WvW is less and less like WvW

[Super Hayes.6890]

> @"sitarskee.5738" said:

> > @"Super Hayes.6890" said:

> > > @"sitarskee.5738" said:

> > > If I were a commander, I'd rather lead an organized group with useful classes than a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing.

> >

> > I just bought a tag. I'd be happy to lead the lemmings since I myself haven't got a clue what to do.

>

> I mean, yeah because you want to do it for fun. Commanders take this stuff seriously though and mainly play with a goal of actually having proper fights etc. Atleast in my opinion. I saw new commanders quite a few times and more experienced players didn't have mercy on them.

 

I never expect mercy lol. There is a block feature on the chat though if they get too serious. I would also run a squad message making my experience level clear. It's on them if they stay after that ?

[Threather.9354]

Yea, objectivefights are dead. Its just tight-knit communities vs tight-knit communities. This is mostly because objective balance is disgusting with tankier lords and double claim buffs. This leaves no room to more casual groups as the optimal strat is just long regroups and borderhopping for easy objectives with _social interaction being the only way to keep you interested_ which isn't that engaging unless you're invested in other people around you.

 

The combat system isn't great either with any range strats being dead and it just being superspeed choochoo with skills still having range and radius that isn't designed for such movement speed.

 

Some of the siege changes need to be reversed, siege needs to be more damage to siege again and shield gens shouldn't block all projectile siege making attacking just rams+gens and defending hopeless.

 

So in summary: While the changes required are small, they're essential. Otherwise WvW is just glorified chat room.

 

Anet really needs to admit lot of HoT and post-HoT stuff aren't well balanced yet.

[shiri.4257]

plenty of guilds in wvw. if you're fortunate u might only get 2 guilds catching you with your pants down as you turn a corner!

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

> @"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

>

> Well ... in the bottom tier it is (because of population balancing issues) more like 2 linked servers vs. a few players (on 2 other servers without link). More like WvP. :D So ... less and less like WvW there.

>

>

> you schold change server for more populated, but not overpopulated

>

> same adionals severs can be nice wher main servers get to much overpopulated ( cuz new expanshion and new elit spec)

 

actually it gets also worse in the upper tiers often. kinda random, some servers are fully focused on playing pve within wvw; while those are the best farming grounds for strong fighting guilds,

 

besides, after all population count says nothing. it's a really simple way to create a server, not more. plus the link should make at least 1/3 of your population, which isn't always the case - in other time link saves you even. if u get unlinked ur kinda dead for several weeks, if you get a weak link you will feel it as well, since most host servers aren't that overstacked in EU currently.

 

best would be to have every server unlinked and refill the low ones with new population from the steam-launch of gw2... currently it looks not like they'd change anything really about wvw tho

 

> @"shiri.4257" said:

> plenty of guilds in wvw. if you're fortunate u might only get 2 guilds catching you with your pants down as you turn a corner!

 

i have to argue against this though. it is just not true, most servers barely have more than 4 Wvw guilds. considering that at prime time each server has at least 180 people online and most wvw (raiding) guilds are sizewise between 20-30 people (and there's barely all online at one time), making nearly half of the population beeing only in random guilds (and therefore able to even claim stuff with a maxed out guild tag, also coordinationwise a huge downside)

 

the host server + link system is pretty bad for the guild system also.

 

this "pants down corner" thing only happens because many people play as if they'd be not able to turn their cameras or use the sniff button, only like 20-30% of the attacks - if even - are well enough initiated to really miss them. it's just lacking attention of the "players".

 

different is blob battles openfield.; u can lose track what happens because of the hundred flashy lights and red circles - even on lowest res this games is just way to colorful imo. if it's a threeway, it has increasing lag spikes as well, and the performance of that happens yet if just 15 cloudy roamerpepes crossfire into a blobfight... as said, just overall bad setup.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

WvW is getting to where the remaining population is to sparsely skewed amongst all the servers. 9/10x you log into wvw, there isn't enough population to get anything organized going on in anyone's server.

