Lucentfir.7430 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > If you thought for a second you were going to get some support on this idea, I'm sorry to say you're sadly mistaken, especially when you're talking to the same player audience that won't even support a dueling option in PVE because it's always the fear of the worse, getting spammed or harassed by some scary dueler pvp manic that won't leave you alone unless you accept their duel invite. Leave the PvE players be with a pure PVE mode, just have to accept that people/PVE players don't want any form of PVP in their game mode when you have specifically designated modes for it. Even though the health of those modes are not well supported. > > Exactly. If this playing style is so important to the OP and players like him/her, then they should be advocating for improvements in the current PvP format rather than shoving a square peg in a round hole by forcing PvP into PvE. True, but to be fair, when it does come to those game modes, advocating for good changes and the sorts to devs is like giving your feedback to a brick wall, or putting your feedback into mailbox that has its content dropped straight into the incinerator. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggranya.5201 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"Nightcore.5621" said: > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > @"Nightcore.5621" said: > > > > > > Look at pvp this game, wvw is empty, pvp full of bots, evey pvp related in this game fails so i vote for no > > > > > > > > > > WvW is not empty. WvW is the place for open world PvP. So there is no need to implement it because it is already there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I play wvw 3 - 4 haours eveyday and sometimes i only see like 4 People... If Thats not dead... > > > > > > If there's no one to fight in WvW, then there will not be anyone to fight in an OWPvP setup either, unless players are really looking to gank OW players. > > > > We both know that is exactly what they are looking for. Why are they looking for that? Since they never answer when i ask for a reason, i don't know. We can only guess. > > > > Also, no surprise that the OP disappeared as soon as they made this thread. Makes one wonder what satisfaction they get when they make these threads. But if i ask, they, to no ones suprise never aswer, so why bother asking? Well, let's see one more time... > > > > So OP, if you see this, would you kindly enlighten us? Just to change the usual script. > > I don't think that people like you, with your opinion and viewing of things, will ever get the answer, even if it's infront of them, because they don't read what's been written or they twist someones words to their fitting, or they pinpoint a specific sentence to counter someones argument and not talking about the whole thing that's been written. Nowhere in my post I've said people to be ganked and to implement PvP in the open world as it is now, with all its toxicity, game mechanics and viewing of things. I understand all of you being afraid of something different, I mean this is the pure reason WoW is such a nostalgia and many players play it to this day. People are afraid of little change, giving a chance to something new, different like this game for example. Many people don't give chance to GW2 because they don't understand it and they don't want to just like all of you don't want to understand this concept of an idea. What I wrote is act of wanting this game to change, to be better. PvE is dead for PvPers, WvW is dead for PvEers etc. What all of you want is to leave it like that, to separate the GW2 community in to different herds and to have nothing to do with them. My idea was just to give a simple option of open world PvPing with as less toxicity as possible and tbh in return I get the most toxic behaviour in return. You people don't even deserve this game when you don't think options to make it better and more compelling to the mass. And you don't get to decide what's best for the game, ArenaNet does, because that's what they do. This is their job, to make the hard decisions and to think for their baby. Not having trust in your studio shows how much of a fan you truly are. I've trusted the studio for years now, I believed there was going to be new expansion when people didn't, I've trusted there will be Cantha, mounts, Dragon Bash, Festival of the Four Winds, new SAB world, new raids, new fractals, and tbh I've never been let down, because I know what's best for the game, and I know ArenaNet have the same thinking. While others like yourself preffer to complain what not to add in the game while not giving a fresh new ideas... just use the same ingredients because they work for now. It's like treating cancer with prayers... just pray for it to be better. No! The studio needs to act, make hard decisions that even the player base doesn't know they need, want. You need to understand than you are never 100% sure what will come from an idea, because when you throw it on the ground and start kicking it, you aren't getting anything from it. > > PS: I didn't disappear. People have personal life outside of the game too you know? Since you seem to have missed this post (or simply ingored what they wrote) I'm just going to quote it, because it pretty much sums up all you need to know. Maybe you didn't disappear, or just felt called out by the truth. And now trying to deny it for some reason. Read Tarils post and you have all the information you need to never suggest this again. > @"Taril.8619" said: > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > Nowhere in my post I've said people to be ganked > > But what other purpose is there for adding in PvP into PvE zones? > > Also, you have to consider how something being implemented into the game will actually function. > > Maybe **YOU** want PvP in PvE zones and don't have intentions to gank people... But what about every other PvPer in the game? Can you say that none of them will use this situation to start ganking people? > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > I understand all of you being afraid of something different, I mean this is the pure reason WoW is such a nostalgia and many players play it to this day. > > This is not being "Afraid of something different". This is "Being tired of this exact thing in many other games which have become dumpster tier as a result". > > I've played most MMO's that exist. In **ALL** of them that had PvP and PvE mixed in an Open World have been trash. With the only notable exception being Eve Online, which has an emphasis on corporations controlling various points and there's occasional battles between corporations over strategic points (But outside of that, it's people ganking those in mining ships trying to earn some