Positive Things About Mirage?

[R E F L H E X.8413]

I> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> > @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> > I dont have much positive to say about it one weapon with three skills cant even interchange skills to power or condi replacements on the weapon set, like 4 new utilities that dont look great and require a traitline that has one good use (dodge cc) and the one class that could use an overhaul and benefit from having its f skills changed into something else is the one class thats remaining the same having to use clones and shatter them when a power build already doesnt support that gameplay very well like gs+sw/torch youre not a clone factory and would benefit from some kind of scourge/reaper makeover

>

> If you have nothing positive to say then don't post something negative lol, OP's point is to make a thread unlike all the other hate/constructive posts on here.

 

I didnt really test mirage at all just took a look at it during preview this mesmer is sad I could make two or three classes that are direct clones of gw1 mesmer into a new game and rename them things like phantom and psychic and people would think it was totally original ideas not knowing the inspiration came from gw1 thats how unique gw1 mes is from any other mmo including gw2 wtf happened? This game killing gw1 is a disaster.

[MailMail.6534]

There's _many _things to complain about in terms of Mirage or any elite spec for that matter, but I'm happy to see a thread attempting to highlight some of the things that can be appreciated about the elite spec:

* Mirage Cloak during important skill casts like Gravity Well, Heals, etc. Also stomping and rezzing.

* The amount of de-targeting you can get as a Mirage is appealing for niche play-styles of deception.

* The capabilities for an interesting high risk high reward condition build that can conceivably be played in varying tiers of PvP/PvE game play.

* The synergy between Phantasm Builds (Phantasmal Force) & Axes of Symmetry / Illusionary Ambush.

* The sheer amount of potential stunbreaks you have at your disposal with Elusive Mind.

* The sword Ambush is pretty amazing (too bad the others are garbage)!!

[FaboBabo.3581]

> @MailMail.6534 said:

> There's _many _things to complain about in terms of Mirage or any elite spec for that matter, but I'm happy to see a thread attempting to highlight some of the things that can be appreciated about the elite spec:

> * Mirage Cloak during important skill casts like Gravity Well, Heals, etc. Also stomping and rezzing.

> * The amount of de-targeting you can get as a Mirage is appealing for niche play-styles of deception.

> * The capabilities for an interesting high risk high reward condition build that can conceivably be played in varying tiers of PvP/PvE game play.

> * The synergy between Phantasm Builds (Phantasmal Force) & Axes of Symmetry / Illusionary Ambush.

> * The sheer amount of potential stunbreaks you have at your disposal with Elusive Mind.

> * The sword Ambush is pretty amazing (too bad the others are garbage)!!

 

Mirage Cloak during important skill casts like Gravity Well, Heals, etc. Also stomping and rezzing.....

Gravity Well is Chrono

[MailMail.6534]

I mean... Moa.

 

You caught me: I'll be playing Chrono. :#

[zealex.9410]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

 

> 3. False. 423Shatter GS is instantaneous, 223Shatter takes 1.75s as well as not spawning Illusions if the target moves away from your initial casting points.

 

Hows the gs burst instantaneous if i can interupt gs2 with gs3> @Esplen.3940 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > Are ppl really thinking Mirrage has less mobility then Chrono?

> > Ok we gotta go through it; On Paper Chrono has more movementspeed, but he reaches the bonus movespeed cap - > Traveler runes won't higher it.

> >

> > So lets put movespeed runes on Mirrage. Now we got the same movespeed in general. Now chrono has the 300 unit dodgeroll every 10 seconds. Mirrage has the 600 units sword ambush every 10 seconds. Chrono has Blink. Mirrage still has Blink too. Chrono has phase retreat. Mirrage has Phase retreat. Chrono has nothing more. Mirrage has Jaunt. Mirrage has Illusionary Ambush. Mirrage has Mirage advance.

> >

> > As long as your building for it (with movepseed runes) Mirrage will have 100% more mobility then Chrono.

> > If we DONT take Movespeed runes on Mirrage, we gotta go through a long Maths, im really not intereseted in.

> >

> > To finish ; Jumps/Blinks etc are in most cases the better movement then just running, which makes me very happing getting a lot of that, and not a boring 25% movement, which i could get from runes if im interested.

>

> Technically you have more mobility as a Chrono with CS.

> You can do 6 blinks with 2 utilities and a Staff.

>

> Mirage and Core Mesmer can't get anywhere close to that mobility.

>

> The rotation is: Mimic -> CS during aftercast (otherwise it will be on full CD, it has a long aftercast) -> Blink x1 or x2 -> Phase Retreat (as CS ends) -> (If Mimic is up Blink again) -> Phase Retreat + Mimic -> Blink x2

>

> [see video](

) for more details.

