UmbraNoctis.1907 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. This! Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > No, what got us to where we are now is them constantly nerfing instead of buffing. We had slight power creep (though, fun fact: Not nearly as much as people would think. Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year). Now we have *severe* power dip. Its like powercreep, except the other way around, and *way* worse. Were already over 20% lower in damage than at any point in the game prior. And its hurting the game. Oh God don't bring back my nightmares about d/d cele ele pre HoT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > This! > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Shao.7236" said: > Metabattle and relative sites are a bad influence, there is a lot of builds to have and in a viable state. > > They simply don't care to show anything but meta because all they care about is the meta. It's in their terms, you'll never find many builds on their site that would indicate "build diversity" to keep their site "clean". > > The diversity is something you can see by doing it yourself and watching players that care to see how more things can be achieved, it's been way more noticeable since the Feb patch that a lot of stuff began to be playable but also fun. Build diversity doesn't mean "swap around some utilities and weapons", it means high performing builds against everything else that is not a bronze/hotjoin hero or **badly programmed bot** . Yes people can run full glyph or full conjure ele and can call it..."build diversity"... Please show me this build diversity of yours? Can I please see a video of you playing a core ele? core engi?core mesmer? or any other class not currently streamed across the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. The OP is way right...and you are way wrong Is this the "healthy" game you're referring to? 4 Professions out of 9 being played in PvP? People really think that GW2 will last as long as WoW....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > Old CEle, if you just stood still, would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. Good luck standing still for 10 seconds with a Holo or Renegade about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmbraNoctis.1907 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > This! > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmbraNoctis.1907 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > The OP is way right...and you are way wrong > > > Is this the "healthy" game you're referring to? 4 Professions out of 9 being played in PvP? > The video shows more than 4 classes being played ... Also displaying bad diversity/balance pre nerf does not mean more powercreep is the way to go. The two biggest power spikes in this game have been pre HoT spec update - which resulted in cele d/d ele dominating like nothing else has ever done (teams were stacking 4-5 of them ... and winning) - and HoT release, when teams would run double chrono and double rev and the 5th spot was probably only filled by another class because of their newly implemented "no more than 2 of each class per team" rule. Most diversity in competitive play you have seen afterwards was forced by the no-class-stacking-rule, something that wasn't deemed necessary in the past, and not the result of balance. Are balance and diversity great right now? No. But there has been times where it was much worse, so the direction they are heading is probably not completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > This! > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. Wierd though as half or more of the population has left since the de-powercreep phase :) I'm glad players with ur mind set are here to help anet with their ever growing pvp scene, ur guys nerf everything mentality had done wonders for this games pvp scene. Hopefully u they carry on further and u and like minded players can continue enjoying the pvp scene while it continues to steadily bleed players. Soon ull all be well acquainted as the small handful of players left in a yr or so will have the opportunity to get real close lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmbraNoctis.1907 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > > > This! > > > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. > > Wierd though as half or more of the population has left since the de-powercreep phase :) I'm glad players with ur mind set are here to help anet with their ever growing pvp scene, ur guys nerf everything mentality had done wonders for this games pvp scene. Hopefully u they carry on further and u and like minded players can continue enjoying the pvp scene while it continues to steadily bleed players. Soon ull all be well acquainted as the small handful of players left in a yr or so will have the opportunity to get real close lol Questionable. There have been huge drops of player numbers in the past - to a large part related to the powercreep, resulting bad balance as well as the discontinuation of competitive events - and i doubt the remaining population would have survived another mass-exodus of similar extent. And yet there are still players playing somehow ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Gw2 community idea of a balanced game is all classes being dumbed down and nerfed to the point that sure ur class is garbage and unfun to play now but so is the rest of the roster.... balanced This games community is actively helping anet tank its population and it's too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > This! > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. And you could mix and match the traits more easily. A lot of traits were actually *stronger* too. Oh and while stats were lower, they were lower *across the board*. Offensive *and* defensive. We'd compare them with the same gear. And no, the stronger skills more than make up for it. Just take a look at [this]( ). Notice how, even though all stats were lower (including health), the Theif hits a lot *harder* than right now? And that wasnt even an optimal build (Sadly I had to work with what Ive got since there are barely any videos from around that time that arent WvW). An optimal build would run circles around that. And that is already just current thief, but *way* stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > > > > > This! > > > > > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > > > > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. > > > > Wierd though as half or more of the population has left since the de-powercreep phase :) I'm glad players with ur mind set are here to help anet with their ever growing pvp scene, ur guys nerf everything mentality had done wonders for this games pvp scene. Hopefully u they carry on further and u and like minded players can continue enjoying the pvp scene while it continues to steadily bleed players. Soon ull all be well acquainted as the small handful of players left in a yr or so will have the opportunity to get real close lol > > Questionable. There have been huge drops of player numbers in the past - to a large part related to the powercreep, resulting bad balance as well as the discontinuation of competitive events - and i doubt the remaining population would have survived another mass-exodus of similar extent. And yet there are still players playing somehow ... Lol keep tell urself that :). Mmo's suffer from declines and inclines of populations throughout their lifespans and that's normal but since this de-powercreep initiative the games basically suffered a de-population as well. Powercreep is real sure but it woulda been better to deal with the few outliers and tone them down at the level we were at than just gut everything which also dumbed the game down at the same time and resulted in the classes becoming way less enjoyable to play. Great if that's not the case for but the current population decline in pvp speaks volumes lol. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > > > > > Old Cele, if you just stood still, would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. > > Good luck standing still for 10 seconds with a Holo or Renegade about. [This]( ) Cele Ele, facing a Cele Engineer, dealing around 7-8k damage in a single second, "would take 10+ seconds to kill you"? Are you *sure* you want to go with that argument? Because there is still time to take it back. Cele Ele could kill even other Celestial builds within seconds. If they failed their defenses. While having really good defenses and sustain of its own. Holo would stand no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > No it would completely eclipse todays meta roster. It would've had trouble pre-patch, and probably would've had trouble in the early days of HoT, but otherwise it would've been right up there. The current state of the game is weaker than all of HoT, all of PoF, and all of pre-HoT. We have never had damage this low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmbraNoctis.1907 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > > > This! > > > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. > > And you could mix and match the traits more easily. A lot of traits were actually *stronger* too. Oh and while stats were lower, they were lower *across the board*. Offensive *and* defensive. We'd compare them with the same gear. And no, the stronger skills more than make up for it. Just take a look at [this]( ). Notice how, even though all stats were lower (including health), the Theif hits a lot *harder* than right now? And that wasnt even an optimal build (Sadly I had to work with what Ive got since there are barely any videos from around that time that arent WvW). An optimal build would run circles around that. And that is already just current thief, but *way* stronger. Lol no, the thief shown in the vid hits about as hard as thieves do right now, but has way way less survivability. > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > > > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > > > > > > > > > Old Cele, if you just stood still, would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. > > > > Good luck standing still for 10 seconds with a Holo or Renegade about. > > [This]( ) Cele Ele, facing a Cele Engineer, dealing around 7-8k damage in a single second, "would take 10+ seconds to kill you"? Are you *sure* you want to go with that argument? Because there is still time to take it back. Cele Ele could kill even other Celestial builds within seconds. If they failed their defenses. While having really good defenses and sustain of its own. Holo would stand no chance. That's not cele, they are both most likely zerk. The ele is FA. Which always had good burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > > > > > This! > > > > > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > > > > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. > > > > And you could mix and match the traits more easily. A lot of traits were actually *stronger* too. Oh and while stats were lower, they were lower *across the board*. Offensive *and* defensive. We'd compare them with the same gear. And no, the stronger skills more than make up for it. Just take a look at [this]( ). Notice how, even though all stats were lower (including health), the Theif hits a lot *harder* than right now? And that wasnt even an optimal build (Sadly I had to work with what Ive got since there are barely any videos from around that time that arent WvW). An optimal build would run circles around that. And that is already just current thief, but *way* stronger. > > Lol no, the thief shown in the vid hits about as hard as thieves do right now, but has way way less survivability. You're impressively wrong in every single point you just made. Lets start. [This]( ) is the damage his backstab does against a squishy. Keep in mind, even the raw number of 6315 is a lot higher than thief can currently hit (thief currently maxes out at 5k, usually 4.5k). But remember how you said "stats were lower"? That *includes* HP. That 6315 did a lot more damage relative to the targets HP than 6315 would do right now. So no, he hits *way* harder. As for survivability, well, lets start with his HP. This build is suboptimal, so it has a lot more HP than normal. Currently the standard thief has 15417 hp. But again, remember, *stats were lower*. That 14k hp is actually a lot more effective hp than the current 15417. Well what about his defenses? Withdraw has a *15* second cooldown. 