Teratus.2859 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > I'm a bit annoyed about Vampiric Rituals being changed.. > > > > > > I have a Sustain based Wellmancer build that used it and that extra lifesteal + 5 sec protection I got per well was really useful to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blood Bank better be an exceptionally good trait because I liked Wells and without Vampiric Rituals they are going to be pretty kitten kitten now. > > > > > Unfortunetly bloodbank is a slap in the face for sustain minion necros in PvE (blood isnt that often used otherwise). I mean the very point is being able to sustain damage but you're gonna drop below 100. From what I gather of the trait... it does not heal at all anymore nor provide any damage. Is the barrier "permanent"? Does it have a short lifespan? Does it have a cap? Who knows, but it doesnt sound alltogether usefull - I mean if you got max hp... why do you need barrier on top? I can only imagine it good for raiding where someone else does the heavy healing, *if* its still AoE for your allies like vampiric is (ie barrier half the raid as long as there is a healer too to keep pumping in the heals)... If it's just the player, then worthless. > > > > > > > > Yeah.. Regen won't effect it so I assume Lifesteal also won't so for minion builds the trait is completely useless since you'll never be able to activate it unless you got a Druid healing you or something. > > > > If Lifesteal does effect it then chances are it will need a CD, duration or a Max barrier cap or MM's could build up essentially infinite Hp with barrier lol > > > > Most barrier only lasts 5 seconds so chances are Lifesteal isn't going to contribute to it all that much.. unless each lifesteal refreshes the duration of the barrier hence the need for a cap or CD. > > > > > > [barrier](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier): > > > >. It creates a health barrier that takes damage prior to the health bar. Barrier disappears 5 seconds after being applied. Applying a barrier while one is already active will add to it, **but the previously-existing barrier will still disappear 5 seconds after it was originally applied.** The amount of barrier generated is based on the source's healing power, and **is capped at 50% of the recipient's maximum health.** > > > > > > > > > > Yeah hence why lifesteal will not usefully contribute to it unless it can refresh the duration.. tons of mini hp barriers on 5 second durations is going to be pretty trash. > > And if it did refresh the duration it would be far too OP allowing Necros to stack up an extra 15K+ Barrier and sustain it pretty easily. > > > > So yeah.. this trait is useless to a decent amount of Necro builds imo.. at least far less useful than Vampiric Rituals was. > > I don't think its any more or less useful that VR was but its a lot more interesting to me. I'm just waiting to see how it interacts with shroud when you're at max hp because you still get healing in shroud you just don't benefit from it. Like how the rune of sanctuary still generates barrier for you. > > Well from what I'm thinking it feels more selfish.. if the Barrier only applies to the player and not the group which I think it will. In that regard it is less useful than VR since that at least give out some party protection and had some nice synergy with Ritual of Life. Transfusion is always going to win over this new trait though if it doesn't do group barrier, but im also thinking that you won't really get to make the most of this new trait outside of groups anyway since you'll need a druid or something around to keep you pumping that barrier up so it kinda feels like another selfish trait Necros can take at the expense of the group which kinda sucks since Necros often get criticized for being a selfish class anyway. It will feel bad to loose a trait with group support for one that's entirely self serving, if anything Necro needs more group support potential. Perhaps shroud healing will contribute.. but I dunno, I've never really built for shroud healing, never seemed worth it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > I'm a bit annoyed about Vampiric Rituals being changed.. > > > > > > > I have a Sustain based Wellmancer build that used it and that extra lifesteal + 5 sec protection I got per well was really useful to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blood Bank better be an exceptionally good trait because I liked Wells and without Vampiric Rituals they are going to be pretty kitten kitten now. > > > > > > Unfortunetly bloodbank is a slap in the face for sustain minion necros in PvE (blood isnt that often used otherwise). I mean the very point is being able to sustain damage but you're gonna drop below 100. From what I gather of the trait... it does not heal at all anymore nor provide any damage. Is the barrier "permanent"? Does it have a short lifespan? Does it have a cap? Who knows, but it doesnt sound alltogether usefull - I mean if you got max hp... why do you need barrier on top? I can only imagine it good for raiding where someone else does the heavy healing, *if* its still AoE for your allies like vampiric is (ie barrier half the raid as long as there is a healer too to keep pumping in the heals)... If it's just the player, then worthless. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah.. Regen won't effect it so I assume Lifesteal also won't so for minion builds the trait is completely useless since you'll never be able to activate it unless you got a Druid healing you or something. > > > > > If Lifesteal does effect it then chances are it will need a CD, duration or a Max barrier cap or MM's could build up essentially infinite Hp with barrier lol > > > > > Most barrier only lasts 5 seconds so chances are Lifesteal isn't going to contribute to it all that much.. unless each lifesteal refreshes the duration of the barrier hence the need for a cap or CD. > > > > > > > > [barrier](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier): > > > > >. It creates a health barrier that takes damage prior to the health bar. Barrier disappears 5 seconds after being applied. Applying a barrier while one is already active will add to it, **but the previously-existing barrier will still disappear 5 seconds after it was originally applied.** The amount of barrier generated is based on the source's healing power, and **is capped at 50% of the recipient's maximum health.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah hence why lifesteal will not usefully contribute to it unless it can refresh the duration.. tons of mini hp barriers on 5 second durations is going to be pretty trash. > > > And if it did refresh the duration it would be far too OP allowing Necros to stack up an extra 15K+ Barrier and sustain it pretty easily. > > > > > > So yeah.. this trait is useless to a decent amount of Necro builds imo.. at least far less useful than Vampiric Rituals was. > > > > I don't think its any more or less useful that VR was but its a lot more interesting to me. I'm just waiting to see how it interacts with shroud when you're at max hp because you still get healing in shroud you just don't benefit from it. Like how the rune of sanctuary still generates barrier for you. > > > > > > Well from what I'm thinking it feels more selfish.. if the Barrier only applies to the player and not the group which I think it will. > In that regard it is less useful than VR since that at least give out some party protection and had some nice synergy with Ritual of Life. > > Transfusion is always going to win over this new trait though if it doesn't do group barrier, but im also thinking that you won't really get to make the most of this new trait outside of groups anyway since you'll need a druid or something around to keep you pumping that barrier up so it kinda feels like another selfish trait Necros can take at the expense of the group which kinda sucks since Necros often get criticized for being a selfish class anyway. > It will feel bad to loose a trait with group support for one that's entirely self serving, if anything Necro needs more group support potential. > > Perhaps shroud healing will