 

Oh yeah phase retreat cancers the return of cs. I could see that being fixed. And thats also a hoghly unrealistic and theoretical scenario outside of lets say map completion.

 

But some of these mirage also has acess to. Mimic 2 blinks, staff phase retreat, then jaunt and sword ambush. You can also cast aditional sword ambushes when having enough endurance or walk by a mirror (lets say the one from the ground target aoe that hardky hits anything).

 

 

[Esplen.3940]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> Hows the gs burst instantaneous if i can interupt gs2 with gs3

 

> Oh yeah phase retreat cancers the return of cs. I could see that being fixed.

 

It's instantaneous if executed properly.

Thus far, they've only fixed the fall damage, but that's because most fall damage abuses have been fixed (shroud, mainly).

It's a bit harder for them to fix the aftercast delay effects.

[zealex.9410]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> > @zealex.9410 said:

> > Hows the gs burst instantaneous if i can interupt gs2 with gs3

>

> > Oh yeah phase retreat cancers the return of cs. I could see that being fixed.

>

> It's instantaneous if executed properly.

> Thus far, they've only fixed the fall damage, but that's because most fall damage abuses have been fixed (shroud, mainly).

> It's a bit harder for them to fix the aftercast delay effects.

 

Well it clearly sound like unintentional capabilities and as many things so far on mesmer i highly expect this to be fixed sadly.

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

No matter the issues, I'm itching to play mirage right now! :D

 

Probably to do with the fact that I have a lot of time this weekend but going to be really busy next weekend... :(

[Conncept.7638]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> If you have nothing positive to say then don't post something negative lol, OP's point is to make a thread unlike all the other hate/constructive posts on here.

 

Okay, I'm _positive_ every unique mechanic added to not only the Mirage but also the Chronomancer was desperately needed on the base class just for its class mechanic to _function_ in most PvE environments.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

like some have said in either this thread or another thread hiding as a clone is kind of a failed idea I dont see why an elite spec out of two didnt makeover this class like necros or even theives/guards/rangers did getting new secondary mechanics or makeovers entirely that would help a little to keep old weaponsets not be as boring/old

[Esplen.3940]

> @Curunen.8729 said:

> :D

>

> Yeah I agree it is funny when raids are such a tiny portion of the game compared to all the rest of open world pve, all of wvw and all of pvp - in all of which a mix of shattering and illusion spam is perfectly fine and fun to play.

>

> Sure I can appreciate raid players want mesmer to be effective in raids, but it's still a small portion of the playerbase.

>

> Fractals are simply a loot grind - it's like work but I'd rather convert gems to gold or earn gold elsewhere unless farming for fractal specific gear such as fractal weapons. Just play any effective class and gain the loot, not like it matters.

 

I mean, there's no other PvE content where your build makes a difference.

You can do Vinewrath in full Sentinels gear running Chaos, Inspiration, and Domination.

You can do defeat Mordremoth while camping Greatsword in a Condi build.

You can kill the Karka Queen with only Racial utilities equipped.

You can beat Tequatl with only Banner strike.

 

WvW and s/tPvP are both PvP game modes, whereas PvE is not (really now?).

 

I wouldn't talk about player numbers without knowing. From a PvE perspective, any changes made for PvP (WvW or s/tPvP) is silly because it's a small portion of the playerbase. The same happens in reverse. You surround yourself with players who play similarly to you, of course you're not going to see players many players who play differently.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

>That was how original Mesmer was supposed to be played, but it never took off because you can (and will) be able to spot the real one after a single action.

 

Just spitballing, but why _can't_ clones just copy EVERY attack you make? Wouldn't that be cool, if not only mimicking your ambush skills, they also just do every attack you do, as you do it? Obviously their versions would need some tweaks, like the ones that generate clones wouldn't generate clones (which is already true of Scepter auto, right?), but this would make telling them apart much more complicated, if basically every time you hit 2, 3, 4, they would all use the same move as well. If they wanted to get really fancy with it, they could even program in bonus effects, like if you did the summon Phantasm move, obviously they wouldn't summon any Phantasms, but they would do the same animation and maybe for each one that does it, the Phantasm would get a buff, giving you good reason to wait until you had all your clones out.

 

>You do not want a non-ground target leap for JP's. However, the mobility on it is very nice.

 

That depends. It's risky, but speedrunners have been using Warrior sword leap forever to get across gaps.

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> > @Curunen.8729 said:

> > :D

> >

> > Yeah I agree it is funny when raids are such a tiny portion of the game compared to all the rest of open world pve, all of wvw and all of pvp - in all of which a mix of shattering and illusion spam is perfectly fine and fun to play.

> >

> > Sure I can appreciate raid players want mesmer to be effective in raids, but it's still a small portion of the playerbase.

