Do something about revenant or some of your PvP community will give up this season

[DoNotDisturb.5321]

Well. This is coming from a rev main now:

Yes rev is really favored right now, why? Cause it's easy? Cause it's broken? No. Condi rev yeah sure I agree its a bit busted on the sustain. However what people fail to mention is that you need to know what you're doing on rev. Rev is a high skill high reward kind of class. Condi build is more forgiving for newer players there is no arguing in that. I have no problem as power rev to kill condi revs, even tho power rev struggles way harder with condis the condi rev even if we are the same level mechanically. But that also means when i go condi i an literally an unkillable God. Why? Cause I abuse? Cause its broken busted way to op? No. Its cause I know how to play rev, I know how to kite and I know when to pressure people. If everyone plays like this ofc the player is gonna have easy time on crev. Sure we could argue how big sustain condi rev has. But what about other classes like core necro as an example? If I were to go for example theif it would take way to long to kill it. (This is also a reason necro was meta in 2v2 and thief wasn't) in my "professional" opinion without trying to defend my class here, i think you all need to chill cause you can still outplay condi revs if you have at least 5 brain cells.

Let's not also forget what would happen if condi rev was removed? Then it would be really hard for players to survive this meta as rev unless they're "decent".

Also personally I will still play rev whether its nerfed or not, cause I'm not a noob, I can just win my games by rotating +1s

[soul.6527]

@"AlternativeDawn.1867" i mean low skill/high reward cause last competitive 5v5 season I got a friend who never played gw2 to duo with me and I put him on condi herald and told him to go to the node that is on the opposite side of the map to our home node and I played d/p daredevil and we got plat 2 for majority of the season sadly I was the only one who stayed in plat 2 cause he tried to play few games solo.

 

After thought to mention this was on NA

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Allarius.5670" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> > > >

> > > > that would make sense but you know, rev is even more broken then it was before, its not like they left it as it is since its "good" they also nerfed everything else to the point where rev became even better. Where the fast patches at? every single team runs rev and untill rev becomes a CHOICE for a comp and not absolute must the quote will be posted and laughed at, and its not like rev brings some unique aspect that no other class can bring like thief.

> > > > Thief has mechanical reasons to ALWAYS be 1 in each team, rev is just busted.

> > > > So ya, untill then, buckle up buckaroo cuz Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > >

> > > Let's not pretend thief being mandatory is acceptable, though. It's all about enabling player choice, right? So until thief becomes optional, something still isn't quite right. This doesn't necessarily mean thief itself is the issue, just it being mandatory is. :)

> >

> > maybe if thief had competition for roaming role it wouldnt be mandatory, but as it stands whos gonna do it?

> > ranger/holo too slow and too easy to escape from +1, mesmer is hardcountered by thief so thats out of the gate too.

> > the only thing that can compare is rev but thief is just faster,safer and more fool proof.

>

> So whats the problem with rev if thief is simply better?

> Besides nerf rev so its becomes a choice, keep thief as mandatory cuz muh mechanics? Typical double standards

 

it supplements thief and is much better in teamfights, watch mota qualifiers and how revs were rolling misha fb, power rev isnt much of a problem really, its slightly stronger then it needs to be. if anything other crap needs to be buffed to power rev levels.

[DoNotDisturb.5321]

> @"soul.6527" said:

> @"AlternativeDawn.1867" i mean low skill/high reward cause last competitive 5v5 season I got a friend who never played gw2 to duo with me and I put him on condi herald and told him to go to the node that is on the opposite side of the map to our home node and I played d/p daredevil and we got plat 2 for majority of the season sadly I was the only one who stayed in plat 2 cause he tried to play few games solo.

>

> After thought to mention this was on NA

 

As i said my man, crev is more forgiving for newer players but rev overall is a high skill high reward class. :) i play EU, the only difference really i noticed btween being on NA is that p1-p2s there rotate like pepegas (no offense meant) and i was there for 1 and a half season. As long as u can rotate with rev and survive/kite u can carry msot games no matter build, same for theif :3

[Emapudapus.1307]

Op or not, the games with no rev on either side are much more diverse and more enjoyable. Introduction of rev was biggest anet mistake.