contribute.. but I dunno, I've never really built for shroud healing, never seemed worth it tbh. I don't see why there would be any thought that the barrier would apply to the group. I'm also not really talking about the trait in PvE at all. Its real applications are in PvP. You wouldn't take this trait or VR is most cases in PvE as is. In almost all cases transfusion beats it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 As i now have time, ill comment on every single change that is upcoming for necro: Shade Skills: These have been changed back to triggering at both the necromancer's location and their shade locations with each use. - even though i was complaining about it when they introduced the "necro isnt a shade anymore" thing. i think its right now really good, cause theres actually a big difference right now between good and bad scourges. and for wvw its an awful revert Deathly Swarm: Reduced the conditions transferred per target struck from 3 to 2 in PvE only. - why would you nerf a weapon thats not used in pve? btw warrior gets its underused offhand weapons buffed Vampiric Rituals: This trait has been removed and replaced with the trait Blood Bank. Blood Bank: This new trait replaces Vampiric Rituals in the Blood Magic grandmaster slot. It causes healing over your maximum health amount to be converted into barrier. Regeneration effects do not trigger this trait. - i dont know why this change happened. thats basically a spvp only change in my opinion. in pve its useless. some people said "for healscourge op", but thats not the case as you would loose transfusion. so only spvp change: you take a pocket healer/babysitter, for amulett you go full damage and you'll be invincible because your healer will stack tons of barrier on you. if this then also interacts with abrasive grit on scourge, scourge will be immortal as long as your healer is alive. but thats two people that have to move around together. and especially scourge is really slow. so i dont think this will be an good option. but i might be wrong. and then it still comes down to the overhealing to barrier ratio. if its 100% its absolute broken with someone who heals you, and okayish if solo. if its like 10% its absolutely useless for solo and only okayish for duo with healer. Well of Blood: Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds. - slight buff for pve healscourge, but not a buff it needed Ritual of Life: Reduced recharge from 35 seconds to 30 seconds. - same as well of blood change Well of Corruption: Reduced recharge from 40 seconds to 32 seconds. - very bad change for wvw. and doesnt matter much for pve Well of Darkness: Reduced recharge from 35 seconds to 25 seconds. This well is no longer unblockable and has a damaging strike associated with it. It now also inflicts 2 seconds of chill each pulse in addition to blindness. - might be a condi reaper buff, but i dont think itll see much play. maybe in spvp to make a node inaccessible for the enemy? but else... dont see any benefit. but its great anet recognized that this skill isnt used in any gamemode Well of Power: Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds in PvE. Reduced recharge from 40 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW. - nice, but a kind of "whatever"-change Well of Suffering: Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds. - same as well of corruption. very bad change for wvw. for pve this might increase reapers dps a bit. but not by much so,... only a nice to have change Signet of the Locust: In addition to its previous effects, the active ability of this signet now also converts up to 2 boons on struck foes into additional healing. - finally giving a good active effect to this signet. but i doubt it will see any play but ill come back to that later Signet of Vampirism: The passive effect for this skill has been reworked. It now causes the necromancer to steal a small amount of health from a nearby foe every second while in combat. - while this is a buff, its a nerf as well. maybe will see play on wvw reaper and maybe on spvp core necro and maybe in pve dps necro if it does more damage than the minion. but it really depends on the range of the passive. if the passive is like 200 radius, this passive is absolute trash in pvp modes. necro already has a hard time sticking to your target and if its a small range, the biggest necro counter being kiting gets even more effective. as you loose the "get hit get healed" kinda damage reduction passive. Signets of Suffering: This trait has been moved to the master tier and replaces Dread. The enhanced signet effect now only activates when in shroud. The enhanced effect for Signet of the Locust has changed to be a 33% movement speed bonus. The enhanced effect for Signet of Vampirism has changed to increase the number of targets to 2 for the passive life siphon. - so now we can choose between boon remove, more damage from might and the signets trait. plus we have a nerfed version of the signet trait. and i think this change from grandmaster to master tier is the disguise for this nerf. dont get me wrong, its super annyoing to fight core necros in wvw, and this will greatly reduce their power out of shroud. but i dont know. if its a bad trait for the game, why not just retire it? Dread: This trait has been moved to the grandmaster slot previously occupied by Signets of Suffering, and it has been reworked. It now grants 5 seconds of quickness and 10 seconds of fury whenever the necromancer applies fear to an enemy, with a 3-second internal cooldown. Additionally, it reduces the recharge of Shroud skill 3 by 50% whenever an enemy is killed in PvE and PvP, and by 5% in WvW. - spvp change? in open world this trait is absolutely busted. reaper didnt need a buff there (spite is only played on reaper, and some corenecro versions) its a nice change for pvp modes as you can finally get fury and dont have to take curses for that or use a rune. BUT at least in wvw: right now theres running around a lot of condi players. so if you intend to run around solo, the spite traitline is trash as it doesnt offer any condi cleanse. so its basically only useable in group play. but in groups you already get these boons from other party members and i dont know if its worth it to take that trait to just lower the cooldown of one stack of stability on reaper, which is a boon you get from your supporters as well. i think the other two options - more corrupts or more damage - are both a lot better. - endgame pve this is even a nerf to a meme comp that would try to get perma fear on the enemy to make use of the damage multiplier. taking away potential 36k-38k dps and making reaper a "worse than support warrior" build in all points summary: - Overall this patch feels like they didnt put a lot of effort and thinking into. while they added some qol changes and some good changes, i dont think this will affect the current meta. - the 2 biggest changes in my opinion: 1) signet of locust: now removing boons from enemies hit. - pvp change - but i dont think that it is an option to take for scourge or reaper, both have a lot of way better utilities. for scourge you will conitue to use well of suffering, well of corruption, trail of anguish. theres nothing really you can swap out. well of corruption is needed for the corrupts, suffering for damage. so maybe you could swap out trail of anguish, but i dont think thats going to happen as its a stunbreak and corrupts as well and even more targets than the signet if im not mistaken. and on reaper you already have a hard choice to do. well of corruption and corrupting shout is already set, for third utility you most of the time take a stunbreak (shout or spectral walk) and sometimes well of suffering if you have really good supports in your group. 