We never learn... blobs are not good for WvW... (ref DAOC.. just take it) Worst and Worst :'(

[Cuks.8241]

Nerf downstate. It just gets stronger, the larger the group is. I would propose that the speed of ress is irrelevant of how many players ress the downed and limit the number of times you can get downed to once per respawn. If this is applied a full dead ress in combat could be considered but only if it is super slow.

Reduce the aoe projectile hate (area for example). It is just too easy to be completely safe from projectiles in a blob. If you are out of position you should be prone to be sniped by roaming projectile heavy classes like ranger and thief.

Maybe add some skills that are effective against clumped opponents. Something that requires the group to disperse to make the attack less effective. There are plenty of examples in moba games. An attack that chains between enemies and gets stronger with every jump.

I propose next one already a few times but it got a lot of hate. Remove offensive AOE stacking. An area can only have one type of AOE skill active. If ele casts meteor shower on an area and a second ele casts a second shower on the same area only one is active to the enemy players. This would decrease the aoe spam in general, it would require blob to be more coordinated and also promote profession diversity. MIght also help with lag issues.

[Threather.9354]

You just need to give small groups some impact and ways to have fun even when there are no enemy. And for small groups to have fun, they need enemy small groups quite often. So its a snowball effect of making scouting, defending and upgrading too easy while removing trebbing, high ground ganking and dolyak sniping from the game. Less fun for you, and less fun for enemy, leading to both logging in less.

 

Basically the game is dumbed down and designed so that people log in to run in 60 man blob a few times a week. No scouting, no ganking, no dueling, no sniping objectives, no draining supplies, no trebbing, no dolyak sniping, no dedicated upgrading, no bursting, no outnumbered defending. Just blobbing. Can you spot which changes removed all the things above?

[Der.2315]

If you want to fight 1v1 or 2v2 or whatever, and then cap stuff, I have the perfect Gamemode for you: PvP. Content every minute of the day

[zorokai.1486]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> "The biggest blow was the limit to 5 people for the damage."

>

> Nah, it's a good choice for several reasons that have been discussed for years.

 

you say that but warrior GS only hits 3 people.............

 

er balance please?

[Swagger.1459]

> @"zorokai.1486" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > "The biggest blow was the limit to 5 people for the damage."

> >

> > Nah, it's a good choice for several reasons that have been discussed for years.

>

> you say that but warrior GS only hits 3 people.............

>

> er balance please?

 

Then make a post asking the devs to increase targets on the skill you feel should be 5 target.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

> @"diggance.3956" said:

> If you want to fight 1v1 or 2v2 or whatever, and then cap stuff, I have the perfect Gamemode for you: PvP. Content every minute of the day

 

i don't know what these guys are expecting from WvW and most of them claim to have been playing this mode for a long time already. i play different roles in WvW (ranger, weaver, firebrand, mesmer) and I use them according to what I feel like is the most useful for my group. I switch professions a lot of times in WvW, adjusting to the need of the group. I find it boring when you play the same role over and over.

[Spartacus.3192]

I believe if you want to discourage blobs and more small fights all over the map one method i thought of was to have a debuff based on the size of your squad and how many squad members are near you (say within 2400 range).

 

Squads get a Debuff of -10% to damage (power and condi) and healing for every 10 people in the group (starting at 11) (10 or less is no debuff). So at 50 man squad you are getting a 50% debuff on damage and healing output. This will favor the smaller groups trying to fight the bigger groups since they will be at full power and the 50 man squad at -50%. Sure they will still die if focused but have a better chance. And if youre 50 vs 50 it will just be wet noodle fighting.

 

The reason why i give the 2400 range is because if you happen to be in a 50 man squad and die and have to run back alone you dont want to be picked off by a solo roamer because you have a 50% debuff on you. You will be more than 2400 range from your squad so you dont get the debuff. The debuff is based on number of squad members within the 2400 range. So you could be in a 50 man squad but if only 10 near you you will only be a 10% debuff.

 

Now you will say ok just have 5 squads of 10 and all be in discord voice. Sure you can do that but its not as convenient for the commander so i still believe it will be better than what we have now.

