Staff suggestions.

[Justine.6351]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > @"felix.2386" said:

> > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > > @"Buran.3796" said:

> > > > > > > Oh, for sure they are out of touch. Things like Ventari with no stunbreaks, or Kalla with the stunbreak initially in the healing skill. Or the release of the 5 slot weapons with 0 defenses or mobility as the shortbow, which makes almost useless for PvP (it gained some use lately due with the overall nerfs to global damage is easier to last longer with weak defenses), but on the other they release the trident with perma weakness in Jalis legend, perma vulnerability in Shiro and permanent proc of torment in Mallyx and burns in Glint... If Cantha really has a notable amount of underwater content I can see how they will nerf the weapon very soon. I'm at a point in just I no longer care.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > rofl yeah I saw people playing power shortbow and just lol...

> > > > > > Everything got trashcanned so hard that shortbow "became viable". That's just pathetic really.

> > > > >

> > > > > except shortbow shiro jalis is very fun to play and a good alternative to s/s herald and both have a distinct differentiation other then being simply dps and isn't braindead and actually take thoughts to play.

> > > > > which is a good thing, i don't know how you can laugh at "more things being viable, while not being overpowered"

> > > > >

> > > > > shortbow shiro jalis actually has plenty of defenses as a build, you can't just be simply looking at one part of the entire build and say oh this lacks that, nop not how that works.

> > > > > and this build is also very demanding in terms of positioning which most of you whos used to s/s herald probably have no idea what that is since you are pure melee.

> > > > > try play some core necro and come back you will find an entire new world as power renegade.

> > > > > and shiro provide plenty of mobility.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah removing stuff from play so shortbow can not be as garbage seems like more diversity...

> > > > Maybe they could have just made shortbow not garbage? But yeah I can appreciate the big brains behind turning on io and using sevenshot. Mindblowing game changer for anyone who has never done it with any of the other multi striker rev skills or lol glass bow sic em snipers.

> > >

> > > what do you mean by removing stuff from play, there's literally nothing that got removed from play that isn't braindead or simply toxic as build and it is really the overall stats of the game is lower.

> > > you arent really making any sense what so ever.

> > >

> > > did braindead condi rev that actually require some brain to play now got removed? no

> > > did s/s herald got removed? no, in fact s/s herald and power renegade excel against different comp which is very good.

> > > like what in the world are you talking about

> > >

> > > if all you can think of power renegade is turning IO with seven shot, clearly you arent that deep with the class what so ever. too much wvw really has turned off your brain power.

> > >

> > >

> > > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > >

> > > > > Maybe they could have just made shortbow not garbage? But yeah I can appreciate the big brains behind turning on io and using sevenshot. Mindblowing game changer for anyone who has never done it with any of the other multi striker rev skills or lol glass bow sic em snipers.

> > > >

> > > > Guy probably thinks he is the first person to find out yu can use IO during SotM as well.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > i also think none of you stand a chance against me in 1v1, no matter what build what class.

> >

> > If all they did was number tweaks people would agree with you. Apparently you arnt experienced enough at the game to see everything else that was changed.

>

> Yea, all you saying is non sense and made up stuff.

> it's like some cult trying to promote their non existing god.

> at least i'm more experienced then some one who i can beat on all 9 classes and yes, that's you.

 

You the master!

Today, me.

Tomorrow, somebody good at the game.

You truly have no limit!

[Buran.3796]

> @"felix.2386" said:

 

> what do you mean by removing stuff from play, there's literally nothing that got removed from play that isn't braindead or simply toxic as build and it is really the overall stats of the game is lower.

