uberkingkong.8041 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Who is best at strict range fights? Like two people are doing nothing but shooting at each other, who is best? Deadeye would not be best right? Too squishy? Same with Necro correct? Too squishy? Same with fresh air elementalist correct? Too squishy? Engineer not so much, does little ranged damage but has sustain? Will eventually lose correct? Dragonhunter be best maybe? Not so squishy has ranged knockbacks. Maybe Power Ranger? What you guys think? Who is best at range fights just duking it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Renegade . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallic.2397 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Scepter/Focus Weaver. It doesn't even have to be fresh air. Hybrid Scepter is just as dangerous Plus focus has so much range hate, so if it was fighting another range class, the battle would be pretty one sided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeqkOneStylez.8047 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Funnily enough its probably Ranger or Warrior if built specifically for those rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 *Hammer rev crying in the corner.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 There is a reason why it's called Ranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 ranger or deadeye hands down when you do braindead just spam from long range then deadeye probably wins by default due to 1500 range, high power damage and spammable proj block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazsi.2734 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Stricly ranged fights? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniper%27s_Cover Deadeye wins by default lol. It's good stricly ranged fights do not exist in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberkingkong.8041 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > Stricly ranged fights? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniper%27s_Cover > Deadeye wins by default lol. It's good stricly ranged fights do not exist in this game. Hrmmmm interesting. But not all ranged attacks are missiles. Some like staff elementalist is an AE on the floor. Necros do AE on the floor too Can a deadeye beat a mesmer in ranged combat? Mesmers use a lot of clones, has a lot of CC with clones, ranged CC too to interrupt deadeye long cooldown attacks. Now my next question what is considered a missile? I assume https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire is a missile but it doesn't say it is a missile However https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Tooth is this a missile? Does Sniper Cover block dragon tooth? I'm guessing missiles are anything that the crystal creatures in Jade Maw reflect, so scepter ele, all his attacks would land, correct? In a ranged fight does deadeye beat scepter ele? Scepter ele trumps mesmer too you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falan.1839 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Probably Sic em SLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberkingkong.8041 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Falan.1839" said: > Probably Sic em SLB. Yep thats totally legal, I mean your still ranged. Pets are fair game in this fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 The question is pointless. If you don't determine which skills are allowed to be used, then there is no answer. Is the ranger allowed to use the knockback? Then it wins. Is the hammer rev or rifle deadeye allowed to use its projectile block? Then they win. Is the ranger allowed to use unblockables? Then it wins. Is the hammer rev allowed to use infuse light? Then it wins. Is the ranger allowed to use stone signet? ... Is the deadeye allowed to use basilisk? ... Sceper ele uses non projectile burst but has the lowest range. Are the others allowed to outrange it? If not it wins, if the ranger is not allowed to use the knockback or the rev is not allowed to use the heal or.... It's getting complicated (pointless!) at this point. And generally speaking why would you want to create cherrypicked scenarios? That's not how the game works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 Depends if you're talking ranged vs. everything else, or ranged vs. ranged. * Power LB/GS Ranger variants are the best vs. everything else for one big reason, which I will explain. In GW2 ranged cannot stay away from everything else. Not even a Deadeye can guarantee that it never enters melee range. There are so many gap closers, teleports, movement enhancing abilities, and even reveal, that a ranged vs. everything must enter close quarter combat at times, which is mandatory. This means that the ranged character needs to be able to take care of itself in close quarter combat. Here are the problems with