It will not affect pugs running around just grouping up but will help reduce blobs. Maybe you will have multiple 10 man squads instead or 20 max.

 

anyway just spitballing here.

[Nitrosiili.5628]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> I believe if you want to discourage blobs and more small fights all over the map one method i thought of was to have a debuff based on the size of your squad and how many squad members are near you (say within 2400 range).

>

> Squads get a Debuff of -10% to damage (power and condi) and healing for every 10 people in the group (starting at 11) (10 or less is no debuff). So at 50 man squad you are getting a 50% debuff on damage and healing output. This will favor the smaller groups trying to fight the bigger groups since they will be at full power and the 50 man squad at -50%. Sure they will still die if focused but have a better chance. And if youre 50 vs 50 it will just be wet noodle fighting.

>

> The reason why i give the 2400 range is because if you happen to be in a 50 man squad and die and have to run back alone you dont want to be picked off by a solo roamer because you have a 50% debuff on you. You will be more than 2400 range from your squad so you dont get the debuff. The debuff is based on number of squad members within the 2400 range. So you could be in a 50 man squad but if only 10 near you you will only be a 10% debuff.

>

> Now you will say ok just have 5 squads of 10 and all be in discord voice. Sure you can do that but its not as convenient for the commander so i still believe it will be better than what we have now.

> It will not affect pugs running around just grouping up but will help reduce blobs. Maybe you will have multiple 10 man squads instead or 20 max.

>

> anyway just spitballing here.

 

I think you haven't played before the squad fuction was even in this game.

 

Anyway WvW was made for larger scale fights. Thats what brought me into WvW epic large scale PvP. Not sitting behind 20 arrow carts.

If people want constant small scale fights, then we have sPvP for that.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"Nitrosiili.5628" said:

>

> I think you haven't played before the squad fuction was even in this game.

>

> Anyway WvW was made for larger scale fights. Thats what brought me into WvW epic large scale PvP. Not sitting behind 20 arrow carts.

> If people want constant small scale fights, then we have sPvP for that.

 

what does arrow carts have anything to do with what i said? I personally do not care what ANET does because we know they have the poor dev skills as it is. I'm just responding to the thread,

 

Also you must not have played pvp if you are recommending a wvw player who doesnt care for blob fights to go to pvp.

 

FYI there is world of gameplay that sits in between a 5 person capture point mode and 50 man blob fights.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"Nitrosiili.5628" said:

> >

> > I think you haven't played before the squad fuction was even in this game.

> >

> > Anyway WvW was made for larger scale fights. Thats what brought me into WvW epic large scale PvP. Not sitting behind 20 arrow carts.

> > If people want constant small scale fights, then we have sPvP for that.

>

> what does arrow carts have anything to do with what i said? I personally do not care what ANET does because we know they have the poor dev skills as it is. I'm just responding to the thread,

>

> Also you must not have played pvp if you are recommending a wvw player who doesnt care for blob fights to go to pvp.

>

> FYI there is world of gameplay that sits in between a 5 person capture point mode and 50 man blob fights.

 

I think what he is saying is that if you want small group fights, you should play PvP instead.

I used to play PvP a lot, for about more than a year with no playing any other game mode, this was before Spirit Ranger was nerfed and no bots recorded yet and then I started playing in WvW and liked it, and I even have a commander tag now, commanding blobs every now and then. WvW requires a different playstyle and it offers a different kind of fun. If I didn't like big zerg fight, I would just leave this game mode and return to PVP, but I did and I still am enjoying it. WvW is for big zerg fighting and if you would ask me if there's anything that can be done to make it more fun, is to make blob fights even bigger.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

>

> I think what he is saying is that if you want small group fights, you should play PvP instead.

> I used to play PvP a lot, for about more than a year with no playing any other game mode, this was before Spirit Ranger was nerfed and no bots recorded yet and then I started playing in WvW and liked it, and I even have a commander tag now, commanding blobs every now and then. WvW requires a different playstyle and it offers a different kind of fun. If I didn't like big zerg fight, I would just leave this game mode and return to PVP, but I did and I still am enjoying it. WvW is for big zerg fighting and if you would ask me if there's anything that can be done to make it more fun, is to make blob fights even bigger.

