Please consider toning down Reaper

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > Reaper's benefiting from the same pros that core necro is: not enough viable classes and power builds that are able to punish it quickly and sufficiently.

> >

> > Do I think reaper is an issue? No. Do I think necro has some issues? Yes.

>

> Holo and thief can both pressure reaper very well, the issue is securing the kill due to worm, shroud 2 and spectral walk(speed runes too if running them). Reaper disengage is insane. It's the same issue holo had pre-nerf.

 

Holo can have better on-demand mobility, and Thief can have better on-demand mobility and positioning skills... So when we nerf those, then we can talk about nerfing one of the profession with the lowest amount of access to movement and positioning skills. And one that is designed without certain utility functions in exchange for that second health bar.

 

Edit- And if you’re main balance concern here is about “securing the kill”, like you wrote, then we have a very huge list of skills across all professions that we need to nerf or get rid of... But I don’t think the community would be happy with the 1990s design on stationary mmo combat in GW2.

[Vancho.8750]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > Reaper's benefiting from the same pros that core necro is: not enough viable classes and power builds that are able to punish it quickly and sufficiently.

> > >

> > > Do I think reaper is an issue? No. Do I think necro has some issues? Yes.

> >

> > Holo and thief can both pressure reaper very well, the issue is securing the kill due to worm, shroud 2 and spectral walk(speed runes too if running them). Reaper disengage is insane. It's the same issue holo had pre-nerf.

>

> Holo can have better on-demand mobility, and Thief can have better on-demand mobility and positioning skills... So when we nerf those, then we can talk about nerfing one of the profession with the lowest amount of access to movement and positioning skills. And one that is designed without certain utility functions in exchange for that second health bar.

>

> Edit- And if you’re main balance concern here is about “securing the kill”, like you wrote, then we have a very huge list of skills across all professions that we need to nerf or get rid of... But I don’t think the community would be happy with the 1990s design on stationary mmo combat in GW2.

You forgot Shiro Rev, even teleports can't get them off you only death works for them.

 

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Vancho.8750" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > > > Reaper's benefiting from the same pros that core necro is: not enough viable classes and power builds that are able to punish it quickly and sufficiently.

> > > >

> > > > Do I think reaper is an issue? No. Do I think necro has some issues? Yes.

> > >

> > > Holo and thief can both pressure reaper very well, the issue is securing the kill due to worm, shroud 2 and spectral walk(speed runes too if running them). Reaper disengage is insane. It's the same issue holo had pre-nerf.

> >

> > Holo can have better on-demand mobility, and Thief can have better on-demand mobility and positioning skills... So when we nerf those, then we can talk about nerfing one of the profession with the lowest amount of access to movement and positioning skills. And one that is designed without certain utility functions in exchange for that second health bar.

> >

> > Edit- And if you’re main balance concern here is about “securing the kill”, like you wrote, then we have a very huge list of skills across all professions that we need to nerf or get rid of... But I don’t think the community would be happy with the 1990s design on stationary mmo combat in GW2.

> You forgot Shiro Rev, even teleports can't get them off you only death works for them.

>

 

Yes, there are other professions with movement utility too, I just used holo and thief because the poster brought them up.

 

The op may have grown accustom to other games where you have standing still hack and slash combat, but I can guarantee that most don’t want that old style of mmo combat. There are enough games out there like that to play.

[Khalisto.5780]

No thanks, i rather see necro or scourge nerfed

[jpsssss.7530]

Have you considered the fact that since Necromancer is the only class without ANY damage ignore effects (block, stealth, invulnerable, evade) in its skills that it deserves to have power elsewhere to compensate.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"jpsssss.7530" said:

> Have you considered the fact that since Necromancer is the only class without ANY damage ignore effects (block, stealth, invulnerable, evade) in its skills that it deserves to have power elsewhere to compensate.

 

Did you consider that Necromancers don't have these things because of their Shrouds?

And then they can also have Carapace, if they go for Death magic.

Necromancers have their fair share of defensive mechanics.

