Do People like PoF?

[moonstarmac.4603]

I always like running around for achievements and events on the new maps. I also like learning the lore as well. As far as Ascended gear, if you like fractals you can get some through a slightly different crafting method where you craft marks rather than outright crafting each piece.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > @Vayne.8563 said:

> > > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > > @Carighan.6758 said:

> > > > Well, the annoyed minority are always the loud ones. That is because happy people don't take to the forum to violently yell about how incredibly satisfied they are. Just doesn't happen. They're busy playing.

> > >

> > > Always a good laugh, since John Smedley, head of SOE at the time, said basically this during the SWG NGE fiasco which was one of the biggest disasters in MMO history (actually covered by the Wall Street Journal). He freely admits now that not listening to players then was one of the worst mistakes he ever made.

> > >

> > > I also remember a protracted forum war here over "perceived loot issues" early in the game where Champions seemed to be on the same loot table as common trash.

> > > We were called the "annoyed minority", chronic complainers, told that "happy people don't do forums" and all of the other boilerplate responses, as well as people stubbornly insisting the loot tables were "fine". We persisted, posted proofs, continued and that "annoyed minority" is one reason champs drop Chests now instead of a single porous bone. At times the "troublemakers" have a point.

> >

> > > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > > > @Carighan.6758 said:

> > > > Well, the annoyed minority are always the loud ones. That is because happy people don't take to the forum to violently yell about how incredibly satisfied they are. Just doesn't happen. They're busy playing.

> > >

> > > Always a good laugh, since John Smedley, head of SOE at the time, said basically this during the SWG NGE fiasco which was one of the biggest disasters in MMO history (actually covered by the Wall Street Journal). He freely admits now that not listening to players then was one of the worst mistakes he ever made.

> > >

> > > I also remember a protracted forum war here over "perceived loot issues" early in the game where Champions seemed to be on the same loot table as common trash.

> > > We were called the "annoyed minority", chronic complainers, told that "happy people don't do forums" and all of the other boilerplate responses, as well as people stubbornly insisting the loot tables were "fine". We persisted, posted proofs, continued and that "annoyed minority" is one reason champs drop Chests now instead of a single porous bone. At times the "troublemakers" have a point.

> >

> > One example out of thousands of complaints. Seem legit.

>

> Ah, Vayne. I'm sure that "your guild and everyone you know" feels the same. Yes, it is a single example, not a list. Are you maintaining that no other valid issues brought up on the forums ever resulted in change? It wouldn't surprise me. And now I will return to simply not responding to you. Have a nice day.

 

I'm saying that it's perfectly valid to assume more people complain than come to sing praises on any forum of any game. This is a valid belief. And it's possible if a bunch of people complain that they are a majority, but it's just as possible that they're a minority. Finally, listening to the playerbase is virtually impossible, since the playbase is so divided about so many things. It's very hard to find issues where the entire player base is in agreement, so listening to one side of the playerbase, in most cases, would denote not listening to other players.

 

Even with mounts, the vocal player base was largely against them, Anet did them anyway and now the player base is largely behind them. Everyone in my guild is not really relevant to this conversation All you need is basic, simple logic to see that listening to the playerbase is hardly possible in most cases, and the most vocal complaints aren't always valid or accurate.

[Svarty.8019]

> @Inoki.6048 said:

> The only thing that keeps a game interesting after one's completed all the PVE is a good competitive mode. You can see that in older titles like Warcraft 3. No one plays it for the PVE content, but even though support ended a long time ago people still play it competitively.

>

> Sadly the competitive scene of this game has sunk and even been cancelled by the likes of ESL. If only they understood the potential they have in WvW.

