I'm back from a hiatus and...

[DeceiverX.8361]

I mean let's be real, it was overpowered with two. I did the math out a long time ago demonstrating with the right runes and food alongside its previous meta builds, Mirage had higher evasion uptime than Acro thief.

 

Unfortunately ANet took the easy way out per the usual and instead of reworking the absolutely-terribly-unhealthy-and-supremely-overpowered mechanics which were MC and ambush skills, they just removed the dodge and seemingly called it a day

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I mean let's be real, it was overpowered with two. I did the math out a long time ago demonstrating with the right runes and food alongside its previous meta builds, Mirage had higher evasion uptime than Acro thief.

>

> Unfortunately ANet took the easy way out per the usual and instead of reworking the absolutely-terribly-unhealthy-and-supremely-overpowered mechanics which were MC and ambush skills, they just removed the dodge and seemingly called it a day

 

But that's the whole point of the class?

Illusion trickster duelist, evasion is kind of the point.

 

Also i don't understand the logic, Mirage had probably the highest evasion like you said, so that's somehow bad - but now Thief has highest evasion, does this mean thief is bad now and they'll cut his dodges in half because you're not supposed to be the best at something? That makes no sense. Some professions will have the highest "something", be best at "something", that doesn't mean it's broken, that just means they're good at one particular thing. It's only bad if you get 1 shotted by a Mirage that has tons of defense and tons of evasion on top of that. But it had neither, it only had good evasion.

 

I don't get why ambush skills were bad either, but at least i agree they should have changed something else instead of dodges.

Maybe rework mirrors or other skills or traits, idk...

 

Just not mess with the core mechanic of the game - that's still present in PvE might i add, making this change very bad.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > I mean let's be real, it was overpowered with two. I did the math out a long time ago demonstrating with the right runes and food alongside its previous meta builds, Mirage had higher evasion uptime than Acro thief.

> >

> > Unfortunately ANet took the easy way out per the usual and instead of reworking the absolutely-terribly-unhealthy-and-supremely-overpowered mechanics which were MC and ambush skills, they just removed the dodge and seemingly called it a day

>

> But that's the whole point of the class?

> Illusion trickster duelist, evasion is kind of the point.

>

> Also i don't understand the logic, Mirage had probably the highest evasion like you said, so that's somehow bad - but now Thief has highest evasion, does this mean thief is bad now and they'll cut his dodges in half because you're not supposed to be the best at something? That makes no sense. Some professions will have the highest "something", be best at "something", that doesn't mean it's broken, that just means they're good at one particular thing. It's only bad if you get 1 shotted by a Mirage that has tons of defense and tons of evasion on top of that. But it had neither, it only had good evasion.

>

> I don't get why ambush skills were bad either, but at least i agree they should have changed something else instead of dodges.

> Maybe rework mirrors or other skills or traits, idk...

>

> Just not mess with the core mechanic of the game - that's still present in PvE might i add, making this change very bad.

 

Stealth is also a major facet of the thief's purpose. It doesn't change the fact that stacking stealth in general is horrible design and should have been reworked years ago to be more predictable.

 

They also did nerf Daredevil's dodge access with the UC changes, nerfed Acrobatics multiple times, and it's STILL overloaded. And even as someone with substantial stake in the thief class I acknowledge and recognize it as flawed. It doesn't excuse Mesmer of having access to something still-better, because even the thief is susceptible to being hit when CC'ed. The mirage literally was immune to CC-burst combos because the CC actually didn't matter on its own. That's **BROKEN**.

 

The entire basis of the thief was also built around evasion and has historically been used as the reasoning behind nerfing various facets of the thief even unrelated to its evasion-based builds, whereas the mesmer was not designed with this as a core tenet; the mesmer was built around being difficult to isolate and pin down, and as a summoner via clones and phantasms with a plethora of effects in its shatters and CC to control and react to combat as it went on.

 

Imagine Thieves Guild being better than Phantasms with similarly-low cooldowns as most phantasm skills, and being switched to just a regular utility skill, with ammo. Now imagine a thief telling you as a mesmer that "It's okay for the thief to be the better summoner, someone has to be the best." That's a horrible argument. A class being better at something than another is not a problem. A class performing better at something that an entire other class was deliberately designed to be the best at is called overpowered. It's like advocating boonbeast was healthy because something has to be tankiest, despite the ranger not being designed to tank and the warrior having been a significantly weaker tank at the time. It doesn't work like that.