 

 

That's not the case. A couple of examples: in Surge of the Mist not only the damage was nerfed, but also a 1 second pause before the start of the attack was implemented, which changes entirely the chances of landing the hit on a foe.; staff #1, # and #3 changed a lot how they work, also. Coalescence of Ruin went from being an AoE which engaged targets and could be cast on movement to an AoE which constantly failed to engage targets and FINALLY to a ground castted skill with less than a 40º forward window which cancels itself if you're strafing OR EVEN MOVING FORWARD. Is a utter useless stationary attack in a weapon which for more than a year have been entirely useless at every game mode. Also, both hammer #3, #4 and #5 can be casted at 360º while moving, whereas the new Coalescence seems to have been tailored using a specially dumb version the short bow blueprints, because can't track crap or be casted beyond those ~40ª. No, we aren't talking here just about nerfs in numbers, is a lot more than that.

 

Over the years they replaced in this class a lot of things which had an use and worked to some extent for... just nothing. And by the way, the class is coded like garbage: the game keeps resetting the order in the legend skills while jumping from game modes because instead of programming the utilities as every other class (you should chose the skill for each slot, even if is only one option available). Instead the game treats those utilities as a block and overwrites the player preferences each time. Forget about balancing or making weapons viable: they just aren't able to fix the basics, the embarrassing bugs and stuff which couldn't be beliable 4 years after the release of the class.

[Kichwas.7152]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

>

> Making Hammer melee? Nah I dont really feel that should be the case.

 

I agree. Just like Mesmer and greatsword and thief with staff - it's nice to have a profession out there that uses a weapon in a very different way than others do.

 

How about melee scepter? Sound odd? well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick-fighting

 

Or ranged dagger - throwing knives.

 

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> >

> > Making Hammer melee? Nah I dont really feel that should be the case.

>

> I agree. Just like Mesmer and greatsword and thief with staff - it's nice to have a profession out there that uses a weapon in a very different way than others do.

>

> How about melee scepter? Sound odd? well:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick-fighting

>

> Or ranged dagger - throwing knives.

>

 

Or revenant flips it on its head, main-hand scepter and off hand focus? They never said that the weapons also couldn't fill different slots. Since rev is basically completely backwards it could work. And melee scepter should be fine; Though Im not sure what they'd give it but anything that can give Condi-core a second weapon set.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > >

> > > Making Hammer melee? Nah I dont really feel that should be the case.

> >

> > I agree. Just like Mesmer and greatsword and thief with staff - it's nice to have a profession out there that uses a weapon in a very different way than others do.

> >

> > How about melee scepter? Sound odd? well:

> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick-fighting

> >

> > Or ranged dagger - throwing knives.

> >

>

> Or revenant flips it on its head, main-hand scepter and off hand focus? They never said that the weapons also couldn't fill different slots. Since rev is basically completely backwards it could work. And melee scepter should be fine; Though Im not sure what they'd give it but anything that can give Condi-core a second weapon set.

 

Weird idea guys : Melee Pistol.

 

 

[ArielRebel.3426]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > >

> > > > Making Hammer melee? Nah I dont really feel that should be the case.

> > >

> > > I agree. Just like Mesmer and greatsword and thief with staff - it's nice to have a profession out there that uses a weapon in a very different way than others do.

> > >

> > > How about melee scepter? Sound odd? well:

> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick-fighting

> > >

> > > Or ranged dagger - throwing knives.

> > >

> >

> > Or revenant flips it on its head, main-hand scepter and off hand focus? They never said that the weapons also couldn't fill different slots. Since rev is basically completely backwards it could work. And melee scepter should be fine; Though Im not sure what they'd give it but anything that can give Condi-core a second weapon set.

>

> Weird idea guys : Melee Pistol.

>

>

 

I'd be down for dual wielding pistol rev non-ironically.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"felix.2386" said:

> > @"Yasai.3549" said:

>

> > HOLD UP.

> > Did yu just indirectly suggest that Hammer was, in all functionalities and forms, intended ONLY for WvW combat?

>

> clearly, it wasn't intended in the first place, but that's what anet's doing recently.

> if you look at other classes, before war pve dps was greatsword, pvp was greatsword, now pve dps is axe/axe mace/mace both combo completely trash in pvp

> and hammer is wvw exlusive as it fail to find a spot in other modes, in order to have the maximum number of playable weapons.

> like how thief pve dps was dagger, pvp was dagger, now it's pistol/pistol and staff both also completely trash in pvp.