10 seconds lower. He has a passive 320 healing in stealth (back then people hadnt yet figured out stealth wasnt so good in-combat), but also immunity to crits and 25% damage reduction. Cheaper, more accessible blinds. Better mug. And just better defensive stats. He has *way* more survivability. This thief would completely wipe the floor with a current thief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > The OP is way right...and you are way wrong > > > > > > Is this the "healthy" game you're referring to? 4 Professions out of 9 being played in PvP? > > > The video shows more than 4 classes being played ... Also displaying bad diversity/balance pre nerf does not mean more powercreep is the way to go. > > The two biggest power spikes in this game have been pre HoT spec update - which resulted in cele d/d ele dominating like nothing else has ever done (teams were stacking 4-5 of them ... and winning) - and HoT release, when teams would run double chrono and double rev and the 5th spot was probably only filled by another class because of their newly implemented "no more than 2 of each class per team" rule. Most diversity in competitive play you have seen afterwards was forced by the no-class-stacking-rule, something that wasn't deemed necessary in the past, and not the result of balance. > > Are balance and diversity great right now? No. But there has been times where it was much worse, so the direction they are heading is probably not completely wrong. > > People keep throwing around "cele ele- cele ele" without any actual knowledge of the PvP landscape back then...somebody who just started playing GW2 last month by reading the forums would think that prior to HoT launch , the game was populated by 10 eles per match....I will give the correct **numbers** for new players and those alike who lack knowledge about the history of this game: 1) Prior to HoT launch we had : **-Cele axe/shield warrior** **-Cele engi** and **-Cele D/D ele** There would be others but I stop here, the builds I have mentioned were unquestionably strong but ele was not nearly as OP as people would otherwise make you believe, it was possibly the best side noder I give you that but no more than that, at that time we had **Abjured running with double ele** and that's it 2) **June 2015 Condition revamp patch** People start running Fire cele D/D ele, the new build is clearly overperforming, therefore it get abused by TOP team and one team win the **Sept 2015 Tournament with 4 eles** 3) HoT Launch Oct2015 = HoT launch, the fire cele ele get nerfed with subsequent patch, GM and adept traits nerfed, dagger off hand burning dmg reduced and other nerfs I can't remember now....after that was HoT meta So in the end people keep using ele as some sort of broken concept that apparently **never happened again or ever did in GW2**....pffff..really? -What about **triple rev teams winning monthly?** -Double/triple holo team in tournaments? -How many revs per team do you still find during tournament? Cele ele? I see a very strong profession no doubts and this was before the condi revamps BS which allowed people to stack burning to kingdom come AKA **massive ele population** during 2015....5 years ago...with different devs.....2 expansions ago..... In the end **cele ele was broken for few months before HoT launch** and people still ...whine about it..when some other professions have been broken/abused for years.....sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > > > > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Cele, if you just stood still, would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. > > > > > > Good luck standing still for 10 seconds with a Holo or Renegade about. > > > > [This]( ) Cele Ele, facing a Cele Engineer, dealing around 7-8k damage in a single second, "would take 10+ seconds to kill you"? Are you *sure* you want to go with that argument? Because there is still time to take it back. Cele Ele could kill even other Celestial builds within seconds. If they failed their defenses. While having really good defenses and sustain of its own. Holo would stand no chance. > > That's not cele, they are both most likely zerk. The ele is FA. Which always had good burst. Yes, Berzerker Engineer with 18k hp. And a Fresh Air ele using the air attunement the *least* and bursting with fire. What the hell are you on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > > > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > > > > > > > > > Old Cele, if you just stood still, would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. > > > > Good luck standing still for 10 seconds with a Holo or Renegade about. > > [This]( ) Cele Ele, facing a Cele Engineer, dealing around 7-8k damage in a single second, "would take 10+ seconds to kill you"? Are you *sure* you want to go with that argument? Because there is still time to take it back. Cele Ele could kill even other Celestial builds within seconds. If they failed their defenses. While having really good defenses and sustain of its own. Holo would stand no chance. LOL you link a video of a zerker sceptre FA ele as an example of celestial d/d ele damage. Okay mate. Yes, I'm quite happy with my statement on damage. I well remember dueling Cele back then, duels would go on for 2+ minutes and eventually Cele would win with superior sustain and constant chip burn stacks, not by booming for 8k. EDIT: I see the confusion. Most people where saying "Cele" mean "celestial d/d elementalist". But you've taken it to mean literally any build with celestial amulet. Ehhhhh, fine, you do you. But it's strange, given that your original comment was specifically about celestial Elementalist, and so was the comment I replied to. Do try and pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > > > > > No it would completely eclipse todays meta roster. It would've had trouble pre-patch, and probably would've had trouble in the early days of HoT, but otherwise it would've been right up there. The current state of the game is weaker than all of HoT, all of PoF, and all of pre-HoT. We have never had damage this low. Watched it, I don't know what are you on but I want the same shit , this would been ran over by most classes currently like a train, just because of the mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Build diversity isn't a thing if everyone is forced to conform to the same playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > > > > > > > This! > > > > > > > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > > > > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > > > > > > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. > > > > > > And you could mix and match the traits more easily. A lot of traits were actually *stronger* too. Oh and while stats were lower, they were lower *across the board*. Offensive *and* defensive. We'd compare them with the same gear. And no, the stronger skills more than make up for it. Just take a look at [this]( ). Notice how, even though all stats were lower (including health), the Theif hits a lot *harder* than right now? And that wasnt even an optimal build (Sadly I had to work with what Ive got since there are barely any videos from around that time that arent WvW). An optimal build would run circles around that. And that is already just current thief, but *way* stronger. > > > > Lol no, the thief shown in the vid hits about as hard as thieves do right now, but has way way less survivability. > > You're impressively wrong in every single point you just made. Lets start. [This]( ) is the damage his backstab does against a squishy. Keep in mind, even the raw number of 6315 is a lot higher than thief can currently hit (thief currently maxes out at 5k, usually 4.5k). But remember how you said "stats were lower"? That *includes* HP. That 6315 did a lot more damage relative to the targets HP than 6315 would do right now. So no, he hits *way* harder. As for survivability, well, lets start with his HP. This build is suboptimal, so it has a lot more HP than normal. Currently the standard thief has 15417 hp. But again, remember, *stats were lower*. That 14k hp is actually a lot more effective hp than the current 15417. Well what about his defenses? Withdraw has a *15* second cooldown. 10 seconds lower. He has a passive 320 healing in stealth (back then people hadnt yet figured out stealth wasnt so good in-combat), but also immunity to crits and 25% damage reduction. Cheaper, more accessible blinds. Better mug. And just better defensive stats. He has *way* more survivability. This thief would completely wipe the floor with a current thief. Got hit with an 8k backstab just last night. Admittedly it doesn't usually hit that hard, but it is in no way "maxed out" at 5k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UmbraNoctis.1907 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > In the end **cele ele was broken for few months before HoT launch** and people still ...whine about it..when some other professions have been broken/abused for years.....sad Nobody whines about cele ele, it is just a prime example of what results powercreep can have. > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > > @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year > > > > > XD Yea, no. Even if it was in it's prime days, it wouldn't even come close to even todays meta roster. Great joke though, I almost cried from laughter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Old Cele, if you just stood still, would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. > > > > > > > > Good luck standing still for 10 seconds with a Holo or Renegade about. > > > > > > [This]( ) Cele Ele, facing a Cele Engineer, dealing around 7-8k damage in a single second, "would take 10+ seconds to kill you"? Are you *sure* you want to go with that argument? Because there is still time to take it back. Cele Ele could kill even other Celestial builds within seconds. If they failed their defenses. While having really good defenses and sustain of its own. Holo would stand no chance. > > > > That's not cele, they are both most likely zerk. The ele is FA. Which always had good burst. > > Yes, Berzerker Engineer with 18k hp. And a Fresh Air ele using the air attunement the *least* and bursting with fire. What the hell are you on about? Back then zerk amulet would grant vita stats and core FA's main burst skill is phoenix - a fire skill. > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > > > > > > > This! > > > > > > > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > > > > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > > > > > > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. > > > > > > And you could mix and match the traits more easily. A lot of traits were actually *stronger* too. Oh and while stats were lower, they were lower *across the board*. Offensive *and* defensive. We'd compare them with the same gear. And no, the stronger skills more than make up for it. Just take a look at [this]( ). Notice how, even though all stats were lower (including health), the Theif hits a lot *harder* than right now? And that wasnt even an optimal build (Sadly I had to work with what Ive got since there are barely any videos from around that time that arent WvW). An optimal build would run circles around that. And that is already just current thief, but *way* stronger. > > > > Lol no, the thief shown in the vid hits about as hard as thieves do right now, but has way way less survivability. > > You're impressively wrong in every single point you just made. Lets start. [This]( ) is the damage his backstab does against a squishy. Keep in mind, even the raw number of 6315 is a lot higher than thief can currently hit (thief currently maxes out at 5k, usually 4.5k). But remember how you said "stats were lower"? That *includes* HP. That 6315 did a lot more damage relative to the targets HP than 6315 would do right now. So no, he hits *way* harder. As for survivability, well, lets start with his HP. This build is suboptimal, so it has a lot more HP than normal. Currently the standard thief has 15417 hp. But again, remember, *stats were lower*. That 14k hp is actually a lot more effective hp than the current 15417. Well what about his defenses? Withdraw has a *15* second cooldown. 10 seconds lower. He has a passive 320 healing in stealth (back then people hadnt yet figured out stealth wasnt so good in-combat), but also immunity to crits and 25% damage reduction. Cheaper, more accessible blinds. Better mug. And just better defensive stats. He has *way* more survivability. This thief would completely wipe the floor with a current thief. Can't argue about delusion ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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