[mixxed.5862]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

>

> Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

 

Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

 

(edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

 

I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> >

> > Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

>

> Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

>

> (edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

>

> I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

 

"This class is winning and performing very well but that's just because only GOOD players are playing it" is hilariously backwards line of thinking regardless of when it was said. Top players will play whatever is meta, and they did and still are playing Revenant because it is meta not because of any special attachment to the profession per say, and that quote is really only one balance patch ago.

[soul.6527]

@"AlternativeDawn.1867" i honestly don’t think the context fits the message imo. The point I am getting from this is that something of high skill that is forgiving to new players gives high rewards. I would much better understand it if it’s low base skill level and high skill cap that gives good rewards cause something of pure high skill generally is hard for newer players such as one shot chrono was back in the day. Yes a decent player can land a one shot but they can’t use it as optimally when compared to a player that is very much one of the best at the class a decent player would never even have a chance of getting a dodge off before being deleted.

 

As well the point I was making with my original one was even on NA why is it except able for a player to be playing the game for 10 days and be on the high end of the rank spectrum even for it being NA.

[mixxed.5862]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> > >

> > > Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

> >

> > Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

> >

> > (edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

> >

> > I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

>

> "This class is winning and performing very well but that's just because only GOOD players are playing it" is hilariously backwards line of thinking regardless of when it was said. Top players will play whatever is meta, and they did and still are playing Revenant because it is meta not because of any special attachment to the profession per say, and that quote is really only one balance patch ago.

 

Maybe you should read the post again that you're referring to. I'll copy it here for you:

 

> @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

>

> Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

 

He doesn't say at all what you claim. He says the best players favored power rev more. Which was factual at the time. After all it's always the same couple of players that win the mAT - no matter what comp they're playing. So, why did they favor it? Because it's the best build around or just because they liked playing it more? He says in the very next sentence - so you don't misunderstand - that rev is "definitely strong" and is being reevaluated.

As we all know today that resulted in nerfs to revenant across the board like the removal of stunbreaks on legend swap, less endurance regeneration, higher energy costs on utility skills, nerfs to might/boon stacking and of course the blanket power coefficient nerfs. All good changes which brought power rev more in line and even made it more skillful. Although it still needs some more changes now.

 

The current state of condi rev however is entirely unrelated to Cal's post from half a year ago. That build clearly is favored by monkeys.

 

**Tldr;** If you read just the one sentence right after the one you keep "citing", you're entire argument falls flat.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> > > >

> > > > Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

> > >

> > > Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

> > >

> > > (edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

> > >

> > > I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

> >

> > "This class is winning and performing very well but that's just because only GOOD players are playing it" is hilariously backwards line of thinking regardless of when it was said. Top players will play whatever is meta, and they did and still are playing Revenant because it is meta not because of any special attachment to the profession per say, and that quote is really only one balance patch ago.

>

> Maybe you should read the post again that you're referring to. I'll copy it here for you:

>

> > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

> >

> > Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

>

> He doesn't say at all what you claim. He says the best players favor power rev. Which was factual at the time. After all it's always the same couple of players that win the mAT - no matter what comp they're playing. So, why did they favor it? Because it's the best build around or just because they liked playing it more? He says in the very next sentence - so you don't misunderstand - that rev is "definitely strong" and is being reevaluated.

> As we all know today that resulted in nerfs to revenant across the board like the removal of stunbreaks on legend swap, less endurance regeneration, higher energy costs on utility skills, nerfs to might/boon stacking and of course the blanket power coefficient nerfs. All good changes which brought power rev more in line and even made it more skillful. Although it needs some more changes now.

>

> The current state of condi rev however is entirely unrelated to Cal's post from half a year ago. That build clearly is favored by monkeys.