 

The Ambush skills provided a mixture of excess utility and/or damage on their respective weapons at no real cost. It's not like mesmers weren't running MH sword for defense for BF, and their condi builds lacking huge burst damage as it was.

 

MC, by design, is impossible to balance and just a horrible concept for any PvP environment. Even CMC acknowledged this like a month ago on stream.

 

The mechanics themselves were bad for the game and bad for the class. It's a fun "theme" that may work in PvE for flavor, but undermines the integrity of the game's sPvP/WvW balance more than it should. Subsequently, I stand by my original statement: Mirage didn't deserve to have its dodge reduced to 1, but instead needed to have MC and Ambush skills completely scrapped and redone conceptually. Some concepts just have no place in games, and MC in particular was one of such concepts.

[Yoci.2481]

I like this quote:

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> MC, by design, is impossible to balance and just a horrible concept for any PvP environment. Even CMC acknowledged this like a month ago on stream.

 

Ohh, even CMC. Well if even the big Mesmer supporter CMC says it.

 

=)

[scerevisiae.1972]

Can't comment on sPVP side cause i don't play it but from WVW perspective, 1 dodge mirage is just terrible, really terrible. Feels bad and damage/survivability is well below other classes that are far easier to play, eg: flamethrower scrapper - top DPS in zerg fights, just needs to press w and autoattack and scrapper gyro on spikes.

 

Probably the worst/least justified nerf/balancing decision i've seen in 20+ years of playin MMOs.

[Salt Mode.3780]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

 

> Well, all mesmers have Blink, Illusionary leap (sword 3), Diversion, Magic Bullet and Into the Void, but in addition to that Mirage has Axes of Symmetry, Mirage Advance and Jaunt on top of that. If a Mirage wants to chase you, they will and it's hard to get away. That part of your statement is not quite right...

>

 

Blink is a 30 sec stunbreak, so are you really able to catch up to people with people being able to leap on weapon skills that have much shorter cd?

Illusionary leap, i am pretty sure or perhaps it might just be me but condi mirage does not use sword because it does nothing to offer dmg. Even if sword is being played tht skill is buggy since day 1.

Diversion is not a catch up mechanic and it only dazes not stun meaning u r still able to move freely from it. Playing a condi mirage shattering clones is dps loss.

Magic Bullet is pistol off hand which im not sure how many full on tb condi mirages use this weapon as offhand but regardless it is a 25 sec CD tht can be stun broken.

Into the Void is a focus pull again I dont know what condi mirage build uses focus offhand because it offers literally nothing.

Axes of symmetry is a mid to close range skill u will have to be close enough for it to do anything.

Mirage Advance is a cast blink i dont know why anyone would even choose this skill to use. what are you replacing decoy? signet of midnight? blink even??? or perhaps illusionary ambush??

Using Jaunt to catch up with a range of 450 is a joke and a total waste.

 

Again you fail to comprehend what i mean by sticking to your target and being able to chase. Most of the things you listed have high CD or Utilities tht r not used or is a incredible waste trying to catch someone.

Most classes tht can stick to u have shorter cd on leaps / dashes and many times they r only weapon skills NOT utilities.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > I mean let's be real, it was overpowered with two. I did the math out a long time ago demonstrating with the right runes and food alongside its previous meta builds, Mirage had higher evasion uptime than Acro thief.

> > >

> > > Unfortunately ANet took the easy way out per the usual and instead of reworking the absolutely-terribly-unhealthy-and-supremely-overpowered mechanics which were MC and ambush skills, they just removed the dodge and seemingly called it a day

> >

> > But that's the whole point of the class?

> > Illusion trickster duelist, evasion is kind of the point.

> >

> > Also i don't understand the logic, Mirage had probably the highest evasion like you said, so that's somehow bad - but now Thief has highest evasion, does this mean thief is bad now and they'll cut his dodges in half because you're not supposed to be the best at something? That makes no sense. Some professions will have the highest "something", be best at "something", that doesn't mean it's broken, that just means they're good at one particular thing. It's only bad if you get 1 shotted by a Mirage that has tons of defense and tons of evasion on top of that. But it had neither, it only had good evasion.