other ranged builds: PP or Rifle Thief/Deadeye sucks close range gets trashed - PD Thief strong bellow bell curve gets weak above bell curve too gimmicky - Pistol/Rifle Engi not even on charts - Fresh Air Eles pop like water balloons close range - Mes is mid range at best and can't deal damage with riding someone which disqualifies it as ranged - Necro is surprisingly effective at mid to 900 range and also takes care of itself close range, honestly Necro is a strong ranged option - Dragonhunter is only half ranged, he has to peck with LB and attempt to pull things into close range to deal his kill damage, I'd rank him as average ranged - Rifle War/Serk/Spell can be surprisingly potent as long range attackers, much more ranged damage than DH, but the way War is designed, it has to sacrifice pretty much ALL close range efficiency to do it, which ranks him as bad vs. everything - Renegade lately is only a hair away from being the new Ranger. Renegade is better in team fights and staying close ranged for sure, but the Ranger still outplays the Renegade at range, albeit not by much. **Power LB/GS Ranger variants are clearly the strongest ranged vs. everything. Not only does the longbow deal heavy damage over time, but the great sword has the mechanics it needs to allow the Ranger to take care of itself close range when it happens. There is a certain chemistry between LB3 LB4 GS3 GS4, that in rotation, allows the Ranger to stay safe and do what it needs to do, even if it's glass. Other ranged attackers outside of Necro are not able to do this. Power LB/GS Ranger varients are #1, with Necro & Ren being a close 2nd in my opinion.** * Now if you're talking purely ranged vs. ranged, however you want to imagine this scenario happening, Fresh Air Eles counter the hell out of every other ranged build in ranged vs. ranged if the Ele is experienced and knows how to make good use of reflects & LOS. Fresh Air Ele can be charge in at a LB/GS Ranger and bully with enough channel damage that the Ranger doesn't have the time to wait out the reflects and other defenses. The Ranger has to run and try to survive the heavy damage, and by the time the Ranger can regroup and reproach, the Ele will also have all his CDs again. Fresh Air setups are the one thing that light counters LB/GS Ranger enough, to where it would take its slot in ranged vs. ranged as #1. I'm sure that Fresh Air Ele has similar effects vs. the other ranged builds as well. The other builds can probably finds ways to kill it, in the same way a Ranger can, but it certainly isn't easy to do. Obviously a close 2nd in ranged vs. ranged will be Power LB/GS Ranger variants, and honestly probably Renegade at this point. The ONLY thing that allows the Renegade to contend here is the Taunt it has, which effectively turns its normal mid range projectiles into the range a Ranger Longbow when someone gets hit by the Taunt and walks back at the Renegade. Followed by 3rd place consisting of a tie between: War/Serk/Spell - PD/Rifle Thieves - Necro. 4th place being things like: Engis - DH - Mes. But yeah, that's my take on it as a 9 year Ranger main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. Its not like Soulbeast has access to Unblockable, right? Right? If LoS is not an option, Soulbeast will always win a straight up pew-pew fight, with probably Berserker in a close 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberkingkong.8041 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. > > Its not like Soulbeast has access to Unblockable, right? > > Right? > > If LoS is not an option, Soulbeast will always win a straight up pew-pew fight, with probably Berserker in a close 2nd. Nah, nothing to block line of sight. However, if a necro sends in all of his pets or mesmer puts up clones, etc. Is that thing gonna land still? If ranger range CC you, is it gonna land? If mesmer CC lock you from range is it gonna land? If thief decides to go invisible while your charging it, is it gonna land? If elementalist decides to turn you into dust in 3 seconds, is it gonna land? Would guardian even be good at this type of fight? Who you think would be worst at ranged to ranged fights? Engineer? Seems like Fresh Air elementalist is best unless people want to discuss why something else is better. I mean going invis and being a deadeye I think is pretty deadly, but who knows, maybe once they not invis elementalist turn them into dust. You use whatever you have to use, to win the ranged fight. Its not just a stand still fight. Its a use what you have and who has the best stuff to use wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. > > > > Its not like Soulbeast has access to Unblockable, right? > > > > Right? > > > > If LoS is not an option, Soulbeast will always win a straight up pew-pew fight, with probably Berserker in a close 2nd. > > Nah, nothing to block line of sight. > > However, if a