 

[Bazsi.2734]

What is this? Viable power necro builds in my PvP? Kill it quick so i can go back to complaining about core condi! Skills do damage! Has shroud! REEEEEEE!

[Shiyo.3578]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> Nerf the chill condition (not its application) and reaper will be fine.

>

> Except spinal shivers, that skill does 5-6k casually from range.

 

Yeah chill might be too powerful as a ccondition.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > Nerf the chill condition (not its application) and reaper will be fine.

> >

> > Except spinal shivers, that skill does 5-6k casually from range.

>

> Yeah chill might be too powerful as a ccondition.

The condition strength is balanced around impact, frequency and duration. There is no "too strong" when you don't look isolated at the mechanic and ignore the frequency and duration like you do it here. Such a statement showcases (again!) a complete lack of understanding of game mechanics.

 

Is resistance too strong as a boon? I mean it nullifies every single condition in the game, including chill.

 

No it is not! Because it is very rare and has only very short durations.

 

And I am using resistance as an example here, because necro has no access to it. Otherwise I bet you would just ignore that message as biased.

 

Reaper lacks range and the whole spec is balanced around chill to keep the target at range. And it is still countered by mobility and range, because chill doesn't save you from a mobile or ranged build, that can cleanse conditions. What's so hard to understand about that?

 

Again: unqualified persons should not discuss about balance. People like you will find broken stuff left and right in the game, because your problem is not the game's balancing but your lack of competence. I guarantee you I can craft several builds out of traits and skills that are qualified as unviable by you and I will beat you with these builds. It's ridiculous.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Again: unqualified persons should not discuss about balance.

 

Idk why you think I am bronze but sure let's assume I am. (trying to fall to bronze for you though, playing mesmer + thief in 2v2)

 

I am not the person who noticed "Chill is strong".

 

Oh and, resistance is also pretty strong just because resistance runes exist. Otherwise it's fine.

 

Chill would be fine if it didn't slow recharge by 66% (stronger than another rare boon, alacrity) on top of giving movement reduction.

 

I have no idea why I keep replying to you, I should just stop using forums.

[Shiyo.3578]

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers 2.6 scaling at 3 boons, boon removal, chilled, and zero animation. This didn't get nerfed in the feb patch and not only hits waaay too hard it also goes against febs design philosophy of "easy tells/easily avoidable skills hit hard" - spinal shivers has no animation and is nearly impossible to avoid.

[Tycura.1982]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers 2.6 scaling at 3 boons, boon removal, chilled, and zero animation. This didn't get nerfed in the feb patch and not only hits waaay too hard it also goes against febs design philosophy of "easy tells/easily avoidable skills hit hard" - spinal shivers has no animation and is nearly impossible to avoid.

 

It does have an animation. Not a super flashy one but it's pretty noticeable if you're watching their hands with standard models on.

[Shiyo.3578]

That is not an animation dude. I'm sorry.

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> That is not an animation dude. I'm sorry.

The Spinal Shivers animation is almost as visible as something like Decapitate. The Necro gets a big black smoke cloud around their hand and will wave their hand back and forth before pushing outwards with it. The black smoke stuff on the hand even leaves trails.

 

If you know the Nec is on his A/F set and you see smoky black trails you should probably try dodging.

[wevh.2903]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > Again: unqualified persons should not discuss about balance.

>

> Idk why you think I am bronze but sure let's assume I am. (trying to fall to bronze for you though, playing mesmer + thief in 2v2)

>

> I am not the person who noticed "Chill is strong".

>

> Oh and, resistance is also pretty strong just because resistance runes exist. Otherwise it's fine.

>

> Chill would be fine if it didn't slow recharge by 66% (stronger than another rare boon, alacrity) on top of giving movement reduction.

>

> I have no idea why I keep replying to you, I should just stop using forums.

 

Imagine having resistance runes but still getting lot of ppl complainig about some "condition meta" xd

[Svez Poizon XD.5268]

**If devs read, please check "life force rework example below".**

 

Only thing that is very strong is LIch form.

You counter their quickness with slow(which fully neutralize quickness and further applies its effect).

With some armor/defensive effects you can highly reduce their damage.

