End of Dragons might not be enough.

[Lily.1935]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> So...did you go back and do the Dungeons as a new L80?

> Just hitting L80 doesn't make one much less 'new'.

>

> It's not really any different with Strikes, Raids, ...any instanced content. If one uses the LFG, one finds many requests for particular advanced-level players.

>

> In other words, I'm not sure forcing/offering some special 'training' instanced content will change players expecting/desiring knowledgeable players to join their groups.

 

Story dungeons are pretty easy as they are and are required to have at least one person have done to open. I'm not sure if that's account wide now but I know it didn't used to be. Using the story mode to teach I feel would be fine and translating what you learned in explorable in a not too difficult manner would work alright. Story dungeons are rarely run, at least on NA from what I've seen.

 

Your second point is correct, It wont necessarily change that expectation or desire, however giving more tools to succeed is never a bad thing.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > Claiming you write on behalf of others is poor argumantation. You need a mandate to do so and it does not seem you have one.

> > That does not mean tha tI do not welcome your argument, but the starting claims just makes it weaker and not stronger. Write it from your own perspective what you would like to be changed and why.

> >

> > I personally disagree with you. There is not much wrong with the older maps and the core maps. I do think the game needs some renewal. I would rather see them do this in new content. A good example would be the intro of a new level 0 tot 80 experience for players with the latest expansion. It gives room for the introduction of new races, looks and backstories, but also with new low level maps. Like in GW1, the new experience can be made more efficient and quicker. the old zones might get deserted except for nostalgic and F2P players, but that should not be a big problem. It is like GW1. With GW2 you can still enjoy GW1 if you want, it is just not maintained and GW2 gives a more modern experience.

>

> First part about the old maps. No, I don't think the old maps have a problem per say. There is an issue with scaling though if you're a max level going back to an old map which can be problematic when doing events for dailies. Having level 80s one shot everything while new players are still getting used to the game. Which is why I said to better adjust the scaling for the power creep of the game. But no, I do not think open world needs to be revamped.

>

> The other aspect of open world I mentioned is rewards. I do like the idea of rewards new and old players could work toward that have lasting value in those zones but not locked to a specific zone. I think open world in early zones is good casual fun so having something newbies can do and feel rewarded for and something old players can come back to after a hard day at work or school has some merit to it.

>

> Second point you make about new level 1 to 80 zones. ABSOLUTELY! I'm 100% with you on this. I would love new leveling zones for the game with new world events and a new race and/or class to play with in those zones.

>

>

 

We already have this its called events and world bosses.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"mercury ranique.2170" said:

> > Claiming you write on behalf of others is poor argumantation. You need a mandate to do so and it does not seem you have one.

> > That does not mean tha tI do not welcome your argument, but the starting claims just makes it weaker and not stronger. Write it from your own perspective what you would like to be changed and why.

> >

> > I personally disagree with you. There is not much wrong with the older maps and the core maps. I do think the game needs some renewal. I would rather see them do this in new content. A good example would be the intro of a new level 0 tot 80 experience for players with the latest expansion. It gives room for the introduction of new races, looks and backstories, but also with new low level maps. Like in GW1, the new experience can be made more efficient and quicker. the old zones might get deserted except for nostalgic and F2P players, but that should not be a big problem. It is like GW1. With GW2 you can still enjoy GW1 if you want, it is just not maintained and GW2 gives a more modern experience.

>

> First part about the old maps. No, I don't think the old maps have a problem per say. There is an issue with scaling though if you're a max level going back to an old map which can be problematic when doing events for dailies. Having level 80s one shot everything while new players are still getting used to the game. Which is why I said to better adjust the scaling for the power creep of the game. But no, I do not think open world needs to be revamped.

>

Except that's not a problem because level 80's aren't flooding core maps to interact with the mobs that non-80's are fighting to do hearts, etc ... I mean, let's ask the question _"Why does Anet need to scale non-80 map mobs better for endgame equipped level 80s?"_ I don't see a reason anyone would want that to begin with. If you really WANT a scaled down experience on a level 80 in a non-80 map, just gear appropriately so your aren't so overwhelmingly power in those zones ... or level a new character. The bottomline: there are options to play in non-80 zones without Anet needing to change the game to better accommodate of level 80 characters in those zones.

 

> The other aspect of open world I mentioned is rewards. I do like the idea of rewards new and old players could work toward that have lasting value in those zones but not locked to a specific zone. I think open world in early zones is good casual fun so having something newbies can do and feel rewarded for and something old players can come back to after a hard day at work or school has some merit to it.

>

Well, we do have some of that because of things like:

 

1. the gear 'old' players want requires materials from these zones

2. map completion isn't limited non-80 characters

3. Anet does continue to populate core zones with endgame content specifically relevant to 80's

 

The sentiment is right ... continue to make the core relevant at all levels. I think that Anet has managed to do that.

 

> Second point you make about new level 1 to 80 zones. ABSOLUTELY! I'm 100% with you on this. I would love new leveling zones for the game with new world events and a new race and/or class to play with in those zones.

