Please consider toning down Reaper

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> Nerf the chill condition (not its application) and reaper will be fine.

>

> Except spinal shivers, that skill does 5-6k casually from range.

My goodness... play proper builds!

 

The game is full of builds that deal a ton of damage, but diminish grave digger and spinal shivers to 2k critical damage at the same time.

 

It's always the same people that complain in the same way. Absurd. Stop trying to influence balancing with your bronze division understanding of the game.

 

Seriously...

 

[Tayga.3192]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> My goodness... play proper builds!

 

https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/necromancer-reaper

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Reaper's benefiting from the same pros that core necro is: not enough viable classes and power builds that are able to punish it quickly and sufficiently.

 

Do I think reaper is an issue? No. Do I think necro has some issues? Yes.

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > > @"Dhemize.8649" said:

> > > > > > I think the fact that the OP is listing multiple builds is a credit to the diversity the class is running. It's a good sign people are using various methods and skills. It's mainly a problem when you see a class always using the same build. Then you know the community is acknowledging a problem.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only thing I agree with and don't like is lich auto attacking. Tone it down some. This coming from a reaper main.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will give you opposite side of the coin, the real problem is when a class can make anything work, if you can make core power or condi scourge power or condi and power reaper there is a REALLY good chance that instead of having "good balance" of the specs, the specs are just broken so they can take almost anything and do good on it anyways

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You're going to have to define what you mean by "make things work".

> > >

> > > if you have a class that can make almost if not all specs and ideas work, good chance something is broken.

> > > If you can make a good build without minmaxing then minmaxed one will be op

> >

> > This still doesn't define what it means to make something work.

>

> aight,

> if you have good player on power core, condi core, condi scourge, power scourge or power reaper they can reach high ranking, pull their weight and be much more viable then almost any other off meta spec. If you try to off meta as some of the other classes it usually ends up being meme worthy.

You can quite literally directly counter comp "meta" builds with some "meme" builds since they don't need to cover for all possible bullshit from conquest. You can tunnel a build so hard that it shuts down completely other builds, you can't do that in conquest since most of the time the build is not that great against the other 4 people, but here you just need to worry about just one extra.

 

[Dhemize.8649]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Dhemize.8649" said:

> > I think the fact that the OP is listing multiple builds is a credit to the diversity the class is running. It's a good sign people are using various methods and skills. It's mainly a problem when you see a class always using the same build. Then you know the community is acknowledging a problem.

> >

> > The only thing I agree with and don't like is lich auto attacking. Tone it down some. This coming from a reaper main.

>

> I will give you opposite side of the coin, the real problem is when a class can make anything work, if you can make core power or condi scourge power or condi and power reaper there is a REALLY good chance that instead of having "good balance" of the specs, the specs are just broken so they can take almost anything and do good on it anyways

>

 

...Huh?

 

So then you're suggesting that the class gets pigeonholed into only one build and playstyle? If a class can make use of various builds then it's better rounded than a class that only has the one option. Literally every class should be like that or else what's the point of being able to select builds? You're going in the opposite direction of what this game should strive to be.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Dhemize.8649" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Dhemize.8649" said:

> > > I think the fact that the OP is listing multiple builds is a credit to the diversity the class is running. It's a good sign people are using various methods and skills. It's mainly a problem when you see a class always using the same build. Then you know the community is acknowledging a problem.

> > >

> > > The only thing I agree with and don't like is lich auto attacking. Tone it down some. This coming from a reaper main.

> >

> > I will give you opposite side of the coin, the real problem is when a class can make anything work, if you can make core power or condi scourge power or condi and power reaper there is a REALLY good chance that instead of having "good balance" of the specs, the specs are just broken so they can take almost anything and do good on it anyways

> >

>

> ...Huh?

>

> So then you're suggesting that the class gets pigeonholed into only one build and playstyle? If a class can make use of various builds then it's better rounded than a class that only has the one option. Literally every class should be like that or else what's the point of being able to select builds? You're going in the opposite direction of what this game should strive to be.