 

They saw the potential, but there are more players in PvE. More players equals more opportunity for $$$, which ~~justifies posh offices~~ makes black white, foul fair, Wrong right, base noble, old young, coward valiant Ha, you gods! why this? what this, you gods? Why, this Will lug your priests and servants from your sides, Pluck stout men's pillows from below their heads: This yellow slave Will knit and break religions, bless the accursed, Make the hoar leprosy adored, place thieves And give them title, knee and approbation With senators on the bench: this is it That makes the wappen'd widow wed again; She, whom the spital-house and ulcerous sores Would cast the gorge at, this embalms and spices To the April day again. Come, damned earth, Thou common whore of mankind, that put'st odds Among the route of nations, I will make thee Do thy right nature. (Timon of Athens)

[killermanjaro.5670]

> @wrathmagik.3518 said:

> Don't know what forum your on.

> Allot more people hate HOT.

>

> Theres been a lot polls and feedback. allot of people really love POF if anything.

 

There's no way of knowing if a lot more people hate one or the other. The amount of users that take part in polls, or post in threads with feedback on here is too small to tell anything, and far too small to tell if they represent that "a lot more people hate/like x".

 

I'd wager that the amount of forum users posting/voting here isn't even 1% of the active players. Even combining things like reddit it's probably only going to be a few percent at most.

[battledrone.8315]

pof has many problems, and in some ways, its even worse, than hot was

they have prolly made a decent buck on it, but it hasnt stopped the bleeding of players

it is a very weird expansion..some places its as friendly as the starter zones, other places its total hardcore

and, of course, it made it even more impossible to balance all the classes/elites

after pof, they will have a smaller, even more divided playerbase

[Vyrulisse.1246]

A lot of us didn't expect so much non-repeatable content. Story and one-time stuff in an MMO is fine but when there's nothing at the end repeatable and what little there is of it insults the players with mistakes we thought were learned from back in Heart of Thorns (rewards vs time and effort spent) it rubs a lot of us the wrong way. No true meta event, not even a world boss etc... just a lot of issues that need cleaning up and they shouldn't need it since Heart of Thorns had the same issues with rewards and was fixed.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> We were called the "annoyed minority", chronic complainers, told that "happy people don't do forums" and all of the other boilerplate responses, as well as people stubbornly insisting the loot tables were "fine". We persisted, posted proofs, continued and that "annoyed minority" is one reason champs drop Chests now instead of a single porous bone. At times the "troublemakers" have a point.

 

Champions drop chests because nobody was killing them and Anet added rewards to them for that reason. Complaints that are then validated by in-game statistics will force changes. Keep in mind that Champions were the only source of Bloodstone Dust (a key component in Ascended crafting) at the time of that change, Champion loot revamp happened with the same patch they introduced Ascended Weapons (the first Queen's Jubilee). Which, coincidentally, added a huge champion train/farm zone to the game (Pavilion) to set the stage for the rest of the game.

 

Nitpicking I know ^_^ but for the rest you are right complaints lead to many good changes for the game.

With the most recent one for example being this:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/13794/raid-mastery-wont-be-required-to-get-spirit-shards-anymore

Without people complaining who knows if they'd change it.

 

> @Vayne.8563 said:

> And it's possible if a bunch of people complain that they are a majority, but it's just as possible that they're a minority.

 

If all the complaints about Bounties not being run and not being rewarding enough aren't validated by in-game data (and instead thousands of players kill them daily) then Anet won't do anything about them no matter how many complain about it. If the complainers are right on the other hand, they will do something.

That's what a sensible company should be doing anyway. Not listen to someone who is complaining, without checking their data and doing some research first.

[Doam.8305]

I don't think people grasp the notion of people quitting

HoT had alot more hate and many more people quit but that doesn't detract from TC's statement at all

 

You poll early because over time those who are dissatisfied the so called vocal minority as people call it jump ship to something else. Polls taken later will be of those who weren't disturbed enough to quit so as time goes on the polls will always look brighter and brighter as people drop out of the pool. PoF is better than HoT so people liked it however its by no means perfect as people still have issues with the classes, rewards, and so forth and the amount of time that has passed means people would have left. Games been out for a awhile now and the balance patch is only happening next week so many people would hope it will be robust if not some people will use it as the final straw. Thus the pool shrinks some more as the polls may be brighter but many aren't around any longer or simply didn't vote as to reserve judgement as your avatar is one of the most important aspects of any MMO so this balnce patch is extrememly important.