 

They need a method of merging everyone together into the same wvw instance. We just need densely populated maps again, so it's fun again.

[kathy.8291]

Since the balance of how many people can fit into wvw it has become less likely to join. Every map is qued, guildies cant get in the same map and it has become frustrating. Most guilds dont even run reset because of that reason. This test did not eliminate the lag issue in any way therefore I hope the testing is OVER AND DONE with the amount of people that can fit in one map.

[kathy.8291]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> WvW is getting to where the remaining population is to sparsely skewed amongst all the servers. 9/10x you log into wvw, there isn't enough population to get anything organized going on in anyone's server.

>

> They need a method of merging everyone together into the same wvw instance. We just need densely populated maps again, so it's fun again.

 

Actually depending on what server your on, it is OVERPOPULATED; especially when Anet limit the amount of people allowed on one map. There are still BLOBS afer BLOBS after BLOBS and unfortunately if you have a big guild running you cant fit everyone on the same map because of the limit Anet put on it. (stinks). You must be on a server that is underpopulated and I suggest if you like WvW to transfer.

 

PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT merge another 3rd server with each other because NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO FIT IN THE MAP.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"kathy.8291" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > WvW is getting to where the remaining population is to sparsely skewed amongst all the servers. 9/10x you log into wvw, there isn't enough population to get anything organized going on in anyone's server.

> >

> > They need a method of merging everyone together into the same wvw instance. We just need densely populated maps again, so it's fun again.

>

> Actually depending on what server your on, it is OVERPOPULATED; especially when Anet limit the amount of people allowed on one map. There are still BLOBS afer BLOBS after BLOBS and unfortunately if you have a big guild running you cant fit everyone on the same map because of the limit Anet put on it. (stinks). You must be on a server that is underpopulated and I suggest if you like WvW to transfer.

>

> PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT merge another 3rd server with each other because NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO FIT IN THE MAP.

>

 

oooh I did not know that..... well then, that explains a lot of things.

 

Ill guess I'll shut my mouth then, and let the wvw enthusiasts do the talking on this topic.

[CrimsonNeonite.1048]

He's on FoW, which has lots of Guilds/Closed Raids, but also plenty of open Tags, especially during the weekend and after Prime Time.

 

Afaik though, it's hard to fill a full squad on there after prime time even with a queue, nevermind getting an decent Fighting Oriented Squad together, to fight anything that is organized.

[nthmetal.9652]

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> @"Junkpile.7439" yeah because thanks to the damned silly warkitty, reinforcing numbers just happens far too quick. and additionally the slowed down the battle speed by nerfing all dps and target caps... like a mastermind of kitten designed this, with the aim to annoy us all.

 

Ah! So you would like WvW to be more useless running around, less time actually spend fighting?

Let's look at the reverse situation: Increased number of targets, and the DPS per attack, while at the same time removing the warclaw.

 

More people will hit more targets while also doing more damage with each hit. - so overall more damage in a bomb. You said nothing about sustain, but even if I would assume that sustain powers are likewise increased in target cap again, there is a lot more damage than sustain, so overall this would buff the attacks.

Yes, this would make fights last less long, because that's awesome for everyone: Kill more players more quickly, making the action go over faster.

 

And then also we increase the rerun-times by removing the warclaw.

 

So you end up with less action per encounter, while at the same time reducing the amount of encounters due to higher run times. I can clearly see how that will lead to a more interesting WvW experience.

[Flee.5602]

> @"CrimsonNeonite.1048" said:

> He's on FoW, which has lots of Guilds/Closed Raids, but also plenty of open Tags, especially during the weekend and after Prime Time.

>

> Afaik though, it's hard to fill a full squad on there after prime time even with a queue, nevermind getting an decent Fighting Oriented Squad together, to fight anything that is organized.