> point is, the more weapons you have the less possible to have all weapons meta in one game mode alone, it is impossible because there will only be 1/2 meta, not only you have to compete with other weapon set of your own, also compete with other classes.

> and that the only way to have the most playable weapon is to spread them across modes, if there's a weapon by chance viable in multiple modes, that's a plus

>

> > This is exactly the problem with Hammer, and by extension, a major problem with a majority of weapon sets Revenant has access to.

> > Revenant is starved for loadout choices SOLEY BECAUSE ALL THEIR WEAPONS SEEM TO BE TAILORED AND ONLY SYNERGIZE WITH THEIR OWN LEGENDS.

>

> can't be more wrong.

>

> > Shortbow for example, has many fire and forget skills all aiming at one direction, because it supports Kalla's Summon spamming, if yu consider the Revenant unmolested in combat, which makes perfect sense.

> > This was why Shortbow was extremely unusable prior to the Feb balance patch, because there is no way in hell a player will not be untouched during a PvP match, and once a Renegade has been assaulted by any of the multiple existing burst builds, they would instantly die.

> > This is why Shortbow has now become somewhat viable because these burst builds has been toned down significantly to the point Renegade has such an easy life surviving by sitting in their Summons on point together with their team.

>

> clearly, you are not so experienced with revenant, firstly meta renegade build is shiro+jalis, not kalla summon spamming braindead sit on point useless build.

> and that shortbow has basically 0 fire and forget skills, 5 should be timed, 4 is area denial that should be placed strategically, 3 should be be paired with CC for how easily it is avoided and 2 only used mostly when kitting/ at weird angle when other skills can't hit, for it can be fired at all angle.

>

> and that last statement can't be more wrong on so many levels, firstly i already mentioned meta renegade is shiro/jalis, secondly the entire 2020 feb patch is to tone down burst builds for them to be acceptable. in result bringing more builds to the table, etc, you are saying like it is some bad thing, tell me what is wrong with that?

 

Because it didn't bring more builds to the table in any sense.

1. You have power herald (Weak, honestly. Never even see them as a threat anymore, which is why I dont play as one when I do play rev.)

2. Core, but its not as good at anything compared to the other specs at this stage. Condi or power they still sit squarely unwarranted in all modes. (PvE is all renegade if you want the damage, which seems to be outside of myself what everyone cares about.)

3. You have Renegade which has some variations but only between modes. In PvE its pretty much condi or power, with I think Alacrigade or heal-gade taking the cake. And for PvP its the shiro jalis build, which is also the same for WvW. You can run condi renegade in WvW though in PvP I dont think its viable and its not the greatest thing in WvW.

4. You have Condi herald, who in WvW is the most viable for all forms of WvW be it small scale, roaming or even squad play. With hammer rev being relegated to squads, and being worthless everywhere else.

5. All of these builds existed before, they haven't changed really outside of power-herald but thats because A-net wants it to die. Renegade as a whole, is horrid in WvW and is meme-worthy at best. Power Revenants? Lol. Guardian/warrior can do it far, far better. Condi? I mean condi revenant is good, and has been good for a long time and I suspect it will be nerfed too! Because of the QQ around it. Which is how A-net balances, is by listening to the screaming babies who demand nerfs REGARDLESS of counter play. This point is also exacerbated by the fact that revenant does NOT provide in any spec enough team synergy; And Its dueling potential is still admirable but again warrior/guardian can do it better with less effort. The class is in my opinion as someone who MAINED revenant, and tried to continue on from the feb patch the worst class in the game. Once someone knows your tricks that its, its done and you have no chance. We just have a lot of bad players who just can't be bothered to CC or bring block, or immobilize to a fight. And expect to win hands down, because "bIg DaMaGe GoEs PoW!"

