Guardian Burn DMG

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said:

> > > > So for everyone who is dumb enough to defend this build by saying that it wont work against a real team, well, that is not the problem here. The problem doesnt exist in ATs or anything of the sort. The problem is that when I q into ranked and this build is farming pugs because its braindead and applies mega burning stacks, which are then covered because you know, its a team fight and thats what happens, my pugs are instantly dead. I'm not here for tips. I've multiple top 100 titles and even for ATs, my account is in top 40 for the most emblems held. No, this thread is about literal braindead players being carried by a spec so simple that a rat could play it and climb much higher than what their skill level should ever allow. The build is unhealthy for the game. Actually, one could say that its more unhealthy than nade holo ever was as it takes that little skill. There have been builds that have been this unhealthy in the past such as condi thief being able to apply 20+ stacks of poison etc. and they have been reworked or nerfed. If you really want to see the impact that this spec is having on the game, go back to last season's top 250/100/25/etc. and look at the ratings, then go look right now. T250 is literally sitting at 1500 and T100 is far below P2 lol. Its a joke. People dont want to play this trash. So again, its unhealthy for the game.

> > >

> > > So you are saying that a build that requires team fights (for condi cover, since guard has only a small number of condis outside burn) and is incredibly squishy (~15k hp) is the problem? I don't get it. Condi thief was a problem because it had mobility and could provide its own cover. Core guard has one of the worst mobilities out of any class. Your rune almost always has to be 25% ms rune, which don't even function with condi. It also has one invun.. which it needs to channel for. If there ever was a class that could be easily bursted down, its core guard.

> > >

> > > The reason core guard is good now is the combination of overall nerfed damage and that ranger is in a bad place. Rangers used to be 90-10 vs guard 1v1. Holo also used to deal with guards easily, but that has also been nerfed. And i say 'good', but i rarely see burn guard above mid gold.

> > >

> > > I understand the forum needs something to complain about, but core guard really isn't the target you should be looking at. A few buffs to underperforming classes and burn guard is again at the wayside.

> >

> > U do realize ppl are mostly talking about burn dh which has 20k hp and is probably the best build in the meta rn. Also as someone around when condi thief was in its prime I can tell u it’s way better than condi thief ever was. Also ranger has never been a winning MU into guard that is pure delusion. Core guard would destroy both ranger and holo in 1v1 not too long ago, so what are u crying about guard is busted

>

> Literally everything beats it 1v1 if played by someone with an iq over 40.

>

> Wait for the stealth to run out, don't run onto where the traps obviously are, kill defenseless DH, take point.

>

> It shouldn't be listed in even top 10 builds, let alone #1. But expecting people to make plays requiring iq over 40 is too much I suppose.

>

> I've yet to come across a burn DH that presented the slightest challenge 1v1, and I play core-zerker greatsword. The only time they're dangerous is in a +1 situation, and the same can be said for literally any class/build.

 

One of the big problems there is the don’t run into traps. This is a conquest game where nodes are at least 50% of the battle. If I simply set a parameter as follows - “go where ever you want if it will contribute towards being able to kill players” than the game would look very different and we’d even see cheese comps with condi trap ranger, as the top 1v1er due to ability to cc with a lot of condis while they run around, and the rest bunker supports who can kite where ever they want. It would actually look exactly like wow arenas with survival hunters, mist walker monks healing on the go and occasional meme burst comps like double dks set on 1 shooting rogue+mage comps.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said:

> > > > > So for everyone who is dumb enough to defend this build by saying that it wont work against a real team, well, that is not the problem here. The problem doesnt exist in ATs or anything of the sort. The problem is that when I q into ranked and this build is farming pugs because its braindead and applies mega burning stacks, which are then covered because you know, its a team fight and thats what happens, my pugs are instantly dead. I'm not here for tips. I've multiple top 100 titles and even for ATs, my account is in top 40 for the most emblems held. No, this thread is about literal braindead players being carried by a spec so simple that a rat could play it and climb much higher than what their skill level should ever allow. The build is unhealthy for the game. Actually, one could say that its more unhealthy than nade holo ever was as it takes that little skill. There have been builds that have been this unhealthy in the past such as condi thief being able to apply 20+ stacks of poison etc. and they have been reworked or nerfed. If you really want to see the impact that this spec is having on the game, go back to last season's top 250/100/25/etc. and look at the ratings, then go look right now. T250 is literally sitting at 1500 and T100 is far below P2 lol. Its a joke. People dont want to play this trash. So again, its unhealthy for the game.