 

should we strive for base mechanic so broken that it carries any build you wanna make with it? lets triple the dmg on pets so ranger can take random talents and still be good. I mean the builds will be very different, one ranger with 1shot you with pet while being super tank, another will 1shot you with pet while being squishy but also being able to 1shot you himself.

buff every shatter, Ill take random traits and burst people anyways, plenty of options and gameplay, let me 1shot you as support or 1shot you as power or condi with or without portal, I mean we will have options right?

The reason we dont have many "options" for meta build is mainly because half if not more traits are objectively fucking trash.

Look at the reaper build mentioned.

https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/necromancer-reaper

What REAL options for change do you have there trait wise?

In soul reaping you can take vitality + healing or damage when entering/leaving shroud.

and maybe lesser blood well vs lesser vamp sig. thats all the choices you get, everything else is objectively bad for the build.

You can still take other shit and do good but it has nothing to do with the "good balance that gives many options" and everything to do with how easy necro is to play and how easy its to gain shroud and how broken shroud is

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Dhemize.8649" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Dhemize.8649" said:

> > > > I think the fact that the OP is listing multiple builds is a credit to the diversity the class is running. It's a good sign people are using various methods and skills. It's mainly a problem when you see a class always using the same build. Then you know the community is acknowledging a problem.

> > > >

> > > > The only thing I agree with and don't like is lich auto attacking. Tone it down some. This coming from a reaper main.

> > >

> > > I will give you opposite side of the coin, the real problem is when a class can make anything work, if you can make core power or condi scourge power or condi and power reaper there is a REALLY good chance that instead of having "good balance" of the specs, the specs are just broken so they can take almost anything and do good on it anyways

> > >

> >

> > ...Huh?

> >

> > So then you're suggesting that the class gets pigeonholed into only one build and playstyle? If a class can make use of various builds then it's better rounded than a class that only has the one option. Literally every class should be like that or else what's the point of being able to select builds? You're going in the opposite direction of what this game should strive to be.

>

> should we strive for base mechanic so broken that it carries any build you wanna make with it? lets triple the dmg on pets so ranger can take random talents and still be good. I mean the builds will be very different, one ranger with 1shot you with pet while being super tank, another will 1shot you with pet while being squishy but also being able to 1shot you himself.

> buff every shatter, Ill take random traits and burst people anyways, plenty of options and gameplay, let me 1shot you as support or 1shot you as power or condi with or without portal, I mean we will have options right?

> The reason we dont have many "options" for meta build is mainly because half if not more traits are objectively kitten trash.

> Look at the reaper build mentioned.

> https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/necromancer-reaper

> What REAL options for change do you have there trait wise?

> In soul reaping you can take vitality + healing or damage when entering/leaving shroud.

> and maybe lesser blood well vs lesser vamp sig. thats all the choices you get, everything else is objectively bad for the build.

> You can still take other kitten and do good but it has nothing to do with the "good balance that gives many options" and everything to do with how easy necro is to play and how easy its to gain shroud and how broken shroud is

LOL looking at conquest build for 2v2s that is rich.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Vancho.8750" im not speaking about 2v2, dont care about it. its made for bunker players to have their fun for a bit before they go back to afking on a node for the upcoming months.

[kybraga.7103]

The issue with Necromancer in general right now is the lack of management and more just an overabundance of life force generation. Numbers need slapped the same way that other classes got their own numbers slapped. Similar to how Tactics/Strength/Disc Warrior is somewhat starved from Adrenaline due to lack of certain traits/utilities... Necromancer needs its own management reconsidered.

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Vancho.8750" im not speaking about 2v2, dont care about it. its made for bunker players to have their fun for a bit before they go back to afking on a node for the upcoming months.

Pretty sure the thread was made about Reaper being "too good" for 2v2s, and not just the little bit above average build for conquest.And i dont know any build for Reaper that can bunker on nodes.

Having core,HOT and POF specks being viable at the same time is a win for the balance team (even though i despise POF elites), and what is nice is that they soft counter one another.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Vancho.8750" im not speaking about 2v2, dont care about it. its made for bunker players to have their fun for a bit before they go back to afking on a node for the upcoming months.

