Upcoming Balance Patch - Engineer

[tyrellian.3706]

# Shield

> With this update, we revisited the shield and its trait and found that while its function remains reasonable, it needed a few improvements to both its messaging and potency as a defensive tool.

> * Magnetic Inversion: Increased the attack radius from 180 to 240.

> * Static Shield: Increased the block duration of this skill from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds. Improved the tooltip for better clarity.

Wider radius and longer duration are welcome changes - it always felt odd that the shield's block duration was only 2s.

 

> * Over Shield: This trait has been reworked. It now causes the player to activate a skill that grants protection to nearby allies when using a shield skill.

Er, it already does that. Is this just a roundabout way of avoiding saying "We're going to nerf the hell out of this trait"? Because if that's *all* this trait does now, then this is a big nerf. No more 20% CD reduction on shield skills, no more 20% improved protection.

 

Overall, shield changes are a moderate nerf. The longer block is counterbalanced by the loss of CD reduction, and the loss of the protection improvement pushes this over the line from neutral to negative.

 

# Pistol

 

> A couple main-hand pistol skills also received enhancements to their condition duration, as they've been lagging a bit behind even kit autoattack options.

> * Fragmentation Shot: Increased the bleed duration inflicted from 5 seconds to 6 seconds.

> * Poison Dart Volley: Increased the poison duration inflicted from 7 seconds to 9 seconds in PvE only.

Meh. They still lag behind kit autoattack options. The MH pistol needs a lot more love before it's going to see serious use.

 

# Healing

> * Soothing Detonation: This trait has been reworked. It now heals in an area around the engineer each time they use a tool-belt skill instead of when using a blast finisher with a fire combo field.

It doesn't require a fire field at present; it's rather troubling that the balance team believes this.

Overall, though, this is a significant buff - making this proc off TB skills allows it to be used both more often and without the overhead of setting up the combo. TBQH, though, I don't think we really needed a healing buff.

 

# Scrapper

> * System Shocker: This trait will now grant barrier to the engineer each time they use control effects on a foe, in addition to causing the function gyro to daze foes.

Meh. I'd be surprised if this granted more than 100-200 barrier, and it would still be worst-in-slot even with 300-400. Superspeed/Stab are simply way more valuable than yet another small application of barrier.

 

> * Speed of Synergy: This trait has been reworked. It will now grant superspeed for 5 seconds to allies in a radius of 240 around the engineer when using a healing skill. Using a healing tool-belt skill grants the engineer 7 seconds of superspeed.

Ugh, big nerf, in so many ways:

* Scrappers can blast a lot more often than they can use their heal skill.

* Superspeed from leap is gone.

* Removes a meaningful way to apply superspeed. No one in PvP/WvW is going to blow their heal just to apply superspeed, so this is effectively reduced to an on-heal bonus rather than an independent way to apply superspeed.

* Grates horribly with the medkit. The medkit's toolbelt skill *is* its healing skill, so one of the 5/7s superspeed will immediately overwrite the other. Probably the 5, knowing our luck.

* And speaking of overwriting, that's the likely fate of the 7s personal superspeed anyway.

 

Overall: Did this really require a nerf that savage?

Unintended consequences: Loss of group superspeed in WvW + overbearing buffs to scourge shades = miserable tarpit movement for everyone.

 

# Kits

> * Incendiary Ammo: Reduced cooldown from 50 seconds to 40 seconds.

> * Flame Blast: Increased burning duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.

> * Air Blast: Adjusted burning from 2 stacks for 2 seconds to 1 stack for 5 seconds.

> * Smoke Vent: Reduced cooldown from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.

Flamethrower buffs across the board - the IA and Smoke Vent ones in particular being quite strong.

 

> * Shrapnel Grenade: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP only. Reduced power coefficient per grenade from 0.63 to 0.567 in PvP only.

Why? Was shrapnel grenade particularly overperforming?

 

# Elites

> * Toss Elixir X: Reduced cooldown from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

> * Med Pack Drop: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

> * Orbital Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.9 in PvP and WvW.

Nice, but not hugely impactful. The CDs on toss-X and med pack drop are still long enough that this won't make much difference.

As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, they'll just do so more often. This really feels like a skill that deserves considerably more than a 1.0 power coefficient.

 

# QoL

> * Hip Shot: This skill now includes piercing in its tooltip.

> * Magnetic Shield: This skill now displays a ring to indicate the area Magnetic Inversion will affect. Improved the tooltip to include more information. Visual-effect size increased slightly for better visibility.

Radius indicator's welcome on MS.

 

# Overall

This feels like a confused patch, of the sort we got pre-CMC.

It's got buffs to things that don't need buffing, nerfs to things that don't need nerfing, things sold as buffs which are actually nerfs, and a lot of meh.