> > > >

> > > > So you are saying that a build that requires team fights (for condi cover, since guard has only a small number of condis outside burn) and is incredibly squishy (~15k hp) is the problem? I don't get it. Condi thief was a problem because it had mobility and could provide its own cover. Core guard has one of the worst mobilities out of any class. Your rune almost always has to be 25% ms rune, which don't even function with condi. It also has one invun.. which it needs to channel for. If there ever was a class that could be easily bursted down, its core guard.

> > > >

> > > > The reason core guard is good now is the combination of overall nerfed damage and that ranger is in a bad place. Rangers used to be 90-10 vs guard 1v1. Holo also used to deal with guards easily, but that has also been nerfed. And i say 'good', but i rarely see burn guard above mid gold.

> > > >

> > > > I understand the forum needs something to complain about, but core guard really isn't the target you should be looking at. A few buffs to underperforming classes and burn guard is again at the wayside.

> > >

> > > U do realize ppl are mostly talking about burn dh which has 20k hp and is probably the best build in the meta rn. Also as someone around when condi thief was in its prime I can tell u it’s way better than condi thief ever was. Also ranger has never been a winning MU into guard that is pure delusion. Core guard would destroy both ranger and holo in 1v1 not too long ago, so what are u crying about guard is busted

> >

> > Literally everything beats it 1v1 if played by someone with an iq over 40.

> >

> > Wait for the stealth to run out, don't run onto where the traps obviously are, kill defenseless DH, take point.

> >

> > It shouldn't be listed in even top 10 builds, let alone #1. But expecting people to make plays requiring iq over 40 is too much I suppose.

> >

> > I've yet to come across a burn DH that presented the slightest challenge 1v1, and I play core-zerker greatsword. The only time they're dangerous is in a +1 situation, and the same can be said for literally any class/build.

>

> One of the big problems there is the don’t run into traps. This is a conquest game where nodes are at least 50% of the battle. If I simply set a parameter as follows - “go where ever you want if it will contribute towards being able to kill players” than the game would look very different and we’d even see cheese comps with condi trap ranger, as the top 1v1er due to ability to cc with a lot of condis while they run around, and the rest bunker supports who can kite where ever they want. It would actually look exactly like wow arenas with survival hunters, mist walker monks healing on the go and occasional meme burst comps like double dks set on 1 shooting rogue+mage comps.

 

The thing is though, that "don't run into the traps" isn't even a hard-and-fast rule. It's only a rule if you have literally 0 cooldowns and 0 dodges.

 

You can totally do it if you have channeled block available, or leaps/evades/teleports, or minions/pets/clones to pop the traps pre-emptively. If you think the DH has loaded up the point with traps, there are ways of dealing with that, you don't have to either suicide or give-up. Just peek in and dodge out if things start exploding.

[Kuma.1503]

I wasn't expecting Burn guard to be the new hot topic. It's such an easy build to outplay. Even if they land all 15 of their "overpowered" burns on you, you can still survive with a single well timed cleanse.

 

Its ranged pressure is hot garbage. I've literally killed burn guards by pressing W and spamming mortars. It's very cooldown reliant. Beating burn guard is just a matter of learning to read the enemy's skills and properly time your cleanse.

 

If anything I'd call it a healthy build because learning to beat it comes naturally by grasping basic fundamentals of PvP.

[Animism.7530]

> @"Kuma.1503" said:

> I wasn't expecting Burn guard to be the new hot topic. It's such an easy build to outplay. Even if they land all 15 of their "overpowered" burns on you, you can still survive with a single well timed cleanse.

>

> Its ranged pressure is hot garbage. I've literally killed burn guards by pressing W and spamming mortars. It's very cooldown reliant. Beating burn guard is just a matter of learning to read the enemy's skills and properly time your cleanse.

>

> If anything I'd call it a healthy build because learning to beat it comes naturally by grasping basic fundamentals of PvP.

 

Agreed.

This post should be more about why Guardian only has a single, easily negatable tactic for pvp... Spamming burns through a variety of sources.

 

It's strong when people don't cleanse - and almost utterly useless when people do cleanse.