> Pretty sure the thread was made about Reaper being "too good" for 2v2s, and not just the little bit above average build for conquest.And i dont know any build for Reaper that can bunker on nodes.

> Having core,HOT and POF specks being viable at the same time is a win for the balance team (even though i despise POF elites), and what is nice is that they soft counter one another.

 

"" This build is far too powerful and currently overperforming in Conquest(and 2v2 but that's ok) ""

I speak of conquest, I can see reaper being busted in 2v2 when paired with tempest but I dont tare about 2v2 to educate myself whats good or not.

Its not hard to make every spec viable, its hard to make all of them viable while being balanced.

[KrHome.1920]

Half of the builds in the game are busted when paired with support. And reaper is one f the weaker ones just for the fact that it can not be healed in shroud and the duo needs better timing for heals than other duos.

 

Esp. that BM SR reaper build in its different variants lacks life force generation and is at the lower end of sustain in the game. That's why I don't play it in solo Q. A ton of builds on several classes outsustain it with ease.

 

The game became imbalanced trash and never recovered once anet introduced support specs with heart of thorns.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Half of the builds in the game are busted when paired with with support. And reaper is one f the weaker ones just for the fact that it can not be healed in shroud and the duo needs better timing for heals than other duos.

>

> Esp. that BM SR reaper build in its different variants lacks life force generation and is at the lower end of sustain in the game. That's why I don't play it in solo Q. A ton of builds on several classes outsustain it with ease.

>

> The game became imbalanced trash and never recovered once anet introduced support specs with heart of thorns.

 

I don't see how the of generation on the build is particularly bad. Almost everything take in there to gain LF or stunbreak.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > Half of the builds in the game are busted when paired with with support. And reaper is one f the weaker ones just for the fact that it can not be healed in shroud and the duo needs better timing for heals than other duos.

> >

> > Esp. that BM SR reaper build in its different variants lacks life force generation and is at the lower end of sustain in the game. That's why I don't play it in solo Q. A ton of builds on several classes outsustain it with ease.

> >

> > The game became imbalanced trash and never recovered once anet introduced support specs with heart of thorns.

>

> I don't see how the of generation on the build is particularly bad. Almost everything take in there to gain LF or stunbreak.

It has no passive LF generation and that fact is its biggest counter. As a result it is extremely susceptible to kiting shroud. That's how I (and every other half decent player) counter the build with ease. It's extremely easy to wreck that build - just don't facetank it and it's done in less than 30 seconds.

 

In the feb25 patch reaper lost its burst and so the demand for sustain increased. But traditionally most of necro's LF generation is bound to offense (weapon skills) and being attacked at specific moments (spectral skills). And this is a problem if your encounter knows what he is doing.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > > Half of the builds in the game are busted when paired with with support. And reaper is one f the weaker ones just for the fact that it can not be healed in shroud and the duo needs better timing for heals than other duos.

> > >

> > > Esp. that BM SR reaper build in its different variants lacks life force generation and is at the lower end of sustain in the game. That's why I don't play it in solo Q. A ton of builds on several classes outsustain it with ease.

> > >

> > > The game became imbalanced trash and never recovered once anet introduced support specs with heart of thorns.

> >

> > I don't see how the of generation on the build is particularly bad. Almost everything take in there to gain LF or stunbreak.

> It has no passive LF generation and that fact is its biggest counter.

Right. But eternal life and signets aren't realty that great.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Vancho.8750" im not speaking about 2v2, dont care about it. its made for bunker players to have their fun for a bit before they go back to afking on a node for the upcoming months.

> Pretty sure the thread was made about Reaper being "too good" for 2v2s, and not just the little bit above average build for conquest.And i dont know any build for Reaper that can bunker on nodes.

> Having core,HOT and POF specks being viable at the same time is a win for the balance team (even though i despise POF elites), and what is nice is that they soft counter one another.

 

No, it was not. If you read past the title you would know this, it's literally the first line of the post.