currency by harvesting rocks...) > > WoW Classic is also not just nostalgia fueled, it's also a solid game, before years of questionable additions ruined the game and turned it into a pile of garbage. It's worth noting that not all of the changes made were bad, but the bad decisions were monumentally awful (Things like the LFG system, flying mounts, wellfare Epics, the dismantling of the talent system, Vengeance mechanic, dumbing down all classes to remove any notable skill ceilings, random bonus stat rolls on gear (Warforge/Tertiary stats) etc) > > It's why TBC and WotLK are seen as the best era of WoW, because they implemented a lot of positive changes to the game (Such as Arena, better quests, improved classes and class balance (I.e. Tanks other than Warrior existed. Ret Paladin had more to do than just auto attack. Etc.), Faction advantages in PvP were diminished with the availability of Horde Paladins and Alliance Shamans etc. > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > What I wrote is act of wanting this game to change, to be better. PvE is dead for PvPers, WvW is dead for PvEers etc. What all of you want is to leave it like that, to separate the GW2 community in to different herds and to have nothing to do with them. > > But implementing PvP into PvE doesn't change this. > > PvE will still be dead for PvPers. Them coming into a PvE map to PvP doesn't change that. > > WvW will still be dead for PvEers. Getting ganked repeatedly in a PvE map won't change that. > > If you want to improve these things for these players, you have to give them incentives to try out the modes. Though, this is already somewhat the case, PvPers can still get skins from doing PvE. PvEers can get gear and Legendary materials from WvW. > > Just, these people don't **WANT** to play these other modes. That's why after 8 years, they still don't. > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > >You people don't even deserve this game when you don't think options to make it better and more compelling to the mass. > > The mass is PvE players. Not PvP players. > > Adding PvP to PvE maps adds nothing for PvE players. So... In what scenario do you think your suggestion is going to "Make it better and more compelling to the mass"? > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > >And you don't get to decide what's best for the game > > And neither do you. > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > >While others like yourself preffer to complain what not to add in the game while not giving a fresh new ideas... > > People are constantly giving fresh new ideas. > > Ideas like "Actually update PvP and WvW for the first time in 8 years" > > That's what would benefit the PvP and WvW community. Not shoehorning in PvP content into PvE content, to heck with the consequences it would have on the majority of the playerbase that doesn't play PvP and WvW for a reason. > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > >You need to understand than you are never 100% sure what will come from an idea > > You can be 100% sure, when you've literally experienced it many times over. > > PvP in PvE open world is not a new idea, it has been used by many, many MMO's over the years. To which it has constantly been complained about for the same reasons time and time again. > > That being, with unlimited targetting, it always devolves down to people being awful and just ganking players who have no desire to play PvP. > > While with limited targetting with toggled flags, everyone always complains that there's no-one to fight because no-one flags for PvP ever (Since no-one in these PvE environments cares about PvPing at that time... If they did want to PvP, they'd end up going to the dedicated PvP areas instead of toggling on PvP and hoping to run into someone else who's also flagged or willing to flag) > > The latter issue was always exacerbated by the fact that PvE zones often didn't have places to funnel players towards in order to engage in PvP. One of the issues that is typically solved by instanced PvP zones like Battlegrounds or Conquest maps that literally get people willing to PvP, stick them in a map and then show them some shared objectives to funnel towards to promote actual fighting (Otherwise you end up with stuff like WoW's Alterac Valley where people just rush past each other to go kill the boss to get the "PvP Rewards" from winning the match). It is even further crippled by flying mounts, so people in a zone don't see each other because everyone's just flying around at different heights and making their own way through a map (Compared without mounts/limited ground mounts, where people will often follow roads to not get mauled by the PvE enemies that will slow them down) > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said: > > > If you thought for a second you were going to get some support on this idea, I'm sorry to say you're sadly mistaken, especially when you're talking to the same player audience that won't even support a dueling option in PVE because it's always the fear of the worse, getting spammed or harassed by some scary dueler pvp manic that won't leave you alone unless you accept their duel invite. Leave the PvE players be with a pure PVE mode, just have to accept that people/PVE players don't want any form of PVP in their game mode when you have specifically designated modes for it. Even though the health of those modes are not well supported. > > > > Exactly. If this playing style is so important to the OP and players like him/her, then they should be advocating for improvements in the current PvP format rather than shoving a square peg in a round hole by forcing PvP into PvE. > > True, but to be fair, when it does come to those game modes, advocating for good changes and the sorts to devs is like giving your feedback to a brick wall, or putting your feedback into mailbox that has its content dropped straight into the incinerator. :'( true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"Nightcore.5621" said: > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > @"Nightcore.5621" said: > > > > > > > Look at pvp this game, wvw is empty, pvp full of bots, evey pvp related in this game fails so i vote for no > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW is not empty. WvW is the place for open world PvP. So there is no need to implement it because it is already there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I play wvw 3 - 4 haours eveyday and sometimes i only see like 4 People... If Thats not dead... > > > > > > > > If there's no one to fight in WvW, then there will not be anyone to fight in an OWPvP setup either, unless players are really looking to gank OW players. > > > > > > We both know that is exactly what they are looking for. Why are they looking for that? Since