 

My topic resonated. So this is a common phenomenon

[Inoki.6048]

> @"sitarskee.5738" said:

> If I were a commander, I'd rather lead an organized group with useful classes than a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing.

 

You know, people get tired, after a while, of trying to create content for others and be called names for it, be looked down at, be taken for granted and ignored at the same time. Commanders - perhaps not all, but the decent ones - take their time and ask only for one, perhaps 2 things in return:

1. equip a better gear (costs almost nothing) + skills (costs literally nothing)

2. join a voice, no need to speak, and do as they say - the basic function that requires 0 brain power

 

People fail to follow these 2 basic rules and as such, have no right to ask someone to tag up, no, to waste their time on them.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> @"Flee.5602" solid kitten.. complaining in "guild wars 2" about people doing guild raids eh?

>

> you don't understand Wvw apparently, Guilds are the backbone of each server, just some servers tend to forget that as well. casuals who never run or ever ran with voiced tags cannot understand that surely, also if ur not playing a Wvw-class and build you may feel useless unless sticking in some big blob surely.

>

> @"Junkpile.7439" yeah because thanks to the damned silly warkitty, reinforcing numbers just happens far too quick. and additionally the slowed down the battle speed by nerfing all dps and target caps... like a mastermind of kitten designed this, with the aim to annoy us all.

 

Mounts on WvW is a bit idiotic(they way they were added) still lesser than transmogriffers, Anet should had betted in new mobile siege and new masteries.

 

WvW is all about resources, mounts dont use them (they do but its super useless) the harpoon from warclaw could KD golems :pensive: if golems had a defiant bar.

[CrimsonNeonite.1048]

> @"Flee.5602" said:

> > @"CrimsonNeonite.1048" said:

> > He's on FoW, which has lots of Guilds/Closed Raids, but also plenty of open Tags, especially during the weekend and after Prime Time.

> >

> > Afaik though, it's hard to fill a full squad on there after prime time even with a queue, nevermind getting an decent Fighting Oriented Squad together, to fight anything that is organized.

>

> My topic resonated. So this is a common phenomenon

 

It isn't so bad on GH and FoW, apart from the queues. There is plenty of content on there, if you want to join a guild or join a open tag as a pug.

 

Most likely things will change on Friday evening anyway.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

> @"Inoki.6048" said:

> > @"sitarskee.5738" said:

> > If I were a commander, I'd rather lead an organized group with useful classes than a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing.

>

> You know, people get tired, after a while, of trying to create content for others and be called names for it, be looked down at, be taken for granted and ignored at the same time. Commanders - perhaps not all, but the decent ones - take their time and ask only for one, perhaps 2 things in return:

> 1. equip a better gear (costs almost nothing) + skills (costs literally nothing)

> 2. join a voice, no need to speak, and do as they say - the basic function that requires 0 brain power

>

> People fail to follow these 2 basic rules and as such, have no right to ask someone to tag up, no, to waste their time on them.

 

it's even worse, despite easier. u can be really effective with just exotics, only the stat sets should be correct, as well as the build and runes+sigils+weapons, which is really not that hard.

"You know, people get tired, after a while, of trying to create content for others and be called names for it, be looked down at, be taken for granted and ignored at the same time. "

this part is just too true. u can wipe overnumbers for hours constantly, map can be full, yet only 25 ppl are on squad with 30-40 pugs flocking around them.... if u after 40min tag down then, usually some silly comment from some pug(s) comes. it's usually better on voiceleads, while they also cannot safely get more than 40ish outside of server primetimes.

 

on opentags, people expect just nothing anymore, it just gets a random moving cloud mostly, half of opensquads chasing 2-3 people poking them is kinda standard. that part is kinda the fault of the random comms, since tags are just way too easy to get, which is a problem as well somehow. some comms are just really not good, and nobody follows them for that, their 10-pp + 10 pugs groups block map space for other groups further.

