Why core scepter damage is so low?

[Junkpile.7439]

Tried to kill some raptors in wvw coupe days ago and old teleport one hit combo takes like 50% hp off. How you kill player when your damage is this low and most of your skills are just stupid easy to avoid? You don't really any survivability either. You have like 2 dodges and one blind that is hard to avoid. Cc skills don't really work because enemies farting stability whole time. Water skills heal like under 4k if you spam all of them. Mist form is useless if you don't fight close portal or own blob. Like the weapon, but damage and skill mechanics are just lackbuster. It's like whole weapon point is to fight against players who have 3 sec reaction time. I could understand that skills are easy to avoid if they would make good damage, but damage is just low.

[fuzzyp.6295]

What exactly is the build you are running? Core Scepter is best (pretty much only) used when in combination with Fresh Air, and Core Fresh Air is still respectable in damage. It's not as strong as Weaver's burst, but with that trade off comes more sustain since you'd be taking Water. Or if you really want a burst, you can pick Fire, but in that situation you're not gonna survive if you miss your burst.

 

Core Scepter FA should be running Arcane Shield and Arcane Blast. Shield will act as your stun break and can deal some decent damage to players up in your face. Arcane Blast is good since it will always crit and reset your Air attunement. You can run Elemental Surge to reduce the cool down and add conditions on each attunement you use your Arcane skills in. Air for Blind and Earth for Immob are probably your most important ones. Water for Chill on Ele mirror matches.

 

You need to be running Marauders Gear at the very least. More Beserker gear is better but Core Ele needs that HP buffer, at least 15k to win any fights. Core Fresh Air is also not really the one shot it was anymore. If you want big DPS bursts on Core FA, you gotta combo Gale, Comet or a Torando with a Phoenix and Air Attunements. Its about baiting our opponents stun breaks and dodges and buying your time for the right moment to open up. Shatterstone is also actually decent now and explodes fast with good vuln. stacks and damage, so dont be afraid to use that when you're in water (I'm not sure what you mean Water skill heals 4K. Water Trident is the only heal on Scepter and it heals like 1.2k if you're running good dps gear and works as a condi cleanse mostly)

 

For traits, take Air 2-2-2. Superspeed is helpful for putting more distance between you and your foe, or catching up to them. With Raginging Storm you'll have almost perma fury. Arcane you'd want 2-2-2 as well. You get perma vigor (well, every 10 seconds anyway) because you crit so much. Elemental Lock down gives you fury when you use Gale. Its more a Weaver trait but Final Shield is absolute garbage and the other one is a support skill. You want Elemental Surge for the reasons I listed above. Your last line is up to you, but Water is the best for Core. You want 2-1-1. 2 adds more DPS to players who are Vuln, which is doubled when in water, and works okay with the new shatterstone. The Soothing Catrips is good because you'll want to use Ether Renewal for your heal (condi cleanse), LF for mobility and Tornado for elite (extra knock down). You can use FGS, and its strong, but I think on Core it needs more knock downs to land your burst and Tornado is good. Cleansing Water is also for sustain. If you go Fire, probably just do 3-3-3. The first and last traits are sustain traits and Power Overwhelming is good for bursting since its might cap was lowered, but honestly Core FA doesn't really need to go into Fire unless you're really set on trying for one shots.

 

EDIT: Gear you will want either Scholar Runes for the most DPS or Pack Runes for a more stable uptime on Fury and extra might. There are other runes that work too, but these two are probably the best right now. your Sigils should probably be either Energy, Cleansing, or Air. Some also rune Celerity for Quickness burst and I've seen Rending used for extra Vuln stacks (although i dont think thats really needed)

 

If you really miss the old one shot FA builds, you gotta trait Weaver. That can take an opponent from 100% to >10% if you do it correctly. Core FA is more about the longer game. I hope this helps.

[Junkpile.7439]

I use off hand dagger and i won't never use focus. I run water, air, arcane fresh air build. Full marauder and scholar runes. Skills like phoenix and dragon's tooth should be devastating if they hit, but now they barely hurt.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

You'll never win anything with core fresh air but afk players.

So many skills and traits have been nerfed since tempest/weaver fresh air ; the only remaining DPS skills are fire #2 #3 ... it means you need focus to cc your opponent before.

