I'm back from a hiatus and...

[Veprovina.4876]

...ONE dodge for a Mirage in WvW?

 

Really?

 

Whose bright idea was that?

[LuRkEr.9462]

Yea, in pvp modes mesmer isn't in a very good place right now. Pretty much every class counters it if they have any idea what they are doing.

 

Still have those bad players that think mesmer is OP because they can't find the real player among the clones, but hey at least we have some people we can kill lol

[Veprovina.4876]

I mean, i can still kill people with my Mirage, and to be fair, it did feel weird as i was trying to mirage cloak to use Deception skills, like, my previous combos didn't work but i didn't even notice the change until i actually looked at the whole stamina bar depleting, but still.

 

Wtf???

 

Leave it ot ArenaNet to do "balance" because other people couldn't play their classes properly.

Yeah, mirage was illusive, yeah it was annoying to fight but that was the whole point.

Instead of nerfing it to the ground, how about other people change their strategies to idk... Run away from a mirage, maybe use large AOE effects to counter the dodges (since Mirage can't dodge "forward" like other classes can - it usually stays within the AOE after a cloak), always 2v1 a mirage, so many possibilities...

 

The rest of the professions don't get such "patches" because someone couldn't 1v1 them...

 

"Balance patches"....

 

Still, they did tons of stuff right with the general patches, the game is much more comfortable to play and i got rid of half my inventory of toys and "item currency" because that's now in the hero tab and wallet so that's good, less clutter.

 

But come on. The only profession that can't dodge twice. How is that fair?

Yeah we have mirrors, but those are not "instant" you have to get to them, and removing a dodge is just too much because you can't instantly react to anything more than once - and the whole game and its mechanics are based on the stamina use of 2 dodges!!!!!

 

What the hell!!!???

[Jables.4659]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> Run away from a mirage

>always 2v1 a mirage, so many possibilities...

 

A class existing with these as its counters is not healthy for the game. that being said, 2 dodge Power Mirage did have plenty of counter-play. Condition mirage's only real hard-counter was thief. As long as he didn't miss his steal it was almost impossible to lose to cmirage. It would've been nice if they could've brought cmirage in line without removing power mirage from the game.

 

 

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Jables.4659" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > Run away from a mirage

> >always 2v1 a mirage, so many possibilities...

>

> A class existing with these as its counters is not healthy for the game. that being said, 2 dodge Power Mirage did have plenty of counter-play. Condition mirage's only real hard-counter was thief. As long as he didn't miss his steal it was almost impossible to lose to cmirage. It would've been nice if they could've brought cmirage in line without removing power mirage from the game.

>

>

>

>

 

cmes was getting shit on by weaver too, but to be fair weaver was shitting on everything :D

[otto.5684]

> @"Jables.4659" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > Run away from a mirage

> >always 2v1 a mirage, so many possibilities...

>

> A class existing with these as its counters is not healthy for the game. that being said, 2 dodge Power Mirage did have plenty of counter-play. Condition mirage's only real hard-counter was thief. As long as he didn't miss his steal it was almost impossible to lose to cmirage. It would've been nice if they could've brought cmirage in line without removing power mirage from the game.

>

>

>

>

Condition mirage was out of the meta way before the Feb patch. It was rarely seen in platinum and almost never in AT. Now, even in platinum you don’t see it.

 

Current PvP devs do not have any idea. And what happens below 1,500 is meaningless.

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Jables.4659" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > Run away from a mirage

> >always 2v1 a mirage, so many possibilities...

>

> A class existing with these as its counters is not healthy for the game. that being said, 2 dodge Power Mirage did have plenty of counter-play. Condition mirage's only real hard-counter was thief. As long as he didn't miss his steal it was almost impossible to lose to cmirage. It would've been nice if they could've brought cmirage in line without removing power mirage from the game.

>

>

>

>

 

Well maybe, but i question the nerf by having it be the removal of the core gameplay element that we spent years taking for granted.

Think about it, the entire game is balanced around having enough stamina to dodge twice.

Larger AOEs especially are that large because everyone has 2 dodges to get out of them. That's how they were designed to begin with, and now all of a sudden Mirages can't do what everyone takes for granted.