It sort of half-heartedly tries to fix some of the issues with core, but falls way short. Turrets and gadgets still rest quiet in their graves, and traitline issues with inventions and tools remain. Fiddling with the cooldowns on elites will not make core any less unattractive.

I'd say the FT changes are the only bright light.

[Jaykay.9641]

Wanted to touch on the Shield changes:

Seems Anet wants to reduce or remove the effectiveness of protection enhancement buffs. It looks like Engineers won't be able to hit 40% damage reduction, looks like Elementalist has the enhanced protection duration reduced from 3 to 2 secs as well on Hardy Conduit. Since the shield got some duration and radius increase, looks like this is the trade off for no more 40% protection. My only hope is that Overshield keeps the 20% cooldown reduction on shield talents - currently in the preview notes, it doesn't say it keeps the CD reduction.

[Renny.6571]

The nerf to Speed of Synergy is extremely /crippling/ to dps scrapper. The immediate effect is that any sort of movement debuff makes sticking to targets with hammer impossible. Same for kiting and avoiding damage. Secondly, the uptime on the 5% damage mod from Object in Motion is now severely reduced which is the only damage modifying trait in the scrapper line. While we have decent uptime on swiftness and stability, those two are susceptible to boon strip.

 

I really hope anet reconsiders this change and keep it the way it is, perhaps reduce the duration on aoe superspeed if it really is such a problem.

[UNOwen.7132]

The good part is that core engineer wasnt really hit much, grenades are still intact and all that. But Im a bit confused about the shield buffs. Shield is only used by Holo, because only it has access to a good mainhand weapon. Why buff Shield if thats gonna buff holo?

[hugo.4705]

What CMC means? Really can't understand what is that abbreviation. Still waiting for turrets rework instead of an unnecessary balance patch.

"FT" "MS" ... the only one I understand is CD.

[wasss.1208]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> What CMC means? Really can't understand what is that abbreviation. Still waiting for turrets rework instead of an unnecessary balance patch.

> "FT" "MS" ... the only one I understand is CD.

 

CMC is the new competitive balance dev. FT is flame thrower, MS is magnetic shield (that one is rarely used, but you can find out by checking what the poster was reacting to)

[Dediggefedde.4961]

Who knows, maybe swapping med kit will cause AoE superpeed without ICD until the first Hotfix later that day. ^^

Triggered by medkit swap, but with ICD of 20s might be a good option.

I also expect Soothing Detonation to heal less since you can combine multiple toolbelts without animation...

[HnRkLnXqZ.1870]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> What CMC means? Really can't understand what is that abbreviation. Still waiting for turrets rework instead of an unnecessary balance patch.

> "FT" "MS" ... the only one I understand is CD.

 

Cal "cmc" Cohen. I only remember the name because our two PvP experts mentioned this developer with _ugrent things that need to be patched this instant_ (in their opinion) - until they got moderated.

 

Now let's have a quick look on the patch notes:

 

> - Over Shield: This trait has been reworked. It now causes the player to activate a skill that grants protection to nearby allies when using a shield skill.

 

This looks like they delay the protection-cast and probably make it vulnerable to interrupts. In combination with the removal of the cooldown-reduction, this is a heavy nerf. But Holosmith still needs to be balanced. Sadly it will mostly affect Core and Scrapper (support) once again.

 

Every time I read **Fragmentation Shot** in any patch-notes I hope for the explosive-treatment. - NOPE once again.

 

System Shocker. Barrier scales with intensity of CC? Barrier scales with number of targets hit? Need more details.

 

Speed Synergy. I see the problem you try to fix. Can we get a split between game-modes for this?

 

Flame Thrower buffs are good.

The three elite-skill improvements only affect core. Lifting core up without overpowering Holosmith, much appreciated. More please.

 

I hope they do it as last time, gather feedback and adjust a few things before releasing the real thing.

 

 

 

 

 

[wasss.1208]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> Who knows, maybe swapping med kit will cause AoE superpeed without ICD until the first Hotfix later that day. ^^

> Triggered by medkit swap, but with ICD of 20s might be a good option.

 

Runes and traits that proc on healing skill always proc on F1 with Med Kit. The only way for this to work on the swap itself, if they pull an another Gadgeteer shenigan.

[wasss.1208]

> > With this update, we revisited the shield and its trait and found that while its function remains reasonable, it needed a few improvements to both its messaging and potency as a defensive tool.

> > * Magnetic Inversion: Increased the attack radius from 180 to 240.

> > * Static Shield: Increased the block duration of this skill from 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds. Improved the tooltip for better clarity.

 

Holo buffs, as the other two specs can rarely use shield. Engi weapon buffs are always nice to see, I just don't get why they do it to stuff that doesn't benefit core at least.

 

> > * Over Shield: This trait has been reworked. It now causes the player to activate a skill that grants protection to nearby allies when using a shield skill.