> >

> > Fractals are simply a loot grind - it's like work but I'd rather convert gems to gold or earn gold elsewhere unless farming for fractal specific gear such as fractal weapons. Just play any effective class and gain the loot, not like it matters.

>

> I mean, there's no other PvE content where your build makes a difference.

> You can do Vinewrath in full Sentinels gear running Chaos, Inspiration, and Domination.

> You can do defeat Mordremoth while camping Greatsword in a Condi build.

> You can kill the Karka Queen with only Racial utilities equipped.

> You can beat Tequatl with only Banner strike.

>

> WvW and s/tPvP are both PvP game modes, whereas PvE is not (really now?).

>

> I wouldn't talk about player numbers without knowing. From a PvE perspective, any changes made for PvP (WvW or s/tPvP) is silly because it's a small portion of the playerbase. The same happens in reverse. You surround yourself with players who play similarly to you, of course you're not going to see players many players who play differently.

 

Just for the record, while I disagree regarding disregard for open world pve, I didn't thumbs down your post - just felt the need for clear conscience because this forum system doesn't make it clear anymore who thumbs up/thumbs down.

 

Anyway, from my point of view open world pve is the only pve I actually enjoy - and there's a lot of it in this game, more than any other content.

 

Yes I'm pulling numbers from the air regarding population in game modes, though I'd be surprised if casual pve/fractals doesn't significantly outnumber the number of players who raid.

 

Also I do respect raiders and do want mirage to be able to fulfill a role for them to enjoy, but I think the obsession with peak efficiency and min maxing might not be helping the situation when seemingly sub par builds and playstyles may be functional (ie half shatter half ambush with appropriate skill sequence to optimise damage output).

[Selendile.9106]

I like the concept, and the focus on obfuscation. Axe has some pathing issues, and the Clone Vs. Phantasm issue is a legitimate one. But some of the biggest issues can be band-aided with some number tweaks.

 

My Scepter+Torch Chaos/Illusions/Mirage Mesmer is looking forward to playing some sPvP. :)

[Ohoni.6057]

For the record, I always shatter in PvE, except when running Mirage, when I'm more likely to use one of the target-swapping powers where I can. One fundamental element to the Mesmer class that has never sat right with me is how you start at zero, then build up over the fight, but if the enemy you've been targeting dies, then you start at ground zero, even if there are still other enemies around. I would enjoy the Mesmer ten times better if it were designed so that clones would survive at minimum until you fell out of combat, regardless of which specific enemies died.

[Ithilwen.1529]

I just noticed something: you can trait to have your heal generate a "lesser chaos storm" which is an ethereal field. Remember the old "Napalm Cat?" burn Mesmer build?this could work the same with confusion + the ability to re target phants.. hmmm

[Shirlias.8104]

Best dodge so far!

BS + Cleansing

I love it ( i am not saying that the class is op, but just that i love the dodge ).

[R E F L H E X.8413]

Gsword ambush. Powerspike + gsword ambush + other gsword skills is really good ranged cleave. I don't see myself ever speccing chrono over this except for when I play some kind of bad powerblock build.

 

This would be really useful in wvw and I cant even try it there due to having to pve for the spec.

[tnhalbertsma.7682]

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> Gsword ambush. Powerspike + gsword ambush + other gsword skills is really good ranged cleave. I don't see myself ever speccing chrono over this except for when I play some kind of bad powerblock build.

>

> This would be really useful in wvw and I cant even try it there due to having to pve for the spec.

 

Yeah! If there's large groups of monsters, everything just dies within 3-5 seconds by hitting your abilities once while weaving some GS ambushes in between. Incredibly useful for tagging as well.

[Cantatus.4065]

I'm actually having way, way more fun with the Mirage than I originally anticipated. I've even started playing it in PvP, and I honestly think it's some of the most fun I've ever had playing it. There's something about the fast paced, on your toes playstyle that I really enjoy with how GW2's combat is set up. I feel like I have to be far more mobile than other classes I've tried, and there's a lot more paying attention to surroundings, but the more I'm getting that down, the more I'm understanding what they were going for with the class. And then there's the whole deception thing which is allowing me to play as an ambusher more effectively than I can with base Mesmer.

 

Some things I've picked up, and this is obviously very preliminary since I'm just experimenting as I go along (and the caveat that I haven't played around in fractals or raids):

* Survivability is a must. I think you could potentially get good enough with the class and it's movement requirements to dodge most of the big attacks, but for me at this point it's really risky to not have some stats aimed towards being able to eat some attacks. The Mirage runes suggest that Anet built this class with toughness in mind. Right now, I've been running Dire since I had a set I made for WvW on hand, but I think Rabid would also work well, especially if you're using Chaotic Transference (10% toughness to condi dmg). I haven't really played around with a power build nor done any dps comparisons.