they never answer when i ask for a reason, i don't know. We can only guess. > > > > > > Also, no surprise that the OP disappeared as soon as they made this thread. Makes one wonder what satisfaction they get when they make these threads. But if i ask, they, to no ones suprise never aswer, so why bother asking? Well, let's see one more time... > > > > > > So OP, if you see this, would you kindly enlighten us? Just to change the usual script. > > > > I don't think that people like you, with your opinion and viewing of things, will ever get the answer, even if it's infront of them, because they don't read what's been written or they twist someones words to their fitting, or they pinpoint a specific sentence to counter someones argument and not talking about the whole thing that's been written. Nowhere in my post I've said people to be ganked and to implement PvP in the open world as it is now, with all its toxicity, game mechanics and viewing of things. I understand all of you being afraid of something different, I mean this is the pure reason WoW is such a nostalgia and many players play it to this day. People are afraid of little change, giving a chance to something new, different like this game for example. Many people don't give chance to GW2 because they don't understand it and they don't want to just like all of you don't want to understand this concept of an idea. What I wrote is act of wanting this game to change, to be better. PvE is dead for PvPers, WvW is dead for PvEers etc. What all of you want is to leave it like that, to separate the GW2 community in to different herds and to have nothing to do with them. My idea was just to give a simple option of open world PvPing with as less toxicity as possible and tbh in return I get the most toxic behaviour in return. You people don't even deserve this game when you don't think options to make it better and more compelling to the mass. And you don't get to decide what's best for the game, ArenaNet does, because that's what they do. This is their job, to make the hard decisions and to think for their baby. Not having trust in your studio shows how much of a fan you truly are. I've trusted the studio for years now, I believed there was going to be new expansion when people didn't, I've trusted there will be Cantha, mounts, Dragon Bash, Festival of the Four Winds, new SAB world, new raids, new fractals, and tbh I've never been let down, because I know what's best for the game, and I know ArenaNet have the same thinking. While others like yourself preffer to complain what not to add in the game while not giving a fresh new ideas... just use the same ingredients because they work for now. It's like treating cancer with prayers... just pray for it to be better. No! The studio needs to act, make hard decisions that even the player base doesn't know they need, want. You need to understand than you are never 100% sure what will come from an idea, because when you throw it on the ground and start kicking it, you aren't getting anything from it. > > > > PS: I didn't disappear. People have personal life outside of the game too you know? > > Since you seem to have missed this post (or simply ingored what they wrote) I'm just going to quote it, because it pretty much sums up all you need to know. Maybe you didn't disappear, or just felt called out by the truth. And now trying to deny it for some reason. Read Tarils post and you have all the information you need to never suggest this again. > > > @"Taril.8619" said: > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > > Nowhere in my post I've said people to be ganked > > > > But what other purpose is there for adding in PvP into PvE zones? > > > > Also, you have to consider how something being implemented into the game will actually function. > > > > Maybe **YOU** want PvP in PvE zones and don't have intentions to gank people... But what about every other PvPer in the game? Can you say that none of them will use this situation to start ganking people? > > > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > > I understand all of you being afraid of something different, I mean this is the pure reason WoW is such a nostalgia and many players play it to this day. > > > > This is not being "Afraid of something different". This is "Being tired of this exact thing in many other games which have become dumpster tier as a result". > > > > I've played most MMO's that exist. In **ALL** of them that had PvP and PvE mixed in an Open World have been trash. With the only notable exception being Eve Online, which has an emphasis on corporations controlling various points and there's occasional battles between corporations over strategic points (But outside of that, it's people ganking those in mining ships trying to earn some currency by harvesting rocks...) > > > > WoW Classic is also not just nostalgia fueled, it's also a solid game, before years of questionable additions ruined the game and turned it into a pile of garbage. It's worth noting that not all of the changes made were bad, but the bad decisions were monumentally awful (Things like the LFG system, flying mounts, wellfare Epics, the dismantling of the talent system, Vengeance mechanic, dumbing down all classes to remove any notable skill ceilings, random bonus stat rolls on gear (Warforge/Tertiary stats) etc) > > > > It's why TBC and WotLK are seen as the best era of WoW, because they implemented a lot of positive changes to the game (Such as Arena, better quests, improved classes and class balance (I.e. Tanks other than Warrior existed. Ret Paladin had more to do than just auto attack. Etc.), Faction advantages in PvP were diminished with the availability of Horde Paladins and Alliance Shamans etc. > > > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > > What I wrote is act of wanting this game to change, to be better. PvE is dead for PvPers, WvW is dead for PvEers etc. What all of you want is to leave it like that, to separate the GW2 community in to different herds and to have nothing to do with them. > > > > But implementing PvP into PvE doesn't change this. > > > > PvE will still be dead for PvPers. Them coming into a PvE map to PvP doesn't change that. > > > > WvW will still be dead for PvEers. Getting ganked repeatedly in a PvE map won't change that. > > > > If you want to improve these things for these players, you have to give them incentives to try out the modes. Though, this is already somewhat the case, PvPers can still get skins from doing PvE. PvEers can get gear and Legendary materials from WvW. > > > > Just, these people don't **WANT** to play these other modes. That's why after 8 years, they still don't. > > > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > >You people don't even deserve this game when you don't think options to make it better