Guardian needs a buff in some form, not a nerf.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said:

> > > > > So for everyone who is dumb enough to defend this build by saying that it wont work against a real team, well, that is not the problem here. The problem doesnt exist in ATs or anything of the sort. The problem is that when I q into ranked and this build is farming pugs because its braindead and applies mega burning stacks, which are then covered because you know, its a team fight and thats what happens, my pugs are instantly dead. I'm not here for tips. I've multiple top 100 titles and even for ATs, my account is in top 40 for the most emblems held. No, this thread is about literal braindead players being carried by a spec so simple that a rat could play it and climb much higher than what their skill level should ever allow. The build is unhealthy for the game. Actually, one could say that its more unhealthy than nade holo ever was as it takes that little skill. There have been builds that have been this unhealthy in the past such as condi thief being able to apply 20+ stacks of poison etc. and they have been reworked or nerfed. If you really want to see the impact that this spec is having on the game, go back to last season's top 250/100/25/etc. and look at the ratings, then go look right now. T250 is literally sitting at 1500 and T100 is far below P2 lol. Its a joke. People dont want to play this trash. So again, its unhealthy for the game.

> > > >

> > > > So you are saying that a build that requires team fights (for condi cover, since guard has only a small number of condis outside burn) and is incredibly squishy (~15k hp) is the problem? I don't get it. Condi thief was a problem because it had mobility and could provide its own cover. Core guard has one of the worst mobilities out of any class. Your rune almost always has to be 25% ms rune, which don't even function with condi. It also has one invun.. which it needs to channel for. If there ever was a class that could be easily bursted down, its core guard.

> > > >

> > > > The reason core guard is good now is the combination of overall nerfed damage and that ranger is in a bad place. Rangers used to be 90-10 vs guard 1v1. Holo also used to deal with guards easily, but that has also been nerfed. And i say 'good', but i rarely see burn guard above mid gold.

> > > >

> > > > I understand the forum needs something to complain about, but core guard really isn't the target you should be looking at. A few buffs to underperforming classes and burn guard is again at the wayside.

> > >

> > > U do realize ppl are mostly talking about burn dh which has 20k hp and is probably the best build in the meta rn. Also as someone around when condi thief was in its prime I can tell u it’s way better than condi thief ever was. Also ranger has never been a winning MU into guard that is pure delusion. Core guard would destroy both ranger and holo in 1v1 not too long ago, so what are u crying about guard is busted

> >

> > Best build in the meta? You can't be serious. It has almost no cleanse itself and can't touch builds that can cleanse.

>

> Well what can u bring that’ll actually counter that? The list is small with basically just a full bunker scourge on it to completely counter it yet 1 trap with a cc followed up by applying your burn will 1 shot the scourge...

 

Even a small amount of consistent cleanse can hard counter this build, and of you have cleanse support then you've got a useless DH that can't do anything to anyone. It has no stun breaks, little cleanse, F2 is the only mobility it has, and if you can't get someone in Dragon's Maw or they use any number of ways to negate/escape it, then it's once again useless. Range pressure that forces them away from their traps or makes them F1 also hard counters them. If you try to face it head on then you're going to struggle.

[memausz.7264]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Leafstorm.1349" said:

> > Why is this still a thing? Why do guardians just hit you once and you have 6+ burn stacks? Why is it that you can apply 21+ burn stacks on something instantly? This is literally the bane of this game and the rise for every single bad player ever. You have had time to adjust this and you didnt even touch it in the patch. What a joke.

>

> Burn guard isn't a problem. Stop panic cleansing when you have 3 burn stacks.

 

You mean 3 stacks that can do 1200 dmg/tick for 4 seconds? Yeah, that's a death wish on its own. The game should not reward low skill players who can sit on a node and just lay traps.

 

Oh, and btw, tether pulls and scepter 3 immobs prevent you from disengaging

[memausz.7264]

The number of people defending 30,000 burn dmg per death for every single death here is unconscionable. No skill should be able to output THAT much damage in ANY scenario. You can at LEAST dodge high spike direct dmg attacks. You can't do that with burns once they've been applied, and dodging the first two spikes means there are still burn spikes that will happen because of the passive application of burns. And there's no anti-condi dmg state in the game available to all classes aside from Hoelbrak Rune - and Resistance Rune doesn't protect you from the spike once your actual resistance boon goes out. YOu will still die to 30K burn dmg. Literally nothing else in the game can spike damage that high.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said:

> > > Why is this still a thing? Why do guardians just hit you once and you have 6+ burn stacks? Why is it that you can apply 21+ burn stacks on something instantly? This is literally the bane of this game and the rise for every single bad player ever. You have had time to adjust this and you didnt even touch it in the patch. What a joke.