> >

> > I don't get why ambush skills were bad either, but at least i agree they should have changed something else instead of dodges.

> > Maybe rework mirrors or other skills or traits, idk...

> >

> > Just not mess with the core mechanic of the game - that's still present in PvE might i add, making this change very bad.

>

> Stealth is also a major facet of the thief's purpose. It doesn't change the fact that stacking stealth in general is horrible design and should have been reworked years ago to be more predictable.

>

> They also did nerf Daredevil's dodge access with the UC changes, nerfed Acrobatics multiple times, and it's STILL overloaded. And even as someone with substantial stake in the thief class I acknowledge and recognize it as flawed. It doesn't excuse Mesmer of having access to something still-better, because even the thief is susceptible to being hit when CC'ed. The mirage literally was immune to CC-burst combos because the CC actually didn't matter on its own. That's **BROKEN**.

>

> The entire basis of the thief was also built around evasion and has historically been used as the reasoning behind nerfing various facets of the thief even unrelated to its evasion-based builds, whereas the mesmer was not designed with this as a core tenet; the mesmer was built around being difficult to isolate and pin down, and as a summoner via clones and phantasms with a plethora of effects in its shatters and CC to control and react to combat as it went on.

>

> Imagine Thieves Guild being better than Phantasms with similarly-low cooldowns as most phantasm skills, and being switched to just a regular utility skill, with ammo. Now imagine a thief telling you as a mesmer that "It's okay for the thief to be the better summoner, someone has to be the best." That's a horrible argument. A class being better at something than another is not a problem. A class performing better at something that an entire other class was deliberately designed to be the best at is called overpowered. It's like advocating boonbeast was healthy because something has to be tankiest, despite the ranger not being designed to tank and the warrior having been a significantly weaker tank at the time. It doesn't work like that.

>

> The Ambush skills provided a mixture of excess utility and/or damage on their respective weapons at no real cost. It's not like mesmers weren't running MH sword for defense for BF, and their condi builds lacking huge burst damage as it was.

>

> MC, by design, is impossible to balance and just a horrible concept for any PvP environment. Even CMC acknowledged this like a month ago on stream.

>

> The mechanics themselves were bad for the game and bad for the class. It's a fun "theme" that may work in PvE for flavor, but undermines the integrity of the game's sPvP/WvW balance more than it should. Subsequently, I stand by my original statement: Mirage didn't deserve to have its dodge reduced to 1, but instead needed to have MC and Ambush skills completely scrapped and redone conceptually. Some concepts just have no place in games, and MC in particular was one of such concepts.

 

You completely missed the point of this thread and what i said.

This thread is about Mirage losing a core mechanic that is by default available to every other class regardless of what they can and can't do.

Your argument is "mirage is immune to CC bursts from one profession so let's cripple the core mechanic"? Which i don't agree with, mirage wasn't even remotely broken in that regard, and even if that was the case, so what? God forbid a class was good at something right?

Does that mean that it would be totally justified to remove one dodge form an Elementalist because they have tons of condi clense and are practically immune to condis from a Mirage?

What about invisibility spam? They get to be invisible - BROKEN - lose one dodge!

 

As to what's "broken" i could go on really and give every class an angry "that's SO BROKEN" rant like you did, but that's not the topic of the thread, so i won't.

 

The problem is that the missing dodge is too big of a cripple compared to having it in PvE, especially since you NEED it in WvW regardless of what Mirage was or wasn't capable of because, for everyone else to have it, and the entire game and WvW balanced around AOE spam, losing that dodge is completely unfair to Mirage and completely unjustified, and i wouldn't want any profession that is marginally good at something to lose a core mechanic but rather either let it be good at something (like the rest of the professions are), or balance it with traits and skills.

 

I will have no further discussion in this thread about what is or isn't OP, if you want to discuss that, open up a new thread. I never said i was opposed to balance pathces where needed, some of them were justified even, for every profession, even Mirage. Every balance patch that happened, i never complained i just adapted, but the point still stands. Every patch, Mesmers are getting more and more nerfed, but messing with core gameplay mechanics that we spent years taking for granted, and indeed others still do - is unfair.