* I like Axe as it adds mobility and has easy clone creation with Lingering Thoughts, but the leap ambush with sword far outweighs the illusionary axes. It seems like Axes of Symmetry _should_ accomplish the same thing (both are 600 range leaps), but AoS is incredibly unreliable since I frequently have it teleport me nowhere close to my target. (Seriously, go to the indestructible golem in the PvP lobby, stand at the bottom of the stairs, and see how many times you have to use AoS before you actually land anywhere near him.) If AoS worked properly, I could see it being a viable alternative to sword, and I'd really like to see that, though it's ambush still feels lackluster no matter how cool it looks.

* The sword ambush also doesn't require a target which means it can serve as mobility or an escape as well. That, plus a couple Jaunts can give you some good distance in a pinch.

* Unlike Blink, Mirage Advance does not require a clear path or even line of sight to teleport to your target. Illusionary Ambush doesn't either, but it suffers the same problem as AoS of not always putting you someplace useful.

* Though Illusionary Ambush does allow you to retarget your illusions. I've been trying to master switching my illusions to another target before it dies (though I'm unsure how useful this actually is since Mirage seems to be shatter focused).

* I've found I like having either staff or scepter in my 2nd set so I have a ranged option. Staff is also nice since Phase Retreat can serve as an additional dodge option.

 

That all being said, the class is obviously not perfect and still clunky in some ways, but I think the base design is something worth building off of. I'll definitely agree with the people who say Infinite Horizon should be a built into the class instead of a trait. That seems like a big part of what makes the class unique. I'm not even sure what Mirage really even is without it. I'm also disappointed that there's really no tie-in with our shatter abilities beyond taking Desert Distortion. The other class I mainly play is Guardian, and both Dragonhunter and Firebrand basically get completely new virtues with each that are a big part of what makes those classes unique. I mean the extra Vigor is nice, but surely they could've come up with something new with shatters. I would've at least liked to see another F5, even if it was just creating Mirage Mirrors.

 

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> like some have said in either this thread or another thread hiding as a clone is kind of a failed idea I dont see why an elite spec out of two didnt makeover this class like necros or even theives/guards/rangers did getting new secondary mechanics or makeovers entirely that would help a little to keep old weaponsets not be as boring/old

 

When I first read about Mirage, the idea of it being something where it allows you to hide as a clone sounded really cool. But, when you actually look at it in any sort of practicality, it quickly falls apart for obvious reasons. Synchronized ambush skills really aren't enough to fool someone. It's just a split second where you're all doing the same thing, but then you go back to acting like a player and they just continue to stand in the same place. using the same ability repeatedly.

 

But I'm not really sure that's how Mirage is supposed to play anyways. My approach in PvP has been more Three-Card-Monty-esque, It's not about trying to blend in with the other cards. It's about providing enough of a distraction so, even if they can identify where you are, they'll quickly lose you again. I look at Illusionary Ambush and AoS as shuffling the deck. They might've picked you out, but now you've broken their target and moved everything around. That's really the core of why I've been having so much fun in PvP. It's creating as much chaos as I possibly can. Perhaps people will be better able to counter this as they get used to Mirages, but right now I'm having an absolute blast.

[Ithilwen.1529]

I'm playing Mirage extensively in PvE hoping to take it to PvP at some point. *I find that I can substitute the Mirage trait line for Inspiration and get similar heal and better stun break/ condition removal.*

[atlashugged.7642]

I've been having more fun with mirage than chrono in pretty much every way I've played so far. Axe is probably the most fun weapon set on a mesmer now. Overall the class feels like a lot of what I wanted mesmer to be.

[Swagg.9236]

I really like the way Mirage flows with the Mirage Cloak, but there is a severe disconnect between every respective part which composes the whole. As people have said before, the utilities lack any real synergy with anything else the Mirage does, and most people forego them for other "meta" options. I could draw attention to the disjointed traits and Ambush skills as well, but I think the biggest disappointment is the Mirage Mirrors. They don't do anything. They're just "pick ups" on the field. That's a cute mechanic, but it mostly ends up feeling like a big waste of potential when they could easily be turned into support beacons or AoE dangers via traits.

 

Personally, I'd call for a huge re-work, including a little change-up to the shatter skills (just keeping them the same feels lazy and more wasted potential), but nobody ever supports such things. At least they got the most stylish elite skill in the game.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

I've always wanted to swap sword 3 for something more reliable. Axe 3 seemed to be a good alternate however its almost just as unreliable in this area when target is moving.

[atlashugged.7642]

> @"R E F L H E X.8413" said:

> I've always wanted to swap sword 3 for something more reliable. Axe 3 seemed to be a good alternate however its almost just as unreliable in this area when target is moving.

 

This is annoying, and a legitimate gripe. I hope in whatever changes they make, they make the Axe 3 more reliable.