and more compelling to the mass. > > > > The mass is PvE players. Not PvP players. > > > > Adding PvP to PvE maps adds nothing for PvE players. So... In what scenario do you think your suggestion is going to "Make it better and more compelling to the mass"? > > > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > >And you don't get to decide what's best for the game > > > > And neither do you. > > > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > >While others like yourself preffer to complain what not to add in the game while not giving a fresh new ideas... > > > > People are constantly giving fresh new ideas. > > > > Ideas like "Actually update PvP and WvW for the first time in 8 years" > > > > That's what would benefit the PvP and WvW community. Not shoehorning in PvP content into PvE content, to heck with the consequences it would have on the majority of the playerbase that doesn't play PvP and WvW for a reason. > > > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > >You need to understand than you are never 100% sure what will come from an idea > > > > You can be 100% sure, when you've literally experienced it many times over. > > > > PvP in PvE open world is not a new idea, it has been used by many, many MMO's over the years. To which it has constantly been complained about for the same reasons time and time again. > > > > That being, with unlimited targetting, it always devolves down to people being awful and just ganking players who have no desire to play PvP. > > > > While with limited targetting with toggled flags, everyone always complains that there's no-one to fight because no-one flags for PvP ever (Since no-one in these PvE environments cares about PvPing at that time... If they did want to PvP, they'd end up going to the dedicated PvP areas instead of toggling on PvP and hoping to run into someone else who's also flagged or willing to flag) > > > > The latter issue was always exacerbated by the fact that PvE zones often didn't have places to funnel players towards in order to engage in PvP. One of the issues that is typically solved by instanced PvP zones like Battlegrounds or Conquest maps that literally get people willing to PvP, stick them in a map and then show them some shared objectives to funnel towards to promote actual fighting (Otherwise you end up with stuff like WoW's Alterac Valley where people just rush past each other to go kill the boss to get the "PvP Rewards" from winning the match). It is even further crippled by flying mounts, so people in a zone don't see each other because everyone's just flying around at different heights and making their own way through a map (Compared without mounts/limited ground mounts, where people will often follow roads to not get mauled by the PvE enemies that will slow them down) > > > > > > I read it, as I did all of the comments on the topic. Also we are free to suggest whatever and whenever we want. This topic as you can see from the topics name isn't addressed to the PvE players, asking them for a permission. It's addressing the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voltaicbore.8012 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"voltaicbore.8012" said: > > To be fair to OP, the system he describes _would_ prevent the sort of ganking most of us have seen in other games' implementation of putting open-world PvP into PvE areas. There seems to be no way for someone who doesn't want to participate to get sucked into a fight. > > > > No, it would not. Just look at Eve Online, where similar systems are in place. As are pvp accounts which care not for reputation and are strictly for killing others. Or for grieving. Given this games F2P core game, tell me with a strait face you don't expect people to make use of that and have multiple grieving accounts, I'm sorry, pvp accounts? > > "Oh but they could balance around that." > Sure, they could also make it a simple opt in system as is in many other MMORPGs. The question remains: why should they waste resources on this? (yes, waste) > > On a similar note, World of Warcraft even went back on their pvp server system 2 years ago. It simply saw no or very limited use and the little use it saw was in general not a positive experience for one of both sides. They literally decided to not support entire servers with unique rule sets for open world pvp. There is no reason to decide that GW2 is in need of open world pvp at this the state that this games populations are right now, with spvp being pretty much dead. I might have misread OP, but based on his response to my post I think he also is asking for 100% voluntary participation in the PvP aspect itself. I'm not thinking that his karma system idea would do anything... I play BDO lol. Karma is a thing there, and nobody cares. Don't even need a separate account. Not sure how EVE works (incidentally it was recently bought by Pearl Abyss, the same folks who made BDO), but my understanding is that there's really no way to opt out of pvp there. Again, based on OP's response to me, I'm pretty sure this is _not_ what he's asking for. If we don't like his idea, the least we can do is give it a proper reading. OP really doesn't seem to want the same "hurr durr lemme gankz0rs nublets" this type of thread usually is. But again, I still think this would be a bad idea. In addition to my desire not to see failed sPvP and WvW balance ideas infect PvE more than they already have, I agree with you @"Cyninja.2954" that we've seen other games try and fail here. Going back to BDO for a sec (a game that is an absolute cesspool of toxicity and even less combat 'balance' than GW2), they recently implemented a very awesome and lucrative event that allows non-beginners to play on pvp-disabled servers specifically made for the event. They eventually released PvP-enabled servers for this event and it's very, very quiet there. This happened for a game that is supposedly designed for and attracts a high proportion of PvP-hungry players. And it's not like there's any PvE 'content' worth talking about in BDO. The story is severely disjointed (which the devs have only recently made modest attempts to improve), there is no larger overarching reason given for why parts of the world look the way they do, and they didn't even bother to give the planet or continents a name lol. So if a game that (1) has _no_ meaningful PvE content and (2) is pretty explicitly defined by its OWPvP **_still_ sees players opt out of OWPvP in droves**.... I mean what else need be said? I can only imagine that it'll be an even bigger waste of time in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagblade.4627 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I simply do not understand why everyone is automatically assuming the OP is asking for mandatory open world PvP in which