 

That's what the thread is about.

 

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

>

> > Well, all mesmers have Blink, Illusionary leap (sword 3), Diversion, Magic Bullet and Into the Void, but in addition to that Mirage has Axes of Symmetry, Mirage Advance and Jaunt on top of that. If a Mirage wants to chase you, they will and it's hard to get away. That part of your statement is not quite right...

> >

>

> Blink is a 30 sec stunbreak, so are you really able to catch up to people with people being able to leap on weapon skills that have much shorter cd?

> Illusionary leap, i am pretty sure or perhaps it might just be me but condi mirage does not use sword because it does nothing to offer dmg. Even if sword is being played tht skill is buggy since day 1.

> Diversion is not a catch up mechanic and it only dazes not stun meaning u r still able to move freely from it. Playing a condi mirage shattering clones is dps loss.

> Magic Bullet is pistol off hand which im not sure how many full on tb condi mirages use this weapon as offhand but regardless it is a 25 sec CD tht can be stun broken.

> Into the Void is a focus pull again I dont know what condi mirage build uses focus offhand because it offers literally nothing.

> Axes of symmetry is a mid to close range skill u will have to be close enough for it to do anything.

> Mirage Advance is a cast blink i dont know why anyone would even choose this skill to use. what are you replacing decoy? signet of midnight? blink even??? or perhaps illusionary ambush??

> Using Jaunt to catch up with a range of 450 is a joke and a total waste.

>

> Again you fail to comprehend what i mean by sticking to your target and being able to chase. Most of the things you listed have high CD or Utilities tht r not used or is a incredible waste trying to catch someone.

> Most classes tht can stick to u have shorter cd on leaps / dashes and many times they r only weapon skills NOT utilities.

 

Not everyone uses meta builds you know. And yes, i used Mirage Advance to chase people, and yes i killed them with it.

I also used a pistol and a staff, and pistol 5 does interrupt or even daze people from time to time.

 

And i used Jaunt and Blink to chase people too. What of it?

 

The point of the rest was to say that "it's available", not necesarry that people will use it.

And hell, some people even will. Sword not meta on Mirage? I've seen them with Swords, and while Illusionary leap is really bugged, it sometimes works.

 

I know other professions have way more options for catch up, but to say that mirage doesn't just because the meta build uses Illusionary ambush and not leap, or that Jaunt "shouldn't" be used like that is kinda short sighted, no offense. There's more options to play the game your way than just copying meta builds.

 

After all, a meta build isn't going to do you any good if you don't like how it plays and feels. If that's the case, you're better off using skills that suit YOU and you're good at rather than copying someone elses build.

 

Regardless, this is very much off topic in a thread about the removal of a core mechanic.

[knite.1542]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> The rest of the professions don't get such "patches" because someone couldn't 1v1 them...

 

Warrior defense traitline would like to know your location.

 

edit: I do agree that it was a ridiculous nerf though. Mirage was busted (from a roaming aspect at least) but that is definitely know what I would have done. Oh well though. There is plenty of other cheese out there.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"knite.1542" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > The rest of the professions don't get such "patches" because someone couldn't 1v1 them...

>

> Warrior defense traitline would like to know your location.

 

I was talking about Anet messing with core mechanics that are standardized over all professions, not trait line nerfs. Those happen all the time, sometimes justified, sometimes not, but warrior still has 2 dodges and all...

[knite.1542]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"knite.1542" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > The rest of the professions don't get such "patches" because someone couldn't 1v1 them...

> >

> > Warrior defense traitline would like to know your location.

>

> I was talking about Anet messing with core mechanics that are standardized over all professions, not trait line nerfs. Those happen all the time, sometimes justified, sometimes not, but warrior still has 2 dodges and all...

 

The warrior comment was mostly a joke. I edited but I guess you posted at the same time. Too your core mechanic point, I understand what you are saying and I don't know what to tell you sadly.