 

 

Id wager they actually killed more builds than they helped, ventari as a whole is not taken hardly at all in ANY form of combat or gameplay. Shiro is honestly a meme and frankly is a underpowered peon compared to what he was; And power as a whole just doesn't feel good to play in any way, shape or form. Condi is gimmicky and honestly is kind of boring the play, its not fun at all. You proc EtD and jump in on them, pull them to you and them beat them with your mace only to swap to glint/jalis and do what you typically do from there. Nothing to it. So much of the class feels like it needs a rework now as it feels clunky, and almost painful to play with now to the point where the class is actually less appealing than it used to be. And don't get it twisted this has nothing to do with the damage numbers at all; It has squarely to do with the fact that the game and class feel like they want two different things. Im just here hoping the next E-spec will be something selfish, based around the player and not everything around them as we have enough of that. Renegade and Herald are more support orientated legends, and specs so here is hoping we get some bruiser who can go whatever way you want and can fill any role in the form of tank/dps.

 

I miss my main, but im not willing to put up with how horribly unfun it feels to play right now.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"ArielRebel.3426" said:

> > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > Making Hammer melee? Nah I dont really feel that should be the case.

> > > >

> > > > I agree. Just like Mesmer and greatsword and thief with staff - it's nice to have a profession out there that uses a weapon in a very different way than others do.

> > > >

> > > > How about melee scepter? Sound odd? well:

> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick-fighting

> > > >

> > > > Or ranged dagger - throwing knives.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Or revenant flips it on its head, main-hand scepter and off hand focus? They never said that the weapons also couldn't fill different slots. Since rev is basically completely backwards it could work. And melee scepter should be fine; Though Im not sure what they'd give it but anything that can give Condi-core a second weapon set.

> >

> > Weird idea guys : Melee Pistol.

> >

> >

>

> I'd be down for dual wielding pistol rev non-ironically.

 

Close-range swashbuckler? Could be neat. Could give us a core Corsair legend too to go along with it; That'd be pretty freak'n cool.

[ArielRebel.3426]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"ArielRebel.3426" said:

> > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > > @"Kichwas.7152" said:

> > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Making Hammer melee? Nah I dont really feel that should be the case.

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree. Just like Mesmer and greatsword and thief with staff - it's nice to have a profession out there that uses a weapon in a very different way than others do.

> > > > >

> > > > > How about melee scepter? Sound odd? well:

> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stick-fighting

> > > > >

> > > > > Or ranged dagger - throwing knives.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Or revenant flips it on its head, main-hand scepter and off hand focus? They never said that the weapons also couldn't fill different slots. Since rev is basically completely backwards it could work. And melee scepter should be fine; Though Im not sure what they'd give it but anything that can give Condi-core a second weapon set.

> > >

> > > Weird idea guys : Melee Pistol.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I'd be down for dual wielding pistol rev non-ironically.

>

> Close-range swashbuckler? Could be neat. Could give us a core Corsair legend too to go along with it; That'd be pretty freak'n cool.

 

Indeed. Just one thing, after "maining" Rev for so many years, when I decided to finally let go of him and to recently try out Engi (which is considered by many as harder/clunkier to play), I find it quite easy actually. The legend system of Rev just forces you with so many restrictions that don't bring anything to the table beside being there for the sake of being there. Engi can swap kit on the fly without being locked out of his favorite utilities, heal and/or elite skills (tho yeah he has to sacrifice a skill slot to use/equip said kit) and without having to deal with a 10sec CD between swaps. When I went from Rev to Engi, it was much easier. I haven't looked back ever since I created my Engi (which I decided would be my new main from now on lol). Sad day in a way. F for my Rev. You will be missed (I do miss the look and fashion of Rev but nothing else lol). So yeah, they would have to bring a REALLY interesting Stance that brings great skills on top of a interesting BUT STRONG weapon set for me to return on my Rev.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said

> Im just here hoping the next E-spec will be something selfish, based around the player and not everything around them as we have enough of that. Renegade and Herald are more support orientated legends, and specs so here is hoping we get some bruiser who can go whatever way you want and can fill any role in the form of tank/dps.