2) well of darkness: i think this will only see play on condi reaper in pve. condi reaper in pvp and wvw isnt good so... now people might think that you might use it still on some meta builds, but it has the same problems as signet of the locust - other utilities are just straight up better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > i don't understand why you guys don't understand why the new gms will be op. > blood bank - yes any heals will give barrier. this is anet. ofc they won't differentiate between the necros heals and everyone elses. If this is the case, then it will be changed to necro self heals only withing one week, because for one week not a single babysitted necro will die. > dread - core power/ condi bunker just got plenty of quickness. scourge just got plenty of quickness. how is this not going to make everyone rage. quickness empowered scepter spam will flood the forums in tears along with the new scourge + tempest duo bunker kings. the recharge will proc often enough in team fights to give reapers a decent survivability increase. path of corruption will be ez quickness uptime. popping an elite with stab will be a death sentence. Look at the traitline this trait is in. Scourge and Core have to pick Spite for the trait and so can not be bunker in the first place. Both have to drop either DM, BM or SR for Spite or even two of these if they are condi requirering Curses. Putting this trait into Spite is one of the few well thought actions of ANet. Every traitline should have options for damage and sustain so that a build can never have all sustain traits or all damage traits at once, because the extremes are always broken in one or another way. And regarding its place in Spite this trait is bad and not worth dropping the other traitlines. That's what I am talking about. I does not grant any value if you look at the overall outcome of a build. What does your Scepter Quickness Scourge run? Spite Curses Scourge? GZ to your sustainless glass canon with two dodges! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > I'm a bit annoyed about Vampiric Rituals being changed.. > > > > > > > > I have a Sustain based Wellmancer build that used it and that extra lifesteal + 5 sec protection I got per well was really useful to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blood Bank better be an exceptionally good trait because I liked Wells and without Vampiric Rituals they are going to be pretty kitten kitten now. > > > > > > > Unfortunetly bloodbank is a slap in the face for sustain minion necros in PvE (blood isnt that often used otherwise). I mean the very point is being able to sustain damage but you're gonna drop below 100. From what I gather of the trait... it does not heal at all anymore nor provide any damage. Is the barrier "permanent"? Does it have a short lifespan? Does it have a cap? Who knows, but it doesnt sound alltogether usefull - I mean if you got max hp... why do you need barrier on top? I can only imagine it good for raiding where someone else does the heavy healing, *if* its still AoE for your allies like vampiric is (ie barrier half the raid as long as there is a healer too to keep pumping in the heals)... If it's just the player, then worthless. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah.. Regen won't effect it so I assume Lifesteal also won't so for minion builds the trait is completely useless since you'll never be able to activate it unless you got a Druid healing you or something. > > > > > > If Lifesteal does effect it then chances are it will need a CD, duration or a Max barrier cap or MM's could build up essentially infinite Hp with barrier lol > > > > > > Most barrier only lasts 5 seconds so chances are Lifesteal isn't going to contribute to it all that much.. unless each lifesteal refreshes the duration of the barrier hence the need for a cap or CD. > > > > > > > > > > [barrier](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier): > > > > > >. It creates a health barrier that takes damage prior to the health bar. Barrier disappears 5 seconds after being applied. Applying a barrier while one is already active will add to it, **but the previously-existing barrier will still disappear 5 seconds after it was originally applied.** The amount of barrier generated is based on the source's healing power, and **is capped at 50% of the recipient's maximum health.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah hence why lifesteal will not usefully contribute to it unless it can refresh the duration.. tons of mini hp barriers on 5 second durations is going to be pretty trash. > > > > And if it did refresh the duration it would be far too OP allowing Necros to stack up an extra 15K+ Barrier and sustain it pretty easily. > > > > > > > > So yeah.. this trait is useless to a decent amount of Necro builds imo.. at least far less useful than Vampiric Rituals was. > > > > > > I don't think its any more or less useful that VR was but its a lot more interesting to me. I'm just waiting to see how it interacts with shroud when you're at max hp because you still get healing in shroud you just don't benefit from it. Like how the rune of sanctuary still generates barrier for you. > > > > > > > > > > Well from what I'm thinking it feels more selfish.. if the Barrier only applies to the player and not the group which I think it will. > > In that regard it is less useful than VR since that at least give out some party protection and had some nice synergy with Ritual of Life. > > > > Transfusion is always going to win over this new trait though if it doesn't do group barrier, but im also thinking that you won't really get to make the most of this new trait outside of groups anyway since you'll need a druid or something around to keep you pumping that barrier up so it kinda feels like another selfish trait Necros can take at the expense of the group which kinda sucks since Necros often get criticized for being a selfish class anyway. > > It will feel bad to loose a trait with group support for one that's entirely self serving, if anything Necro needs more group support potential. > > > > Perhaps shroud healing will contribute.. but I dunno, I've never really built for shroud healing, never seemed worth it tbh. > > I don't see why there would be any thought that the barrier would apply to the group. I'm also not really talking about the trait in PvE at all. Its real applications are in PvP. You wouldn't take this trait or VR is most cases in PvE as is. In almost all cases transfusion beats it out. Because of the protect I guess, VR giving AoE protect was useful for stacking. I agree though I often take Transfusion as well, although if I am using wells, I do go with VR instead for that protection. It's boring having the same traits on multiple characters, fun to spice it up a little and try other skills etc. I don't see how this trait will be all that useful in PvP either tbh, but im not all that keen on sPvP.. WvW I prefer more but that's a whole different animal. Zerg healing in WvW, absolutely can see the benefit but that's about it. Given that Necros are already super strong there I find that the need for this trait isn't warranted at all, loosing VR for a trait almost exclusively useful in WvW seems like a bad trade imo. 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Sigmoid.7082 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > I'm a bit annoyed about Vampiric Rituals being changed.. > > > > > > > > > I have a Sustain based Wellmancer build that used it and that extra lifesteal + 5 sec protection I got per well was really useful to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blood Bank better be an exceptionally good trait because I liked Wells and without Vampiric Rituals they are going to be pretty kitten kitten now. > > > > > > > > Unfortunetly bloodbank is a slap in the face for sustain minion necros in PvE (blood isnt that often used otherwise). I mean the very point is being able to sustain damage but you're gonna drop below 100. From what I gather of the trait... it does not heal at all anymore nor provide any damage. Is the barrier "permanent"? Does it have a short lifespan? Does it have a cap? Who knows, but it doesnt sound alltogether usefull - I mean if you got max hp... why do you need barrier on top? I can only imagine it good for raiding where someone else does the heavy healing, *if* its still AoE for your allies like vampiric is (ie barrier half the raid as long as there is a healer too to keep pumping in the heals)... If it's just the player, then worthless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah.. Regen won't effect it so I assume Lifesteal also won't so for minion builds the trait is completely useless since you'll never be able to activate it unless you got a Druid healing you or something. > > > > > > > If Lifesteal does effect it then chances are it will need a CD, duration or a Max barrier cap or MM's could build up essentially infinite Hp with barrier lol > > > > > > > Most barrier only lasts 5 seconds so chances are Lifesteal isn't going to contribute to it all that much.. unless each lifesteal refreshes the duration of the barrier hence the need for a cap or CD. > > > > > > > > > > > > [barrier](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier): > > > > > > >. It creates a health barrier that takes damage prior to the health bar. Barrier disappears 5 seconds after being applied. Applying a barrier while one is already active will add to it, **but the previously-existing barrier will still disappear 5 seconds after it was originally applied.