 

That being said, I would not say that the core mechanic is standardized across all professions. DD gets 3 and mirage cloak is vastly stronger than a normal dodge. Either way, it is what it is sadly. I doubt anet is ever going to revisit this.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"knite.1542" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > @"knite.1542" said:

> > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > The rest of the professions don't get such "patches" because someone couldn't 1v1 them...

> > >

> > > Warrior defense traitline would like to know your location.

> >

> > I was talking about Anet messing with core mechanics that are standardized over all professions, not trait line nerfs. Those happen all the time, sometimes justified, sometimes not, but warrior still has 2 dodges and all...

>

> The warrior comment was mostly a joke. I edited but I guess you posted at the same time. Too your core mechanic point, I understand what you are saying and I don't know what to tell you sadly.

>

> That being said, I would not say that the core mechanic is standardized across all professions. DD gets 3 and mirage cloak is vastly stronger than a normal dodge. Either way, it is what it is sadly. I doubt anet is ever going to revisit this.

 

True, Daredevil has 3. I wonder how no one got bothered by that permaevade with all their other skills and abilities.

And Mirage Cloak isn't that much better than a normal dodge, it still just evades, plus, you basically evade in place unless you're moving, it just opens up an ambush attack, the invulnerability frames are the same i think.

 

I guess my point was - 2 dodges should be minimum. If they want to give other classes like DD and who knows what other new elites will have, more dodges, cool, but since the entire game is based around 2 dodges, PvE and PvP parts of it (huge AOE spam and the like), having 1 dodge is crippling to the point of unusable in the content.

If the game had smaller AOE's, then all classes could get away with just one, but the AOE's were balanced around all professions having a minimum of 2 dodges to be able to get away from them.

 

This all just seems irresponsible from Anet, i mean, they designed the game, how the freak did they think Mirage could work with just one dodge when they themselves made all the other profession skills, specifically AOE sizes balanced around 2...

 

I wouldn't have cared if they nerfed some trait line or skills, but removing a dodge is just insulting to Mesmer players.

[knite.1542]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> And Mirage Cloak isn't that much better than a normal dodge, it still just evades, plus, you basically evade in place unless you're moving, it just opens up an ambush attack, the invulnerability frames are the same i think.

 

Do you really not think that mirage cloak is much better than a normal dodge? With mirage cloak you are invulnerable, can do it while not moving (so immobilize won't stop it), you can do it while CCed, it can be traited so your clones gain mirage cloak as well, and it doesn't interrupt your actions.

 

I do agree that what they did was probably not the best way to "balance" mirage, but the idea that MC is not that much better than a normal dodge is definitely not true.

[Tseison.4659]

> @"knite.1542" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > And Mirage Cloak isn't that much better than a normal dodge, it still just evades, plus, you basically evade in place unless you're moving, it just opens up an ambush attack, the invulnerability frames are the same i think.

>

> Do you really not think that mirage cloak is much better than a normal dodge? With mirage cloak you are invulnerable, can do it while not moving (so immobilize won't stop it), you can do it while CCed, it can be traited so your clones gain mirage cloak as well, and it doesn't interrupt your actions.

>

> I do agree that what they did was probably not the best way to "balance" mirage, but the idea that MC is not that much better than a normal dodge is definitely not true.

 

And thieves STILL get to keep their 2-3 dodges PLUS all their evade utilities and traits.... so again, I too don’t understand the sense behind the 1 dodge. Mirage Cloak is a great utility for survivability but no, they’d rather make all other classes have access to easy survivability than us and for what reason?

 

Just the usual favouritism and the only way to actually enjoy Mirage is in PVE it seems.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"knite.1542" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > And Mirage Cloak isn't that much better than a normal dodge, it still just evades, plus, you basically evade in place unless you're moving, it just opens up an ambush attack, the invulnerability frames are the same i think.

>

> Do you really not think that mirage cloak is much better than a normal dodge? With mirage cloak you are invulnerable, can do it while not moving (so immobilize won't stop it), you can do it while CCed, it can be traited so your clones gain mirage cloak as well, and it doesn't interrupt your actions.

>

> I do agree that what they did was probably not the best way to "balance" mirage, but the idea that MC is not that much better than a normal dodge is definitely not true.

 

Well they are the ones that made it like that, but the players are getting punished for using it. It's insulting.