> >

> > Burn guard isn't a problem. Stop panic cleansing when you have 3 burn stacks.

>

> You mean 3 stacks that can do 1200 dmg/tick for 4 seconds? Yeah, that's a death wish on its own. The game should not reward low skill players who can sit on a node and just lay traps.

>

> Oh, and btw, tether pulls and scepter 3 immobs prevent you from disengaging

 

Would you rather be stuck with more stacks because you ran out of cleanses too early? Any DH that uses F1 to pull is gambling their damage on a pull into traps that can be negated in more ways to list than necessary. People really need to learn how to deal with condi, and this is one of the easier builds. Kite them off traps, pressure them from range, stop charging in headfirst onto the point knowing there are traps there.

[Zephoid.4263]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> The number of people defending 30,000 burn dmg per death for every single death here is unconscionable. No skill should be able to output THAT much damage in ANY scenario. You can at LEAST dodge high spike direct dmg attacks. You can't do that with burns once they've been applied, and dodging the first two spikes means there are still burn spikes that will happen because of the passive application of burns. And there's no anti-condi dmg state in the game available to all classes aside from Hoelbrak Rune - and Resistance Rune doesn't protect you from the spike once your actual resistance boon goes out. YOu will still die to 30K burn dmg. Literally nothing else in the game can spike damage that high.

 

How do you think guards generate burning? There is only ~4 skills that actually do burning damage. Almost all applications of burning come from F1. That means you need to generate 20-30 hits to generate a burning stack spike. If you were getting hit by 20-30 hits from most power classes in a single spike, you would probably also be dead. Guard's numbers are significantly lower in order to facility burn damage.

 

You know what burn guard are really good against? Bunkers. You know what this meta is? Bunkers. We are starting to get to the point of no class being able to kill bunkers 1v1. Burn guard is one of the last now that grenades got nerfed. How about we buff things back to reasonable levels rather than nerfing everything into no bunkers only.

[Ragnar.4257]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> The number of people defending 30,000 burn dmg per death for every single death here is unconscionable. No skill should be able to output THAT much damage in ANY scenario. You can at LEAST dodge high spike direct dmg attacks. You can't do that with burns once they've been applied, and dodging the first two spikes means there are still burn spikes that will happen because of the passive application of burns. And there's no anti-condi dmg state in the game available to all classes aside from Hoelbrak Rune - and Resistance Rune doesn't protect you from the spike once your actual resistance boon goes out. YOu will still die to 30K burn dmg. Literally nothing else in the game can spike damage that high.

 

If there was a skill that applied 30k damage, you might have a point.

 

But there isn't. So you don't.

[Abyssisis.3971]

If you are silly enough to fight on a trap field with giant whirling blue blades you kinda deserve to lose the fight. The build excels are stomping bad players, against more competent folk, it’s not nearly as oppressive.

[memausz.7264]

> @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > The number of people defending 30,000 burn dmg per death for every single death here is unconscionable. No skill should be able to output THAT much damage in ANY scenario. You can at LEAST dodge high spike direct dmg attacks. You can't do that with burns once they've been applied, and dodging the first two spikes means there are still burn spikes that will happen because of the passive application of burns. And there's no anti-condi dmg state in the game available to all classes aside from Hoelbrak Rune - and Resistance Rune doesn't protect you from the spike once your actual resistance boon goes out. YOu will still die to 30K burn dmg. Literally nothing else in the game can spike damage that high.

>

> How do you think guards generate burning? There is only ~4 skills that actually do burning damage. Almost all applications of burning come from F1. That means you need to generate 20-30 hits to generate a burning stack spike. If you were getting hit by 20-30 hits from most power classes in a single spike, you would probably also be dead. Guard's numbers are significantly lower in order to facility burn damage.

>

> You know what burn guard are really good against? Bunkers. You know what this meta is? Bunkers. We are starting to get to the point of no class being able to kill bunkers 1v1. Burn guard is one of the last now that grenades got nerfed. How about we buff things back to reasonable levels rather than nerfing everything into no bunkers only.

 

That's actually a better solution. I have no idea why Rabid Amulet is still in the game. And C Revs LOVE to abuse that amulet (because their sources of resistance take care of the condition damage).