necro sends in all of his pets or mesmer puts up clones, etc. Is that thing gonna land still? > If ranger range CC you, is it gonna land? > If mesmer CC lock you from range is it gonna land? > If thief decides to go invisible while your charging it, is it gonna land? > If elementalist decides to turn you into dust in 3 seconds, is it gonna land? > > > Would guardian even be good at this type of fight? Who you think would be worst at ranged to ranged fights? > Engineer? > Seems like Fresh Air elementalist is best unless people want to discuss why something else is better. > I mean going invis and being a deadeye I think is pretty deadly, but who knows, maybe once they not invis elementalist turn them into dust. > > You use whatever you have to use, to win the ranged fight. Its not just a stand still fight. Its a use what you have and who has the best stuff to use wins. I mean, I literally just discussed why something else is better in the post you quoted. Your reading comprehension goes from strength to strength. People have been saying Ele because they're thinking about all the projectile-denial Ele has. What they're forgetting about is unblockable effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. > > > > > > Its not like Soulbeast has access to Unblockable, right? > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > If LoS is not an option, Soulbeast will always win a straight up pew-pew fight, with probably Berserker in a close 2nd. > > > > Nah, nothing to block line of sight. > > > > However, if a necro sends in all of his pets or mesmer puts up clones, etc. Is that thing gonna land still? > > If ranger range CC you, is it gonna land? > > If mesmer CC lock you from range is it gonna land? > > If thief decides to go invisible while your charging it, is it gonna land? > > If elementalist decides to turn you into dust in 3 seconds, is it gonna land? > > > > > > Would guardian even be good at this type of fight? Who you think would be worst at ranged to ranged fights? > > Engineer? > > Seems like Fresh Air elementalist is best unless people want to discuss why something else is better. > > I mean going invis and being a deadeye I think is pretty deadly, but who knows, maybe once they not invis elementalist turn them into dust. > > > > You use whatever you have to use, to win the ranged fight. Its not just a stand still fight. Its a use what you have and who has the best stuff to use wins. > What they're forgetting about is unblockable effects. It doesn't pan out that way vs. Ele or really vs. anything at this point. There are reasons why the better Ranger players out there right now are not running unblockables unless it's the free one from lesser call of wild in marks. Too many things were changed on Ranger at this point. The only way you can have unblockables now is by directly bringing a Warhorn which makes you sacrifice Great Sword to do it, which is bad, and that Warhorn 5 only makes the pet unblockable, which means the Ranger needs to be a Soulbeast for it work on the Longbow. Then of course a Ranger could bring Signet of Hunt for unblockable, which isn't worth the lose of other utilities that are quintessential in allowing a Ranger build to function. The only other way to get unblockable is to run Marks for the free lesser call of the wild, which.. only has 2 stack intensity https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Call_of_the_Wild#WvW.2CPvP so even while using this, it can't allow a full Rapid Fire to get through to an Ele. At best you're looking at landing a couple hard hitting autos. But I cannot stress enough that Warhorn sucks on Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast. In no way is running Warhorn an option over Greatsword in our current patching. Even if it were to 1v1 a Fresh Air Ele, the gap closing or disengaging evade on GS3 and the GS4 block while walking into CC is just in every way better for cycling when the LB cool downs are recharging. And Signet of the Hunt just isn't worth taking. It's only a 10 stack of intensity, which is 1 Rapid Fire that gets through, on a 40s CD for the signet. And that's hoping the Ele doesn't dodge roll through the Rapid Fire right. The options for unblockables are a huge huge gamble, is what the problem is. The chances that the unblockable will do its work and allow you to land damage, is a lot lower than the chances that the opponent will dodge roll or LOS or pull something that makes you waste your unblockable CD, which chances of this are high against better opponents. But hard defensive utilities always work, like Protect Me, Sig Of Stone, Light Ref, and all on shorter CDs to boot. But yeah, things have changed too much. The new intensity stack system for unblockable puts really big limitations on the Ranger's ability to say: "land a LB5 while also landing Rapid Fire" which is the kind of kill combo you need to land to down