players can be ganked and newbies are at the mercy of the geared. That is absolutely not what he is asking for or what he has described and anyone insisting otherwise is being ignorant at best and intentionally facetious at worst. What he is describing is an optional system in which those who want to PvP in the open world have the option of doing so (and running into those who are active) while those who do not wish to participate can abstain entirely and ignore it altogether. While WvW would normally be the place for this, as described earlier some people want the experience while waiting for bosses, or the thrill of the danger while farming nodes, doing events, whatever else. If that is what they desire then more power to them. It is not something I want or would enjoy, especially given my distaste for PvP in this particular game, but them having such a **OPTIONAL** system would not impact or inconvenience me in any way, not anymore than the masses and their FPS choking glowing wings, mounts, and armor already do. The only rational argument I have seen against it is that it has the potential to kill WvW mode. This could be the case unless they further incentivize WvW beyond the rewards already in place. I wouldn't know much about that though as I do not participate in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dondarrion.2748 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > PvP game mode already exists. It isn't needed in Open World. Well, that's your opinion and you're guaranteed to get enough PvE maps regardless... but maybe try to think outside the boundaries of GW2 and hope for something new and exciting too. PvP exists in structured and world v world, but it would be nice to have - as part of the xpac - an open world-type map like Fort Aspenwood of old. Imagine a map, where there's 2 opposing factions vying for control. I'm not saying, take a PvE map and make it PvP, I'm saying, when they're creating new maps, they shouldn't be restricted to more of the same we already got. They should challenge themselves and try to add something that can be a fusion of PvE and WvW/PvP. Drizzlewood Coast is a semi-WvW map although there's only scripted PvE meta and NPCs on the opposing faction. If they're going for new types of horizontal progression; then 2 factions tied to PvE groupings (e.g. Luxon and Kurzick again, or something entirely new, depending on what we're going to see in Cantha 250+ years later). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kratan.4619 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 If WvW and SPvP are dead but PvE is not does that not mean that the people who are enjoying PvE do not enjoy WvW or SPvP? Otherwise they would already be playing those game modes. All of the threads like this seem to have the "it would make the game better" angle used when in reality the only single reason for wanting something like your suggestion implemented is to fight people who are unprepared/build not optimized/do not want to fight. There is nothing in this suggestion that would make the game more enjoyable for anyone except someone with the intent to grief others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"kratan.4619" said: > If WvW and SPvP are dead but PvE is not does that not mean that the people who are enjoying PvE do not enjoy WvW or SPvP? Otherwise they would already be playing those game modes. All of the threads like this seem to have the "it would make the game better" angle used when in reality the only single reason for wanting something like your suggestion implemented is to fight people who are unprepared/build not optimized/do not want to fight. There is nothing in this suggestion that would make the game more enjoyable for anyone except someone with the intent to grief others. Jagblade said it best. > @"Jagblade.4627" said: > I simply do not understand why everyone is automatically assuming the OP is asking for mandatory open world PvP in which players can be ganked and newbies are at the mercy of the geared. That is absolutely not what he is asking for or what he has described and anyone insisting otherwise is being ignorant at best and intentionally facetious at worst. What he is describing is an optional system in which those who want to PvP in the open world have the option of doing so (and running into those who are active) while those who do not wish to participate can abstain entirely and ignore it altogether. > > While WvW would normally be the place for this, as described earlier some people want the experience while waiting for bosses, or the thrill of the danger while farming nodes, doing events, whatever else. If that is what they desire then more power to them. It is not something I want or would enjoy, especially given my distaste for PvP in this particular game, but them having such a **OPTIONAL** system would not impact or inconvenience me in any way, not anymore than the masses and their FPS choking glowing wings, mounts, and armor already do. > > The only rational argument I have seen against it is that it has the potential to kill WvW mode. This could be the case unless they further incentivize WvW beyond the rewards already in place. I wouldn't know much about that though as I do not participate in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Dondarrion.2748" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > PvP game mode already exists. It isn't needed in Open World. > > Well, that's your opinion and you're guaranteed to get enough PvE maps regardless... but maybe try to think outside the boundaries of GW2 and hope for something new and exciting too. > > PvP exists in structured and world v world, but it would be nice to have - as part of the xpac - an open world-type map like Fort Aspenwood of old. Imagine a map, where there's 2 opposing factions vying for control. I'm not saying, take a PvE map and make it PvP, I'm saying, when they're creating new maps, they shouldn't be restricted to more of the same we already got. They should challenge themselves and try to add something that can be a fusion of PvE and WvW/PvP. > > Drizzlewood Coast is a semi-WvW map although there's only scripted PvE meta and NPCs on the opposing faction. If they're going for new types of horizontal progression; then 2 factions tied to PvE groupings (e.g. Luxon and Kurzick again, or something entirely new, depending on what we're going to see in Cantha 250+ years later). If Anet believes there is enough demand for a new map like you suggest, then I would have no problem with it. My issue is asking for this content in a PvE environment when the modes for this type of gaming already exist in GW2. Could WvW and/or PvP use some extra attention? Perhaps. Only Anet has the metrics to make that determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terter.4125 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > Could WvW and/or PvP use some extra attention? Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Anet could make a PvP open world, the Charr tank battle event proved that! Whats that? you want to fight anywhere at anytime? In PvE? In your dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > Could WvW and/or PvP use some extra attention? > > Yes please. > Then that is what that community should advocate for, rather than OWPvP. From what I see in the PvP forum, players are frustrated with the state of the format. That Anet hasn't appeared to really address those concerns should tell us all how much stock they put in to PvP. Putting PvP in open world wouldn't make things any better, in my opinion, as Anet would probably show as much attention to it there as they do in its current format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Danikat.8537" said: > > Also, on a more minor point while I'm not totally against the idea of opt-in PvP on PvE maps, where only people who choose to participate are affected, I'd ideally like them to restrict the areas where it can happen. It's really annoying in Elder Scrolls Online when some players seem to insist on duelling in the most crowded areas they can find or right on top of something they know a lot of players will want access to like a wayshrine or quest NPC. I'm not sure if they just don't think about it at all or if they're that desperate for an audience that they want to make sure players who don't care can't avoid seeing them but either way it's incredibly annoying and something I'd very much like to avoid. Players duel in areas where a lot of people go because that's where they are most likely to find someone to duel. Some of these duelers, if not most, are not trying to be annoying. They don't see it as annoying, and going elsewhere to duel takes time. > The Idea I see a number of issues with the idea. + If the goal to have a zone where players who want to fight each other can go without having the WvW skill changes, why not ask for that? + If the goal is to introduce PvE-only players to PvP, why do you think an "open" PvP zone will be any better at doing that than WvW is? + The truth is that if someone does not want to fight other players, no completely consensual PvP opt-in system is going to expose them to PvP. They'll just opt out, whatever that takes. That means the only option to expose them to it is to have it be non-consensual. + If you put story elements or highly desirable rewards into such a zone, you'd be creating a bone of contention, just like with the Gift of Battle. If you don't put rewards in, no one will go there after the novelty wears off except for those who currently PvP/WvW. If you don't put either story or rewards, then no PvE only player will enter the zone. + The prior two points mean that either the idea is flawed, or the goal is for non-consensual PvP with unwitting victims, which has frankly been my experience in _every_ MMO that has/had open PvP. + I don't think a negative karma system is going to be a deterrent, at all. + Swapping factions at will creates bandwagoning. Why? Competitive players want to win. Paying gems doesn't stop them from doing it in WvW, so what would happen with free "transfers?" + Assuming it would be trivial for ANet to change the ruleset in PvE zones, when they've stated the opposite, brings up the question as to whether there is enough value in such a zone to offset the development costs needed. I don't know the answer to that and neither do you, despite that you think you know what's best for the game. I'd be OK with consensual dueling with an opt-in that, if not toggled, would result in the lack of an option to request a duel showing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrambles.2604 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 What i see is people that have no interest in a duel feature, personally, advocating against it under the guise of griefing or Toxicity. You can make that argument about literally any hypothetical feature added to the game. I think we are all well aware at this point that the only way to remove toxicity is to play single player games. By virtue of creating any interact-ability between people, someone will find some way to be toxic. In Halo it was simply crouching (teabagging). Heartstone and rocket league have preset chat that people spam to be toxic. I play online dynamax raids in Pokemon sword and people attack their teammates to be toxic. I watched summit get followed and spell effect spammed and instrument spammed in GW2. If you are that afraid of "toxicity" stick to single player games or advocate for tools to prevent toxicity, like robust reporting and support systems. Don't advocate for less features in a game because of a perception that people will abuse it. Abusive people will abuse what ever system is available. It's not an excuse to limit features. Dueling is a common requested feature because it is so common in MMOs. Back when this was litigated when i originally played GW2, people would point to a lack of mounts or DPS meters as GW2 divergence from the MMO formula. Clearly, GW2 adheres to the MMO formula. It's not unreasonable for people to request a feature (open world dueling) which is exists in every other MMO i've played. For the sake of argument, i'm referring only to opt-in, consensual duels. Not ganking. Consent from both parties to fight to 1hp almost anywhere in the open world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Since Guild Halls already have a PvP area built in, but you can’t fight people from outside the guild, I think there is plenty of room for an Arena accesses in the open world, not a whole zone, where various PvP events take place. It won’t ruin WvW any more than the sPvP HotM arena ruined queuing for sPvP. Allow people to join the audience and even let players reserve time slots for special events that players create like GvG fights. You don’t have to enjoy playing PvP to enjoy watching. There. It’s 100% opt in. You can join from a PvE zone and play with whoever you want. Anyone can participate as a spectator. I don’t get why so many people are jumping on the one bad idea (Or bad way of implementing this idea) and ignoring all the good ideas. A little PvP exposure, if you join it (like with a race) is not a bad way to bring variety of content to open world. It doesn’t ruin PvE to have more content options. It’s not like adding content for PvP hurts PvE players, even if the PvP players have to travel to a PvE location to access it. If anything, that is more of a burden on the PvP players than PvE’ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etria.3642 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 SWTOR first tried having pvp servers