 

I know what he is saying . What i am saying is anyone who thinks small group wvw fighting is the same as pvp probably hasnt done either. Its COMPLETELY different.

Small group wvw with custom stats/builds only available in wvw where you can use mobility, terrain better LOS, vs 5 man capture point with dumbed down template system.

 

I came to wvw from pvp because i HATE the stupid amulet system and capture point game mode. In wvw i get to test a more varied gear setup in a big map that doesnt force me to stand on point.

 

I will repeat. There is whole world of game play that fits in between the pvp system and 50 man blob fights.

 

Makes me sad when i hear people that can only think in extremes. ie: WVW is 50 man blob, PVP is small group.

 

[ledernierrempart.6871]

funny to see that nothing has changed.

i often come back on the forum after several months just to see how the game is doing but i stumble across the same threads.

 

gw2 is like an old house, completely revisited and made anew. but cracks started to apear here and there.

instead of fixing the cracks they put paint over it with fancy colors. but the paint started to wither over time. so they builded a nice garden around it with pets and stuff.

but each time you play in the garden and look behind, you realise that nothing has really changed.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> >

> > I think what he is saying is that if you want small group fights, you should play PvP instead.

> > I used to play PvP a lot, for about more than a year with no playing any other game mode, this was before Spirit Ranger was nerfed and no bots recorded yet and then I started playing in WvW and liked it, and I even have a commander tag now, commanding blobs every now and then. WvW requires a different playstyle and it offers a different kind of fun. If I didn't like big zerg fight, I would just leave this game mode and return to PVP, but I did and I still am enjoying it. WvW is for big zerg fighting and if you would ask me if there's anything that can be done to make it more fun, is to make blob fights even bigger.

>

> I know what he is saying . What i am saying is anyone who thinks small group wvw fighting is the same as pvp probably hasnt done either. Its COMPLETELY different.

> Small group wvw with custom stats/builds only available in wvw where you can use mobility, terrain better LOS, vs 5 man capture point with dumbed down template system.

>

> I came to wvw from pvp because i HATE the stupid amulet system and capture point game mode. In wvw i get to test a more varied gear setup in a big map that doesnt force me to stand on point.

>

> I will repeat. There is whole world of game play that fits in between the pvp system and 50 man blob fights.

>

> Makes me sad when i hear people that can only think in extremes. ie: WVW is 50 man blob, PVP is small group.

>

 

i dont know what exactly you are suggesting. Do you want anet to nerf blog fighting in favor to your preferred small group fights? Small group fights only cater to a really small number of players in WvW. It makes me sad that there are people who think they can demand something that opposes to what the majority prefer.

[Spartacus.3192]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

>

> i dont know what exactly you are suggesting. Do you want anet to nerf blog fighting in favor to your preferred small group fights? Small group fights only cater to a really small number of players in WvW. It makes me sad that there are people who think they can demand something that opposes to what the majority prefer.

 

I merely mentioned a method that could be used to discourage blob fight in response to the original post. Nowhere did i "DEMAND" it. But hey reading is hard i guess.

 

SMH that's why i kinda stopped posting on this forum on a regular basis. I'm done with this thread.

 

 

 

[PrinceValentine.9320]

> @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> >

> > i dont know what exactly you are suggesting. Do you want anet to nerf blog fighting in favor to your preferred small group fights? Small group fights only cater to a really small number of players in WvW. It makes me sad that there are people who think they can demand something that opposes to what the majority prefer.

>

> I merely mentioned a method that could be used to discourage blob fight in response to the original post. Nowhere did i "DEMAND" it. But hey reading is hard i guess.

>

> SMH that's why i kinda stopped posting on this forum on a regular basis. I'm done with this thread.

>

>

>

 

So you want anet to discourage blob fighting? Because you don't like it? Well, I like it and so do many others. As what other people already said here, WvW was created for bigger fights that PvP does not offer. If you want to roam the map with your friends, noone is stopping you but you can't ask for the dev's to "discourage" what a larger group of people want. You are sounding like a GW2 version of Karen. Seriously, be more rational.