 

@"nthmetal.9652"

"Ah! So you would like WvW to be more useless running around, less time actually spend fighting?"

... about that, you do realize that many chars are quite mobile? fast fights happen still often enough, if one side is more experienced than the other. warclaw has the negative aspect that all chars (even the normally not that fast respawning) can go into fights more ballsy, since they can move back to the fight faster.

 

plus, fighting duration became yet on average longer since a huge amount of dps skills got heavy nerfs. not necessarily bad, since the correct sets enable you still to push the enemy squad pretty quick. the (in)ability of players playing their classes right got more noticable due to that though, i guess. but this also leads to bigger fights needing several pushes, in which the warclaws enable to slower players to respawn pretty fast, without using a single mobility cooldown up till the fight begins.

 

[KeyOrion.9506]

It's worse on PvP I heard. The PvP players got so bored with people NOT coming to do PvP, that they had to come over to WvW. And then they get all mad when more than one person gangs up on them. World vs. World vs. World, combat field. TEAM PLAY. And then they get all snippety when they sneak attack an opponent, and the opponent's ally comes to help, and then it's "what...you couldn't 1 vs 1..." WvW isn't one vs. one. It's team play. Learn to play as part of the team, or go back to PvP arena. But I agree with the Flee up top. Majority of the commanders just "Want to fight" "Get bags"....they don't even bother with the whole Capture the Flag of WvW anymore. I mean....what's the point of even having WvW, if the commanders just want to go a single site and just duke it out over and over again. The whole "bag farm" concept bores me to death. There's no intelligence behind a bag farm. There is no concept of outsmarting your opponent, it's all about outmaneuvering your opponent. The whole concept of "dancing" around in circles bores me. I seriously believe that Anet should have thought about instituting GvG, because the whole Capture the Flag of WvW is starting to break down and become something they no longer care about doing.

 

When you hear from every single commander, "I don't care about the PPT" , Points Per Turn....seriously....why WvW. There's no purpose to WvW, when commanders go, "I dont' give a ..... about PPT score..." Let WvW die. I love WvW, but I can't stand the commanders that don't give a damn about WvW, or the score, or even about winning. No you don't get anything extra, except a fist thump on your chest, or the pride of your accomplishment that you stayed on top...or that you at least attempted to climb the ladder. Seriously have 7 years, let WvW die, put in GvG...you could create your GvG alliances, and we can be finished with this once and for all.

[Luthan.5236]

> @"Inoki.6048" said:

> > @"sitarskee.5738" said:

> > If I were a commander, I'd rather lead an organized group with useful classes than a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing.

>

> You know, people get tired, after a while, of trying to create content for others and be called names for it, be looked down at, be taken for granted and ignored at the same time. Commanders - perhaps not all, but the decent ones - take their time and ask only for one, perhaps 2 things in return:

> 1. equip a better gear (costs almost nothing) + skills (costs literally nothing)

> 2. join a voice, no need to speak, and do as they say - the basic function that requires 0 brain power

>

> People fail to follow these 2 basic rules and as such, have no right to ask someone to tag up, no, to waste their time on them.

Wrong mentality. That's how you NOT get new players to join the game. Well ... then you can try with the few organized players available. (Still other randoms nearby might just run with you.) That's maybe why pro guilds need to all join the strongest servers. Cause pros want to only play with other pros ... and want to play at the top. (Well ... enjoy the longuer queues there.)

 

There are people that like to save money (and more important inventory space). That don't just want other sto tell them which gear to use. More important so for the skills. If you like your "own style" you just don't change it. And voice stuff isn't needed. (On bad computer ... the additional program running might lower your performance.) Not your problem if people don't announce stuff in chat and if ArenaNet does not increase the ingame tools to provide info. (There actually is stuff like the red dots on the map. People can learn to pay more attention. But sometimes they mindlessly run with some commander while stuff elsewhere gets taken when even someone posts in chat and lots of red dots are nearby.)