 

And i mean, sure, Mesmers in general have other ways to get out of that situation like Blink, Phase Retreat, Jaunt...

 

But dodge on a Mirage works for using alternate skill 1 as well.

Now, not only can you not dodge like others can, but they removed entirely the point of the class (and no, mirrors aren't consistent or a good replacement, mirrors were like a backup dodge).

 

It would have been nice to have balanced the class without removing the core mechanic of the game that was engrained into players from the beginning.

Especially since you still have 2 dodges in PvE. It's a very jarring discrepancy.

The game is teaching you for 80 levels to work with 2 dodges.

And someone then wants to go to WvW and whoa...

 

And as you said. This apparently killed the power mirage as well.

So, all in all, not a good balance.

 

Besides... Mirages weren't unkillable, even in 1v1 if people knew what they were doing.

[Elvirais.5472]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

>

> It would have been nice to have balanced the class without removing the core mechanic of the game that was engrained into players from the beginning.

> Especially since you still have 2 dodges in PvE. It's a very jarring discrepancy.

> The game is teaching you for 80 levels to work with 2 dodges.

> And someone then wants to go to WvW and whoa...

 

Same goes for me. I came back after a long break, went to WvW with my mirage... ouch. I'm pretty sad about that.

 

 

[Yoci.2481]

Power Mirage can be made to work in WvW with Deceptive Evasion, Blurred Inscriptions and Desert Distortion. It has decent damage, AoE too thanks to the laz0r beamz, a bit of healing and condi cleanse and great mobility. But it is also rather one dimensional based around spamming invuls and picking up mirrors. Vallun has a build guide on Youtube. I enjoy playing it for a while and it's really good for roaming, but the fights feel a bit boring and not very interactive.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Elvirais.5472" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> >

> > It would have been nice to have balanced the class without removing the core mechanic of the game that was engrained into players from the beginning.

> > Especially since you still have 2 dodges in PvE. It's a very jarring discrepancy.

> > The game is teaching you for 80 levels to work with 2 dodges.

> > And someone then wants to go to WvW and whoa...

>

> Same goes for me. I came back after a long break, went to WvW with my mirage... ouch. I'm pretty sad about that.

>

>

 

It's a pretty crippling blow - one that should have never happened.

Most of the time in WvW now i feel like i need to play Rachmaninoff on the piano just to get by, while other clases use literally 1 skill for 10k damage and apply a whole cancer worth of conditions boons and condition clense at the same time. How is that fair? And yeah i'm exaggerating a bit but honestly - just a bit, it's literally like that.

 

I mean, i get by, but come on, stop nerfing Mesmers. If you don't know what to do with us, then balance other classes. They instead buff other classes while nerfing Mesmers and then do double damage to Mesmers in the process.

 

It's so frustrating to me that every time Mesmer is good at something Anet swoops in and says "no no no no", then just stomps on it while other classes laugh and go "yay, we complained enough again and Anet saved us, we don't have to learn our classes now woohoo!"...

 

> @"Yoci.2481" said:

> Power Mirage can be made to work in WvW with Deceptive Evasion, Blurred Inscriptions and Desert Distortion. It has decent damage, AoE too thanks to the laz0r beamz, a bit of healing and condi cleanse and great mobility. But it is also rather one dimensional based around spamming invuls and picking up mirrors. Vallun has a build guide on Youtube. I enjoy playing it for a while and it's really good for roaming, but the fights feel a bit boring and not very interactive.

 

I don't like power honestly, and both options should be equally viable, as well as support focused for all classes. But this kind of destroyed power builds didn't it? I don't see many of those around.