something right. But with all these skills having: "lesser call 2 stacks" "normal call 3 stacks" "sig of hunt 10 stacks on 40s cd" less than half of your burst will make it through. These unblockable abilities are only practical for landing Maul and pet F2s at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuma.1503 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 My bets on deadeye. You've got snipers cover, on demand stealth, immobilize to set up your death's judgment, smokescreen for projectile denial, and your own personal boon generation. Their hardest matchup would probably be sic em soulbeast with unblockable signet, but they can run evade utilities to deal with that opening burst, then the soulbeast will be stuck pew pewing at smoke walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Kuma.1503" said: > My bets on deadeye. > > You've got snipers cover, on demand stealth, immobilize to set up your death's judgment, smokescreen for projectile denial, and your own personal boon generation. > > Their hardest matchup would probably be sic em soulbeast with unblockable signet, but they can run evade utilities to deal with that opening burst, then the soulbeast will be stuck pew pewing at smoke walls. > > A good Soulbeast beats a good Deadeye 90% of the time even without unblockables. LB5 with One Wolf Pack is enough to push the Deadeye out from behind his screen, and when he has Sic Em reveal on, the Ranger can just begin casting Rapid Fire and regardless of if the DE brings Meld to kill the reveal or not, the Rapid Fire with One Wolf Pack will continue to target and the Deadeye dies. Worst case scenario the DE tries to LOS, but pets follow anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. > > > > > > > > Its not like Soulbeast has access to Unblockable, right? > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > If LoS is not an option, Soulbeast will always win a straight up pew-pew fight, with probably Berserker in a close 2nd. > > > > > > Nah, nothing to block line of sight. > > > > > > However, if a necro sends in all of his pets or mesmer puts up clones, etc. Is that thing gonna land still? > > > If ranger range CC you, is it gonna land? > > > If mesmer CC lock you from range is it gonna land? > > > If thief decides to go invisible while your charging it, is it gonna land? > > > If elementalist decides to turn you into dust in 3 seconds, is it gonna land? > > > > > > > > > Would guardian even be good at this type of fight? Who you think would be worst at ranged to ranged fights? > > > Engineer? > > > Seems like Fresh Air elementalist is best unless people want to discuss why something else is better. > > > I mean going invis and being a deadeye I think is pretty deadly, but who knows, maybe once they not invis elementalist turn them into dust. > > > > > > You use whatever you have to use, to win the ranged fight. Its not just a stand still fight. Its a use what you have and who has the best stuff to use wins. > > What they're forgetting about is unblockable effects. > > It doesn't pan out that way vs. Ele or really vs. anything at this point. There are reasons why the better Ranger players out there right now are not running unblockables unless it's the free one from lesser call of wild in marks. > > Too many things were changed on Ranger at this point. The only way you can have unblockables now is by directly bringing a Warhorn which makes you sacrifice Great Sword to do it, which is bad, and that Warhorn 5 only makes the pet unblockable, which means the Ranger needs to be a Soulbeast for it work on the Longbow. Then of course a Ranger could bring Signet of Hunt for unblockable, which isn't worth the lose of other utilities that are quintessential in allowing a Ranger build to function. The only other way to get unblockable is to run Marks for the free lesser call of the wild, which.. only has 2 stack intensity https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Call_of_the_Wild#WvW.2CPvP so even while using this, it can't allow a full Rapid Fire to get through to an Ele. At best you're looking at landing a couple hard hitting autos. But I cannot stress enough that Warhorn sucks on Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast. In no way is running Warhorn an option over Greatsword in our current patching. Even if it were to 1v1 a Fresh Air Ele, the gap closing or disengaging evade on GS3 and the GS4 block while walking into CC is just in every way better for cycling when the LB cool downs are recharging. And Signet of the Hunt just isn't worth taking. It's only a 10 stack of intensity, which is 1 Rapid Fire that gets through, on a 40s CD for the signet. And that's hoping the Ele doesn't dodge roll through the Rapid Fire right. The options for unblockables are a huge huge gamble, is what the problem is. The chances that the unblockable will do its work and allow you to land