to bad design. And these are numerous:

* **Strong skills/effects with little to no animation**

* **Skills having insane damage over cast time ratio**: 1/4s cast time is already below the average human reaction time with a decent stimulus (animation/noise), putting "must-dodge" skills below 1/2s cast time is insane. The only counter to it being ... super instinct. This is even more true in all the visual clutter we have in gw2.

* **Rezzes/rallying**: often feel too strong, it was already the case during powercreep meta, it is even worse now. Many suggestions have already been posted to fix that

* **Casting strong skills under stealth**: which gives no chance for the opponent to dodge them, besides super instinct. Many suggestions have already been posted to fix that.

* **Omnipresence of CC** (byproduct of big patch): they feel too spammable, makes the game "clunky". There are two ways of fixing that: give more stabilities options OR make CC rarer but more powerful (skill interrupted ? -> Full CD, sorry mate you got outplayed _(it is an extreme example eh, do not argue on, as it is not the goal of this post)_

* **Omnipresence of sustain** (byproduct of big patch): with damage nerf, the defence options we had before feel stronger: 3 second block/evade/invu before feels like 6 seconds now as damage got halved but not the CD.

* **AoE** : classes are way more mobile than they were in the creation of the game, but AoE design is the same: static on the ground; hence making them "virtually" less potent as there are more ways now to avoid them. Anet tried to fix that by introducing bigger AoE (so that they tick more/have more chance to hit), and by making more powerful (so that if it hits, it hits hard knowing it only hits 1/10 of the time). This is bad design: standing in "weak skill AoE" should not obliterate you (e.g.: guard symbols, sword of justice; renegade spirits; etc.).

* **Skills that will still have an effect even if "interrupted"** : Reaper GS#5, revenant axe#5, etc. Yup, not worth to use a CC on this skill as they will have an effect no matter what.

* **Boon spam/Corrupt spam**: Boon management is not rewardful as it will probably be corrupted right away, corrupt management is not rewardful as the boon will probably be reapplied right away. So? Just spam it.

* **Weakness**: Effects are too random and extreme to be fun. Either hit for 6k or hit for 500 depending on the RNG ? heck no, give it a flat damage-penalty.

* **Abundance of unblockable skills**: block/aegis is a defence option, a "counter to a counter" that has a low CD is just something that you can spam in any situation... that's even worse if it is a CC, what unblockable skills tend to be.

* **Stats effectiveness**: Discussable of course, but I think they should be more extreme: nearly no damage if you dont have power/condition damage; nearly no healing if you dont have healing power but way more if you do; nearly no damage reduction if you dont have toughness but much more if you do; etc. _That's probably something that will never happen as how much work should be done to change that, I dont even know why I bring that on the table._

* **Life savers passive traits**: carrying unaware players since 2012. Actually a success-story from Anet as they have mostly fixed this one ... but we are still waiting for replacement for these traits ;)

* **etc.**: _So that no one is unhappy_

 

Besides there are of course good designs which could be pushed forwards:

* **The general gw2 combat system**, overall very fun. People like me keep criticizing the game but, if we are still active, it is because most of it is actually great.

* **Combo fields** : quite forgotten since HoT (besides the smoke field) due to powercreep, the idea behind that is actually great. Convert an important damage skill to get more healing from a water field ? Sweet sweet!

* **etc.**: _So that no one is unhappy_

 

Note: The skill/classes I use as examples are exactly that: **examples** , and not a "QQ nerf this, I want others' build to perform less efficiently so I could farm more people".