[Tseison.4659]

I use Mirage in PvE but in WvW I always run chrono because it's just that much better and I've gone toe to toe with both Pwr/Condi Mirages and they don't match up at all, which is not a surprise but at the same time, yes I am angry that they just continuously nerf Mesmers and yet other classes *cough* Thieves & stealth *cough* remain untouched. But anyways, the moment I tried the 1 dodge in WvW I quickly switched back, definitely isn't worth it and 99.9% cripples the classes survivability. That needs to be reverted and I hope it does when the new expansion hits.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Yoci.2481" said:

> Power Mirage can be made to work in WvW with Deceptive Evasion, Blurred Inscriptions and Desert Distortion. It has decent damage, AoE too thanks to the laz0r beamz, a bit of healing and condi cleanse and great mobility. But it is also rather one dimensional based around spamming invuls and picking up mirrors. Vallun has a build guide on Youtube. I enjoy playing it for a while and it's really good for roaming, but the fights feel a bit boring and not very interactive.

 

its good against bad players, as everything is, the moment you meet a good player it stands no chance. most power builds will simply outheal your damage.

inspiration mirage doesnt work, you simply lack damage to do anything, heck holo/ranger/rev will just run you down, the damage you deal to them will be laughable and the moment any of their hits connects you lose 50% hp+, I feel more survivable by running glass cannon due to the fact I can pressure people into submission.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Tseison.4659" said:

> I use Mirage in PvE but in WvW I always run chrono because it's just that much better and I've gone toe to toe with both Pwr/Condi Mirages and they don't match up at all, which is not a surprise but at the same time, yes I am angry that they just continuously nerf Mesmers and yet other classes *cough* Thieves & stealth *cough* remain untouched. But anyways, the moment I tried the 1 dodge in WvW I quickly switched back, definitely isn't worth it and 99.9% cripples the classes survivability. That needs to be reverted and I hope it does when the new expansion hits.

 

Honestly i'm thinking of going chrono but that'll cost me inscriptions to switch my whole armor set and weapons, and idk if it's worth it, especially since i'm saving up for legendary armor.

 

But i wish it was ONLY thieves, literally every class is better now just because they have 2 dodges wihich mirage can't do and you're at the mercy of AOE spells and in case of power builds, pressure. There's no efficient way to dodge and i just have to take it. Not only that but i have to use at least 2 utility slots for dodging skills like Blink instead of condi cleanse or something offensive - crippling our survivability and damage. Also where the hell did the mirrors go? Half of the skills that should leave a mirror, don't, does that not work too?

 

At this point Anet should just delete mesmers if they hate us so much.

Just make a story point that "the veil" broke and that's where mesmers got their powers from and the "energy" or something surged into each and every one of them, and then let us choose another class for that character and be done with it.

 

This is torture. Why is constant nerfing of mesmers still a thing?

 

And STILL i manage to do "ok" in WvW, but the fights last forever compared to what other classes can do, and it's not fair that memses need to be 10 times the skill of other players just to get by while everyone else can go "blblblbllb skill 7 go BOOM" and do fine.

 

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Yoci.2481" said:

> > Power Mirage can be made to work in WvW with Deceptive Evasion, Blurred Inscriptions and Desert Distortion. It has decent damage, AoE too thanks to the laz0r beamz, a bit of healing and condi cleanse and great mobility. But it is also rather one dimensional based around spamming invuls and picking up mirrors. Vallun has a build guide on Youtube. I enjoy playing it for a while and it's really good for roaming, but the fights feel a bit boring and not very interactive.

>

> its good against bad players, as everything is, the moment you meet a good player it stands no chance. most power builds will simply outheal your damage.

> inspiration mirage doesnt work, you simply lack damage to do anything, heck holo/ranger/rev will just run you down, the damage you deal to them will be laughable and the moment any of their hits connects you lose 50% hp+, I feel more survivable by running glass cannon due to the fact I can pressure people into submission.

 

Tried inspiration mirage. Horrible. Used to be viable but nope, anet has to destroy everything mesmer.

But to be fair, ANYTHING hits you you lose tons of HP, if i didn't have trailblazer's and dire gear i'd probably be one shot.

 

Balance, right?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Veprovina.4876" reminds me of time I played wvw, absolute glass cannon, landing 4 different skills cant kill soulbeast, meanwhile he rapid fires for 4,2k each arrow

[Tseison.4659]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"Tseison.4659" said:

> > I use Mirage in PvE but in WvW I always run chrono because it's just that much better and I've gone toe to toe with both Pwr/Condi Mirages and they don't match up at all, which is not a surprise but at the same time, yes I am angry that they just continuously nerf Mesmers and yet other classes *cough* Thieves & stealth *cough* remain untouched. But anyways, the moment I tried the 1 dodge in WvW I quickly switched back, definitely isn't worth it and 99.9% cripples the classes survivability. That needs to be reverted and I hope it does when the new expansion hits.