[BeepBoopBap.2840]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > >

> > > i dont know what exactly you are suggesting. Do you want anet to nerf blog fighting in favor to your preferred small group fights? Small group fights only cater to a really small number of players in WvW. It makes me sad that there are people who think they can demand something that opposes to what the majority prefer.

> >

> > I merely mentioned a method that could be used to discourage blob fight in response to the original post. Nowhere did i "DEMAND" it. But hey reading is hard i guess.

> >

> > SMH that's why i kinda stopped posting on this forum on a regular basis. I'm done with this thread.

> >

> >

> >

>

> So you want anet to discourage blob fighting? Because you don't like it? Well, I like it and so do many others. As what other people already said here, WvW was created for bigger fights that PvP does not offer. If you want to roam the map with your friends, noone is stopping you but you can't ask for the dev's to "discourage" what a larger group of people want. You are sounding like a GW2 version of Karen. Seriously, be more rational.

 

"what a larger group of people want"

 

Can we bring up all the people that have quit the game because of lack of balance around anything but a full squad then?

 

It's really ironic that you're acting all 'rational' and high and mighty because your way of playing WvW is the 'right' and 'intended' way, when blobbing in 10FPS fights is what brings the servers to their knees for entire maps. Whatever though, have fun playing your slideshow 'epic battle'. I suggest Microsoft PowerPoint next time you want to play a similar game.

[PrinceValentine.9320]

>

> "what a larger group of people want"

>

> Can we bring up all the people that have quit the game because of lack of balance around anything but a full squad then?

>

> It's really ironic that you're acting all 'rational' and high and mighty because your way of playing WvW is the 'right' and 'intended' way, when blobbing in 10FPS fights is what brings the servers to their knees for entire maps. Whatever though, have fun playing your slideshow 'epic battle'. I suggest Microsoft PowerPoint next time you want to play a similar game.

 

Quit? Lol. So you want to quit too? Noone is stopping you. Make sure the door doesn't hit you on your way out.

 

[BeepBoopBap.2840]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> >

> > "what a larger group of people want"

> >

> > Can we bring up all the people that have quit the game because of lack of balance around anything but a full squad then?

> >

> > It's really ironic that you're acting all 'rational' and high and mighty because your way of playing WvW is the 'right' and 'intended' way, when blobbing in 10FPS fights is what brings the servers to their knees for entire maps. Whatever though, have fun playing your slideshow 'epic battle'. I suggest Microsoft PowerPoint next time you want to play a similar game.

>

> Quit? Lol. So you want to quit too? Noone is stopping you. Make sure the door doesn't hit you on your way out.

>

 

Ah ignoring everything I said and writing up some dumbass bullshit. Is this the forum version of running from a fight to catch up and hide in your blob?

[Cuks.8241]

There is a middle ground between gw2 style blobs and no blobs. WvW is meant to be large scale war and that is great and why we play it. But I wouldn't mind if there were better strategies than stack as many people as possible at one spot (maybe exaggeration but not by much).

I have played mmos that did it better in a way that you had frontlines with heavy plates, backlines with nukers and healers and havoc groups that tried to circumvent frontline to harras backline. And coordination between groups was crucial. One thing that made this possible was player collision. The downside is that the game is much less accessible to an average player and voice comm with several commanders is mandatory. Basically, you are either a hardcore player and part of an organised guild or you are not there at all.

I'm not saying this would be better for gw2 but what I noticed from the day I started playing this game is that stacking is too important and powerful in WvW and even more in PVE. Boonshare and aoe cleanse and heal are just too powerful.

[Mrgreen.8623]

Hum,

Can you please stop bringing the "Go PvP if you want 2v2"? People are so quick to rage/troll when they are not face to face... Just, be serious one sec and try to understand.

 

WvW wise they are not so much games right now... and, sorry, DAOC is still one of the best example for that.

Blob is OKAY, yes it's WvW it's for MASS fight.

 

BUT. Killing a blob was possible (daoc). And yes it is possible in GW2. But ... please... let's be honest and serious. It is really not the same.........

I don't ask for Control that lasts 1 minute... or anything like DAOC. Because we are playing GW2 !