 

And what of the elites that got nuked? "Chilled to the Bone" and Prime Light Beam need their damage back. That would help fight some bunkers. Especially when the balance team seems to think revs spamming Jade Winds every 10 seconds are okay.

 

 

[memausz.7264]

Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> > @"Zephoid.4263" said:

> > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > The number of people defending 30,000 burn dmg per death for every single death here is unconscionable. No skill should be able to output THAT much damage in ANY scenario. You can at LEAST dodge high spike direct dmg attacks. You can't do that with burns once they've been applied, and dodging the first two spikes means there are still burn spikes that will happen because of the passive application of burns. And there's no anti-condi dmg state in the game available to all classes aside from Hoelbrak Rune - and Resistance Rune doesn't protect you from the spike once your actual resistance boon goes out. YOu will still die to 30K burn dmg. Literally nothing else in the game can spike damage that high.

> >

> > How do you think guards generate burning? There is only ~4 skills that actually do burning damage. Almost all applications of burning come from F1. That means you need to generate 20-30 hits to generate a burning stack spike. If you were getting hit by 20-30 hits from most power classes in a single spike, you would probably also be dead. Guard's numbers are significantly lower in order to facility burn damage.

> >

> > You know what burn guard are really good against? Bunkers. You know what this meta is? Bunkers. We are starting to get to the point of no class being able to kill bunkers 1v1. Burn guard is one of the last now that grenades got nerfed. How about we buff things back to reasonable levels rather than nerfing everything into no bunkers only.

>

> That's actually a better solution. I have no idea why Rabid Amulet is still in the game. And C Revs LOVE to abuse that amulet (because their sources of resistance take care of the condition damage).

>

> And what of the elites that got nuked? "Chilled to the Bone" and Prime Light Beam need their damage back. That would help fight some bunkers. Especially when the balance team seems to think revs spamming Jade Winds every 10 seconds are okay.

>

>

The balance team doesn’t understand anything. This is obvious considering that they nerfed everything after pof and claimed that the game needed a super big and special balance patch because it became “power crept”. Not to mention follow up memes about “locked up” which don’t help them look smart, but who cares about that.

2 cents- don’t expect actual balance across classes and skills...

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg?

 

Because other things are generally more effective at killing you. The higher that number the worse burn was at bringing you down. I can take 15~20k direct damage and die, I can take 30k+ burning and not die.

 

 

 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

 

Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

>

> Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

 

Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

[otto.5684]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> The number of people defending 30,000 burn dmg per death for every single death here is unconscionable. No skill should be able to output THAT much damage in ANY scenario. You can at LEAST dodge high spike direct dmg attacks. You can't do that with burns once they've been applied, and dodging the first two spikes means there are still burn spikes that will happen because of the passive application of burns. And there's no anti-condi dmg state in the game available to all classes aside from Hoelbrak Rune - and Resistance Rune doesn't protect you from the spike once your actual resistance boon goes out. YOu will still die to 30K burn dmg. Literally nothing else in the game can spike damage that high.

 

Hmm... honestly, if you died to 30k burn damage you should not be on the forums complaining, but either looking at videos or reading guides to L2P.

[Buran.3796]

> @"memausz.7264" said:

> Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

 

* Chill is more lethal than most of other condis.

* Confussion counters enemy's gameplay in a way in which other condis can't dream off.

* Poison counters healings.

 

Lately I've been playing a burn DH which is the opposite of the trapper: runs full meditation (aside from the heal) and cleanses 11 conditions each 32 seconds; lacks the burst of the trapper but harcounters it entirely. Playing also power Herald, I think that the core burn Guardian is stronger than the burn DH trapper: that's just a pure glass cannon. But is funny that ANet turned FB into garbage just to see how Guardian players come in revenge with a PvE build (because yes, Sword of Justice is a dungeon/fractal/raid skill). Just happens that a lot of players aren't that different from the A.I. from a dungeon...

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

> >

> > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

>

> Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

 

Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

> > >

> > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

> >

> > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

>

> Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter.

 

no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario

Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage.

In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win.

[Brokensunday.4098]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

> > > >

> > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

> > >

> > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

> >

> > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter.

>

> no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario

> Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage.

> In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win.

 

You forgot to mention fear damage and the fear cc and the fact that the scourge has more sustain than the dh or core build.

 

Dh and core burn can kill more quickly but in a longer fight will lose to most builds.

 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

> > > >

> > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

> > >

> > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

> >

> > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter.

>

> no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario

> Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage.