>

> **Tldr;** If you read just the one sentence right after the one you keep "citing", you're entire argument falls flat.

 

You've got it backwards, just like he did. The best players didn't FAVOR rev. Rev was picked by the best players because at that point in the game after super charging the Sword Off hand skills and nerfing the most prominent counters to rev it made Revenant hands down the best class in the game for a variety of roles, specifically both Team Fight Damage and +1 Roamer.

 

Revenant spent a huge chunk of Path of Fire largely considered unviable in high end play. Considered even worse than Water Weaver. At which point it was abandoned by players both high end and low end. It's not that rev appealed to high end players who stuck through it through thick and thin. High end players realized the necessity of it after it's buffs and gravitated towards it. Just like we're seeing now.

 

That you've bunkered down defending said delusional quote only goes to show how delusional you are in turn.

[mixxed.5862]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > > > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > > > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

> > > >

> > > > Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

> > > >

> > > > (edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

> > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

> > > >

> > > > I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

> > >

> > > "This class is winning and performing very well but that's just because only GOOD players are playing it" is hilariously backwards line of thinking regardless of when it was said. Top players will play whatever is meta, and they did and still are playing Revenant because it is meta not because of any special attachment to the profession per say, and that quote is really only one balance patch ago.

> >

> > Maybe you should read the post again that you're referring to. I'll copy it here for you:

> >

> > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

> > >

> > > Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

> >

> > He doesn't say at all what you claim. He says the best players favor power rev. Which was factual at the time. After all it's always the same couple of players that win the mAT - no matter what comp they're playing. So, why did they favor it? Because it's the best build around or just because they liked playing it more? He says in the very next sentence - so you don't misunderstand - that rev is "definitely strong" and is being reevaluated.

> > As we all know today that resulted in nerfs to revenant across the board like the removal of stunbreaks on legend swap, less endurance regeneration, higher energy costs on utility skills, nerfs to might/boon stacking and of course the blanket power coefficient nerfs. All good changes which brought power rev more in line and even made it more skillful. Although it needs some more changes now.

> >

> > The current state of condi rev however is entirely unrelated to Cal's post from half a year ago. That build clearly is favored by monkeys.

> >

> > **Tldr;** If you read just the one sentence right after the one you keep "citing", you're entire argument falls flat.

>

> You've got it backwards, just like he did. The best players didn't FAVOR rev. Rev was picked by the best players because at that point in the game after super charging the Sword Off hand skills and nerfing the most prominent counters to rev it made Revenant hands down the best class in the game for a variety of roles, specifically both Team Fight Damage and +1 Roamer.

>

> Revenant spent a huge chunk of Path of Fire largely considered unviable in high end play. Considered even worse than Water Weaver. At which point it was abandoned by players both high end and low end. It's not that rev appealed to high end players who stuck through it through thick and thin. High end players realized the necessity of it after it's buffs and gravitated towards it. Just like we're seeing now.

 

You're correct, although some of the best players still stuck with power rev throughout all of PoF. Because it's fun. Obviously later on the devs came to the conclusion it was in fact overperforming now, and not simply a community favorite anymore. That's why it received many nerfs.

 

So, in light of that, I don't understand why you're so obsessed with that quote. Because he didn't say "yes, rev's kitten broken and we'll nerf it"? Instead of "rev was favored by the best players this mAT but that doesn't necessitate a nerf by itself, we'll reevaluate revenant ourselves"? Yes, the quote's funny when taken out of context. But I think it's a little immature to use it for your agenda against the devs.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > > > > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > > > > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

> > > > >

> > > > > (edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

> > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

> > > >

> > > > "This class is winning and performing very well but that's just because only GOOD players are playing it" is hilariously backwards line of thinking regardless of when it was said. Top players will play whatever is meta, and they did and still are playing Revenant because it is meta not because of any special attachment to the profession per say, and that quote is really only one balance patch ago.