>

> Honestly i'm thinking of going chrono but that'll cost me inscriptions to switch my whole armor set and weapons, and idk if it's worth it, especially since i'm saving up for legendary armor.

>

> But i wish it was ONLY thieves, literally every class is better now just because they have 2 dodges wihich mirage can't do and you're at the mercy of AOE spells and in case of power builds, pressure. There's no efficient way to dodge and i just have to take it. Not only that but i have to use at least 2 utility slots for dodging skills like Blink instead of condi cleanse or something offensive - crippling our survivability and damage. Also where the hell did the mirrors go? Half of the skills that should leave a mirror, don't, does that not work too?

>

 

Hmmm that's odd; well I run Full Berserker Shatter Chrono and usually able to drop people with no problem. I'm speaking in terms of WvW. The utilities I bring are Blink since that's core nowa'days, then cleanse and Mirror Images. My elite changes depending on which area I'm in on the WvW map because invisibility is useless if you're in enemy territory and GW can feel a little clunky so I'll usually bring MOA but it really depends.

 

Do you have two armor sets? If you don't I wouldn't switch and just continue what you were doing now or avoid WvW. I just recently finished getting new "blank" ascended trinkets, weapons, armor, sigils and runes ready for the next expansion so once the new elite spec is announced, I can set my gear up based on what stats are viable.

 

I haven't encountered anyone use the mirrors while in WvW so I haven't seen that "issue/bug" before, definitely take a picture and send it in if it happens to you again.

 

But now with Mirage Mirrors, they need to be REMOVED and either they have to rework that because I personally don't want to run into anything that's so far away and i'm not wasting a blink for a short mirage cloak.

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Tseison.4659" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > @"Tseison.4659" said:

> > > I use Mirage in PvE but in WvW I always run chrono because it's just that much better and I've gone toe to toe with both Pwr/Condi Mirages and they don't match up at all, which is not a surprise but at the same time, yes I am angry that they just continuously nerf Mesmers and yet other classes *cough* Thieves & stealth *cough* remain untouched. But anyways, the moment I tried the 1 dodge in WvW I quickly switched back, definitely isn't worth it and 99.9% cripples the classes survivability. That needs to be reverted and I hope it does when the new expansion hits.

> >

> > Honestly i'm thinking of going chrono but that'll cost me inscriptions to switch my whole armor set and weapons, and idk if it's worth it, especially since i'm saving up for legendary armor.

> >

> > But i wish it was ONLY thieves, literally every class is better now just because they have 2 dodges wihich mirage can't do and you're at the mercy of AOE spells and in case of power builds, pressure. There's no efficient way to dodge and i just have to take it. Not only that but i have to use at least 2 utility slots for dodging skills like Blink instead of condi cleanse or something offensive - crippling our survivability and damage. Also where the hell did the mirrors go? Half of the skills that should leave a mirror, don't, does that not work too?

> >

>

> Hmmm that's odd; well I run Full Berserker Shatter Chrono and usually able to drop people with no problem. I'm speaking in terms of WvW. The utilities I bring are Blink since that's core nowa'days, then cleanse and Mirror Images. My elite changes depending on which area I'm in on the WvW map because invisibility is useless if you're in enemy territory and GW can feel a little clunky so I'll usually bring MOA but it really depends.

>

> Do you have two armor sets? If you don't I wouldn't switch and just continue what you were doing now or avoid WvW. I just recently finished getting new "blank" ascended trinkets, weapons, armor, sigils and runes ready for the next expansion so once the new elite spec is announced, I can set my gear up based on what stats are viable.

>

> I haven't encountered anyone use the mirrors while in WvW so I haven't seen that "issue/bug" before, definitely take a picture and send it in if it happens to you again.