>

Sounds to me like you just need a new game because I don't really see how this would work. The value to players is not high; the leveling experience is already an experience for almost every player in the game (excluding those that just boosted). I think we can all admit that at the LEAST, there is some value in a completely DIFFERENT storyline for a new character ... but I would still propose that that value is only fully realized if players are able to at least experience that story as a fully fledged level 80 character.

 

 

[Yggranya.5201]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > > Guilds are something that can help. If the new players want to join one. And them playing with other people makes them more likely. At some point they do need to be pushed into multiplayer content. Sooner than later is better.

> > > > Why not simply force players into guilds to play the game? Seems like you are advocating forcing content on players anyway or forcing players to have to play with others.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Why play a Massively multiplayer Online Video game if you're not going to play with other people?

> >

> > Why not? It's not enforced. I realize that you want to change that, but seems unlikely that anet would do something so dumb. Like FFXIV, if raids start being required to progress, i will quit. Simplicity itself.

>

> Dungeons are required in Final Fantasy 14 to progress the story.

 

Yes, i know. You could've assume that i'm fine with that as i didn't even mention them. Raids on the other hand are 100x worse because of the players there. Like so, so much worse.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Lily.1935" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > I don't know. Do that many new players (or old) visit the Dungeons?

> > I've only visited a couple. Never raided.

> > Is instanced group content that popular with new players? With the population overall?

> >

> > I'm not sure adding tutorial messages to the UI would be considered 'rebalancing'. :confused:

>

> Used to be extremely popular and its usually one of the primary draws for new players once they get to the appropriate level.

 

maybe in bizarro world, certainly not in this one. this game has the worst dungeons i have EVER seen .

even wow dungeons are better, and dont even compare to FF14s

[Fuchslein.8639]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > I don't know. Do that many new players (or old) visit the Dungeons?

> > > I've only visited a couple. Never raided.

> > > Is instanced group content that popular with new players? With the population overall?

> > >

> > > I'm not sure adding tutorial messages to the UI would be considered 'rebalancing'. :confused:

> >

> > Used to be extremely popular and its usually one of the primary draws for new players once they get to the appropriate level.

>

> maybe in bizarro world, certainly not in this one. this game has the worst dungeons i have EVER seen .

> even wow dungeons are better, and dont even compare to FF14s

 

Makes me wonder why there were always requests and complaints that dungeons were dropped by anet when nobody did like them anyway ...

[Lily.1935]

> @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > @"Yggranya.5201" said:

> > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said:

> > > > > > Guilds are something that can help. If the new players want to join one. And them playing with other people makes them more likely. At some point they do need to be pushed into multiplayer content. Sooner than later is better.

> > > > > Why not simply force players into guilds to play the game? Seems like you are advocating forcing content on players anyway or forcing players to have to play with others.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why play a Massively multiplayer Online Video game if you're not going to play with other people?

> > >

> > > Why not? It's not enforced. I realize that you want to change that, but seems unlikely that anet would do something so dumb. Like FFXIV, if raids start being required to progress, i will quit. Simplicity itself.

> >

> > Dungeons are required in Final Fantasy 14 to progress the story.

>

> Yes, i know. You could've assume that i'm fine with that as i didn't even mention them. Raids on the other hand are 100x worse because of the players there. Like so, so much worse.

 

Why on earth would you assume I'd ever suggest requiring raids to level? Didn't even suggest that for dungeons.

[Luthan.5236]

I understand that a problem is with new players that want to start with the latest content because ArenaNet also advertises this new content ... trying to get new players into the game. Without a mount they will be at a disadvantage there. (Especially if it is events that get rushed by players that move quickly with a mount.)

 

Then they'll start to get their mounts ... quickly going to all those zones they have never been before for some collections.

 

Personally I enjoy playing stuff in order of release. I just finished PoF and my griffon. Going for Season 4 and Icebrood soon. (I should have caught up ... at least with 1 char and major achievements - by the time new expansion gets released.) For the other chars (alts) I get the feelling that the mounts will be nice. With all the major achievements (except collections and other grindy stuff) done I can just rush the story and map completion (I aim to do this with 8 other chars - 1 for each professoin) without having to spend too much time.

 

The experience of doing everything at least once as intended (older zones without mounts/gliding) was fun though. Do not want to muss out on such an experienc.e Though for some stuff (a few coins in Silverwastes) I did wait a bit (for gliding to use there). Was just tooo hard. (At least I tried ha ha.)

 

The question here is only about first time/character. For a 2nd+ chars people probably won't have a big problem. With new players it isn't only rushing stuff in older zones but also just going to the zone for 1 collection (probably without even experiencing the other stuff in that zone). Then again: We still have legendaries (the old ones that use gift from core tyria world completion) and the core personal story (achievements for this) ... to get older players to to this.

 

So ... I do no see a big problem here. It is more about the mindset of the players. And the strategy of advertising. (Advertising the latest content towards new player.s What will the next expansion bring? Would be good if it somehow did not rely on mounts for most stuff. Meaning: Most stuff to be done without mounts. And some other mastery that can just be obtained by new players without getting the older ones first. Then old players might cry "why did I get my mount when I do not need it now".)