** The amount of barrier generated is based on the source's healing power, and **is capped at 50% of the recipient's maximum health.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah hence why lifesteal will not usefully contribute to it unless it can refresh the duration.. tons of mini hp barriers on 5 second durations is going to be pretty trash. > > > > > And if it did refresh the duration it would be far too OP allowing Necros to stack up an extra 15K+ Barrier and sustain it pretty easily. > > > > > > > > > > So yeah.. this trait is useless to a decent amount of Necro builds imo.. at least far less useful than Vampiric Rituals was. > > > > > > > > I don't think its any more or less useful that VR was but its a lot more interesting to me. I'm just waiting to see how it interacts with shroud when you're at max hp because you still get healing in shroud you just don't benefit from it. Like how the rune of sanctuary still generates barrier for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well from what I'm thinking it feels more selfish.. if the Barrier only applies to the player and not the group which I think it will. > > > In that regard it is less useful than VR since that at least give out some party protection and had some nice synergy with Ritual of Life. > > > > > > Transfusion is always going to win over this new trait though if it doesn't do group barrier, but im also thinking that you won't really get to make the most of this new trait outside of groups anyway since you'll need a druid or something around to keep you pumping that barrier up so it kinda feels like another selfish trait Necros can take at the expense of the group which kinda sucks since Necros often get criticized for being a selfish class anyway. > > > It will feel bad to loose a trait with group support for one that's entirely self serving, if anything Necro needs more group support potential. > > > > > > Perhaps shroud healing will contribute.. but I dunno, I've never really built for shroud healing, never seemed worth it tbh. > > > > I don't see why there would be any thought that the barrier would apply to the group. I'm also not really talking about the trait in PvE at all. Its real applications are in PvP. You wouldn't take this trait or VR is most cases in PvE as is. In almost all cases transfusion beats it out. > > Because of the protect I guess, VR giving AoE protect was useful for stacking. > I agree though I often take Transfusion as well, although if I am using wells, I do go with VR instead for that protection. > It's boring having the same traits on multiple characters, fun to spice it up a little and try other skills etc. > > I don't see how this trait will be all that useful in PvP either tbh, but im not all that keen on sPvP.. WvW I prefer more but that's a whole different animal. > Zerg healing in WvW, absolutely can see the benefit but that's about it. > Given that Necros are already super strong there I find that the need for this trait isn't warranted at all, loosing VR for a trait almost exclusively useful in WvW seems like a bad trade imo. It's going to be useful outside of WvW and like I said in particular in PvP. You admittedly said you aren't keen on it and that's probably why you can't see its value. But you're wrong to say it's almost exclusively useful in WvW. Depending on how it functions exactly it will be very oppressive. Especially the more organized and higher tier the play is. Having stronger baseline wells is decent and the new well of darkness is going to be pretty interesting too due to it doing damage and the returned , and now innate, synergy with bitter chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowmoon.7986 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Condi reaper might now be the better condi dps spec after this change. Well of darkness will now put out 14 bleeding stacks with proper traits. Power reaper might get another 1k for dps, well of suffering cd was what kept it in aa land for so long after its rotation. Now gs4 5, shroud 4 and well all have the same cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Blood Bank seems like a trap to me. It might be okay for Scourge but I'm not sure. New Dread is good, turns flipping Stability into even more betterer flipping Stability. It contests Spiteful Spirit though and I think Spiteful Spirit is probably more useful in most circumstances. Well changes are tasty. Well of Darkness applying Chill makes it really appealing for condi reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 > The necromancer traits for signets and wells have long occupied a difficult place in most builds since they exist on the grandmaster tier and typically have not provided enough power to warrant taking over other grandmaster traits. That's what made me laugh the most. And then they make the _signet of suffering_ compete with _awaken the pain_. Best. Joke. Ever! _Blood bank_ is an open PvE hazard coupled with the GS trait (I guess it's not that important) and an abomination in WvW if you're backed by a healer. Maybe even in PvP. _Well of darkness_... That's gonna be a liability especially if ANet think that it's worth was it's unblockable feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I am a happy Necro. My baby is back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhaid Zhem.6508 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 I don't see real use to the new dread. In fact the actual version seems better in my opinion, for all modes. May be for reaper to play the boon thing over Repaer's Onslaught but even that you need to break your shroud armor #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > > > > I'm a bit annoyed about Vampiric Rituals being changed.. > > > > > > > > > > I have a Sustain based Wellmancer build that used it and that extra lifesteal + 5 sec protection I got per well was really useful to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blood Bank better be an exceptionally good trait because I liked Wells and without Vampiric Rituals they are going to be pretty kitten kitten now. > > > > > > > > > Unfortunetly bloodbank is a slap in the face for sustain minion necros in PvE (blood isnt that often used otherwise). I mean the very point is being able to sustain damage but you're gonna drop below 100. From what I gather of the trait... it does not heal at all anymore nor provide any damage. Is the barrier "permanent"? Does it have a short lifespan? Does it have a cap? Who knows, but it doesnt sound alltogether usefull - I mean if you got max hp... why do you need barrier on top? I can only imagine it good for raiding where someone else does the heavy healing, *if* its still AoE for your allies like vampiric is (ie barrier half the raid as long as there is a healer too to keep pumping in the heals)... If it's just the player, then worthless. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah.. Regen won't effect it so I assume Lifesteal also won't so for minion builds the trait is completely useless since you'll never be able to activate it unless you got a Druid healing you or something. > > > > > > > > If Lifesteal does effect it then chances are it will need a CD, duration or a Max barrier cap or MM's could build up essentially infinite Hp with barrier lol > > > > > > > > Most barrier only lasts 5 seconds so chances are Lifesteal isn't going to contribute to it all that much.. unless each lifesteal refreshes the duration of the barrier hence the need for a cap or CD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [barrier](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier): > > > > > > > >. It creates a health barrier that takes damage prior to the health bar. Barrier disappears 5 seconds after being applied. Applying a barrier while one is already active will add to it, **but the previously-existing barrier will still disappear 5 seconds after it was originally applied.** The amount of barrier generated is based on the source's healing power, and **is capped at 50% of the recipient's maximum health.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah hence why lifesteal will not usefully contribute to it unless it can refresh the duration.. tons of mini hp barriers on 5 second durations is going to be pretty trash. > > > > > > And if it did refresh the duration it would be far too OP allowing Necros to stack up an extra 15K+ Barrier and sustain it pretty easily. > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah.. this trait is useless to a decent amount of Necro builds imo.. at least far less useful than Vampiric Rituals was. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think its any more or less useful that VR was but its a lot more interesting to me. I'm just waiting to see how it interacts with shroud when you're at max hp because you still get healing in shroud you just don't benefit from it. Like how the rune of sanctuary still generates barrier for you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well from what I'm thinking it feels more selfish.. if the Barrier only applies to the player and not the group which I think it will. > > > > In that regard it is less useful than VR since that at least give out some party protection and had some nice synergy with Ritual of Life. > > > > > > > > Transfusion is always going to win over this new trait though if it doesn't do group barrier, but im also thinking that you won't really get to make the most of this new trait outside of groups anyway since you'll need a druid or something around to keep you pumping that barrier up so it kinda feels like another selfish trait Necros can take at the expense of the group which kinda sucks since Necros often get criticized for being a selfish class anyway. > > > > It will feel bad to loose a trait with group support for one that's entirely self serving, if anything Necro needs more group support potential. > > > > > > > > Perhaps shroud healing will contribute.. but I dunno, I've never really built for shroud healing, never seemed worth it tbh. > > > > > > I don't see why there would be any thought that the barrier would apply to the group. I'm also not really talking about the trait in PvE at all. Its real applications are in PvP. You wouldn't take this trait or VR is most cases in PvE as is. In almost all cases transfusion beats it out. > > > > Because of the protect I guess, VR giving AoE protect was useful for stacking. > > I agree though I often take Transfusion as well, although if I am using wells, I do go with VR instead for that protection. > > It's boring having the same traits on multiple characters, fun to spice it up a little and try other skills etc. > > > > I don't see how this trait will be all that useful in PvP either tbh, but im not all that keen on sPvP.. WvW I prefer more but that's a whole different animal. > > Zerg healing in WvW, absolutely can see the benefit but that's about it. > > Given that Necros are already super strong there I find that the need for this trait isn't warranted at all, loosing VR for a trait almost exclusively useful in WvW seems like a bad trade imo. > > It's going to be useful outside of WvW and like I said in particular in PvP. You admittedly said you aren't keen on it and that's probably why you can't see its value. But you're wrong to say it's almost exclusively useful in WvW. > Yes, admittedly I can't see it. I get the whole WvW zerg healing potential for it but Spvp doesn't have the same level of healing income from other people, least i've never experienced anything like that in the times I did play a bit of it. I can't see the trait being all that useful for Necro's to self sustain, specially in competitive modes due to the nerfed healing modifiers which pretty much guarantee you'll never be able to maintain full health on a Necro in combat long enough to stack up any worthwhile Barrier from the trait. I guess we'll just have to wait till it's in game before we can make any real judgements though. Hopefully it'll be a lot better than my expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I suspect the upcoming patch may show splits between WvW, PvP and PvE. It is hard to believe they would directly buff WvW performance so either these proposed changes will be at least partly split or WvW-Necro will get a nerf to compensate. Trait changes seem like a buff for Necro in WvW? War Horn is nerfed again but only in PvE? Barrier access via wells and blood magic for all shroud specializations? I do not remember anyone asking for that. In return, Necro loses shareable Protection and cool down reduction? Wells seem buffed for non-BM builds and nerfed for Blood Magic builds. SoV is now like Blood Fiend? SoS and Dread swap and change may be acceptable. It should help Signet builds a little wth CtD or SS. New Dread seems like less of a corner-case for use increasing shroud 3 availability. WoD looks strong enough to use in PvE but I guess it will be split between game modes. Why no change to Chilling Darkness instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I’m quite annoyed by people suggesting to even retire Signets of Suffering, especially seeing the bad influence that this community has on the balance choices made by ArenaNet. Signet of Suffering is a great Grandmaster trait, generally far superior to Close to Death. It is much more interesting and it gives to PvE Reaper an extraordinary combination of both very high damage and survivability. It also adds interesting gameplay possibilities. Reaper with Signet of Sufferings (trait), Signet of Vampirism, Signet of Spite and Signet of Undeath had far greater survivability. The DPS potential was a bit lower, but the effective DPS was better in many situations. It was simply superior, and there was not any problem with the trait, the main problem was people not being smart enough to understand its value. I’m talking about blind people who can’t see anything over ”potential DPS”. We will soon have a slightly weaker version of the trait in the Master tier, but fortunately it will still be very useful. It is nice that it will compete with Awaken the Pain (probably best option for potential DPS). Signet of Suffering will still be the alternative that makes Necromancer stronger and often more effective both defensively and offensively. If Signet of Suffering would become better even at potential DPS, then there would be “no reason” to take Awaken the Pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Also, the comments about Signet of Vampirism being viable only if it will have more damage than Blood Fiend makes no sense. Really? Blind people putting a very useful and interesting heal skill (Signet of Vampirism) in the trash category and choosing a far worse heal because it adds a very tiny amount of damage (something totally irrelevant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 This is my opinion after putting in a bit of thought: **Shade:** In itself, without the self shade the mechanic don't work well with the scourge. So bringing back the self shade isn't a bad thing in itself. However, the shade mechanic issue mainly come from the area denial thematic of the scourge. This mean that ANet just buff the area denial with this change and thus it is bound to create discontent. If the change came with changes like the removal of the _manifest sand shade_ proc from the F skill and a rework of _desert