>

 

Two support-oriented legends yet all Ventari builds are still dogkitten in PvP and WvW. I'm happy if the next e-spec is more selfish *if and only if* they actually put in some effort to making support Rev more than a meme, and not more garbage ideas like the healing orb BS. Scrap the tablet and start from the ground up at this point.

 

[otto.5684]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > >

> > > > Like I said they nerfed it honestly due to CoR and the CC but CC does no damage now; So CoR can be returned to how it was long before they neutered it into the ground right? I mean it was the interaction of the two skills. Well one is worthless and the other is broken, so I dont feel like CoR should be in its current state.

> > >

> > > Unless hotfixed immediately, Anet NEVER reverts changes.

> > > Anet has this bad habit of nerfing everything else relating to the problem skill/trait etc. which does jack all but to weaken other options for the build.

> > > Then when they finally nerf the problem at hand, they refuse to revert.

> > >

> > > This annoys me alot tbh because the "balance" in this game isn't really balance at all because of this method of balancing.

> > > The game balance just periodically goes on a rollercoaster of ups and downs, where there are massive buffs, then massive nerfs, then massive buffs again, then massive nerfs.

> > >

> > > But these days, it seems Anet doesn't even care for that anymore ; they just spring a surprise "balance change" on us out of a blue which messes up alot of builds, reworking a whole load of things, then say goodbye for 6 months before repeating it again.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Honestly, this 100%. Frankly It worries me because of late I've been playing more and I honestly.... well Im scared that the character im working on now is gonna get nerfed into oblivion and then im back the square one. Im at the stage where if it happens again ill just dip out and not play; Like Ill unlock the living world ep's because they are free at that time. But ill just wait until end of dragons is closer and see if the game is worth coming back too.... I feel like that is the intent and how they are handling this, because as someone who had two of their oldest characters smashed to bits in Feb with many more now cropping up and making a few builds for them if those builds subsequently get wrecked then... whats the point? Im tired of having to adapt to LUDICRIOUS changes that amount to nothing, but removing the fun pieces I enjoy out of the class I play. I quit during core, and durring HoT over similar issues.... won't surprise me if Im back to where I Was. (I didn't come back immediately for PoF, Because I've never really been a fan of Elona or deserts.)

>

> Been there done that...

> I play gw2 like 4 hours a month. A year ago I was playing 2 hours a day. Then anet started destroying the classes with these dumpster patches. Lol there isn't even really a reason to play ls since no voice acting. I won't pickup a new class/build yet again because people who can't dodge will just complain it out of existence instead of learning how not to keyboard turn. You guys can keep wishing but hammer and staff are not coming back.

 

To be fair to Anet, with the exception of hammer, have done a good job on revenant as a whole. SB and renegade are very good in every game mode. Herald had some improvements in PvE (still not good). Sadly, it is the only class I can say this about.

 

Speaking purely from PvE, staff needs more damage. In a power build, I should have reason to switch to it, beside break bar or block. All classes with 2 weapon slots, tend to encourage the player to switch weapons to maximize dps. I dunno why power rev is in eternal use of only s/s. It needs some PvE diversity.

[felix.2386]

just a heads up, pvp is plagued with rev now, if you go on to the side of arena and look at anyone with plat+ badge, half of the time is rev and 40%+ of plat 2+ players i know are currently playing rev. top players are all playing power renegade, tho it's not a bruiser build and it's very glassy and alway the first target in plat2+ AT matches, but it has insane match turning potential if played well.

[otto.5684]

@"Thornwolf.9721" I am not very well informed about WvW. I would guess power renegade is good in roaming and condi renegade can be good in zergs.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> @"Thornwolf.9721" I am not very well informed about WvW. I would guess power renegade is good in roaming and condi renegade can be good in zergs.

 

Other way around.

Condi Renegade is pretty strong duelist because of how their summons boost their survivability AND dps AND has a very strong interruption zoning skill.

 

Power Renegade pretty decent in Zergs because Spiritcrush when built power is actually no joke when it comes to damage as yu basically slap IO on and drop Spiritcrush on the enemy zerg and deal pretty chunky damage on a few people, not to mention their summons can also be used to bolster the zerg or to debilitate the opposing zerg.