damage, is a lot lower than the chances that the opponent will dodge roll or LOS or pull something that makes you waste your unblockable CD, which chances of this are high against better opponents. But hard defensive utilities always work, like Protect Me, Sig Of Stone, Light Ref, and all on shorter CDs to boot. > > But yeah, things have changed too much. The new intensity stack system for unblockable puts really big limitations on the Ranger's ability to say: "land a LB5 while also landing Rapid Fire" which is the kind of kill combo you need to land to down something right. But with all these skills having: "lesser call 2 stacks" "normal call 3 stacks" "sig of hunt 10 stacks on 40s cd" less than half of your burst will make it through. These unblockable abilities are only practical for landing Maul and pet F2s at this point. That's all well and good. But we're not talking about a realistic in-game scenario, we're talking about an idealised range vs range scenario, where melee, LoS, +1s etc are all not considered. And in this scenario an ideal ranged build wouldn't need to worry about picking GS to survive. It could take Warhorn, Signet of the Hunt, etc etc. So all this talk about "not worth taking in a real game" is kinda missing the point. Because if we were talking about a real game scenario, then the actual answer would be to pick thief/rev and teleport into melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. > > > > > > > > > > Its not like Soulbeast has access to Unblockable, right? > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > If LoS is not an option, Soulbeast will always win a straight up pew-pew fight, with probably Berserker in a close 2nd. > > > > > > > > Nah, nothing to block line of sight. > > > > > > > > However, if a necro sends in all of his pets or mesmer puts up clones, etc. Is that thing gonna land still? > > > > If ranger range CC you, is it gonna land? > > > > If mesmer CC lock you from range is it gonna land? > > > > If thief decides to go invisible while your charging it, is it gonna land? > > > > If elementalist decides to turn you into dust in 3 seconds, is it gonna land? > > > > > > > > > > > > Would guardian even be good at this type of fight? Who you think would be worst at ranged to ranged fights? > > > > Engineer? > > > > Seems like Fresh Air elementalist is best unless people want to discuss why something else is better. > > > > I mean going invis and being a deadeye I think is pretty deadly, but who knows, maybe once they not invis elementalist turn them into dust. > > > > > > > > You use whatever you have to use, to win the ranged fight. Its not just a stand still fight. Its a use what you have and who has the best stuff to use wins. > > > What they're forgetting about is unblockable effects. > > > > It doesn't pan out that way vs. Ele or really vs. anything at this point. There are reasons why the better Ranger players out there right now are not running unblockables unless it's the free one from lesser call of wild in marks. > > > > Too many things were changed on Ranger at this point. The only way you can have unblockables now is by directly bringing a Warhorn which makes you sacrifice Great Sword to do it, which is bad, and that Warhorn 5 only makes the pet unblockable, which means the Ranger needs to be a Soulbeast for it work on the Longbow. Then of course a Ranger could bring Signet of Hunt for unblockable, which isn't worth the lose of other utilities that are quintessential in allowing a Ranger build to function. The only other way to get unblockable is to run Marks for the free lesser call of the wild, which.. only has 2 stack intensity https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Call_of_the_Wild#WvW.2CPvP so even while using this, it can't allow a full Rapid Fire to get through to an Ele. At best you're looking at landing a couple hard hitting autos. But I cannot stress enough that Warhorn sucks on Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast. In no way is running Warhorn an option over Greatsword in our current patching. Even if it were to 1v1 a Fresh Air Ele, the gap closing or disengaging evade on GS3 and the GS4 block while walking into CC is just in every way better for cycling when the LB cool downs are recharging. And Signet of the Hunt just isn't worth taking. It's only a 10 stack of intensity, which is 1 Rapid Fire that gets through, on a 40s CD for the signet. And that's hoping the Ele doesn't dodge roll through the Rapid Fire right. The options for unblockables are a huge huge gamble, is what the problem is. The chances that the unblockable will do its work and allow you to land damage, is a lot lower than the chances that the opponent will dodge roll or LOS or pull something that makes you waste your unblockable CD, which chances of this are high against better opponents. But hard defensive utilities always work, like Protect