[Carighan.6758]

> @Inoki.6048 said:

> The only thing that keeps a game interesting after one's completed all the PVE is a good competitive mode. You can see that in older titles like Warcraft 3. No one plays it for the PVE content, but even though support ended a long time ago people still play it competitively.

 

Ah yes, this was why WoW became so big and grew to 12 million subs by its second expansion, the strong arena mode. I forgot! :open_mouth: /s

[Witch of Doom.5739]

The people in my guild seem to love PoF, and I certainly do. Remember, happy players are off PLAYING, not whining on forums.

[PassionWhisky.3457]

PoF is Crap in my Oppinion. We get only the Mount´s ,Specs and Maps, but who the Pvp and WvW content, or new Fraktals and Raids? The Maps have no Meta Events, only last map i guess. Pvp Content from HoT ,we get the new Map , the Jungle Finishers (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finisher). Wvw content was the Desert Map (ya all People hate the Map), the reward Track, Pip System, Legendary Armor and little late Gliding. Think about it, PoF dont had enogh.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Most people like PoF, it has a great first impression. Unfortunately, there's not much to do once you finished it. No meaningful meta, no big boss. I really wonder sometimes what Anet ideas are: either they go full meta like in every single map in HoT or they do like NOTHING. What the hell? I mean why? Why not make both in one expansion? Diversity is the key. You never go full meta or no meta at all.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > We were called the "annoyed minority", chronic complainers, told that "happy people don't do forums" and all of the other boilerplate responses, as well as people stubbornly insisting the loot tables were "fine". We persisted, posted proofs, continued and that "annoyed minority" is one reason champs drop Chests now instead of a single porous bone. At times the "troublemakers" have a point.

>

> Champions drop chests because nobody was killing them and Anet added rewards to them for that reason. Complaints that are then validated by in-game statistics will force changes. Keep in mind that Champions were the only source of Bloodstone Dust (a key component in Ascended crafting) at the time of that change, Champion loot revamp happened with the same patch they introduced Ascended Weapons (the first Queen's Jubilee). Which, coincidentally, added a huge champion train/farm zone to the game (Pavilion) to set the stage for the rest of the game.

>

Yeah, that's why I said "one of the reasons" That long "perceived loot issues" thread was attempting to tell Anet why no one bothered with Champions. Prior to that patch. They eventually discovered that an earlier announced fix that "champions will always drop loot" had not taken at all, but they simply dismissed complaints for way too long. Without that announcement.. and no actual change, I doubt that as many would have complained. Even the title they made."Perceived loot issues" as if we were just seeing things.

 

[Razor.6392]

Content wise, aside from the gryphon, there really isn't much to do. If all new maps are out of the mix, and no new currencies or gated content (like legendaries) are around, then really that's all there is to do. Better resume your general gw2 activities pre-PoF (if you had them) or quit.

 

At least in HoT you were artificially forced to keep playing, even if it was to grind out mastery XP, deal with hard hero challenges, explore tedious (albeit beautifully designed, if that makes sense) maps, craft new legendaries, finish a LOT of new collections and map currency items. On top of the repeatable meta content, activities, etc.

[jheryn.8390]

My friends and I all love PoF. Not only did we play GW1 for years and enjoy the nostalgia, the story and maps are amazing.

 

I have seen plenty of threads where people actually like PoF, but as others have mentioned above, these forums seem to be the place for people who come to vent and voice their unhappiness. The forums are mostly skewed to the negative.