shroud_ into a non area denial skill, it would be a good move from ANet. Without it's a bad move, we are just going back to square 1. **Spite:** One of the major issue of the necromancer in PvE group content is that he does not benefit much from it's teammates due to it's self buffing abilities. The _Dread_ change just go a step further in the self buffing area, so technically it's a bad move for PvE group content. The change to _signet of suffering_ is another step in this direction as well. That said, these changes are strong QoL for any solo activities (something that wasn't needed). **Blood Magic:** From my point of view, _Blood Bank_ is yet another attempt at making Dagger main hand an interesting weapon (capitalising on _life siphon_). The issue is that such a trait is potentially extremely volatile. At the moment it's not known if it will proc from allies heal (which could make it insanely strong) and trait like _parasitic contagion_ / _soul eater_ are potentially broken when coupled with _Blood Bank_. Objectively it's mostly tamed in PvP/WvW but with a dangerous potential while the fonctionnality isn't needed in PvE group content. Something that I wonder is whether _Blood Bond_ see some changes alongside the _signet of vampirism_ changes of fonctionality. **Well of Darkness:** The CD reduction and the damages added are welcome. The chill... Shouldn't be implemented. This will make this skill a problem child in PvP, if you want chill alongside "darkness" just tweak _chilling darkness_ in PvE only (Don't add more Chill in the PvP/WvW modes, the condition have much more impact in these gamemode than in PvE, it's unsafe to add "more" of it there). A PvE only reduction of _Chilling darkness_ ICD to 1 second shouldn't be difficult to do afterall. Overall, the changes don't feel good for the health of the game, they put the necromancer in a more precarious position where they were already weak and push them further where they were already in a good spot which mean they will potentially overperform in these area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > Also, the comments about Signet of Vampirism being viable only if it will have more damage than Blood Fiend makes no sense. > > Really? Blind people putting a very useful and interesting heal skill (Signet of Vampirism) in the trash category and choosing a far worse heal because it adds a very tiny amount of damage (something totally irrelevant). In PvE, you should be able to avoid taking damage. Therefore the healing from a heal skill becomes irrelevant. Meanwhile, added damage is still more damage and is relevant (Even if only marginally useful, that's still infinitely more useful than having irrelevant healing) In PvP/WvW, Signet of Vampirism and Blood Fiend are both trash tier. You'd want to run Consume Conditions for Condi Cleanse or Sand Flare for AoE Barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > Also, the comments about Signet of Vampirism being viable only if it will have more damage than Blood Fiend makes no sense. > > > > Really? Blind people putting a very useful and interesting heal skill (Signet of Vampirism) in the trash category and choosing a far worse heal because it adds a very tiny amount of damage (something totally irrelevant). > > In PvE, you should be able to avoid taking damage. Therefore the healing from a heal skill becomes irrelevant. Meanwhile, added damage is still more damage and is relevant (Even if only marginally useful, that's still infinitely more useful than having irrelevant healing) > Fortunately ArenaNet is not designing and balancing the game only for that less than 0.2% of the community that really don’t need the personal heal skill and play with “nearly perfect groups”, but it is still “providing” some choices “aimed to” those players. In fact, for PvE, Signet of Vampirism is a far better heal skill for the vast majority of players, and Signets of Suffering a far more useful trait compared to Close to Death or Awaken the Pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > Also, the comments about Signet of Vampirism being viable only if it will have more damage than Blood Fiend makes no sense. > > > > > > Really? Blind people putting a very useful and interesting heal skill (Signet of Vampirism) in the trash category and choosing a far worse heal because it adds a very tiny amount of damage (something totally irrelevant). > > > > In PvE, you should be able to avoid taking damage. Therefore the healing from a heal skill becomes irrelevant. Meanwhile, added damage is still more damage and is relevant (Even if only marginally useful, that's still infinitely more useful than having irrelevant healing) > > > Fortunately ArenaNet is not designing and balancing the game only for that less than 0.2% of the community that really don’t need the personal heal skill and play with “nearly perfect groups”, but it is still providing some choices aimed to those players. > > In fact, for PvE, Signet of Vampirism is a far better heal skill for the vast majority of players, and Signets of Suffering a far more useful trait compared to Close to Death or Awaken the Pain. If we want to talk about the "Vast majority of players", then Blood Fiend wins out still. As most people run some form of Minion Master OW build and thus Blood Fiend > Signet. Also, with Minion Master builds, Signets of Suffering becomes useless, because utility slots are spent on minions (Sometimes also Well of Suffering) not Signets. Awaken the Pain still provides 250 power even in solo builds due to how easily Reaper can stack up Might with Reaper's Might + Siphoned Power. It's possible that if running Signet of Spite that Signets of Suffering can win out due to being 270 power while in Shroud, though it's arguable because Awaken the Pain will still provide Power while out of Shroud due to Siphoned Power (As well as residual stacks from Reaper's Might) while the new Signets of Suffering will do jack all while out of Shroud. Not accounting for being in a party and receiving Might stacks from allies that could maintain 20+ stacks while out of Shroud. Signets of Suffering in its current form, is a good trait. It just provides less damage than Close to Death so meta builds disfavour it (Heck, it allows for the memey AFK Reaper because Signet of Undeath allows for permenant Shroud uptime when combined with auto attacks). The nerfed Signets of Suffering in the next patch is less appealing, even if some Signets are getting buffed, due to the nature of only providing half the benefit (I.e. No passive boosts out of Shroud. Meaning no extra Healing Power from Locust, no extra Power from Spite, no extra LF from Undeath, no extra healing from Vampirism (The only time it'll provide healing is out of shroud...) etc.) especially so for any Scourge builds that may have taken it, since they have lower uptime on Shroud than Reaper/Core. This is still ignoring the fact that in general, it's not worth running Signets really. Outside of Spite for the passive power increase and Scourge running Undeath for extra LF generation (As well as some utility with the res aspect). But even then, the buffs to Well of Darkness might make that better than SoS's power increase, due to providing the high uptime of Chill for Cold Shoulder's 15% damage increase (Also allowing for more Chilling Nova procs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Will definitely reserve judgement on these changes until I see the values in-game. Blood Bank and Signet of Vampirism in particular I am reserving judgement on. I'd also like to know the new healing from boon strip values on Signet of the Locust. In the meantime, I will say that the changes are interesting.Glad Condi Reaper got a new toy, though it's worth noting that Well of Darkness with Bitter Chill will now stack a good bit of Vuln as well, letting you maintain stacks alongside Well of Suffering or easily cap out in burst. Damage values are also worth knowing (I'm expecting low). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > > Also, the comments about Signet of Vampirism being viable only if it will have more damage than Blood Fiend makes no sense. > > > > > > > > Really? Blind people putting a very useful and interesting heal skill (Signet of Vampirism) in the trash category and choosing a far worse heal because it adds a very tiny amount of damage (something totally irrelevant). > > > > > > In PvE, you should be able to avoid taking damage. Therefore the healing from a heal skill becomes irrelevant. Meanwhile, added damage is still more damage and is relevant (Even if only marginally useful, that's still infinitely more useful than having irrelevant healing) > > > > > Fortunately ArenaNet is not designing and balancing the game only for that less than 0.2% of the community that really don’t need the personal heal skill and play with “nearly perfect groups”, but it is still providing some choices aimed to those players. > > > > In fact, for PvE, Signet of Vampirism is a far better heal skill for the vast majority of players, and Signets of Suffering a far more useful trait compared to Close to Death or Awaken the Pain. > > If we want to talk about the "Vast majority of players", then Blood Fiend wins out still. As most people run some form of Minion Master OW build and thus Blood Fiend > Signet. > > Also, with Minion Master builds, Signets of Suffering becomes useless, because utility slots are spent on minions (Sometimes also Well of Suffering) not Signets. > > Awaken the Pain still provides 250 power even in solo builds due to how easily Reaper can stack up Might with Reaper's Might + Siphoned Power. > > It's possible that if running Signet of Spite that Signets of Suffering can win out due to being 270 power while in Shroud, though it's arguable because Awaken the Pain will still provide Power while out of Shroud due to Siphoned Power (As well as residual stacks from Reaper's Might) while the new Signets of Suffering will do jack all while out of Shroud. Not accounting for being in a party and receiving Might stacks from allies that could maintain 20+ stacks while out of Shroud. > > Signets of Suffering in its current form, is a good trait. It just provides less damage than Close to Death so meta builds disfavour it (Heck, it allows for the memey AFK Reaper because Signet of Undeath allows for permenant Shroud uptime when combined with auto attacks). The nerfed Signets of Suffering in the next patch is less appealing, even if some Signets are getting buffed, due to the nature of only providing half the benefit (I.e. No passive boosts out of Shroud. Meaning no extra Healing Power from Locust, no extra Power from Spite, no extra LF from Undeath, no extra healing from Vampirism (The only time it'll provide healing is out of shroud...) etc.) especially so for any Scourge builds that may have taken it, since they have lower uptime on Shroud than Reaper/Core. > > This is still ignoring the fact that in general, it's not worth running Signets really. Outside of Spite for the passive power increase and Scourge running Undeath for extra LF generation (As well as some utility with the res aspect). But even then, the buffs to Well of Darkness might make that better than SoS's power increase, due to providing the high uptime of Chill for Cold Shoulder's 15% damage increase (Also allowing for more Chilling Nova procs) I’m talking about what could be more effective for the vast majority of players and you mention minion master, really? I was talking about something that for the vast majority of players would provide better damage and better survivability than “minion master”. Signets of Suffering, Signet of Vampirism and Signet of Undeath are underused in PvE power builds mainly cause people that have a lot of influence on the community are sharing builds that are not really optimal for most people, and they usually don’t talk about how great some traits and skills can be. Anyway, I’ve already said what I cared to communicate. There is really not much to add and I’m not going to get stuck into “endless” discussions with people “not willing” (or “capable”) to consider most of the community with their arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taril.8619 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > > > > Also, the comments about Signet of Vampirism being viable only if it will have more damage than Blood Fiend makes no sense. > > > > > > > > > > Really? Blind people putting a very useful and interesting heal skill (Signet of Vampirism) in the trash category and choosing a far worse heal because it adds a very tiny amount of damage (something totally irrelevant). > > > > > > > > In PvE, you should be able to avoid taking damage. Therefore the healing from a heal skill becomes irrelevant. Meanwhile, added damage is still more damage and is relevant (Even if only marginally useful, that's still infinitely more useful than having irrelevant healing) > > > > > > > Fortunately ArenaNet is not designing and balancing the game only for that less than 0.2% of the community that really don’t need the personal heal skill and play with “nearly perfect groups”, but it is still providing some choices aimed to those players. > > > > > > In fact, for PvE, Signet of Vampirism is a far better heal skill for the vast majority of players, and Signets of Suffering a far more useful trait compared to Close to Death or Awaken the Pain. > > > > If we want to talk about the "Vast majority of players", then Blood Fiend wins out still. As most people run some form of Minion Master OW build and thus Blood Fiend > Signet. > > > > Also, with Minion Master builds, Signets of Suffering becomes useless, because utility slots are spent on minions (Sometimes also Well of Suffering) not Signets. > > > > Awaken the Pain still provides 250 power even in solo builds due to how easily Reaper can stack up Might with Reaper's Might + Siphoned Power. > > > > It's possible that if running Signet of Spite that Signets of Suffering can win out due to being 270 power while in Shroud, though it's arguable because Awaken the Pain will still provide Power while out of Shroud due to Siphoned Power (As well as residual stacks from Reaper's Might) while the new Signets of Suffering will do jack all while out of Shroud. Not accounting for being in a party and receiving Might stacks from allies that could maintain 20+ stacks while out of Shroud. > > > > Signets of Suffering in its current form, is a good trait. It just provides less damage than Close to Death so meta builds disfavour it (Heck, it allows for the memey AFK Reaper because Signet of Undeath allows for permenant Shroud uptime when combined with auto attacks). The nerfed Signets of Suffering in the next patch is less appealing, even if some Signets are getting buffed, due to the nature of only providing half the benefit (I.e. No passive boosts out of Shroud. Meaning no extra Healing Power from Locust, no extra Power from Spite, no extra LF from Undeath, no extra healing from Vampirism (The only time it'll provide healing is out of shroud...) etc.) especially so for any Scourge builds that may have taken it, since they have lower uptime on Shroud than Reaper/Core. > > > > This is still ignoring the fact that in general, it's not worth running Signets really. Outside of Spite for the passive power increase and Scourge running Undeath for extra LF generation (As well as some utility with the res aspect). But even then, the buffs to Well of Darkness might make that better than SoS's power increase, due to providing the high uptime of Chill for Cold Shoulder's 15% damage increase (Also allowing for more Chilling Nova procs) > > I’m talking about what could be more effective for the vast majority of players and you mention minion master, really? Yes. Since the vast majority of players run minion master builds. It is by far the most popular Necro build, due to being easy and effective for open world PvE, which is the most popular activity in GW2. > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > I was talking about something that for the vast majority of players would provide better damage and better survivability than “minion master”. But if we start talking about "Better damage and better survivability than minion master" then we start getting to the min-maxing in which Signets suck and meta builds are the best since they're optimized