Phantasmal Berserker (mainly PvP)

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

>

> > If clones become unkillable they will need to lose all their damage and condition application, so they can only be used as distractions and Shatter resources.

>

> Condi is fine, if it is nerfed for duration, which is not too bad.

Not it's not.

If clones can potentially exist infinitely because they can't be killed and the Mesmer doesn't shatter, they should be nothing but visual distraction.

If clones do even a single point of damage, there is no reason for them to be unkillable.

[Yoci.2481]

I don't think clones should be invulnerable, but they should be harder to kill in blob fights. Or perhaps bring back that old trait that makes clones do damage when they are killed.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

 

> Not it's not.

> If clones can potentially exist infinitely because they can't be killed and the Mesmer doesn't shatter, they should be nothing but visual distraction.

> If clones do even a single point of damage, there is no reason for them to be unkillable.

 

If clones cannot be targetted, it wouldn't matter.

It would mean if the Mesmer goes in and out of stealth or whatever, they will be the only entity which will accept targetting.

 

That alone will make them more vulnerable than they are now and easier to shutdown and kill.

Clones would then be just visual clutter on the screen since yu can't target them in any way.

 

In exchange for having Shatters which don't die on yu or Phantasms which don't waste themselves, this is just a small price to pay.

[Tseison.4659]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

>

> If clones cannot be targetted, it wouldn't matter.

> It would mean if the Mesmer goes in and out of stealth or whatever, they will be the only entity which will accept targetting.

>

> That alone will make them more vulnerable than they are now and easier to shutdown and kill.

> Clones would then be just visual clutter on the screen since yu can't target them in any way.

>

> In exchange for having Shatters which don't die on yu or Phantasms which don't waste themselves, this is just a small price to pay.

 

Never thought about the targeting which is a good point and I’ll also add that Anet wanting to create this I guess “Naruto clone jutsu” type of feel where our opponent is just gonna attack clones thinking it’s us, was and still is a complete fail because it simply doesn’t work.

 

The CLOSEST skill IN-GAME that I keep mentioning that we should’ve gotten was the White Mantle Mesmers “Defeat to reveal” skill where they’re essentially a clone themselves, taking all the damage and when you think they’ve killed them, they reappear and you get the real one.

 

THAT to me is what we should’ve gotten and just making all shatters go off on the Mesmer and that’s it. But anyways, making clones invulnerable I still agree is a balanced route since they don’t really deal damage and only inflict conditions/cc.

 

Though clearly that’s a problem for me which funnily enough is not a surprise to me when there’s other professions that are more overloaded AND they make it seem like Scourges Shades aren’t already invulnerable and inflict conditions/cc. Lol....so people’s argument of “oh invulnerable clones/phantasms, too op” is not enough for me.

[Kirrund.2654]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> >

> > > If clones become unkillable they will need to lose all their damage and condition application, so they can only be used as distractions and Shatter resources.

> >

> > Condi is fine, if it is nerfed for duration, which is not too bad.

> Not it's not.

> If clones can potentially exist infinitely because they can't be killed and the Mesmer doesn't shatter, they should be nothing but visual distraction.

> If clones do even a single point of damage, there is no reason for them to be unkillable.

 

Do you have any logical reasoning behind this? Clone damage is bad.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Kirrund.2654" said:

> > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > >

> > > > If clones become unkillable they will need to lose all their damage and condition application, so they can only be used as distractions and Shatter resources.

> > >

> > > Condi is fine, if it is nerfed for duration, which is not too bad.

> > Not it's not.

> > If clones can potentially exist infinitely because they can't be killed and the Mesmer doesn't shatter, they should be nothing but visual distraction.

> > If clones do even a single point of damage, there is no reason for them to be unkillable.

>

> Do you have any logical reasoning behind this? Clone damage is bad.

Just imagine clones can't be killed and will never die, if the Mesmer refuses to shatter.