[Erulogos.2591]

I don't hate PoF, but it does seem to be running out of steam for me. HoT seemed to pick up some momentum as I unlocked masteries (advanced gliding made Verdant Brink into a new map for me) which is something PoF lacks a bit (mounts and masteries do open the maps more, but they are more accessible to begin with, so the difference is less obvious.) Also the metas could use something of a schedule. GW2 players seem to be schedule driven, and scheduled things like world bosses or HoT metas tend to be well attended, while randomly spawned events are often lonely affairs.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Teofa Tsavo.9863" said:

> > @Carighan.6758 said:

> > Well, the annoyed minority are always the loud ones. That is because happy people don't take to the forum to violently yell about how incredibly satisfied they are. Just doesn't happen. They're busy playing.

>

> Always a good laugh, since John Smedley, head of SOE at the time, said basically this during the SWG NGE fiasco which was one of the biggest disasters in MMO history (actually covered by the Wall Street Journal). He freely admits now that not listening to players then was one of the worst mistakes he ever made.

>

> I also remember a protracted forum war here over "perceived loot issues" early in the game where Champions seemed to be on the same loot table as common trash.

> We were called the "annoyed minority", chronic complainers, told that "happy people don't do forums" and all of the other boilerplate responses, as well as people stubbornly insisting the loot tables were "fine". We persisted, posted proofs, continued and that "annoyed minority" is one reason champs drop Chests now instead of a single porous bone. At times the "troublemakers" have a point.

 

This is a good point.

 

Even if, and I believe it, there is a negative posting bias on game forums, it doesnt mean that any specific, or all, negative posts are without merit.

 

It is the devs' jobs to sort through the chaff to find those complaints that truly need to be addressed. This is easier if multiple people are commenting on the same issue.

[Dashiva.6149]

If people enjoy mounts then they enjoy PoF, no? The maps seems to be one-and-done for most people, but the additions of mounts (and elite specs) has breathed some new life in Gw2 for me, both in new and old zones, so ultimatly I think PoF is a win.

[Dashingsteel.3410]

I personally didn't like a majority of HoT but really enjoy PoF. There are other players who prefer HoT to PoF. A blanket statement that people hate PoF or HoT is just ridiculous. Perhaps if you said a portion of the people who play this game hate PoF or HoT you would have been more accurate with your title.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

I don't hate PoF. I just find it boring. It's not interesting enough to instill me with strong emotions, like hate.

[Orpheal.8263]

I absolutely don't hate the current expansions, its absolutely the other way around. i love it. But howev,er I do also agree with the peop,e who say here, that Pof is completely unrewarding and kind of a one time experience, because theres is nothign left for you to do there, once you are through with the expansions story and most of its achievements, it offers absolutely no replayability, reasons for why peopel shoould continue to stay there, because older maps like silver wates or the Hot Maps are far more rewarding, than PoF... so its just logical, that people wil lreturn in masses back to these maps, if PoF doesn't become at least more equally rewarding - and personalyl I guess that just right the people Anet actually wanted, so that they will use basically (hopefiully) living world season two, to tweak the PoF maps with the season 4 content and make it through the livign world patches and its epiusodes more entertaining and rewarding as well, to give people plenty of reasons to play on those maps for a long time actively, or basicalyl permanently actively as well and do everything there, what the maps offers, from various events, to the bounty hunts, adventures and so on ...

 

People also hope, that we finally see sonn a proper balance patch, that will cut back the powercrrep from pof back to a sane normal level, especially with specs like Scourge, Spellbreaker and Mirage, which currently are just absurdly overpowered in certain cases and just show us more again ,how needy this game has it also as well to get a proper rebalance of all of its ignored combat mechanic core systems, especially Boons and Conditions for now the very most.

That the game hasn't seen yet for a logn time a proper balance patch is also a strognm reason for why so many peopel are displeased with PoF right now, cause poF is the reason whsy currently WvW and PvP has become even much more unfun to play with its overpowered new E-specs being now part of the game that can partwise already rip you apart, before you even realized that they are they!!!