 

"This build is far too powerful and currently overperforming in Conquest(and 2v2 but that's ok)" That means that it's far too powerful in conquest, and the fact that it's too strong in 2v2 is ok because that's kind of it's role/design to be the best DPS to team with a healer/support. Now double reaper being strong, or reaper + another dps, that's 100% an issue with reaper being too powerful in general. The fact you can make reaper work with ANYTHING in 2v2 means that the class is clearly overperforming as it's supposed to be a glassy DPS and not a duelist/1v1er but right now it's a glassy team fighting dps that can also take 1v1's against the best 1v1 builds consistently.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

As long as it doesnt start with life force then its far from anything else on other classes that should be addressed first.

 

Reaper is easy to kill with because they are pretty much given everything you would want that helps you kill a target in general like CC, vulnerability, and poison on top of boosted dmg traits.

 

The playstyle in action however is very counterable. But most people are probably playing with randoms and using the same conquest build.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Half of the builds in the game are busted when paired with support. And reaper is one f the weaker ones just for the fact that it can not be healed in shroud and the duo needs better timing for heals than other duos.

 

Reaper is currently the absolutely strongest DPS and class in general to pair with a tempest or ANY healer. How can someone say something like this? lol

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> I think he is mashing up two different builds here, the OG full damage spite one and the sustain Blood one.

I didn't name a single trait in the spite trait line. I assume blood magic/soul reaping/reaper as it's the best 3 trait lines for reaper.

Reaper also doesn't stop stomping at higher ratings..it's the best pub stomper AND high end DPS. The only class better at carrying atm is thief at the highest ratings. Holosmith is nearly unplayable vs reaper and just gets eaten alive by it.

[Fueki.4753]

In my opinion, Reapers are less of a problem than **all** the bunkers, Holosmiths, runaway Thieves and many popular condition builds.

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> Reaper's benefiting from the same pros that core necro is: not enough viable classes and power builds that are able to punish it quickly and sufficiently.

>

> Do I think reaper is an issue? No. Do I think necro has some issues? Yes.

 

Holo and thief can both pressure reaper very well, the issue is securing the kill due to worm, shroud 2 and spectral walk(speed runes too if running them). Reaper disengage is insane. It's the same issue holo had pre-nerf.

[TheBigPlay.7504]

reaper is fine

 

[Starbreaker.6507]

Is this the OP's weekly "nerf a profession I don't play" thread?

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Vancho.8750" im not speaking about 2v2, dont care about it. its made for bunker players to have their fun for a bit before they go back to afking on a node for the upcoming months.

> > Pretty sure the thread was made about Reaper being "too good" for 2v2s, and not just the little bit above average build for conquest.And i dont know any build for Reaper that can bunker on nodes.

> > Having core,HOT and POF specks being viable at the same time is a win for the balance team (even though i despise POF elites), and what is nice is that they soft counter one another.

>

> No, it was not. If you read past the title you would know this, it's literally the first line of the post.

>

> "This build is far too powerful and currently overperforming in Conquest(and 2v2 but that's ok)" That means that it's far too powerful in conquest, and the fact that it's too strong in 2v2 is ok because that's kind of it's role/design to be the best DPS to team with a healer/support. Now double reaper being strong, or reaper + another dps, that's 100% an issue with reaper being too powerful in general. The fact you can make reaper work with ANYTHING in 2v2 means that the class is clearly overperforming as it's supposed to be a glassy DPS and not a duelist/1v1er but right now it's a glassy team fighting dps that can also take 1v1's against the best 1v1 builds consistently.

Aaah here is your mistake, necro is not a Glass profession if it was it wouldn't be able to handle teamfights, they way it it designed it can handle the constant chip damage in there, but since it doesn't have a "stop all damage" skill it is susceptible to coordinated damage and cc. Those 4k to 6k damage skills on reaper are not glass speck damage, the glass builds base damage starts around the 10k some are still one shots but are too gimmicky to be viable like for example the signet Berserker.

But i can give you that Lich is dumb, it can down people fast just by basic attacks, but it is also a death trap, it is really shitty skill, i wish it was more well rounded instead of being a gimmick.

 

[Threather.9354]

Lich is annoying. dying in 4 hits with 22k hp