> > >

> > > Maybe you should read the post again that you're referring to. I'll copy it here for you:

> > >

> > > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > > Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

> > > >

> > > > Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

> > >

> > > He doesn't say at all what you claim. He says the best players favor power rev. Which was factual at the time. After all it's always the same couple of players that win the mAT - no matter what comp they're playing. So, why did they favor it? Because it's the best build around or just because they liked playing it more? He says in the very next sentence - so you don't misunderstand - that rev is "definitely strong" and is being reevaluated.

> > > As we all know today that resulted in nerfs to revenant across the board like the removal of stunbreaks on legend swap, less endurance regeneration, higher energy costs on utility skills, nerfs to might/boon stacking and of course the blanket power coefficient nerfs. All good changes which brought power rev more in line and even made it more skillful. Although it needs some more changes now.

> > >

> > > The current state of condi rev however is entirely unrelated to Cal's post from half a year ago. That build clearly is favored by monkeys.

> > >

> > > **Tldr;** If you read just the one sentence right after the one you keep "citing", you're entire argument falls flat.

> >

> > You've got it backwards, just like he did. The best players didn't FAVOR rev. Rev was picked by the best players because at that point in the game after super charging the Sword Off hand skills and nerfing the most prominent counters to rev it made Revenant hands down the best class in the game for a variety of roles, specifically both Team Fight Damage and +1 Roamer.

> >

> > Revenant spent a huge chunk of Path of Fire largely considered unviable in high end play. Considered even worse than Water Weaver. At which point it was abandoned by players both high end and low end. It's not that rev appealed to high end players who stuck through it through thick and thin. High end players realized the necessity of it after it's buffs and gravitated towards it. Just like we're seeing now.

>

> You're correct, although some of the best players still stuck with power rev throughout all of PoF. Because it's fun. Obviously later on the devs came to the conclusion it was in fact overperforming now, and not simply a community favorite anymore. That's why it received many nerfs.

>

> So, in light of that, I don't understand why you're so obsessed with that quote. Because he didn't say "yes, rev's kitten broken and we'll nerf it"? Instead of "rev was favored by the best players this mAT but that doesn't necessitate a nerf by itself, we'll reevaluate revenant ourselves"? Yes, the quote's funny when taken out of context. But I think it's a little immature to use it for your agenda against the devs.

 

For starters in context with what it is responding to the quote reads "Double firebrand both teams is a problem but double revenant on both teams isn't because rev players are just that good"

 

Perhaps said dev should have applied the same logic to Firebrand that they promised adjustments in that same post?

 

And no, players who preferred rev, which are a real section of player were not stacking double herald to win MATs. It was only when rev was truly busted in context of the meta shifting around it that we started seeing rev stacking.

 

And yes the quote is hilarious.

[dronte.3416]

I don't think mobility of condi rev is that good. If you are talking about condi, that is.

[mixxed.5862]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > > > > > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > > > > > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

> > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

> > > > >

> > > > > "This class is winning and performing very well but that's just because only GOOD players are playing it" is hilariously backwards line of thinking regardless of when it was said. Top players will play whatever is meta, and they did and still are playing Revenant because it is meta not because of any special attachment to the profession per say, and that quote is really only one balance patch ago.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe you should read the post again that you're referring to. I'll copy it here for you:

> > > >

> > > > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > > > Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

> > > > >

> > > > > Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

> > > >

> > > > He doesn't say at all what you claim. He says the best players favor power rev. Which was factual at the time. After all it's always the same couple of players that win the mAT - no matter what comp they're playing. So, why did they favor it? Because it's the best build around or just because they liked playing it more? He says in the very next sentence - so you don't misunderstand - that rev is "definitely strong" and is being reevaluated.

> > > > As we all know today that resulted in nerfs to revenant across the board like the removal of stunbreaks on legend swap, less endurance regeneration, higher energy costs on utility skills, nerfs to might/boon stacking and of course the blanket power coefficient nerfs. All good changes which brought power rev more in line and even made it more skillful. Although it needs some more changes now.