 

This seems to be one of the not yet written changes, but if this is all what this trait will do, it's a massive nerf to the Inventions line, which is already bad. Also, does this extra skill proc causes us to take double damage from confu?

 

> > * Soothing Detonation: This trait has been reworked. It now heals in an area around the engineer each time they use a tool-belt skill instead of when using a blast finisher with a fire combo field.

 

Sounds good on paper. My only problem, that this benefits holo the most, as they have holo forge on 5sec, Surprise Shot on 8, Particle Accelerator on 10 seconds of CD. This could be massive survivability boost for SD holo, or make a new bunker holo build.

 

> > * Speed of Synergy: This trait has been reworked. It will now grant superspeed for 5 seconds to allies in a radius of 240 around the engineer when using a healing skill. Using a healing tool-belt skill grants the engineer 7 seconds of superspeed.

 

I liked the current iteration, superspeed on leap and blast combos.

 

> # Overall

> This feels like a confused patch, of the sort we got pre-CMC.

 

OP did a great job at summing this patch.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"tyrellian.3706" said:

> # Elites

> > * Toss Elixir X: Reduced cooldown from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

> > * Med Pack Drop: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

> > * Orbital Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.9 in PvP and WvW.

> Nice, but not hugely impactful. The CDs on toss-X and med pack drop are still long enough that this won't make much difference.

> As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, they'll just do so more often. This really feels like a skill that deserves considerably more than a 1.0 power coefficient.

But you missed the point. Now we can miss *several times* per fight.

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"tyrellian.3706" said:

> > # Elites

> > > * Toss Elixir X: Reduced cooldown from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

> > > * Med Pack Drop: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

> > > * Orbital Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.9 in PvP and WvW.

> > Nice, but not hugely impactful. The CDs on toss-X and med pack drop are still long enough that this won't make much difference.

> > As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, they'll just do so more often. This really feels like a skill that deserves considerably more than a 1.0 power coefficient.

> But you missed the point. Now we can miss *several times* per fight.

 

That is literally what he wrote, tho.

 

>As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, **they'll just do so more often.**

[Makuragee.3058]

Now that they are nerfing over shield, even for support this line is useless? Ok ok lets be seriois why did they feel the need to nerf support build? I its because of pvp... no one care about pvp balance its already a wasteland of game mode and for wvw I doudbt this trait was overperforming. Want to nerf proc Holo, result buff proc holo and nerf the rest. And the scrapper new speed of synergy just sound bad, really really bad trait, wont be good for support and wont be good for dps, it will be a useless minor

[Tanbin.2436]

> @"wasss.1208" said:

> > @"hugo.4705" said:

> > What CMC means? Really can't understand what is that abbreviation. Still waiting for turrets rework instead of an unnecessary balance patch.

> > "FT" "MS" ... the only one I understand is CD.

>

> CMC is the new competitive balance dev. FT is flame thrower, MS is magnetic shield (that one is rarely used, but you can find out by checking what the poster was reacting to)

 

He's not a dev, he just manages the PvP department. He gets feedback from advisors within discord if it's available along with other possible discord/forum suggestions and feedback input from people in the game and they make judgements based on that and of course graphs and stats that also go into their decisions.

 

That then gets passed over to a dev team to implement. I'm not saying their decisions are good or perfect, but that's usually how they come up with their ideas.

 

You probably already know this maybe but throwing it out there. Devs should not be looked at as the people that make the decisions, they implement the decisions from another group. People really actually think devs are the ones who implement the decisions and the code when they run tests, build and deploy automation as a team. When it comes to balance, they either say "yes it can be done" or "no, this can't be done due to a limitation with X and Y trait, skill or animation" or even a time limitation within specific timeframes and then they worked based off of that.

 

So when somebody memes "devs have no brains" or "anet balance btw" , you're not really talking to the dev team you're talking to the people who tell the dev team what is to be implemented. CMC runs that part of it.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"tyrellian.3706" said:

> > > # Elites

> > > > * Toss Elixir X: Reduced cooldown from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

> > > > * Med Pack Drop: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

> > > > * Orbital Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.9 in PvP and WvW.

> > > Nice, but not hugely impactful. The CDs on toss-X and med pack drop are still long enough that this won't make much difference.

> > > As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, they'll just do so more often. This really feels like a skill that deserves considerably more than a 1.0 power coefficient.

> > But you missed the point. Now we can miss *several times* per fight.

>

> That is literally what he wrote, tho.

>

> >As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, **they'll just do so more often.**

Apparently I was too drunk and missed again.

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"tyrellian.3706" said:

> > > > # Elites

> > > > > * Toss Elixir X: Reduced cooldown from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

> > > > > * Med Pack Drop: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

> > > > > * Orbital Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.9 in PvP and WvW.