 

In the major citites chat everyone will talk about the latest stuff. (I actually disable the chat sometimes then. To not feel pressure to rush. So far I managed to do stuff in release order. :D But I did most core older stuff back then in 2012/13. I played from release until end 2013 ... then long break until I returned mdi 2019. Mid 2019 until now It took me for Silverwastates, HoT+PoF maps and Story 2+3 and HoT+PoF story. Not such a big amount of time if you take into account in what time frame that stuff got released. Adnd I did most achievements except the collections for weapons and stuff.)

 

Bigger problem might be if on top of now strike missions and dragon response missions (they didn't seem to be well recevived by the community - according to the forum responses) too much other stuff gets added. (Too "cluttered" with stuff where older stuff won't be relevant anymore. After the fractal rush I guess we need a dungeon rush. I still need to do my story modes there. :P Rarely players on the LfG tool ...)

[Lily.1935]

> @"Luthan.5236" said:

> So ... I do no see a big problem here. It is more about the mindset of the players. And the strategy of advertising. (Advertising the latest content towards new player.s What will the next expansion bring? Would be good if it somehow did not rely on mounts for most stuff. Meaning: Most stuff to be done without mounts. And some other mastery that can just be obtained by new players without getting the older ones first. Then old players might cry "why did I get my mount when I do not need it now".)

 

I do agree with most of what you've said, but its this part I wanted to highlight as it is a part of the issue I see in this game. Where you see it as being on the players to create that fun for themselves, and to an extent I agree with that sentiment. However at the same time it isn't entirely on the players to make the game enjoyable. The game and game company itself cultivates the mindset of their players to some extent and in Guild Wars 2's case Arena net has cultivated this mentality of always chasing the next big thing. Eventually that was going to burn out and as it has the core of the game needs to be made to have longevity and to be used to shift the players into a mixed mentality of old and new. At least that's my opinion on the solution.

 

Basically, my point to your point is the majority of the players will reflect the mindset the game cultivates.

[Luthan.5236]

Yeah. You are not wrong about this. That is what I meant a bit with the advertising/marketing strategy. (Trying to get new player to directly play the latest content.) From the current playerbase always some people rush the new content ... and quickly want new content. And the problem is that ArenaNet gives them the new content: Every few months a new chapter of Living World. And people still rush it and cry for more. (Instead of re-playing the old content.) That way the people won't breakt ouf of this mindset. If they keep getting fed with new stuff.

 

Slower release schedule would be better ... not a faster one. And more focus on replayable content. Instead of new stuff that makes older content obsolete. Raids basically replaced dungeons - for example.

 

And PvP and WvW are barely getting any attention. Where these would have most potential to be replayed without a lot (but you still need some every now and then) of updates - cause fighting against other players is interesting by itself. Where PvE with enemies that always have the same mechanics ... needs new stuff added more often.

 

The big difference for me - compared to other MMORPG - is that you can catch up pretty fast. For gear for most stuff exotics are enough and ascended is not hard to obtain. (And legendary is just for skin+convenience ... not needed.) Might for some be a reason to stop playing - if they need a "gear treadmill". For me actually it is a reason NOT to play other games. (The feeling to never reach the end... when as new player while trying to get the better gear they always keep adding new and stronger stuff ... is not satisfying to me.)

 

I want to reach an end: Where I have most achievements (except some super grindy ones) and maybe legendaries as endgame goal. When I can only play for fun (for the game mode itself ... the fun of beating some hard boss ... or PvP/WvW). A lot of others though need always new stuff. Cause the find only fun in rushing the laterst content.

 

To some extend they pressure ArenaNet. (Thoug not that extreme ... while the new chapters are every few months and for some it might feel fast ... for others it is slow. They probably could even go faster. Fortunately the festivals ... and Boss/Fracal/Champion Rush are there to fill up some tim as well.)

[voltaicbore.8012]

> @"Hypnowulf.7403" said:

 

> You could appeal to another audience. There's one country out there with a very large audience for online gaming that's quite economically stable: China. Isn't it interesting that the next expansion is going to Cantha? That's a very intelligent choice. I applaud it.

 

Uh, you _do_ realize that the reason we have a giant sinkhole in DR instead of the Canthan District is because the pan-Asian aesthetic ANet was going for in GW2 Canthan art didn't go over well with Asian audiences? I don't think this is a smart China-pandering move, I think it's a less smart nostalgia-pandering move.

 

If anything, I think they're just continuing what happened in PoF - the devs took us back to an area we've been to in GW1, and with the excuse that it's been ravaged by mismanagement and calamity, don't have to actually make things look all that shiny and cool. I expect Cantha to be much the same, albeit with less wide open spaces, and at least some attempt at a proper urban/metropolitan map.

 

As for anyone excited about revisiting storied areas of the past... just remember the side hallway we got when it came to Gandara. I advise you to temper your expectations.