> > > >

> > > > The current state of condi rev however is entirely unrelated to Cal's post from half a year ago. That build clearly is favored by monkeys.

> > > >

> > > > **Tldr;** If you read just the one sentence right after the one you keep "citing", you're entire argument falls flat.

> > >

> > > You've got it backwards, just like he did. The best players didn't FAVOR rev. Rev was picked by the best players because at that point in the game after super charging the Sword Off hand skills and nerfing the most prominent counters to rev it made Revenant hands down the best class in the game for a variety of roles, specifically both Team Fight Damage and +1 Roamer.

> > >

> > > Revenant spent a huge chunk of Path of Fire largely considered unviable in high end play. Considered even worse than Water Weaver. At which point it was abandoned by players both high end and low end. It's not that rev appealed to high end players who stuck through it through thick and thin. High end players realized the necessity of it after it's buffs and gravitated towards it. Just like we're seeing now.

> >

> > You're correct, although some of the best players still stuck with power rev throughout all of PoF. Because it's fun. Obviously later on the devs came to the conclusion it was in fact overperforming now, and not simply a community favorite anymore. That's why it received many nerfs.

> >

> > So, in light of that, I don't understand why you're so obsessed with that quote. Because he didn't say "yes, rev's kitten broken and we'll nerf it"? Instead of "rev was favored by the best players this mAT but that doesn't necessitate a nerf by itself, we'll reevaluate revenant ourselves"? Yes, the quote's funny when taken out of context. But I think it's a little immature to use it for your agenda against the devs.

>

> For starters in context with what it is responding to the quote reads "Double firebrand both teams is a problem but double revenant on both teams isn't because rev players are just that good"

 

No, it just doesn't. And you can't even misunderstand it that way if you read the very next sentence that follows.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > @"mixxed.5862" said:

> > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > > > The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> > > > > > > > > You guys need to grow up and stop quoting someone without mentioning the context in which the quote was made because this is at best lying, at worse manipulation.

> > > > > > > > > It's like posting a video of chronomancer then complain about how broken it is, whithout mentioning that the video was filmed in 2016.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lol. Okay. The context was "The MAT Final had Double Rev on both teams. I thought balance was supposed to increase class diversity and representation?" to which CMC replied with that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Correct, and that was what? Over half a year ago?! Back then the condi revenant builds that are problematic now didn't even exist! It was power rev all the way and that got nerfed hard in february - with all the other powercreeped kitten. Power rev indeed requires some skill to play decently (although it's still overperforming).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > (edit) I dug it up, here's a link to the thread:

> > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1099919#Comment_1099919

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I mean sure, it's a nice meme. But complaining incessantly about the developers while citing something that's hardly relevant today and is not at all applicable to the current balance of the revenant profession just to make a dev look bad... that's ridiculous.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "This class is winning and performing very well but that's just because only GOOD players are playing it" is hilariously backwards line of thinking regardless of when it was said. Top players will play whatever is meta, and they did and still are playing Revenant because it is meta not because of any special attachment to the profession per say, and that quote is really only one balance patch ago.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe you should read the post again that you're referring to. I'll copy it here for you:

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > > > > Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win the monthly. With that said it's definitely strong, and it's on our watch list following the next balance update along with symbol firebrand and weaver. Essentially we're going to keep a close eye on the meta builds that aren't seeing any changes, but we want to see how the new meta shakes out first. Like I've said previously, we have the opportunity to make additional changes outside of the usual balance cadence if something terrible happens.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Support firebrand is more of a big picture issue. It's definitely the dominant support build, which pushes out some other builds that just don't bring as much to the table. This is something we're looking at for the larger update, but isn't really solvable with a few quick changes in the short-term. There are some shaves we can do if support fb is overperforming relative to the power of the meta, but it's likely to continue being the best support build for the time being.