It's like, i give you toys to play with, then get mad at you for playing with them and punish you for it. Doesn't make sense.

 

Maybe it is more powerful than a normal dodge, probably is, but Anet made the class, not the players, Anet made that mechanics, then punished players for using it.

And for what? Just because every other class whined about not knowing how to deal with Mesmers which is at this point a meme and should not be taken seriously. People have been whining about mesmers since the game was released, but it's not the mesmer player's fault.

Imagine having 1 dodge in a high level Fractal or a Raid. That's how bad 1 Mirage cloak feels in WvW because WvW AOE spam is comparable to that of Fractals or Raids, except, you're dealing with people that are not predictable like mobs, so it's 10 times worse taking that dodge away.

If they "balanced" the class some other way, like i said, meh, balance patches happen, i wouldn't have cared.

But you try using just one dodge. It feels wrong. It definitely wasn't the best way to balance anything.

 

> @"Tseison.4659" said:

> > @"knite.1542" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > And Mirage Cloak isn't that much better than a normal dodge, it still just evades, plus, you basically evade in place unless you're moving, it just opens up an ambush attack, the invulnerability frames are the same i think.

> >

> > Do you really not think that mirage cloak is much better than a normal dodge? With mirage cloak you are invulnerable, can do it while not moving (so immobilize won't stop it), you can do it while CCed, it can be traited so your clones gain mirage cloak as well, and it doesn't interrupt your actions.

> >

> > I do agree that what they did was probably not the best way to "balance" mirage, but the idea that MC is not that much better than a normal dodge is definitely not true.

>

> And thieves STILL get to keep their 2-3 dodges PLUS all their evade utilities and traits.... so again, I too don’t understand the sense behind the 1 dodge. Mirage Cloak is a great utility for survivability but no, they’d rather make all other classes have access to easy survivability than us and for what reason?

>

> Just the usual favouritism and the only way to actually enjoy Mirage is in PVE it seems.

 

Not to mention, Mirage damage is pitiful compared to literally any profession out there. Not only do we not have a dodge now, but get outdamaged by support builds.

I made a support chrono to use in guild fights when i raid WvW with my guild.

I can't solo a camp with that build. I could with Mirage, and it was great for roaming, but in general, THAT's how bad they nerfed mesmers.

Mesmers already have to deal with the abuse from the community asking for nerfs all the time, now the company that made us is abusing us as well.

What do Mesmers have to do to get some respect from the company that made them?

 

And Indeed, what about Thieves? 3 dodges, invisibility and all the innate dodge abilities they have on top of that.

If Mesmers want to have half of that, they need to always weigh the pros and cons, while other classes can have it all and still not be considered OP.

 

It just feels bad to play a class i like and constantly being punished for it while others get away with so much worse.

[Tseison.4659]

> > @"Tseison.4659" said:

> > > @"knite.1542" said:

> > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > And Mirage Cloak isn't that much better than a normal dodge, it still just evades, plus, you basically evade in place unless you're moving, it just opens up an ambush attack, the invulnerability frames are the same i think.

> > >

> > > Do you really not think that mirage cloak is much better than a normal dodge? With mirage cloak you are invulnerable, can do it while not moving (so immobilize won't stop it), you can do it while CCed, it can be traited so your clones gain mirage cloak as well, and it doesn't interrupt your actions.

> > >

> > > I do agree that what they did was probably not the best way to "balance" mirage, but the idea that MC is not that much better than a normal dodge is definitely not true.

> >

> > And thieves STILL get to keep their 2-3 dodges PLUS all their evade utilities and traits.... so again, I too don’t understand the sense behind the 1 dodge. Mirage Cloak is a great utility for survivability but no, they’d rather make all other classes have access to easy survivability than us and for what reason?

> >

> > Just the usual favouritism and the only way to actually enjoy Mirage is in PVE it seems.

>

> Not to mention, Mirage damage is pitiful compared to literally any profession out there. Not only do we not have a dodge now, but get outdamaged by support builds.

> I made a support chrono to use in guild fights when i raid WvW with my guild.

> I can't solo a camp with that build. I could with Mirage, and it was great for roaming, but in general, THAT's how bad they nerfed mesmers.