[Buran.3796]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> SB and renegade are very good in every game mode.

 

Nah, PvP currently projects a false image due the brutal nerfs in damage across the roster made mediocre builds viable, but as soon as the new specs arrives and the power creep burst again those builds will fall apart. How would you run a build in which the main source of damage (short bow) lacks defense and when you swap your dps falls to 0? It works because currently you can't be one shooted, but if the incoming specializations don't push the damage up again the sales will be terrible.

 

Also, I can be wrong but imo in WvW stealth classes melt Renegade: you have no target to aim against and you can't prevent burst wile wielding the short bow.

[Doctor.1384]

The main problem is that the core class literally has less utility skills and weapon skills than any other class and thats its main issue. It is literally an unfinished class!!!!!!!!! Perhaps make f2 a slottable utility skill, and then the elite specs add more f skill options. Or have a bank of extra mist themed utility skills that you can slot into either legend you have equipped so that you can have an extra stun break or an extra leap if you want them, and then rev would have similar flexibility that every other class enjoys. You could equip mist step if you want mobility, or some kind if mist themed stun break called mist meld or something that gives you 1 second of evade frames or something.

 

Or you could just give empty vessel back and thered be no more problems

 

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Doctor.1384" said:

> The main problem is that the core class literally has less utility skills and weapon skills than any other class and thats its main issue. It is literally an unfinished class!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Not quite.

The entire point of 2 locked sets of utilities was the fact they were low cooldown and powerful, but gated by Energy.

 

This design however has been repeatedly destroyed over the years as they kept increasing the costs of everything, increasing the cooldown of everything, and weapon skills still sapping Energy for some reason despite having cooldowns brought up to the level of other professions.

 

Rev would have been fine if they nerfed some of the utility functionality but kept the cost and cooldown the same.

 

But no.

 

Anet repeatedly nerfed both functionality and cost efficiency to the point it's horrible to play.

 

This is when having 2 locked utility bars work against Rev's design.

 

Imagine playing Thief but yu only have 2 loadouts for weapons which cannot be changed or altered, and each skill costed 6 Initiative.

 

That's how Rev feels right now.

 

Yur comment on Rev being unfinished is actually half right though.

 

Rev seems to be designed on release to only function with Herald.

 

Funny too because they keep nerfing core but leave Herald untouched.

 

[felix.2386]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > SB and renegade are very good in every game mode.

>

> Nah, PvP currently projects a false image due the brutal nerfs in damage across the roster made mediocre builds viable, but as soon as the new specs arrives and the power creep burst again those builds will fall apart. How would you run a build in which the main source of damage (short bow) lacks defense and when you swap your dps falls to 0? It works because currently you can't be one shooted, but if the incoming specializations don't push the damage up again the sales will be terrible.

>

> Also, I can be wrong but imo in WvW stealth classes melt Renegade: you have no target to aim against and you can't prevent burst wile wielding the short bow.

 

It's actually you having a false image of power renegade,

first of all, shortbow has enough defense as a ranged weapon, saying shortbow lacks defense just like saying s/s lacks defense, s/s only has one evade, while shortbow has knock down and slow and being ranged.

also saying all it's damage comes from shortbow,

it's like saying s/s herald's damage all comes from s/s,

which is false, also why i don't see you QQing about S/S herald?

renegade staff shiro/jalis does more damage then s/s herald staff.

in fact it does amazing damage with renegade.

specially paired with jalis hammer, giving perma 25 might with vindication in melee range, which is hard to achieve and maintain on shortbow.

 

Also saying stealth will melt shortbow is like saying stealth will melt s/s, s/s's only defense requires target, while shortbow knock doesnt, slow aoe doesnt.

 

really and really, it is your own projects a incredibly false image and being inexperienced towards renegade that's gating you seeing the true picture.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"felix.2386" said:

 

> first of all, shortbow has enough defense as a ranged weapon, saying shortbow lacks defense just like saying s/s lacks defense, s/s only has one evade, while shortbow has knock down and slow and being ranged.