> > > > >

> > > > > He doesn't say at all what you claim. He says the best players favor power rev. Which was factual at the time. After all it's always the same couple of players that win the mAT - no matter what comp they're playing. So, why did they favor it? Because it's the best build around or just because they liked playing it more? He says in the very next sentence - so you don't misunderstand - that rev is "definitely strong" and is being reevaluated.

> > > > > As we all know today that resulted in nerfs to revenant across the board like the removal of stunbreaks on legend swap, less endurance regeneration, higher energy costs on utility skills, nerfs to might/boon stacking and of course the blanket power coefficient nerfs. All good changes which brought power rev more in line and even made it more skillful. Although it needs some more changes now.

> > > > >

> > > > > The current state of condi rev however is entirely unrelated to Cal's post from half a year ago. That build clearly is favored by monkeys.

> > > > >

> > > > > **Tldr;** If you read just the one sentence right after the one you keep "citing", you're entire argument falls flat.

> > > >

> > > > You've got it backwards, just like he did. The best players didn't FAVOR rev. Rev was picked by the best players because at that point in the game after super charging the Sword Off hand skills and nerfing the most prominent counters to rev it made Revenant hands down the best class in the game for a variety of roles, specifically both Team Fight Damage and +1 Roamer.

> > > >

> > > > Revenant spent a huge chunk of Path of Fire largely considered unviable in high end play. Considered even worse than Water Weaver. At which point it was abandoned by players both high end and low end. It's not that rev appealed to high end players who stuck through it through thick and thin. High end players realized the necessity of it after it's buffs and gravitated towards it. Just like we're seeing now.

> > >

> > > You're correct, although some of the best players still stuck with power rev throughout all of PoF. Because it's fun. Obviously later on the devs came to the conclusion it was in fact overperforming now, and not simply a community favorite anymore. That's why it received many nerfs.

> > >

> > > So, in light of that, I don't understand why you're so obsessed with that quote. Because he didn't say "yes, rev's kitten broken and we'll nerf it"? Instead of "rev was favored by the best players this mAT but that doesn't necessitate a nerf by itself, we'll reevaluate revenant ourselves"? Yes, the quote's funny when taken out of context. But I think it's a little immature to use it for your agenda against the devs.

> >

> > For starters in context with what it is responding to the quote reads "Double firebrand both teams is a problem but double revenant on both teams isn't because rev players are just that good"

>

> No, it just doesn't. And you can't even misunderstand it that way if you read the very next sentence that follows.

 

Keep licking that boot buddy.

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Top players will play whatever is meta.

 

Unless you make a "class X beats Y but is beaten by Z", you'll always have 1 class slightly better than all the other and see it prominently. Which mean nerf/buff would just be artificially forcing the top players to switch to a different class once in a while just to fudge statistics. Restricting to 1 class per team would achieve almost the same result.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > By giving up I mean either we change to rev or play 1 match every day

> > reduce its damage or sustain or mobility not all make it playable but not a God

>

> Specify. What do you want shaved from damage, sustain or mobility?

>

> We talking Condi, power, or both? We talking any specific legend/spec?

 

Sustain is the most one I want to have some shave if not that then mobility second

The damage nowadays is too low for such sustain kity dps build

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > By giving up I mean either we change to rev or play 1 match every day

> > > reduce its damage or sustain or mobility not all make it playable but not a God

> >

> > Specify. What do you want shaved from damage, sustain or mobility?

> >

> > We talking Condi, power, or both? We talking any specific legend/spec?

>

> Sustain is the most one I want to have some shave if not that then mobility second

> The damage nowadays is too low for such sustain kity dps build

>

 

What do you want off mobility?

 

What do you want off sustain?

 

Why?

 

For you people wanting infused light to be shaved, do you really want to give it a flat heal? If you just want to shave the uptime, are you prepared to make stunbreaks/active mitigation more accessible? the heals on shiro/glint are both incredibly situational and can, in worst cases, give less than 3k heal.

 

I'm not on board with this, but if you all can prove it's broken instead of just being big mad because CmC said something controversial, then fair enough. There's been worse than this in game, though. Firebrand -remains- worse than this, even post nerf.