and non pvp servers. The pvp servers died. Then they made it so you can toggle on pvp to be brought to a pvp instance in the open world. In general, these instances are deserted. I go to them to complete my dailies without worrying about other players interfering with my pve tasks. Should I actually run into another player, it is 58 times out 60, someone in the other faction doing the exact same thing. There is no fight. Once in a great while 1/60 the other player will actually attack, but this is so few and far between as to make it not worth worrying about. And then the other 1/60 is a guild organized event where they get enough folks to battle each other to get the achievements and titles some planets offer. Some planets don't even have an instance up until I toggle the flag on. The suggestion here is slightly different--it would have pve and pvp together in the same instance. I am not quite sure how this would work. PVE folks would have green names, enemies would have red, pvp would be yellow? Does that mean they could be optionally attacked, thus turning that person to red for the pve'er and turning on the pve'er's flag? It would be very easy, in that scenario, for someone to cause a flag to be turned on(jump into someone's aoe). It would certainly be disruptive(duel on a jump puzzle, too bad all you daily folks). How would objectives work, for those with flags toggled on? I can think of so many ways this would lead to terrible experiences and....not really any ways it would be a positive experience. If it is just the desire to duel someone while waiting for Tequatl, there is, as someone else said, costume brawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arielqueen.6587 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 This topic again and again? Never do it, or i'll leave the game forever. If you need competitive in open world, please go Korean game. I'm glad ArenaNet didn't do that like other NCsoft games. But if (PvP)player can make instance area like story, that doesn't bother other players and it should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zohane.7208 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Jagblade.4627" said: > I simply do not understand why everyone is automatically assuming the OP is asking for mandatory open world PvP in which players can be ganked and newbies are at the mercy of the geared. That is absolutely not what he is asking for or what he has described and anyone insisting otherwise is being ignorant at best and intentionally facetious at worst. What he is describing is an optional system in which those who want to PvP in the open world have the option of doing so (and running into those who are active) while those who do not wish to participate can abstain entirely and ignore it altogether. > > While WvW would normally be the place for this, as described earlier some people want the experience while waiting for bosses, or the thrill of the danger while farming nodes, doing events, whatever else. If that is what they desire then more power to them. It is not something I want or would enjoy, especially given my distaste for PvP in this particular game, but them having such a **OPTIONAL** system would not impact or inconvenience me in any way, not anymore than the masses and their FPS choking glowing wings, mounts, and armor already do. > > The only rational argument I have seen against it is that it has the potential to kill WvW mode. This could be the case unless they further incentivize WvW beyond the rewards already in place. I wouldn't know much about that though as I do not participate in WvW. Quoting an excerpt from the original post: > @"Gopaka.7839" said: > > **1.** _Making some rules like if two players are in same faction you stay friendly(green name) to one another and if you are from a different faction you stay neutral(yellow name). If a player starts a fight he gets negative karma effect for minutes/hours and is displayed aggressive(red name) and can be killed by both factions._ > To me, that seems an awful lot like people would be able to go out and attack/kill non-consenting players. If one makes the assumption that players would not become hostile to their own party members (it seems logical to design it that way - why would you become hostile to party members when you attack others?), ganking would become a very distinct possibility. So no, I don't find it surprising at all that people draw the conclusion that the mindset/intent of the OP is to be able to gank unsuspecting non-consenting players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggranya.5201 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > I don’t get why so many people are jumping on the one bad idea (Or bad way of implementing this idea) and ignoring all the good ideas. A little PvP exposure, if you join it (like with a race) is not a bad way to bring variety of content to open world. It doesn’t ruin PvE to have more content options. It’s not like adding content for PvP hurts PvE players, even if the PvP players have to travel to a PvE location to access it. If anything, that is more of a burden on the PvP players than PvE’ers. It is really simple, as you can see from the many post pointing it out once again: It is a waste of development time to make something that no one plays. You can say "you don't know that" But then we are going in the same circles again and again, because it has all been said SO MANY TIMES already, in every single thread like this. You know why, i know why, we all know why, why do you refuse to just accept it? Don't worry, you can insult me for my question, as is the norm but it won't change facts. Open world PvP isn't designed to hurt PvE players, but the PLAYERS will turn it into that, because it's "fun" or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewcifer.5198 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 About a karma system and BDO: I have seen the BDO forums and it has not made fighting other players any less toxic. Granted BDO has people fighting over resources. But it does prove that a karma system won't deter much if people really want to kill others. They could place an arena in a new map like how the guild hall has one. Talk to an npc. Teleport in. Fight. Completely optional. Doesn't get people spammed for duels. No need for a nonfunctional karma system. My one stipulation would be: be very careful about rewards if they require winning. PvE is not balanced to PvP **at all.