 

Lmao this guy.

 

Comparing 1 evade and 1 shadowstep which can be targeted elsewhere and also used to disengage

vs.

shortbow which basically can't disengage in any form because who gives a turd about being ranged or being able to inflict slow and knockdown when all those effects can be totally ignored by boons. (which 80% of the meta builds poop out in buckets)

 

And last I checked, Renegade doesn't rip boons on their own while at least Herald Shiro TN rips boons.

[felix.2386]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"felix.2386" said:

>

> > first of all, shortbow has enough defense as a ranged weapon, saying shortbow lacks defense just like saying s/s lacks defense, s/s only has one evade, while shortbow has knock down and slow and being ranged.

>

> Lmao this guy.

>

> Comparing 1 evade and 1 shadowstep which can be targeted elsewhere and also used to disengage to shortbow which basically can't disengage in any form because who gives a kitten about being ranged or being able to inflict slow and knockdown when all those effects can be totally ignored by boons. (which 80% of the meta builds poop out in buckets)

>

> And last I checked, Renegade doesn't rip boons on their own while at least Herald Shiro TN rips boons.

 

yes, being able to deal damage from 900 range away has it's upsides,

it's funny how you consider sword 5 a reliable defense, as it relies on having targets also it is only 600 range disengage, while shortbow allows you to keep a 900 range distance to begin with. you think it is easier to kit as a shortbow that allows you to counter pressure while kitting 900 away or s/s with 600 range unreliable shadowstep and 1 counter pressure that takes you melee range again?

also you have to be eating more damage in melee range.

ah and if you use sword 5 for disengage, how else will you do any reasonable big pressure in the next 18 seconds lol.

like 40% of the s/s herald build game play is to set up and not use death strike to hit air.

 

even if you get caught in melee range, all you have to do is swap staff, jalis stab+hammer spin you instanly get and maintain 25 might as long as enemy is in melee and staff AA will hit like truck. plenty of thief got out trade by it. not to mention stab also gives weakness.

 

it's actually kinda funny how you think people poop out stab and resistance now after feb 25th, you must be living in 2019.

also funny how you think evade is better then knock down that will force stunbreak or take burst.

 

 

why am i even needed here to teach "rev mains" how to play their class wth..

[felix.2386]

Im glad tho, because unlike s/s herald, which skill demands are spread between damaging and sustaining

the difference between a good renegade and a bad one is really if you are able to sustain or not, since it really isnt hard to press ranged attacks.

and im glad that some people are finding power renegade hard to sustain, just like how some people find s/s herald hit like noodle

LOL

[Yasai.3549]

> @"felix.2386" said:

 

> yes, being able to deal damage from 900 range away has it's upsides,

> it's funny how you consider sword 5 a reliable defense, as it relies on having targets also it is only 600 range disengage, while shortbow allows you to keep a 900 range distance to begin with. you think it is easier to kit as a shortbow that allows you to counter pressure while kitting 900 away or s/s with 600 range unreliable shadowstep and 1 counter pressure that takes you melee range again?

> also you have to be eating more damage in melee range.

> ah and if you use sword 5 for disengage, how else will you do any reasonable big pressure in the next 18 seconds lol.

> like 40% of the s/s herald build game play is to set up and not use death strike to hit air.

>

> even if you get caught in melee range, all you have to do is swap staff, jalis stab+hammer spin you instanly get and maintain 25 might as long as enemy is in melee and staff AA will hit like truck. plenty of thief got out trade by it. not to mention stab also gives weakness.

>

> it's actually kinda funny how you think people poop out stab and resistance now after feb 25th, you must be living in 2019.

> also funny how you think evade is better then knock down that will force stunbreak or take burst.

>

>

> why am i even needed here to teach "rev mains" how to play their class wth..

 

Yo yu have been talking so much smack for almost 50% of this entire thread trying hard to derail it multiple times by flexing yur prowess with Rev, so maybe yu, a master Rev player, can please release some unedited PvP and WvW Renegade wins/duels for us to see please.