Me, Sig Of Stone, Light Ref, and all on shorter CDs to boot. > > > > But yeah, things have changed too much. The new intensity stack system for unblockable puts really big limitations on the Ranger's ability to say: "land a LB5 while also landing Rapid Fire" which is the kind of kill combo you need to land to down something right. But with all these skills having: "lesser call 2 stacks" "normal call 3 stacks" "sig of hunt 10 stacks on 40s cd" less than half of your burst will make it through. These unblockable abilities are only practical for landing Maul and pet F2s at this point. > > That's all well and good. > > But we're not talking about a realistic in-game scenario, we're talking about an idealised range vs range scenario, where melee, LoS, +1s etc are all not considered. So am I. Reread my first post in here. > > And in this scenario an ideal ranged build wouldn't need to worry about picking GS to survive. It could take Warhorn, Signet of the Hunt, etc etc. So all this talk about "not worth taking in a real game" is kinda missing the point. It needs GS for the evade, the block, and the mobility to get places quickly like LOS or out of range of the Fresh Air channeling, which is a very large portion of being able to beat the Fresh Air Ele. The Sword leaps suck and they'll suck even more if you try to use a Warhorn and don't have a block to pair with your evade while defensing and allowing LB to come off CDs. You're a sitting duck for 9s vs. that channel that can't be entirely avoided without streaming dodge > evade > block, if you try to bring Warhorn. Using an Axe won't be enough pressure to cull off the Ele. He'll get aggressive and chase. The GS is the only way to survive the large DPS without entirely disengaging from the fight. Also remember that while using things like LB5 and LB2, the Ranger has to stand still and allow animations to finish. The Ele just fires back while having invulns and reflects. The Ele just counters the Ranger in ranged play man. But that's what I was trying to point out is that the stack intensity is too low on those skills for ranged LB ranged play. If you want to talk about only using ranged and never melee, 2 stacks from lesser & 3 stacks from normal & 10 stacks from sig is still not enough stacks combined to allow a full LB5 + LB2 burst to chain together and finish and actually land kill damage against the Ele. You will not be beating the Ele by tagging it with autos alone. And g'luck with that when you're missing the evade & block off GS and sacked a defensive utility for Sig 40s CD ^^ Anyway, w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > Stricly ranged fights? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniper%27s_Cover > > Deadeye wins by default lol. It's good stricly ranged fights do not exist in this game. > > Hrmmmm interesting. > But not all ranged attacks are missiles. > Some like staff elementalist is an AE on the floor. > Necros do AE on the floor too > > Can a deadeye beat a mesmer in ranged combat? Mesmers use a lot of clones, has a lot of CC with clones, ranged CC too to interrupt deadeye long cooldown attacks. > > Now my next question what is considered a missile? > I assume https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire is a missile but it doesn't say it is a missile > However https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Tooth is this a missile? Does Sniper Cover block dragon tooth? > > I'm guessing missiles are anything that the crystal creatures in Jade Maw reflect, so scepter ele, all his attacks would land, correct? > > In a ranged fight does deadeye beat scepter ele? > Scepter ele trumps mesmer too you think? Every deadeye skill deals much more damage than every mesmer skill. The only reliable ranged option in the hands of a mesmer is GS aa. Everything else is either telegraphed AF or has very long cooldowns, or both. Mesmer is a class that could reliably get past sniper's cover thanks to so many attacks being beams rather than projectiles. Still, it wouldn't be enough, I would NEVER challenge a deadeye to a ranged fight, it's asking for troubles and it doesn't end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberkingkong.8041 Posted October 22, 2020 Author Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > Stricly ranged fights? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sniper%27s_Cover > > > Deadeye wins by default lol. It's good stricly ranged fights do not exist in this game. > > > > Hrmmmm interesting. > > But not all ranged attacks are missiles. > > Some like staff elementalist is an AE on the floor. > > Necros do AE on the floor too > > > > Can a deadeye beat a mesmer in ranged combat? Mesmers use a lot of clones, has a lot of CC with clones, ranged CC too to interrupt deadeye long cooldown attacks. > > > > Now my next question what is considered a missile? > > I assume https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire is a missile but it doesn't say it is a missile > > However https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Tooth is this a missile? Does Sniper Cover block dragon tooth? > > > > I'm guessing missiles are anything that the crystal creatures in Jade Maw reflect, so scepter ele, all his attacks would land, correct? > > > > In a ranged fight does deadeye beat scepter ele? > > Scepter ele trumps mesmer too you think? > > Every deadeye skill deals much more damage than every mesmer skill. The only reliable ranged option in the hands of a mesmer is GS aa. Everything else is either telegraphed AF or has very long cooldowns, or both. > > Mesmer is a class that could reliably get past sniper's cover thanks to so many attacks being beams rather than projectiles. Still, it wouldn't be enough, I would NEVER challenge a deadeye to a ranged fight, it's asking for troubles and it doesn't end well. This isn't just a straight up DPS fight. You use whatever abilities you have. Has to be ranged though. Pets are considered ranged, clones are considered range. Mesmer interrupts you, now what? You have a clone in your LOS, now what? Mesmer can invis too.... NOW WHAT?? This is a ranged FIGHT. Meaning you doing what you can to win, but gotta be RANGED. This isn't a ranged BURN thread, this thread is nothing to do with who BURNS the other faster. FIGHT DO WHAT YOU DO TO WIN No there is no pole or something to hide behind to avoid stuff. Pretend someone just ticked you off by ranging you all day, and you wanna show em up ranging back at them. Dumb deadeye standing in corner sniping you, well time to show him whats what. Deadeye telling you they king of range..... ARE THEY??? Who can show who.... WHATS WHAT Whose the best dang fighter in range fights!!!! Fresh air that deadeye up, teach him his lesson. Mesmer that deadeye up, teach him his lesson Soulbeast that fresh air ele up, teach him his lesson. Mesmer that soulbeast up, teach him his lesson. .... When it comes right down too it. WHOSE THE BEST!?!?! RANGE ONLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > > > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > > > @stallic is right, scepter ele. it has reflects and ranged non projectiles. yall are trippin. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not like Soulbeast has access to Unblockable, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > If LoS is not an option, Soulbeast will always win a straight up pew-pew fight, with probably Berserker in a close 2nd. > > > > > > > > > > Nah, nothing to block line of sight. > > > > > > > > > > However, if a necro sends in all of his pets or mesmer puts up clones, etc. Is that thing gonna land still? > > > > > If ranger range CC you, is it gonna land? > > > > > If mesmer CC lock you from range is it gonna land? > > > > > If thief decides to go invisible while your charging it, is it gonna land? > > > > > If elementalist decides to turn you into dust in 3 seconds, is it gonna land? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would guardian even be good at this type of fight? Who you think would be worst at ranged to ranged fights? > > > > > Engineer? > > > > > Seems like Fresh Air elementalist is best unless people want to discuss why something else is better. > > > > > I mean going invis and being a deadeye I think is pretty deadly, but who knows, maybe once they not invis elementalist turn them into dust. > > > > > > > > > > You use whatever you have to use, to win the ranged fight. Its not just a stand still fight. Its a use what you have and who has the best stuff to use wins. > > > > What they're forgetting about is unblockable effects. > > > > > > It doesn't pan out that way vs. Ele or really vs. anything at this point. There are reasons why the better Ranger players out there right now are not running unblockables unless it's the free one from lesser call of wild in marks. > > > > > > Too many things were changed on Ranger at this point. The only way you can have unblockables now is by directly bringing a Warhorn which makes you sacrifice Great Sword to do it, which is bad, and that Warhorn 5 only makes the pet unblockable, which means the Ranger needs to be a Soulbeast for it work on the Longbow. Then of course a Ranger could bring Signet of Hunt for unblockable, which isn't worth the lose of other utilities that are quintessential in allowing a Ranger build to function. The only other way to get unblockable is to run Marks for the free lesser call of the wild, which.. only has 2 stack intensity https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lesser_Call_of_the_Wild#WvW.2CPvP so even while using this, it can't allow a full Rapid Fire to get through to an Ele. At best you're looking at landing a couple hard hitting autos. But I cannot stress enough that Warhorn sucks on Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast. In