 

There is so much possibility to help the little ones (not the group of 2/5 people, stop bringing that!!! but the 10/15/20 people !)

 

So: OK we can't touch more than 5 targets.... (.......... ok... maybe just 10 the server can do it maybe... but forget about that)

 

Just one example: If the BUFF you can do are for 10 people and not 5... just with that you help a lot the little squads...

We already have CAPS for the time/stacks of the buffs so the big blob will not be so interested in that... Just that is amazing for little squads... But NO.... we are doing the opposite and nobody sees the importance.

 

We don't need complicated things to "nerf" the blob... We don't even need to nerf it. But stop reducing every time the impact of the "little squads"...

Teamplay and strategy must be the most important factor in a WvW.... Not Only the number. Stop reducing the possibilities!

 

 

Let's just wake up, the game is older and older. We are less and less.... Why focusing on the BIG BLOB?

And again I DON'T SAY STOP THE BLOB. It's natural in WvW.... But that is not the only thing that should exist....... And it is useless to create stuff to occupy the little squads... It's is not a good answer neither... They need to coexist.

 

 

[Mrgreen.8623]

> @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > @"Spartacus.3192" said:

> > > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said:

> > >

> > > i dont know what exactly you are suggesting. Do you want anet to nerf blog fighting in favor to your preferred small group fights? Small group fights only cater to a really small number of players in WvW. It makes me sad that there are people who think they can demand something that opposes to what the majority prefer.

> >

> > I merely mentioned a method that could be used to discourage blob fight in response to the original post. Nowhere did i "DEMAND" it. But hey reading is hard i guess.

> >

> > SMH that's why i kinda stopped posting on this forum on a regular basis. I'm done with this thread.

> >

> >

> >

>

> So you want anet to discourage blob fighting? Because you don't like it? Well, I like it and so do many others. As what other people already said here, WvW was created for bigger fights that PvP does not offer. If you want to roam the map with your friends, noone is stopping you but you can't ask for the dev's to "discourage" what a larger group of people want. You are sounding like a GW2 version of Karen. Seriously, be more rational.

 

You just have no idea of what you want lol. You don't know what you are missing. Ignorants are blessed...

There is sooooo much passion, so much action, soooo amazing memories (still after decades!) when you can have more control in a big fight, when you can be YOU but in Squad of 20/30 even 40/50 ! You are part of one body but you are spread and you move together but not together... when you can see the movement of the groups and the strategy...

 

I LOVE GW2, never stop playing it since the beta. And of course, there are strategies and fantastic fights... but It could be so much better.

 

I can compare... GW2 is still too.... basic... The WvW is really not so deep... And it's sad for me. I still enjoy it but... there is so much better fight than just STICKING and follow like one man. It's still nice to see that, and yes... you need "skill" to do it right but... pfff... you don't have any idea how easy it is when you can compare.... And so, it's not so epic. Not so memorable. You have to try another style of WvW to understand.... GW2 can still make some amazing and epic Blob fight but... again you don't know what you are missing.

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

> @"Cuks.8241" said:

> There is a middle ground between gw2 style blobs and no blobs. WvW is meant to be large scale war and that is great and why we play it. But I wouldn't mind if there were better strategies than stack as many people as possible at one spot (maybe exaggeration but not by much).

> I have played mmos that did it better in a way that you had frontlines with heavy plates, backlines with nukers and healers and havoc groups that tried to circumvent frontline to harras backline. And coordination between groups was crucial.

 

I understand that there is a bunch of noise in this topic, so I guess I'll repeat myself from page one:

 

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between what **can** be done and what **is** done. GW2 as a game can do all the things that you mention. Many of those things used to be done. Balance or other changes can to a small degree explain why they're not done to the same extent anymore. However, to a much larger extent it is still very possible and it is other things that have reshaped behaviour more.

 

If you look at the stuff you mentioned you should be able to connect the dots between what would constitute a middle ground (scale, content), what would constitute a division into subgroups of different roles (heavy, backline, nuke, harrassment, etc.). All of this can still be done. All of this is still done. However all of that requires a higher level of organisation and groups with that ambition (either at their own scale, or the ambition to build complexity into a larger community) are either gone, very rare or are just going through the motions now.