 

I see people more stupid at the overall strategical/tactical execution ... at least on my server ... receent matchup. Yeah ... combat might be weaker because they use less recommended stats and skills. But why not try to use sieges and lay a trap? Always the common siege placement at the wall and the 30 man chasing 20 though the inner outer keep (between inner and outer wall) and getting killed by 20 or chasing them endlessly having trouble to kill them.

 

Rarely I see someone trying to place a few sieges ... then own zerg pushing (when you know the 20 guys will move) having a "trap" of a few sieges and some other bunker guys defending there ... at the place where the enemy will run to. (And then just push push push ... not run away when the enemy suddenly stops.) You can just communicate in chat that you are about to try that. Not much time lost by chat instead of voice tools ... if you are chasing them for 30+ minuts anywasy - usually .... :P

 

I am happy with my 3 skill templates (the free ones): 1 for PvE, 1 for PvP, 1 for WvW. Then the free build storage used for my main for the the elite specs (including 1 for core) for my main. Different builds. And some PvP ... to save them. (Different ones for 3 vs. 3 and 2 vs. 2.)

 

Basically only the one I currently use for WvW saved in the storage and me randomly switching to (on engineer) superspeed stuff to speed up Dolyaks. (Which also gives me "perticipation.) Normally I play my casual build for fun. That cann kill sentries and low tier camps quickly. And give support in small to mid-scale combat. Every now and then I run with the zerg. But I try to stay alive (which works) longer and I try to pick off enemy stragglers. I still get good loot. I just don't rush into outnumbered situation when I know the other of the own zerg also die pretty fast. (And when they aren't even pushing.) I prefer to place some random/sudedden siege ... in our camp. When zer g vs. zerg is nearby at the tower and enemy zerg might run to cap our camp (with our zerg following ... and hopefully pushing.)

 

Too mee it looks super boring ... the super organized stuff of the enemy (and "stronger") servers where they run small scall super organizsed squad and zerg almost perfectly at the commander every time. Perfectly stacked like robots. (Where they give us trouble. But it seems boring. Just a prolonged fighting when in the end numbers still win over them and it seems like both sites wasted their time.)

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

so, about this, somewhat popular kitten argument

_"When you hear from every single commander, "I don't care about the PPT" , Points Per Turn....seriously....why WvW. There's no purpose to WvW, when commanders go, "I dont' give a ..... about PPT score..."_

 

@"KeyOrion.9506"

we have this topic tons of times, and tried to explain this tons of times yet. so once again: what does ppt give? what does really give u, did u think about that for once?

 

u want ppt to manipulate matchups and to have waypoints, and that was basically all it gives u. additionally, every some weeks "relink" happens, and u can get anywhere after that. tier 1,2,3 matters not at all. the servers often get worse, the higher they are.

Desolation is currently in t3, been t2 last week and both of these weeks provides no serious fights at all. it's just a bag farming simulator, and we're at the exact end of a matchup cycle. means both of the opposing servers for two weeks been just completely incapable of forming just one 40man group that knows how to push their buttons right, still they have big numbers and big ppt.

 

so u think they "win" anything? because they don't. there is no leaderboard, no reward for winning either matchup, skirmish or beeing in any specific tier. desolation knows best, the server has been like 1 year tier one because it was so overstacked with hardcore ppters

 

so the tags that care more about fighting provide u bags. bags and wxp = levels and loot and reward track quick fills if u stack your boosters and banners right. while the ppt people can only turtle behind a billion of sieges and dragon banners to not get bombed instantly down.

 

so yeah, that is basically why to bring proper classes and why comms don't necessarily ppt.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> there is no leaderboard

What a peculiar statement. A leaderboard is exactly what the tier/server ranking system is. Or are we supposed to pretend that no such leaderboard exist and WSR can easily compete with AG+FR because as you say, ppt gives nothing?