The ones that apply conditions would be a permanent source of conditions with no way to get rid of them.

 

 

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Kirrund.2654" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > >

> > > > > If clones become unkillable they will need to lose all their damage and condition application, so they can only be used as distractions and Shatter resources.

> > > >

> > > > Condi is fine, if it is nerfed for duration, which is not too bad.

> > > Not it's not.

> > > If clones can potentially exist infinitely because they can't be killed and the Mesmer doesn't shatter, they should be nothing but visual distraction.

> > > If clones do even a single point of damage, there is no reason for them to be unkillable.

> >

> > Do you have any logical reasoning behind this? Clone damage is bad.

> Just imagine clones can't be killed and will never die, if the Mesmer refuses to shatter.

> The ones that apply conditions would be a permanent source of conditions with no way to get rid of them.

>

>

 

This! I'm all for clones being invulnerable, maybe targetable to keep up with the trickster theme, but with invulnerable messages so your opponent doesn't wail on them thinking it's you for too long - they should be a bit of a defense against your opponent though, to tank some hits for you until your enemy realizes it's not you i mean, that's what they're for. To trick your enemy. If you couldn't target them, then they don't need to look like you, they can just be orbs that you shatter and it wouldn't make a difference. They look like the mesmer because the point is for your opponent to hit them instead of you. If they can't target them, what's the point?

 

They should be on a timer though. Imagine taking Dueling for Sharper images, maxing out crit, then summon 3 clones to permanently harrass someone with no way of dealing with them while the mesmer abuses stealth to just wait out when the permanent uniterruptable condi spam kills your enemy.

 

If they're invulnerable (and they need to be), they need a timer. You either shatter them quickly or lose them. About 30 seconds, maybe 20 would be ok. Everything above that is not good.

[Yoci.2481]

What if it worked like this: Your clones aren't invulnerable and can be targeted and killed, but they will immediatly respawn until you shatter them, or if you get out of combat. That way we have a resource mechanic that can't be messed with, just like other classes.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Yoci.2481" said:

> What if it worked like this: Your clones aren't invulnerable and can be targeted and killed, but they will immediatly respawn until you shatter them, or if you get out of combat. That way we have a resource mechanic that can't be messed with, just like other classes.

 

Well at that rate they could just give pips for creating clones and not just for existing ones.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @"Yoci.2481" said:

> What if it worked like this: Your clones aren't invulnerable and can be targeted and killed, but they will immediatly respawn until you shatter them, or if you get out of combat. That way we have a resource mechanic that can't be messed with, just like other classes.

 

I think that would create a lot of mess in WvW blob fights. As clones would constantly getting killed/summoned while in enemy AOEs, and that would probably not be good for performance if there's 2+ mesmers around, getting exponentially worse with more than 2.

 

If a clone gets destroyed and just respawns, that means, 3 clones in WvW AOE spam will constantly be getting destroyed/respawned in place, wasting server resources and being generally useless to the mesmer as you can't send them to shatter them anywhere.

 

The only real solution is invulnerable targetable timed clones. They live for X amount of time and you either shatter or lose them.

Also, if they would be independent on your target, that would be great too. Right now, it's completely unreliable in WvW as you can't count on your target living to even summon 1 clone, and if you do, you have no use of it 90% of the time because your target dies before you can do anything about it and lose your clones.

Shatters need to be AOE targetable and clones independant of your target. Would also add more skill to playing the mesmer.

[Kencu.5846]

Make clones act more like the player. Make them dodge and use more than autoattack and make them signets and food etc. visible. And make them weaker. This way the enemy is forced to kill the clones to cripple the mesmer. Make a trait which replaces clones with a "charge" (like adrenaline) like skill and make F1-F3 aoe skills, like necro shades. So the mesmer can shatter the charged "energy" in aoe. It would work much better for WvW or even PvE. In PvP it could be an option to be a cloneless mesmer with aoe shatters.

 

"Phantasmal Force" could be changed like this.