 

The big thing here is that the developer has just set the bar that insanely low. They don't care so the players don't care. Many of the groups that would fill out a diversity in scale (5-10-15-20-25-30 etc.) and variety of content (roaming, havoc, focus, defense, forward-op, etc.), they have all left. Many of those groups are the most sensitive to the developer showing no interest, giving no attention or failing to address issues they are more impacted by (eg., when people first got tired of complaining about nightcapping and the broken scoring, many guilds who primarily tended to structures just packed up and left).

 

**So, to sum that up**, many of the things that you mention can be done and are still done but they are done by very few groups to very small degrees because they require more from the players to achieve. The groups that can and do are becomming more and more rare. Soon they will be almost mythical, doing things most people would genuinely think impossible. However, it is much less about balance or possibility and much more about lack of caring and trying.

 

_Ed. I dug up an example for you_

 

Here is a focus party from the late vanilla 25-meta (that had both havoc- and backline specific parties):

A pretty cookie-cutter comp at the time would be:

3x Melee parties: Double Guard, Necro for rips and two Warrior builds, one for CC and one for damage.

1x Range party: Five Eles usually

1x Focus party: Mesmers and Thieves

Engineers and Rangers were usually not played (even if they are played by both sides in the video) and Revenants did not exist.

 

I could easily find you more examples but it is getting late here. Suffice to say, there is much more that you can do in WvW than what usually is being done. There are many things that are still better than just stacking in one place (it is just rare to pull that level of organisation off at 50-man scale and it is rare to see good zerg-busting groups or good focus groups around pickups). They are just too difficult for the typical player to do or too ambitous for the typical pickup commander to lead without help or some scaffolding. This seeps through everything in the game mode from how server communities are built and communicate, to what guilds do to how people look upon classes and builds.

[Vindikare.3678]

> @"Mrgreen.8623" said:

> In daoc... I have been in blobs that were decimated by 8 people... it was crazy to watch.... we were too pack and BAM, stun pbae.. and we are dead.. When you face the perfect coordination... I amazing.

> But you learn! And you avoid that the next time... or not... and another funny thing: blobs act differently when this kind of stuff can happen! And even funnier there are fewer blobs because it's not the solution anymore... and you can see more fights, real group fights...

>

> Sorry, I stop here, it was a bad idea. Just too sad to keep it on me...

 

I played daoc 16 years, i was an 8v8 hardcore player, i played with some of the top guilds/players on the servers over NA/EU so i can totally understand your point.

 

The problem with your statement is, in my opinion, the lenght and duration of CC spells between GW2 and Daoc.

What really wins against zerg on DAoC are coordination during damage/long duration CC (between 30sec/1min) and overextension of the zerg. And the thing i miss the most, Realm Abilities (I had the goal to reach a high Real Rank to be able to perform better against any kind of threat but this completly sucks on GW2, there is no character development from a wvw/pvp point of view, just stupid skills).

 

The gameplay of GW2 is totally different from daoc so it’s very hard to implement what you are asking…

 

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Mrgreen.8623" said:

> GW2 can still make some amazing and epic Blob fight but... again you don't know what you are missing.

The toxic enviroment of a few "elites" dominating the masses because they consider their need to have what they define as fun more important than the need of the masses?

 

The way group combat is designed is the main reason why GW2 is one of the best casual MMOs that exist and the reason so many still play it. I dont have to be a 360-no-scope level of hardcore gamer to fight such similar enemies, I just have to bring a friend. And if that doesnt work, I bring 2 friends. That usually does the trick.

 

So I feel fine not knowing tbh.

[Aeolus.3615]

The issue ic, is the map layouts and the extremelly poor mechanics of the WvW gameplay itself, its just about ktrain and ppt, it invites players to monoblob as much as they can, queue monoblobs can take t3 stuff in less than 4-5minutes due the gap between players in the timezones, just aatack where theres no one...

 

 

@"Dawdler.8521" its casual and it doesnt evolve much from casual, wich imo it when it starts lacking, it was just made for casuals, wvw could have more deep mechanics.