>

> But now with Mirage Mirrors, they need to be REMOVED and either they have to rework that because I personally don't want to run into anything that's so far away and i'm not wasting a blink for a short mirage cloak.

>

 

I don't have 2 armor sets and i can't avoid WvW that's what i like to play lol, plus, i was recently invited into a WvW guild, and i want the legendary armor, so i'll just keep playing that. :tongue: I can maybe get exotic, but eh, Trailblazer is great for my build so i'm not going to change it now. My build isn't the problem anyway, it's that freaking dodge that anet crippled us with. But even with that, i manage and i do regularly drop people. Last time i was roaming i dropped a reaper while simultaniously fighting guards lol, so i must be doing at least something right. Some people get the best of me, some don't, it's all good, that's WvW.

 

I'm not sure how i can show what happens with mirrors or rather that they don't spawn with a picture... I'll do some testing, maybe i got something wrong, but i don't remember while using skills that any of them spawned a mirror. At least the deception ones that were supposed to spawn one.

Also, i couldn't find anything about that in game - as i enter combat i automatically spawn clones. Even when not using skills. Is that something anet did or am i just crazy? :astonished:

 

But i agree about the mirrors. It's not really viable to be running towards them just to "dodge" for a quarter of a second, you can't time that with what the other person is doing. We *could* just use the dedicated dodge button but NOOOO, that's apparently too much to ask.

See that's why i have a problem with that.

 

First of all, mirrors are not working properly as far as i can tell.

Then, if they did, you need to have a utility full of deception skills that actually spawn mirrors and most of those skills SUCK so hard.

And if the mirror spawns, you can't time it with the attacks like you would a dodge because you have to WALK to it. That's kinda doable in PvE and i liked this mechanic, but that has no place in WvW or PvP. Especially since someone can see you running towards a mirror and pull you. Then what? You just wasted your only dodge, you're not dealing damage, you just got pulled and have a full stamina bar worth to fill before you can dodge again...

 

Seriously WHO thought of that, i'm so pissed right now.

Usually i never complained about any balance patches, i just played, bu this is crossing a big glaring line and flipping us off while making eye contact.

 

Ugh...

 

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Veprovina.4876" reminds me of time I played wvw, absolute glass cannon, landing 4 different skills cant kill soulbeast, meanwhile he rapid fires for 4,2k each arrow

 

Well, like i said... Mesmers are too powerful so "balance" right? :angry:

[Yoci.2481]

Yes it is a sad situation and for a long time already. I dont know why the developers dont care. :(

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Yoci.2481" said:

> Yes it is a sad situation and for a long time already. I dont know why the developers dont care. :(

 

I don't know. The rest of the Mesmer nerfs were also kinda bad, but ok, i never complained, they did a thing, they tried to "balance" although it didn't require any balancing but whatever it's their game.

 

But this takes the cake... :astonished:

 

I mean, i'm still gonna play WvW, but FFS, can they please stop nerfing mesmer?

[necromaniac.7629]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> ...ONE dodge for a Mirage in WvW?

>

> Really?

>

> Whose bright idea was that?

 

yeah i don't mind in pvp but in wvw thats insane considering how easily and quickly you can get outnumbered trying to survive with one endurance bar

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > ...ONE dodge for a Mirage in WvW?

> >

> > Really?

> >

> > Whose bright idea was that?

>

> yeah i don't mind in pvp but in wvw thats insane considering how easily and quickly you can get outnumbered trying to survive with one endurance bar

 

Yeah, my main point was for WvW as well.

I don't PvP so i can't really comment how different it is there, but in WvW, exactly like you said. 1v1, sure, you can manage (by playing a piano while everyone else spams 1 skill but whatever).

Now what if you get ambushed while fighting objective guards by even 1 person?

You NEED the dodges.

 

They really messed up this time, royally.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > > @"Veprovina.4876" said:

> > > ...ONE dodge for a Mirage in WvW?

> > >

> > > Really?

> > >

> > > Whose bright idea was that?

> >

> > yeah i don't mind in pvp but in wvw thats insane considering how easily and quickly you can get outnumbered trying to survive with one endurance bar

>

> Yeah, my main point was for WvW as well.