> In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win.

 

You're comparing the damage of a build with a ton more bulk and cover to keep damage ticking to one with almost no sustain that can lose every bit of damage output from a single cleanse. Of course it's going to out dps non burn builds, that's all you apply. If you stand still and never cleanse then burn guard will kill you much faster, but if you DO cleanse then it's the opposite. If burn guard did little damage then it would quite literally be the most useless condi build to ever exist, ever. That's the tradeoff of having a single condi that does any damage, it HAS to have it front loaded more than other condi builds because its damage is stopped by even minimal cleanse. If you bring low cleanse against a scourge then you're in for a lot of frustration that you're always taking damage after you expend all your resources. You can bring low cleanse against a burn guard and still survive because of how low the condi output is overall. No need to worry about cover condi or what condi to prioritize cleansing, just cleanse the burns before the stacks get high and after key skills, and don't stand in SoJ; someone pointed out that it's a PvE skill designed to use against stationary targets and now people in PvP are complaining about it. Says a lot about the status of the PvP community.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

> > >

> > > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter.

> >

> > no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario

> > Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage.

> > In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win.

>

> You're comparing the damage of a build with a ton more bulk and cover to keep damage ticking to one with almost no sustain that can lose every bit of damage output from a single cleanse. Of course it's going to out dps non burn builds, that's all you apply. If you stand still and never cleanse then burn guard will kill you much faster, but if you DO cleanse then it's the opposite. If burn guard did little damage then it would quite literally be the most useless condi build to ever exist, ever. That's the tradeoff of having a single condi that does any damage, it HAS to have it front loaded more than other condi builds because its damage is stopped by even minimal cleanse. If you bring low cleanse against a scourge then you're in for a lot of frustration that you're always taking damage after you expend all your resources. You can bring low cleanse against a burn guard and still survive because of how low the condi output is overall. No need to worry about cover condi or what condi to prioritize cleansing, just cleanse the burns before the stacks get high and after key skills, and don't stand in SoJ; someone pointed out that it's a PvE skill designed to use against stationary targets and now people in PvP are complaining about it. Says a lot about the status of the PvP community.

 

I am not comparing a bulky build. If you’d bother to listen u would’ve check how pitiful the numbers for necro are in areas and that includes reapplication- burn guard is just better in maintaining condition pressure.

 

I’d also like to point out that it’s baffling that you are set in pointing out one of the strongest builds in the game is actually under performing.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said:

> > > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said:

> > > > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential

> > > >

> > > > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter.

> > >

> > > no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario

> > > Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage.

> > > In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win.

> >

> > You're comparing the damage of a build with a ton more bulk and cover to keep damage ticking to one with almost no sustain that can lose every bit of damage output from a single cleanse. Of course it's going to out dps non burn builds, that's all you apply. If you stand still and never cleanse then burn guard will kill you much faster, but if you DO cleanse then it's the opposite. If burn guard did little damage then it would quite literally be the most useless condi build to ever exist, ever. That's the tradeoff of having a single condi that does any damage, it HAS to have it front loaded more than other condi builds because its damage is stopped by even minimal cleanse. If you bring low cleanse against a scourge then you're in for a lot of frustration that you're always taking damage after you expend all your resources. You can bring low cleanse against a burn guard and still survive because of how low the condi output is overall. No need to worry about cover condi or what condi to prioritize cleansing, just cleanse the burns before the stacks get high and after key skills, and don't stand in SoJ; someone pointed out that it's a PvE skill designed to use against stationary targets and now people in PvP are complaining about it. Says a lot about the status of the PvP community.

>

> I am not comparing a bulky build. If you’d bother to listen u would’ve check how pitiful the numbers for necro are in areas and that includes reapplication- burn guard is just better in maintaining condition pressure.

>

> I’d also like to point out that it’s baffling that you are set in pointing out one of the strongest builds in the game is actually under performing.

 

Scourge is naturally more bulky than DH, and again burn is all you apply as guardian so of course reapplication is going to be higher. The inverse is that cleanse is disproportionately much more effective against burn DH because of the sheer lack of cover condi. It's not one of the strongest builds in the game, it's a gimmick build that people refuse to l2p against, and I don't often say l2p. It has very clear and exploitable counters, but ffs we have people complaining about SoJ so people aren't actually trying to play around it, they're running in head first and getting upset that they die. Bring cleanse, use it at the right times, bring range pressure.