You need weaver for dual attacks and bonus dmg. (+ you need ascended gear, food, infusions ...)

 

[fuzzyp.6295]

> @"Junkpile.7439" said:

> I use off hand dagger and i won't never use focus. I run water, air, arcane fresh air build. Full marauder and scholar runes. Skills like phoenix and dragon's tooth should be devastating if they hit, but now they barely hurt.

 

Our current meta has more value on defense oriented game play. Players are running more tanky and more condition heavy since the balance patch in Feb nerfed power across the board. This applies not only to roamers but zergs as well, they are now incredibly tanky and full of sustain. That coupled with Core Elemenatlist being more about flexibility then raw power means your skills aren't going to hit for what you are probably expecting. Personally when I run core FA, I still see the numbers I'm expecting to see. Phoenix crits for anywhere from 5-8k and Dragon Tooth can crit up to 10k. Those are pretty high for Core Ele. But I use them with my knock downs from focus and Tornado to ensure that moves hit. You may need to swap out some Marauders trinkets for Berserkers though.

 

Seeing as you run Dagger, I really think you should just try out Weaver. There is a meme one shot build that uses Scepter/Dagger along with Unravel and sigil of Celerity that can insta down pretty much anything. Scepter/Dagger is only good if you can be hyper aggressive and Core Ele is no longer that class.

[len.7809]

if you think core spt/d damage is low, check d/d, I play d/d core ele and the only burst skills I have are fire 3 n 5, and fire 5 has 120% chance to fail.

Anet nerfed a underpower class with the massive power n healing nerf, making op classes viable and underpowered classes more underpowered than before.

 

[MarzAttakz.9608]

I just want to add that JunkPile (OP) isn't new to the game, he's played Ele way way back when we could still burst acceptably with s/x and d/d. pretty good gauge on how far we've fallen.

[Junkpile.7439]

Hmm maybe this air, arcane, fire could work if i burst right time and flee instantly. B)

[Vrath.1754]

Just want to note a couple players from Noodys MRGA. Cedlol won playing core sc/fc although he is an exceptional player. There was another submission weaver playing a one shot sc/dg play style and he was blowing people up. Worth checking out there builds, I'm on mobile and to lazy to link them.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

They played weaver.

[Junkpile.7439]

Little bit hectic spec to play when you have 14k hp, 2k armor and barely any condi removal. Burst is good if arcane shield explodes, but meh otherwise.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Even after buffing shatterstone so many times...

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> Even after buffing shatterstone so many times...

 

 

Ah yeah, remember this meme pearl when they buffed this skill for like 3 or 4 consecutive patchs. :lol:

May be it was also an inside joke for devs.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

its cuz the majority of weapons in this game haven't been touched since game launch. they are just now getting around to buffing warrior offhands lol.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> its cuz the majority of weapons in this game haven't been touched since game launch. they are just now getting around to buffing warrior offhands lol.

 

Sad truth. I wonder if Necro staff and Guardian Hammer are next...

[Shiyo.3578]

It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

 

Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

[MyPuppy.8970]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

>

> Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

 

To be fair, weaver damage isn't really there anymore...

[Helicity.3416]

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

> >

> > Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

>

> To be fair, weaver damage isn't really there anymore...

 

I wouldn't say that, FA weaver has pretty competitive damage output still, but the trade-off is that sometimes you're just going to get wrecked (mostly by thieves).

 

Such is life.

 

https://imgur.com/ASZD1Wn

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

> > >

> > > Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

> >

> > To be fair, weaver damage isn't really there anymore...

>

> I wouldn't say that, FA weaver has pretty competitive damage output still, but the trade-off is that sometimes you're just going to get wrecked (mostly by thieves).

>

> Such is life.

>

> https://imgur.com/ASZD1Wn

 

 

Yes it could, but : in WvW, against class with no invu/block, no stab when you backstab them.

You could also play with gimmicks : sigil of celerity + sigil of severance + arcane Lockdown, so with air/earth you proc (weakness) + fury+quickness+240ferocity, for your burst fire/air + Electric discharge + Electric discharge +air #2 #3 ; or if you use weaveself earth/air, air/earth, air/air and wait for fire/air, air/fire, air/air, a bit longer but more buff, more dps. You're pretty sure to OS everybody : War / rev with protection or defense etc, but it's clearly not elem newbie friendly build; you have to know how to trigger all the differents buffs, to swap and rotate attunements while casting skills and reading the fight, ... and to place yourself, kite etc. If you fight against 2 or 3 players, or another class with blocks/stab or a trailblazer necro/mirage etc, you die, very fast or you have to flee very fast.