 

 

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > By giving up I mean either we change to rev or play 1 match every day

> > > > reduce its damage or sustain or mobility not all make it playable but not a God

> > >

> > > Specify. What do you want shaved from damage, sustain or mobility?

> > >

> > > We talking Condi, power, or both? We talking any specific legend/spec?

> >

> > Sustain is the most one I want to have some shave if not that then mobility second

> > The damage nowadays is too low for such sustain kity dps build

> >

>

> What do you want off mobility?

>

> What do you want off sustain?

>

> Why?

>

> For you people wanting infused light to be shaved, do you really want to give it a flat heal? If you just want to shave the uptime, are you prepared to make stunbreaks/active mitigation more accessible? the heals on shiro/glint are both incredibly situational and can, in worst cases, give less than 3k heal.

>

> I'm not on board with this, but if you all can prove it's broken instead of just being big mad because CmC said something controversial, then fair enough. There's been worse than this in game, though. Firebrand -remains- worse than this, even post nerf.

>

>

 

Aa shave will be a cast time more than half a second simple as that

[Shao.7236]

@"Azure The Heartless.3261"

 

This vicious circle with Herald Condition is pretty funny.

 

Let's just say they actually re-worked Glint the way I personally see it. Having an Anti-Burst rather than Defiant Stance copy paste, how will people take it when they still full heal Heralds because they are too dense to play around it?

 

Power is definitely going to be at a higher skill ceiling with it while Condition is likely to sit in the same spot because even if they are going to nerf it, the majority won't stop spamming and surely won't stop playing Condition even though the reason why Herald Condition is so strong is not just because of it's F2 radius that is in need of a nerf but the fact that everyone plays Condition and everyone just spams and call it a day, they're only making it worst by doing so.

 

Mallyx damage is weak, players fail to realize that they die by their own damage because that's how Mallyx is designed, prodding it with damage that can't be used to it's advantage is something that doesn't get into perspective easily it seems.

[Shiyo.3578]

Glint heal needs to put a big obvious blue bubble around the rev. Staring at buff bars is very unfun and bad gameplay.

[Math.5123]

Honestly, just either move the cast time to the heal activate rather than the upkeep, or make glint heal channeled.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Glint heal needs to put a big obvious blue bubble around the rev. Staring at buff bars is very unfun and bad gameplay.

A minimal demand for awareness (predict when it will be used) and mechanical skill (stow your damn weapon in time!) on the attacker side is intended because this is still a heal and not a simple block. Denying the healing skill is a game changer! Making its cast so obvious that every noob can avoid it, is too much.

 

I don't need to stare at the buff bar to notice when its activated. It's obvious enough.

 

That skill is a classical noob filter. I am suffering from it more often than not because my dumb teammates unload their bursts into it, but that's neither the skill's nor the revenant's fault.

[fumcheg.1936]

I> @"KrHome.1920" said:

>neither the skill's nor the revenant's fault.

 

yes that's a developers fault

[Tinkerer.2167]

most of the people here don't actually play top level pvp, quote sindrener's stream to act intelligent on the pvp topic then continue to demand nerfs for everything except their own class. only good at complaining about stuff and thinking their opinion matters when gw2 will just balance whatever they want anyway.

 

mostly leonidrex but 99% of the forums are like this. literal trashlords at the game but actually just not really good.

 

this is why top players barely post in the forums. it's a waste of time that you could be practicing and getting better instead of debating or trying to reason with people who have 0 top level iq in pvp meta.

 

pvp is about optimal performance, not you having fun playing the class like you like. unfortunately.

 

if you don't understand that is with any pvp game in the top level when first starting out then you probably shouldn't pvp. focus on multi-classing and getting better instead of complaining about every class except your own.

 

when they balance again while also not taking any of your complaints into consideration and doing whatever they want, top players will once again adapt to the metas, and you shitlords will still be in here complaining non-stop instead of doing the same.