for damage and/or survivability. > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > Signets of Suffering, Signet of Vampirism and Signet of Undeath are underused in PvE power builds mainly cause people that have a lot of influence on the community are sharing builds that are not really optimal for most people, and they usually don’t talk about how great some traits and skills can be. They're underused in PvE power builds because they suck. Signet of Vampirism sucks. Signet of Undeath is unecessary (Even without it you can fill up your entire LF bar before the 10s CD of Shroud is finished) Thus leading to Signets of Suffering only really affecting the 1 signet that is actually used, Signet of Spite. In which all that is provided by the trait is raw damage. While being outperformed in damage increase by Close to Death and soon will be outperformed by Awaken the Pain. > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > Anyway, I’ve already said what I cared to communicate. There is really not much to add and I’m not going to get stuck into endless discussions with people not willing (or “capable”) to consider most of the community in their arguments. Fair enough. Though, from my perspective, you're the one who's not considering most of the community in their arguments. I'm looking at things from the perspective of PvP players, WvW players, Open World PvE players and Instanced PvE players. While you're arguing from the point of a "Majority" of players whom seem to be running Signet builds in undefined content? Signets suck for all of the players. As I've mentioned. PvP players want Consume Conditions because the Condi Cleanse is very valuable. WvW players use Sand Flare because they're generally running Scourge as a support/semi support. Open World PvE players favour minion master builds and so will use Blood Fiend. Instanced PvE players will use whatever provides the most damage (Currently Blood Fiend. Maybe Signet of Vampirism if it deals enough damage) Which is the problem with Signets of Suffering, most signets just aren't worth running, even Signets of Suffering. It is also not helped by where the trait is situated, it is in a damage focused specialization and competing with a large damage increase trait. If it was in something like Blood Magic or Death Magic so the utility from the trait was in a more utility focused specialization, maybe it'd see more use (Though, Death Magic doesn't see much use at all... Outside some minion master builds) - Heck, Signets in general thematically fit in with Blood Magic. With Signet of Vampirism and Signet of the Locust having life siphon, Plague Signet providing condi transfer from allies similar to Unholy Martyr and Signet of Undeath having the revive similar to Ritual of Life, Life from Death and Transfusion (Not to mention its Health cost synergizes with the life siphon in the specialization) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Storm.6974 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 > > I’m talking about what could be more effective for the vast majority of players and you mention minion master, really? > > Yes. Since the vast majority of players run minion master builds. > > It is by far the most popular Necro build, due to being easy and effective for open world PvE, which is the most popular activity in GW2. > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > I was talking about something that for the vast majority of players would provide better damage and better survivability than “minion master”. > > But if we start talking about "Better damage and better survivability than minion master" then we start getting to the min-maxing in which Signets suck and meta builds are the best since they're optimized for damage and/or survivability. > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > Signets of Suffering, Signet of Vampirism and Signet of Undeath are underused in PvE power builds mainly cause people that have a lot of influence on the community are sharing builds that are not really optimal for most people, and they usually don’t talk about how great some traits and skills can be. > > They're underused in PvE power builds because they suck. > > Signet of Vampirism sucks. > Signet of Undeath is unecessary (Even without it you can fill up your entire LF bar before the 10s CD of Shroud is finished) > > Thus leading to Signets of Suffering only really affecting the 1 signet that is actually used, Signet of Spite. In which all that is provided by the trait is raw damage. While being outperformed in damage increase by Close to Death and soon will be outperformed by Awaken the Pain. > > > @"Black Storm.6974" said: > > Anyway, I’ve already said what I cared to communicate. There is really not much to add and I’m not going to get stuck into endless discussions with people not willing (or “capable”) to consider most of the community in their arguments. > > Fair enough. Though, from my perspective, you're the one who's not considering most of the community in their arguments. > > I'm looking at things from the perspective of PvP players, WvW players, Open World PvE players and Instanced PvE players. > > While you're arguing from the point of a "Majority" of players whom seem to be running Signet builds in undefined content? > > Signets suck for all of the players. As I've mentioned. PvP players want Consume Conditions because the Condi Cleanse is very valuable. WvW players use Sand Flare because they're generally running Scourge as a support/semi support. Open World PvE players favour minion master builds and so will use Blood Fiend. Instanced PvE players will use whatever provides the most damage (Currently Blood Fiend. Maybe Signet of Vampirism if it deals enough damage) > > Which is the problem with Signets of Suffering, most signets just aren't worth running, even Signets of Suffering. It is also not helped by where the trait is situated, it is in a damage focused specialization and competing with a large damage increase trait. > > If it was in something like Blood Magic or Death Magic so the utility from the trait was in a more utility focused specialization, maybe it'd see more use (Though, Death Magic doesn't see much use at all... Outside some minion master builds) - Heck, Signets in general thematically fit in with Blood Magic. With Signet of Vampirism and Signet of the Locust having life siphon, Plague Signet providing condi transfer from allies similar to Unholy Martyr and Signet of Undeath having the revive similar to Ritual of Life, Life from Death and Transfusion (Not to mention its Health cost synergizes with the life siphon in the specialization) Popular and effective are much different things. I’m mainly talking about PvE and mostly about Fractal and Raids, because when people talk about PvE balance they mainly desire it for these activities. There are many encounters where Close to Death is not the best option for most people in most groups. Anyway, signets builds can be great for many activities in Open World too. I have really already said which signets are good and why, so I’m not going to repeat myself here. To perform well, most players need things that you consider bad but in reality are simply great and would be great for them. Many players, choosing what provide most potential damage, end up doing less damage while also having less survivability (and I’m talking about a survivability that would help them to do more damage too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 @"Black Storm.6974" Well, all in all, _Signet of Suffering_ will find it harder to compete against _Awaken the pain_ than it is currently when competing against _Close to death_. Especially if you only benefit from the trait effects while in shroud. And it is true for all gamemodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 @"Taril.8619" @"Black Storm.6974" 1. Rarely MM unless underwater or falling asleep in open world so I would be in that minority. 2. Use Signets a lot so in another minority The changes to Spite have potential and I will try them. The changes to Blood Magic make me cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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