The big issue is the serrated DPS, if you miss your burst you have only shitty skills or skills with delay (dragon's tooth, shattersone etc) to wait for the next one. This isn't true with mesmer for example, for almost the same burst but twice the sustain and dps, or deadeye, etc.

It works "okai" in WvW, with food, ascended gear and infuz, runes and sigils and may be allies close. It doesn't work really fine in PvP because everything is polished, burst is almost half less the numbers compared to WvW so you need more skill, more knowledge, a good reading and reaction of the situation.. . This is really masochism to play fresh air weaver in pvp, or you're a legend player with bionic eyes and fingers. Better play fresh air tempest and spam schoking aura for 5 players, it's 10 times easier. And in OW it's worst, because you have to wait 15 seconds between mobs, worst weapon for OW...

[Helicity.3416]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > > @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

> > > >

> > > > Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

> > >

> > > To be fair, weaver damage isn't really there anymore...

> >

> > I wouldn't say that, FA weaver has pretty competitive damage output still, but the trade-off is that sometimes you're just going to get wrecked (mostly by thieves).

> >

> > Such is life.

> >

> > https://imgur.com/ASZD1Wn

>

>

> Yes it could, but : in WvW, against class with no invu/block, no stab when you backstab them.

> You could also play with gimmicks : sigil of celerity + sigil of severance + arcane Lockdown, so with air/earth you proc (weakness) + fury+quickness+240ferocity, for your burst fire/air + Electric discharge + Electric discharge +air #2 #3 ; or if you use weaveself earth/air, air/earth, air/air and wait for fire/air, air/fire, air/air, a bit longer but more buff, more dps. You're pretty sure to OS everybody : War / rev with protection or defense etc, but it's clearly not elem newbie friendly build; you have to know how to trigger all the differents buffs, to swap and rotate attunements while casting skills and reading the fight, ... and to place yourself, kite etc. If you fight against 2 or 3 players, or another class with blocks/stab or a trailblazer necro/mirage etc, you die, very fast or you have to flee very fast.

> The big issue is the serrated DPS, if you miss your burst you have only kitten skills or skills with delay (dragon's tooth, shattersone etc) to wait for the next one. This isn't true with mesmer for example, for almost the same burst but twice the sustain and dps, or deadeye, etc.

> It works "okai" in WvW, with food, ascended gear and infuz, runes and sigils and may be allies close. It doesn't work really fine in PvP because everything is polished, burst is almost half less the numbers compared to WvW so you need more skill, more knowledge, a good reading and reaction of the situation.. . This is really masochism to play fresh air weaver in pvp, or you're a legend player with bionic eyes and fingers. Better play fresh air tempest and spam schoking aura for 5 players, it's 10 times easier. And in OW it's worst, because you have to wait 15 seconds between mobs, worst weapon for OW...

 

Oh don't get me wrong, it's not a "top tier" class/build that plays for you like some of the more braindead meta classes out there.

I just don't agree that it's /useless/ or /unplayable/ like some drama llamas make it out to be.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > > @"Helicity.3416" said:

> > > > @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > It's low because the devs want you to play weaver to deal damage as ele. trading all sustain and survival for damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Meanwhile holosmith does more damage while having insane survival, stealth. super speed, and insane self healing :)

> > > >

> > > > To be fair, weaver damage isn't really there anymore...

> > >

> > > I wouldn't say that, FA weaver has pretty competitive damage output still, but the trade-off is that sometimes you're just going to get wrecked (mostly by thieves).

> > >

> > > Such is life.

> > >

> > > https://imgur.com/ASZD1Wn

> >

> >

> > Yes it could, but : in WvW, against class with no invu/block, no stab when you backstab them.