 

Sometimes I wonder if people are playing the same WvW that I'm playing. Saying "u want ppt to manipulate matchups" is equally perplexing.

 

I can just imagine a hockey match and on one side the fans are yelling **"come on, you need to manipulate this matchup better!"** while on the other side fans are yelling **"dont listen to them, scoring gives you nothing!"**. And all the players want to do is just play some damn hockey.

[Klypto.1703]

Its so not wvw anymore that pve guilds have started moving in so if you are at the bottom tier its because you are stuck with pip farm bots that talk back.

[KeyOrion.9506]

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:

> so, about this, somewhat popular kitten argument

> _"When you hear from every single commander, "I don't care about the PPT" , Points Per Turn....seriously....why WvW. There's no purpose to WvW, when commanders go, "I dont' give a ..... about PPT score..."_

>

> @"KeyOrion.9506"

> we have this topic tons of times, and tried to explain this tons of times yet. so once again: what does ppt give? what does really give u, did u think about that for once?

>

> u want ppt to manipulate matchups and to have waypoints, and that was basically all it gives u. additionally, every some weeks "relink" happens, and u can get anywhere after that. tier 1,2,3 matters not at all. the servers often get worse, the higher they are.

> Desolation is currently in t3, been t2 last week and both of these weeks provides no serious fights at all. it's just a bag farming simulator, and we're at the exact end of a matchup cycle. means both of the opposing servers for two weeks been just completely incapable of forming just one 40man group that knows how to push their buttons right, still they have big numbers and big ppt.

>

> so u think they "win" anything? because they don't. there is no leaderboard, no reward for winning either matchup, skirmish or beeing in any specific tier. desolation knows best, the server has been like 1 year tier one because it was so overstacked with hardcore ppters

>

> so the tags that care more about fighting provide u bags. bags and wxp = levels and loot and reward track quick fills if u stack your boosters and banners right. while the ppt people can only turtle behind a billion of sieges and dragon banners to not get bombed instantly down.

>

> so yeah, that is basically why to bring proper classes and why comms don't necessarily ppt.

 

It's called a CHALLENGE. Your supposed to challenge yourself. Your supposed to challenge your team. When the team says, "Let's lose" to go down in tier...<---what's the purpose to that? "Yah know what, i don't want to challenge myself..." Going up a tier, means a harder challenge, win or lose. You talk about rewards. Has it ever occurred to you that there was more to WvW than rewards of a Loot Bag? One of the biggest reasons I EVER joined WvW when GW2 launched, was for the CHALLENGE. And you...you don't even want that. "Lets lose". Some challenge.

[Talindra.4958]

We need some system to stop people mass server transfer. The massive server transfer soon after relink is what stuff up others game. Dev will have to figure how to stop this in order to reserve the game for others. Make it first month after relink no transfer server. Second half allow to transfer.

 

[KeyOrion.9506]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> We need some system to stop people mass server transfer. The massive server transfer soon after relink is what stuff up others game. Dev will have to figure how to stop this in order to reserve the game for others. Make it first month after relink no transfer server. Second half allow to transfer.

>

 

Server jumping in mass ended in 3rd year, due to mass shifts of players to become part of the "winning teams" during Seasons. Seasons 1-2 caused a massive player population based imbalance. Reason why servers transfers are now LOCKED behind gem purchase along with closed server bases.

[Arziki.8129]

that feeling, when you are provided with a tons classes and about a hundred skills, is lured into the game with the words "look at what variety we have here" and at the end we get that 90% of this variety is not usable trash. We hear from other players that we are such scoundrels who took the wrong skills for pvp\WvW\raid and pumped the wrong character. Have you ever wondered what the problem might be?

Is it the player's fault that he doesn't want to have 20 characters for all occasions? Is it the player's fault that he took the skill that he was given to choose from?

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Arziki.8129" said:

> Have you ever wondered what the problem might be?

Not really, we know its players.