 

Life force mechanic is ok, maybe it could get reworked : Life force pool to scale with your current health % . So for example if you have 100% hp then your Life force pool can be 100% size, but if you have 10% health then your life force pool is 10% size as well. So other words buffing survivability even more while in shroud would come up well with this rework. Either tankiness or instead of being more tanky, let it self heal more so it can keep that current health pool high which would also make life force pool high as well. Necro would be initially tankier but if bursted and focused it would just have no chance to keep going endlessly.

 

About necro chill spam, i think it is ok where it is. First of all, power builds not extend condi durations so short chills aren't that strong, but long Chills are. Because for every second under chill, you lose more seconds of cooldowns. So it is cleansable. It is not that long but it can stack to last long. I don't see this as problem.

[Svez Poizon XD.5268]

It just get's annoying when you drop necro's health to low numbers then it pop up 20k shroud and last 10 ++ seconds more.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"wevh.2903" said:

> Imagine having resistance runes but still getting lot of ppl complainig about some "condition meta" xd

 

That rune is bonkers, especially on revenant.

 

Melandru is also pretty good not gonna lie.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers 2.6 scaling at 3 boons, boon removal, chilled, and zero animation. This didn't get nerfed in the feb patch and not only hits waaay too hard it also goes against febs design philosophy of "easy tells/easily avoidable skills hit hard" - spinal shivers has no animation and is nearly impossible to avoid.

 

And how many hundreds of skills across professions that do not have “easy tells/easily avoidable skills hit hard”? But you only single out Necro?

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said:

> It just get's annoying when you drop necro's health to low numbers then it pop up 20k shroud and last 10 ++ seconds more.

 

Wait ... nerf the WHOLE concept of a class because it annoys players in PVP? Is that serious?

[snoow.1694]

Couldn‘t have described it better, Reaper needs a huge damage modifier, sustain and chill duration nerf. It is tearing everything down at the moment. Also fighting against 2 Reapers is pretty much a gg for the enemies

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"snoow.1694" said:

> Couldn‘t have described it better, Reaper needs a huge damage modifier, sustain and chill duration nerf. It is tearing everything down at the moment. Also fighting against 2 Reapers is pretty much a gg for the enemies

 

no, dont nerf everything. the last thing we need is more dead specs. nerf damage, OR shroud, OR soft cc. Not all.

and not even much, reaper is too strong but not by much, and most importantly reaper is keeping some of the bullshit in line with their damage, who else can kill a bunker guard of not reaper?

[Tharan.9085]

Dodging is hard I get

[TrOtskY.5927]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers 2.6 scaling at 3 boons, boon removal, chilled, and zero animation. This didn't get nerfed in the feb patch and not only hits waaay too hard it also goes against febs design philosophy of "easy tells/easily avoidable skills hit hard" - spinal shivers has no animation and is nearly impossible to avoid.

>

> And how many hundreds of skills across professions that do not have “easy tells/easily avoidable skills hit hard”? But you only single out Necro?

 

This is a fair point, when I'm playing guard and use scepter 3 it's so instantaneous that by the time the animation is out the opponent is already immobilized, stuff like this needs a heavy fix, damaging abilities and CCs need clearer tells across the board imo

[DeceiverX.8361]

If you want reaper to be best when left alone in a teamfight, all you're doing is making it a vault spam thief with less mobility and lack of +1 capability.

I know you're a thief main Shiyo. I play both thief and reaper, and in almost all contexts, it's a skill matchup. I've posted extensively about this very subject before.

 

Nerf speed runes because they're OP on everything.

The reason people take RO and not BB is because the BB heal is too weak to justify, the shroud degen rate is too fast without it, and the RShroud animations are too slow to bother with given the game's powercreep on the other professions.

 

Drill it into your head that the reaper's health pool doesn't matter but rather its LF pool is everything. Counter it and weave the 10s downtime windows and it'll die without much of a fight unless it outplays you with GS.

 

The rest is necro 101 and just screams you don't know how to deal with it. It literally counters conditions and diving in as an entire class. That's the entire premise of Shroud.