 

Nevermind the others, I myself would like to see what yu are talking about and maybe learn from it.

Please and thanks.

 

Oh and it would be nice if yu could show us yur PvP rank as well on yur main or whatever as well as Rev games played.

Again, just so that we can truly accept that yu are a Rev master and take pointers.

 

This much is easy, right?

 

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"felix.2386" said:

>

> > yes, being able to deal damage from 900 range away has it's upsides,

> > it's funny how you consider sword 5 a reliable defense, as it relies on having targets also it is only 600 range disengage, while shortbow allows you to keep a 900 range distance to begin with. you think it is easier to kit as a shortbow that allows you to counter pressure while kitting 900 away or s/s with 600 range unreliable shadowstep and 1 counter pressure that takes you melee range again?

> > also you have to be eating more damage in melee range.

> > ah and if you use sword 5 for disengage, how else will you do any reasonable big pressure in the next 18 seconds lol.

> > like 40% of the s/s herald build game play is to set up and not use death strike to hit air.

> >

> > even if you get caught in melee range, all you have to do is swap staff, jalis stab+hammer spin you instanly get and maintain 25 might as long as enemy is in melee and staff AA will hit like truck. plenty of thief got out trade by it. not to mention stab also gives weakness.

> >

> > it's actually kinda funny how you think people poop out stab and resistance now after feb 25th, you must be living in 2019.

> > also funny how you think evade is better then knock down that will force stunbreak or take burst.

> >

> >

> > why am i even needed here to teach "rev mains" how to play their class wth..

>

> Yo yu have been talking so much smack for almost 50% of this entire thread trying hard to derail it multiple times by flexing yur prowess with Rev, so maybe yu, a master Rev player, can please release some unedited PvP and WvW Renegade wins/duels for us to see please.

>

> Nevermind the others, I myself would like to see what yu are talking about and maybe learn from it.

> Please and thanks.

>

 

If you actually need the pointers or want to see what he’s talking about look at the past couple monthly ATs. Ren has been the revenant build of choice lately

 

 

[Yasai.3549]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

 

> If you actually need the pointers or want to see what he’s talking about look at the past couple monthly ATs. Ren has been the revenant build of choice lately

>

I know what he's talking about.

His entire arguement started when a few people on this same thread said Ren builds, or rather, Shortbow usage only became meta because the balance patch has nerfed everyone's damage and therefore Shortbow has now become "viable" even as a pure offense weapon.

 

He then begins touting his supposed skill and belittling everyone with his this supposed skill as his only defense to any argument made against his (which was defending the fact SB only became workable due to the nerfs)

 

 

 

 

[Buran.3796]

> @"felix.2386" said:

 

> really and really, it is your own projects a incredibly false image and being inexperienced towards renegade that's gating you seeing the true picture.

 

Herald with s+s and Glint/Shiro has the ability to use sword #5 to chase and sword #3 as a mix of evade/short chase/disengage, so that spec is better built to deal with stealth classes which poke at range (albeit not as well as before the nerfs in the blinds and reveals from the Revenant, or the introduction of the Deadeye, which can conceal himself after being revealed, making that ability useless).

 

Shot bow's range (900 units) itself isn't a big deal in a world in which Ranger's longbow and Deadeye's rifle do reach 1.500 units, with other classes as Mesmers reaching up to 1.200 also. All of those have plenty access to stealth and can easily interrupt actions from Renegade at range. Mobility in Jalis is no existent; it works great in small skirmishes with other party members covering our deficiences , but roaming alone every time you swap to Jalis you will become a static punching bag to those foes, while dealing also 0 damage to them.

 

Is not like power Herald is a counter to them, but played well can endure the figth and pray for a mistake which opens the door to a burst (oftenly not enough due usually roamers build their characters to have great sustain and being "unkillable", but still a chance exist). Renegade chances are way worse, specially once you ditch the concept of the control points in PvP of the equation which is WvW: the enemy doesn't need to remain in a particular zone to apply pressure to you.