> > > > Nice, but not hugely impactful. The CDs on toss-X and med pack drop are still long enough that this won't make much difference.

> > > > As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, they'll just do so more often. This really feels like a skill that deserves considerably more than a 1.0 power coefficient.

> > > But you missed the point. Now we can miss *several times* per fight.

> >

> > That is literally what he wrote, tho.

> >

> > >As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, **they'll just do so more often.**

> Apparently I was too drunk and missed again.

>

 

Go have some more elixir B.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Applied_Force

 

Add : Number of Target 5 (so your team get that boon as well)

interval 10s->8s

 

And Scrapper will be more welcome in raids/t4

 

Speed of Synergy: This trait has been reworked. It will now grant superspeed for 5 seconds to allies in a radius of 240 around the engineer when using a healing skill. Using a healing tool-belt skill grants the engineer 7 seconds of superspeed.

 

so now catching ranger/thief or any class with dash will be pointles in pvp or wvw, and to move from criple/chilled you will need heal youreself :open_mouth: ? uhh

 

Over Shield: This trait has been reworked. It now causes the player to activate a skill that grants protection to nearby allies when using a shield skill.

 

welp if ther will be no longer -20% cd, keeping up perm protection as sup scrapper with pistol+shield will be more harder

 

Soothing Detonation: This trait has been reworked. It now heals in an area around the engineer each time they use a tool-belt skill instead of when using a blast finisher with a fire combo field.

 

if i understed it right, so with this trait you heal your team evry 7s using surprise shot? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surprise_Shot_(engineer_skill)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > > @"tyrellian.3706" said:

> > > > > # Elites

> > > > > > * Toss Elixir X: Reduced cooldown from 120 seconds to 90 seconds.

> > > > > > * Med Pack Drop: Reduced cooldown from 60 seconds to 50 seconds.

> > > > > > * Orbital Strike: Reduced cooldown from 40 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.9 in PvP and WvW.

> > > > > Nice, but not hugely impactful. The CDs on toss-X and med pack drop are still long enough that this won't make much difference.

> > > > > As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, they'll just do so more often. This really feels like a skill that deserves considerably more than a 1.0 power coefficient.

> > > > But you missed the point. Now we can miss *several times* per fight.

> > >

> > > That is literally what he wrote, tho.

> > >

> > > >As for orbital strike, I think all three of the people still playing core engi in PvP and WvW will continue to miss entire groups with the most telegraphed skill in the game, **they'll just do so more often.**

> > Apparently I was too drunk and missed again.

> >

>

> Go have some more elixir B.

 

Wouldn't it be elixir C under the circumstances?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

>

Soothing Detonation: This trait has been reworked. It now heals in an area around the engineer each time they use a tool-belt skill instead of when using a blast finisher with a fire combo field.

>

> if i understed it right, so with this trait you heal your team evry 7s using surprise shot? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surprise_Shot_(engineer_skill)

Wouldnt surprise me if it has a 60s+ icd.

[Renny.6571]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

> >

Soothing Detonation: This trait has been reworked. It now heals in an area around the engineer each time they use a tool-belt skill instead of when using a blast finisher with a fire combo field.

> >

> > if i understed it right, so with this trait you heal your team evry 7s using surprise shot? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surprise_Shot_(engineer_skill)

> Wouldnt surprise me if it has a 60s+ icd.

 

I have a feeling they'll just make the HP scaling garbage to compensate for being able to use many toolbelt skills in succession..

[Kuma.1503]

Anet: So scrapper is pretty bad in every game mode but WvW. We gutted their damage, nerfed their healing, slapped them with an unnecessary trade off, and double-nerfed an already over-nerfed weapon in PvP by increasing cooldowns... but y'know what? their AoE superspeed gives them a niche over other supports in WvW.

 

Also Anet: What if we nerfed Scrapper's superspeed?

 

...

 

Pfff, who am I kidding. Anet would never be that self aware. They probably think these changes are a buff xD

 

 

 

[Jaruselka.5943]

Next patch can we get better downed skills? The current ones are trash (from a WvW view)...

[Daxia.1425]

It is very disappointing to me in all ways and it puts us back again. To me it feels like a reaction on complaints than solid research.

[Makuragee.3058]

After some look and testing, they didnt change the over shield trait (well trchnically yes, but gameplay wise no, not really) we still have the 20% cooldown reduction and the protection buff. Speed of synergy is welp, not that bad but I dont like it, I prefer the old one, but its not as bad, I guess,. Soothing detonation is pure buff for heal/suppprt scrapper, so thats that. The rest dont matter, youll hardly see a difference.

[tyrellian.3706]

From testing, Speed of Synergy + medkit toolbelt = 12s superspeed.

So the superspeed stacks with itself on this skill.

It doesn't seem to stack with anything else though, and will still get overwritten if you get superspeed from any other source.