** So it would be kind of a dick move to have a major game reward locked behind something like that. Map wide pvp would be a mistake. Not only would it invite toxicity, but it most likely would not attract very many participants outside of people who want to troll/grief. Meaning it would end up as a gimmick that never gets any further attention from the devs. This would just annoy the small number of players who wanted or like it. Meanwhile everyone else who doesn't care for it would be glad it wasn't done again while simultaneously lamenting the waste of dev work that went into putting it into the game when they could have been working on something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > You're gonna get a lot of the usual responses to this idea, but no thank you. GW2 seems primarily like a story-telling game with PvP elements relegated to opt-in game modes. PvP has been and likely should remain an optional, additional choice for players. > > The best way to reduce toxicity is to keep it out of the drinking water completely. No this is not the issue. Is not what the OP asking for is WvW? Why do people keep suggesting PvP in OW maps, even though neither the map design nor the combat stats are remotely suitable for PvP.?! In addition, it does not make any sense thematically. All the players are in one faction, so why would the fight each other? This is basically WvW without any of the WvW fixes to ensure that it is remotely balanced or fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > I don’t get why so many people are jumping on the one bad idea (Or bad way of implementing this idea) and ignoring all the good ideas. A little PvP exposure, if you join it (like with a race) is not a bad way to bring variety of content to open world. It doesn’t ruin PvE to have more content options. It’s not like adding content for PvP hurts PvE players, even if the PvP players have to travel to a PvE location to access it. If anything, that is more of a burden on the PvP players than PvE’ers. > > It is really simple, as you can see from the many post pointing it out once again: It is a waste of development time to make something that no one plays. > > You can say "you don't know that" But then we are going in the same circles again and again, because it has all been said SO MANY TIMES already, in every single thread like this. You know why, i know why, we all know why, why do you refuse to just accept it? Don't worry, you can insult me for my question, as is the norm but it won't change facts. Open world PvP isn't designed to hurt PvE players, but the PLAYERS will turn it into that, because it's "fun" or something. > > WvW is packed. SPvP is actually quite active. They made races and how many people are active doing them? This just seems like a really poor justification because it isn’t backed up by data but just a “community feeling” that comes from a vocal minority of the player base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yggranya.5201 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > I don’t get why so many people are jumping on the one bad idea (Or bad way of implementing this idea) and ignoring all the good ideas. A little PvP exposure, if you join it (like with a race) is not a bad way to bring variety of content to open world. It doesn’t ruin PvE to have more content options. It’s not like adding content for PvP hurts PvE players, even if the PvP players have to travel to a PvE location to access it. If anything, that is more of a burden on the PvP players than PvE’ers. > > > > It is really simple, as you can see from the many post pointing it out once again: It is a waste of development time to make something that no one plays. > > > > You can say "you don't know that" But then we are going in the same circles again and again, because it has all been said SO MANY TIMES already, in every single thread like this. You know why, i know why, we all know why, why do you refuse to just accept it? Don't worry, you can insult me for my question, as is the norm but it won't change facts. Open world PvP isn't designed to hurt PvE players, but the PLAYERS will turn it into that, because it's "fun" or something. > > > > > > WvW is packed. SPvP is actually quite active. They made races and how many people are active doing them? This just seems like a really poor justification because it isn’t backed up by data but just a “community feeling” that comes from a vocal minority of the player base. Someone else said that there is no one playing WvW (i think it was the OP), so which is it? Do you have any data to back up your claim? PvP is never successful except in a game designed for nothing but PvP, and even that has all the same problems. You know, the toxicity and all that. But that is the norm for any kind of multiplayer, be it competitive or "team work". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"Yggranya.5201" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > I don’t get why so many people are jumping on the one bad idea (Or bad way of implementing this idea) and ignoring all the good ideas. A little PvP exposure, if you join it (like with a race) is not a bad way to bring variety of content to open world. It doesn’t ruin PvE to have more content options. It’s not like adding content for PvP hurts PvE players, even if the PvP players have to travel to a PvE location to access it. If anything, that is more of a burden on the PvP players than PvE’ers. > > > > > > It is really simple, as you can see from the many post pointing it out once again: It is a waste of development time to make something that no one plays. > > > > > > You can say "you don't know that" But then we are going in the same circles again and again, because it has all been said SO MANY TIMES already, in every single thread like this. You know why, i know why, we all know why, why do you refuse to just accept it? Don't worry, you can insult me for my question, as is the norm but it won't change facts. Open world PvP isn't designed to hurt PvE players, but the PLAYERS will turn it into that, because it's "fun" or something. > > > > > > > > > > WvW is packed. SPvP is actually quite active. They made races and how many people are active doing them? This just seems like a really poor justification because it isn’t backed up by data but just a “community feeling” that comes from a vocal minority of the player base. > > Someone else said that there is no one playing WvW (i think it was the OP), so which is it? Do you have any data to back up your claim? PvP is never successful except in a game designed for nothing but PvP, and even that has all the same problems. You know, the toxicity and all that. But that is the norm for any kind of multiplayer, be it competitive or "team work". I play WvW and there are plenty of people on the enemy servers. Mine has less but I still see more than 4 people in 4 hours. Overall depending on coverage it can be quite a lot. HoD was fielding map queues less than an hour ago. And that’s T4 which is supposedly less population wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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