GW's deve seem to still live in their self made dream of thinking, that GW2 players all have like reaction speeds of a lightning, by the kind of absurd damage bursts that this game has by now, that they still sem to think ,that its fun if you have combats end in seconds, without that you ever actually had a chance to do aynthign or to react on your enemy, because you got already spammed with conditions and hard cc skills already to death, before the battle even actually had started at all, because all you need to do nowadays is just performing one good burst attack and hope you hit your foe with it, and players are either already downed a few hits later already, or directly downed, if you hit a glass cannon player, cause this games health system is so outdated by now, that its not funny anymore!!! However, thats a different topic ...

 

I simply think we as community need to be more patient here with Anet and that the content of PoF surely wil lgrreatly improve and brign peiopel to return to PoF maps, once the next living world season 4 starts and addresses then the issues of PoF through new added content.

[pah.4931]

Why are you looking for people to convince you to play this game? There are a bazillion games to play -- have at it, hass. I play this game because I love MMOs and persistent worlds but don't have the time to justify a sub fee and I like being to hop on and play for a bit and have fun. You should have your own reasons why you play the games you play. and enjoy what you enjoy.

[otto.5684]

I am in the really disappointed in PoF camp. I was hoping that PoF maps combine the experience of all previous content and expansion, to create experience immersive experience. I guess that is a fancy way of saying: create interesting hearts, interesting (and not too long) events together with new fun mastries and good+interesting lore.

 

From that prescriptive, PoF maps were nothing more than a shallow experience. Lots of spectacle, but once you start to dig deeper, not much is there. It sure had a strong first impression on most people, since the maps were designed to be appealing. But the spectacle is now wearing off, since there is more into the maps than riding a mount and jumping around.

 

PoF maps are surely a design that should neither be replicated or followed in the future.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

There have been many positive reviews, opinions and remarks about Path of Fire. Personally, I loved the expansion, the beautiful maps and versatile mounts. I also fount the expansion to be a bit more friendly than Heart of Thorns, where my first experience was mostly getting oneshotted by big angry dino's.

[notebene.3190]

I really enjoy it. I seem to make pretty good money there when I'm playing, so I haven't figured out that argument yet. I repeat hearts with same/different characters. Still working on some specializations. I like doing map completion for all my alts. I jump in bounties from time to time, come to the call of people trying to do some DEs that count towards things they are working on (griffon, spec collections, et al). Besides all the UNIDs that turn into money, whether you salvage directly or open first, I get quite a few of the trash items that sell for good money. Had a few of those 1g items today. Handful of 50s ones.

 

I 'kinda' get the meta argument, but I've come to realize it's more pyschological than anything. Rather than waiting 2 hours to do something in 15 minutes and then go open a lot of shiny chests. I get the same kind of rewards, or more, from all the UNIDs I get running around PoF on my own time, hooking up with people on and off. And those junk items that sell for a pretty penny. It's not as 'mentally' rewarding not getting to open big chests while hero music plays, I guess.

 

But for me, the trick is that 'both' still exist: HoT and PoF. If I want to open big shiny chests, I do an AB (try to do one very day). Sometimes I like doing Dragon's Stand just because it's fun. It's still there. Or the day/night cycle of VB. Or sometimes I feel like doing lighter fair and DEs and racing and other activities, or repeatable hearts, or working on some achievements, and there's PoF, complete with zones specifically designed to use all the mount skills and masteries. And I still do a small WB tour every day in the old lands. I'd do map clears in the old world, but I don't have any newbie characters any more, and my '9' have all done map completion already.

 

And I still spend some time in a few LW3 maps. I've come to 'really' enjoy 'Bloodstone Fen', of all places. I love the gliding combat skills, and that's the only place to do that.

 

So, PoF is PoF. It's one set of many great things to do. I don't think of it as a competition. It's 'more of not-the-same'.