> > You could also play with gimmicks : sigil of celerity + sigil of severance + arcane Lockdown, so with air/earth you proc (weakness) + fury+quickness+240ferocity, for your burst fire/air + Electric discharge + Electric discharge +air #2 #3 ; or if you use weaveself earth/air, air/earth, air/air and wait for fire/air, air/fire, air/air, a bit longer but more buff, more dps. You're pretty sure to OS everybody : War / rev with protection or defense etc, but it's clearly not elem newbie friendly build; you have to know how to trigger all the differents buffs, to swap and rotate attunements while casting skills and reading the fight, ... and to place yourself, kite etc. If you fight against 2 or 3 players, or another class with blocks/stab or a trailblazer necro/mirage etc, you die, very fast or you have to flee very fast.

> > The big issue is the serrated DPS, if you miss your burst you have only kitten skills or skills with delay (dragon's tooth, shattersone etc) to wait for the next one. This isn't true with mesmer for example, for almost the same burst but twice the sustain and dps, or deadeye, etc.

> > It works "okai" in WvW, with food, ascended gear and infuz, runes and sigils and may be allies close. It doesn't work really fine in PvP because everything is polished, burst is almost half less the numbers compared to WvW so you need more skill, more knowledge, a good reading and reaction of the situation.. . This is really masochism to play fresh air weaver in pvp, or you're a legend player with bionic eyes and fingers. Better play fresh air tempest and spam schoking aura for 5 players, it's 10 times easier. And in OW it's worst, because you have to wait 15 seconds between mobs, worst weapon for OW...

>

> Oh don't get me wrong, it's not a "top tier" class/build that plays for you like some of the more braindead meta classes out there.

> I just don't agree that it's /useless/ or /unplayable/ like some drama llamas make it out to be.

 

 

So we agree.

 

[Zeesh.7286]

Wait.. we still use scepter? Ummm what? *weeps in nostalgia over the lost FA burst while dying to similarly OP holo damage which hasn't been nerfed*

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> Wait.. we still use scepter? Ummm what? *weeps in nostalgia over the lost FA burst while dying to similarly OP holo damage which hasn't been nerfed*

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2WUXKvMA-zVhYBRDbIISxgyOCS4MCTC0yCwWHkwYD8WiYZD-w

You kill everything in <2sec.

Can use sigil of Cleansing over Celerity, mostly if you roam alone; Arcane precision to have +15% precision a bit longer but less sustain, etc etc.

Rune of speed, or Zephyrite are also very nice but you lose a lot of DPS, so it can hurt badly the burst. Or whatever you want. (Eagle, Rage, Air, ogre, etc)

And you take 3 defensive/breakstun utility skills : arcane shield, armor of earth, ToF, signet of air, flash, etc. The healing skill you want, the elite skill you want.

 

Fresh air is not dead in WvW, but you need to choose your enemies and the field very carefully, to avoid the newcomers and backstabs, because everything can kill you too in 2sec if you have on CD arcane shield, flash ...

If you want to brawl alone versus 10 players it's defenitly not the weapon not the build you want.

[Sytriel.9413]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > @"Zeesh.7286" said:

> > Wait.. we still use scepter? Ummm what? *weeps in nostalgia over the lost FA burst while dying to similarly OP holo damage which hasn't been nerfed*

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAs2WUXKvMA-zVhYBRDbIISxgyOCS4MCTC0yCwWHkwYD8WiYZD-w

> You kill everything in <2sec.

> Can use sigil of Cleansing over Celerity, mostly if you roam alone; Arcane precision to have +15% precision a bit longer but less sustain, etc etc.

> Rune of speed, or Zephyrite are also very nice but you lose a lot of DPS, so it can hurt badly the burst. Or whatever you want. (Eagle, Rage, Air, ogre, etc)

> And you take 3 defensive/breakstun utility skills : arcane shield, armor of earth, ToF, signet of air, flash, etc. The healing skill you want, the elite skill you want.

>

> Fresh air is not dead in WvW, but you need to choose your enemies and the field very carefully, to avoid the newcomers and backstabs, because everything can kill you too in 2sec if you have on CD arcane shield, flash ...

> If you want to brawl alone versus 10 players it's defenitly not the weapon not the build you want.

 

Why trait One with Air? Wouldn't Ferocious Winds be a better option here? One of the key points of FA builds is to stay in Air as much as possible so One with Air seems redundant. Or am I missing something from your build?

[Junkpile.7439]

Core damage is problem. Everybody knows that weaver is op.