> Mesmers already have to deal with the abuse from the community asking for nerfs all the time, now the company that made us is abusing us as well.

> What do Mesmers have to do to get some respect from the company that made them?

>

> And Indeed, what about Thieves? 3 dodges, invisibility and all the innate dodge abilities they have on top of that.

> If Mesmers want to have half of that, they need to always weigh the pros and cons, while other classes can have it all and still not be considered OP.

>

> It just feels bad to play a class i like and constantly being punished for it while others get away with so much worse.

 

I totally understand where you're coming from and since I've been playing since launch, I ONLY made a Mesmer and have done so much with the profession and have theorycraft all kinds of builds, but there just isn't many optimal builds to utilize and I'm speaking In terms of WvW/PvP wise when comparing to other professions out there. So with that being said, I can't just "Start Over" and pick a different class and go through EVERYTHING. I don't have the patience for that like some people who have X amount of Chars...

 

Again, here's hoping the next expansion fixes some of the problems we're facing or at least gives us an E-Spec that makes up for all this kitten Anet's done to our class.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Tseison.4659" said:

> > > @"Tseison.4659" said:

> > > > @"knite.1542" said:

> > > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > > > And Mirage Cloak isn't that much better than a normal dodge, it still just evades, plus, you basically evade in place unless you're moving, it just opens up an ambush attack, the invulnerability frames are the same i think.

> > > >

> > > > Do you really not think that mirage cloak is much better than a normal dodge? With mirage cloak you are invulnerable, can do it while not moving (so immobilize won't stop it), you can do it while CCed, it can be traited so your clones gain mirage cloak as well, and it doesn't interrupt your actions.

> > > >

> > > > I do agree that what they did was probably not the best way to "balance" mirage, but the idea that MC is not that much better than a normal dodge is definitely not true.

> > >

> > > And thieves STILL get to keep their 2-3 dodges PLUS all their evade utilities and traits.... so again, I too don’t understand the sense behind the 1 dodge. Mirage Cloak is a great utility for survivability but no, they’d rather make all other classes have access to easy survivability than us and for what reason?

> > >

> > > Just the usual favouritism and the only way to actually enjoy Mirage is in PVE it seems.

> >

> > Not to mention, Mirage damage is pitiful compared to literally any profession out there. Not only do we not have a dodge now, but get outdamaged by support builds.

> > I made a support chrono to use in guild fights when i raid WvW with my guild.

> > I can't solo a camp with that build. I could with Mirage, and it was great for roaming, but in general, THAT's how bad they nerfed mesmers.

> > Mesmers already have to deal with the abuse from the community asking for nerfs all the time, now the company that made us is abusing us as well.

> > What do Mesmers have to do to get some respect from the company that made them?

> >

> > And Indeed, what about Thieves? 3 dodges, invisibility and all the innate dodge abilities they have on top of that.

> > If Mesmers want to have half of that, they need to always weigh the pros and cons, while other classes can have it all and still not be considered OP.

> >

> > It just feels bad to play a class i like and constantly being punished for it while others get away with so much worse.

>

> I totally understand where you're coming from and since I've been playing since launch, I ONLY made a Mesmer and have done so much with the profession and have theorycraft all kinds of builds, but there just isn't many optimal builds to utilize and I'm speaking In terms of WvW/PvP wise when comparing to other professions out there. So with that being said, I can't just "Start Over" and pick a different class and go through EVERYTHING. I don't have the patience for that like some people who have X amount of Chars...

>

> Again, here's hoping the next expansion fixes some of the problems we're facing or at least gives us an E-Spec that makes up for all this kitten Anet's done to our class.

 

Exactly! I completely understand. I also sunk so much time into my mesmer and now i'm gearing him up with legendary armor slowly, and i don't have time for other professions to do everything my mesmer unlocked and achieved. I have a warrior for Fractals, and ONLY for fractals, but if Anet didn't nerf mesmers so much, i would have taken my mesmer for fractals instead.

 

Hopefully one day they fix all the bad things they did to the profession. I refuse to main anything else, i love the playstyle and the profession, yet i'm punished for it constantly (and of course every other mesmer out there). And for what? Absolutely nothing except to please other professions.

It feels bad being basically bullied like that in a game that i love and want to relax in.