> I don't PvP so i can't really comment how different it is there, but in WvW, exactly like you said. 1v1, sure, you can manage (by playing a piano while everyone else spams 1 skill but whatever).

> Now what if you get ambushed while fighting objective guards by even 1 person?

> You NEED the dodges.

>

> They really messed up this time, royally.

 

in pvp its hard to say since I 1trick mesmer, but whenever I see mirage, I see a free kill.

its by far, the easiest thing to kill for me, hands down.

[Loboling.5293]

I'd like to see other changes for mesmer than single dodge. It's a bad solution for the class. And while I did find condi mirage oppressive once upon a time. I think if they adjusted down (not sure if even required anymore) some of the mirage clone burst when they dodge, I'd give them back the second bar of stamina.

 

Mesmer is the only class I've never really invested into, but I can feel for players having to adjust between pvp and pve with something as jarring as losing a dodge. Remove damage, remove duration of conditions, but don't change the mechanics of the class or how it feels to play it.

 

Thanks.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Loboling.5293" said:

> I'd like to see other changes for mesmer than single dodge. It's a bad solution for the class. And while I did find condi mirage oppressive once upon a time. I think if they adjusted down (not sure if even required anymore) some of the mirage clone burst when they dodge, I'd give them back the second bar of stamina.

>

> Mesmer is the only class I've never really invested into, but I can feel for players having to adjust between pvp and pve with something as jarring as losing a dodge. Remove damage, remove duration of conditions, but don't change the mechanics of the class or how it feels to play it.

>

> Thanks.

 

This is very true, yes.

I mean, something has to be wrong when people who don't play Mirage see how messed up this is! :tongue:

 

I never had any problems Anet balancing Mesmers in general, some of the crap we were able to to *was* ridiculous, so it needed balancing, that's fine.

But removing a dodoge? Come on.

 

I'm currently switching to Chrono because Mirage with 1 dodge in blob vs blob situations in WvW is just stupidly crippling. I need to have a dedicated slot for Blink AND Jaunt, which means i don't have as many utility that would benefit my team which means i'm about as useless as it gets.

 

Roaming solo or with a small party still works kinda, that's ok most of the time albeit wonky as it can be because that 1 dodge is still as jarring as ever.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Again i probably posted this same comment thousands of times, condi mirage is ineffective if you decide to just ignore it and run away. They have no chase or engage potential for them to pin you down. Any class running trailblazers condi will be more destructive then a condi mirage to name a few, necro, thieves, and revs. looking at the recent patch notes it would seem the devs no longer have the interest to balance their game which is funny because they had promised more frequent ones. Other games have been doing constant updates yet this game is not is a clear indication on the status of the game.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Salt Mode.3780" said:

> Again i probably posted this same comment thousands of times, condi mirage is ineffective if you decide to just ignore it and run away. They have no chase or engage potential for them to pin you down. Any class running trailblazers condi will be more destructive then a condi mirage to name a few, necro, thieves, and revs. looking at the recent patch notes it would seem the devs no longer have the interest to balance their game which is funny because they had promised more frequent ones. Other games have been doing constant updates yet this game is not is a clear indication on the status of the game.

 

Well, all mesmers have Blink, Illusionary leap (sword 3), Diversion, Magic Bullet and Into the Void, but in addition to that Mirage has Axes of Symmetry, Mirage Advance and Jaunt on top of that. If a Mirage wants to chase you, they will and it's hard to get away. That part of your statement is not quite right...

 

But it's true that all other classes with Trailblazer's are infinitely more effective in both offense and defense. Mesmers are so horribly nerfed right now that it's really sad what Anet has done to us. But that wasn't enough, robbing Mirage of 1 dodge was "the right thing to do". I see this in Fractals as my Warrior Alt. The damage is insane, and so is the survivability with even Berserker's. Meanwhile "mesmer dps" is laughable even with the best builds. Wasn't the philosophy of the game, "no holy trinity", every class can perform anything with the right build? What happened to that?

 

I was gone for a long time from the game so i can't comment on the updates, i didn't read all of them throughout the years.