no way is running Warhorn an option over Greatsword in our current patching. Even if it were to 1v1 a Fresh Air Ele, the gap closing or disengaging evade on GS3 and the GS4 block while walking into CC is just in every way better for cycling when the LB cool downs are recharging. And Signet of the Hunt just isn't worth taking. It's only a 10 stack of intensity, which is 1 Rapid Fire that gets through, on a 40s CD for the signet. And that's hoping the Ele doesn't dodge roll through the Rapid Fire right. The options for unblockables are a huge huge gamble, is what the problem is. The chances that the unblockable will do its work and allow you to land damage, is a lot lower than the chances that the opponent will dodge roll or LOS or pull something that makes you waste your unblockable CD, which chances of this are high against better opponents. But hard defensive utilities always work, like Protect Me, Sig Of Stone, Light Ref, and all on shorter CDs to boot. > > > > > > But yeah, things have changed too much. The new intensity stack system for unblockable puts really big limitations on the Ranger's ability to say: "land a LB5 while also landing Rapid Fire" which is the kind of kill combo you need to land to down something right. But with all these skills having: "lesser call 2 stacks" "normal call 3 stacks" "sig of hunt 10 stacks on 40s cd" less than half of your burst will make it through. These unblockable abilities are only practical for landing Maul and pet F2s at this point. > > > > That's all well and good. > > > > But we're not talking about a realistic in-game scenario, we're talking about an idealised range vs range scenario, where melee, LoS, +1s etc are all not considered. > > So am I. Reread my first post in here. > > > > > And in this scenario an ideal ranged build wouldn't need to worry about picking GS to survive. It could take Warhorn, Signet of the Hunt, etc etc. So all this talk about "not worth taking in a real game" is kinda missing the point. > > It needs GS for the evade, the block, and the mobility to get places quickly like LOS or out of range of the Fresh Air channeling, which is a very large portion of being able to beat the Fresh Air Ele. The Sword leaps suck and they'll suck even more if you try to use a Warhorn and don't have a block to pair with your evade while defensing and allowing LB to come off CDs. You're a sitting duck for 9s vs. that channel that can't be entirely avoided without streaming dodge > evade > block, if you try to bring Warhorn. Using an Axe won't be enough pressure to cull off the Ele. He'll get aggressive and chase. The GS is the only way to survive the large DPS without entirely disengaging from the fight. Also remember that while using things like LB5 and LB2, the Ranger has to stand still and allow animations to finish. The Ele just fires back while having invulns and reflects. The Ele just counters the Ranger in ranged play man. > > But that's what I was trying to point out is that the stack intensity is too low on those skills for ranged LB ranged play. If you want to talk about only using ranged and never melee, 2 stacks from lesser & 3 stacks from normal & 10 stacks from sig is still not enough stacks combined to allow a full LB5 + LB2 burst to chain together and finish and actually land kill damage against the Ele. You will not be beating the Ele by tagging it with autos alone. And g'luck with that when you're missing the evade & block off GS and sacked a defensive utility for Sig 40s CD ^^ > > Anyway, w/e. > > "We're talking about an idealised range vs range scenario, where melee, **LoS**, +1s etc are all not considered" "So am I" "It needs GS for the..... mobility to get places quickly like **LoS**" I really don't think you've understood the question being asked here. You're in an completely open, flat area, no cover. You can strafe and dodge, but you can't close to melee range, nor can you disengage out of range. You don't need GS to survive, because you can simply burn the Ele down within 3 seconds, since it can't run for cover in this scenario, and its projectile-denials are made redundant by unblockables. Also, what invulns does Ele have that it can use while casting? Did you perhaps miss the Feb update to Obsidian Flesh? All of that said, I'm now thinking that actually Berserker beats out Soulbeast here. Pop all signets + Defiant Stance, plus Balanced Stance, and Volley will out-DPS Rapid-Fire. And again, all of this is unblockable, so Ele, DE, DH, Rev, are all out-of-luck. I'm not suggesting that any of these are actually strong builds for Conquest. Once again, this is a hypothetical, idealised, un-realistic scenario. Nobody's asking for Ranger nerfs off the back of this discussion, so you can turn off your Ranger-Police siren and blue lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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