Nemesis.7896 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @xDudisx.5914 said: > No amount of condi clear is enough to melee a scourge. Even water triple cantrip ele with diamond skin cant clear fast enough. The only thing that could survive was spellbreaker pre nerf with nearly perma resistance (which was op and got nerfed). Yeah and now we're meat because of full melee without survivability. Your opinion is childish and emotionnal, not analytic , like the spellbreaker nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirin.7306 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 I love how the aoes just stay there and do insane damage while my poor "chocking gas" does eff all damage unless you stand in it and i recast 8+ times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @Kirin.7306 said: > I love how the aoes just stay there and do insane damage while my poor "chocking gas" does eff all damage unless you stand in it and i recast 8+ times I love how one day Anet decided that BP is too OP and nerfed it.... meanwhile same devs decided scourges are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @Justine.6351 said: > 99% chance they are likely doing rework on scourge currently. I sincerely hope so, scourge is currently stupidly strong against most classes, heaven help you if you rely on going melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @intox.6347 said: > > @coro.3176 said: > > > > > > Example. > > > > Instant 8 condi just for being near melee range of a scourge. There's basically no way to avoid that other than "don't get within x units of a scourge" and that makes for unfun gameplay, which is what people are complaining about in this thread. > > > > Why is an instant pbaoe (bombing with EIGHT conditions and corrupting boons) more deadly than a huge slow wind up attack like Executioner's Scythe? > > As i see you appear in enemy backline... in time when scourges put some shades... also start spamming Fspam, u have been in range of self shade spam.. so u eat it atleast from 2 scourges ( i saw 4 of them) . Scourge is not strongest range... but its easy one to play ... so easy pick for pvers, newbies or lazy ppl. > > Also i will not go into big group fights with roaming zerk holo build.. u cant take much in that ... > > Im playing mostly wvw (80% of time) and after nerf number of scourges is lowered... im now playing more hammer backline rev... CoR build... that dmg u doing to scourges is too big for them to sustain... > Also SB after nerf still strong... resistence and WoD ..... > And when i watched some videos from chinese wvw... they playing full range... they have in each party like 25+ hammer revs and just range bombing :D i played hammer rev also its tru u blow up scourge, but so many meta tools wont switch class if u had few revs they'd blow up half this meta with power build.. none the less i have already taken my break from gw2 waiting for this shitty condition meta to pass.. never been fan of condi's and i just cant stand it anymore when roaming and every fool u meet is blowing 10 condi on ur ass instantly and constantly reapply em.. nope thnx im out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 > @reddie.5861 said: > > @intox.6347 said: > > > @coro.3176 said: > > > > > > > > > Example. > > > > > > Instant 8 condi just for being near melee range of a scourge. There's basically no way to avoid that other than "don't get within x units of a scourge" and that makes for unfun gameplay, which is what people are complaining about in this thread. > > > > > > Why is an instant pbaoe (bombing with EIGHT conditions and corrupting boons) more deadly than a huge slow wind up attack like Executioner's Scythe? > > > > As i see you appear in enemy backline... in time when scourges put some shades... also start spamming Fspam, u have been in range of self shade spam.. so u eat it atleast from 2 scourges ( i saw 4 of them) . Scourge is not strongest range... but its easy one to play ... so easy pick for pvers, newbies or lazy ppl. > > > > Also i will not go into big group fights with roaming zerk holo build.. u cant take much in that ... > > > > Im playing mostly wvw (80% of time) and after nerf number of scourges is lowered... im now playing more hammer backline rev... CoR build... that dmg u doing to scourges is too big for them to sustain... > > Also SB after nerf still strong... resistence and WoD ..... > > And when i watched some videos from chinese wvw... they playing full range... they have in each party like 25+ hammer revs and just range bombing :D > > i played hammer rev also its tru u blow up scourge, but so many meta tools wont switch class if u had few revs they'd blow up half this meta with power build.. > none the less i have already taken my break from gw2 waiting for this kitten condition meta to pass.. > > never been fan of condi's and i just cant stand it anymore when roaming and every fool u meet is blowing 10 condi on ur kitten instantly and constantly reapply em.. > nope thnx im out. I get the feeling we’ve been here before some how, can’t quite place my finger on what we called the meta, pirate chips? No, parrot ships? No not it either...it’ll come back to me I’m sure, just like all those people that ditched the game entirely because of that meta causing servers to be merged will likely come back. Hope you find whatever you’re looking for in your travels to other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToPNoP.2493 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 The best way to nerf scourge would be to shorten the distance that they can throw their circles. I mean, no one in wvw will push because the scourge is like a superior arrow cart on steroids. one or two are manageable, but if the opposing team has 10 or more, then they can not be pushed at all. So, people just stand away from the fight and hope one opposing player gets impatient enough to come close and get stunned, then every range class will leap on that one person and the poor dieing guys zerg will run the other direction. They know if they try to help that 3 or 4 scourges will melt them in seconds, with the help of whatever rangers are around. The result is dead borderlands, collapsing guilds, and an overall dissatisfaction with game play. I am definitely not against the scourge, but its dominance is probably from one anet pen pusher wanting more money from try hard players building the least played classes armor. Or some nerd that believes magic should beat brawn because dungeons and dragons is that way... This is an alltime low for wvw zerg v zerg battles. Frankly I am surprised there are wvw guilds at all due to this, or not more scourge only guilds. The old zerg busting guilds are dead, no one can bust a zerg with less numbers, op is just a button that throws one circle, and the clueless can melt the practiced too easy when in group. If a zerg was running only scourges, nothing, I mean nothing in this game could stop it. It seems like anet wants scourge only guilds and zergs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 The problem isn't this or that profession. The problem is systematic. They made changes so players could all participate equally in boss fights. And for some reason they let those changes apply to player vs player too. We need fundamental changes in the mechanics so it is not possible for one player to do too much damage in too little time to any other player, and so spamming stuff on recharge isn't nowhere near as efficient as using them at the right time. Until the underlying mechanics are adressed, this will be balance wack-a-mole. Change one thing, another one pops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToPNoP.2493 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I agree, but anet should have programmers smart enough to see pvp teams with 2 scourges, and nothing else that can match. Or one team gets 2 scourges and the other has one, therefore the team with 2 wins. I mean, wvw and pvp are the same. Whiskey tango foxtrot, these guys must be savant. Capable of one task but wholly unable to see the bigger picture. Or maybe they say, what does it matter? Well yea, they are rich. So what is pleasing a general community over what makes the bigger dollars? I think corporate will be corporate and the game will be milked killing off the older player base and sponging from the new,. And the new are unable to see how good this game used to be therefore they know no better and play scourge, or try to 10v1 in roaming because all the good roamers left. It is malicious if you think about it. I see what you are saying though, there is one stamp for all games. But this is 3 games, not one. Its prime time and all the maps in wvw on sbi are ghost towns... Nice meta Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xDudisx.5914 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 For a dev how hard os to make something viable in pve anyway? Just give some sort of unique buff like banners/spotter for necro and they win a free slot on every group. Maybe a power aoe buff every time you use a shade skill. Those flat power buffs are meh in pvp, but op in pve. Pve balance is easy compared to pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @apharma.3741 said: > > @Justine.6351 said: > > 99% chance they are likely doing rework on scourge currently. > > I sincerely hope so, scourge is currently stupidly strong against most classes, heaven help you if you rely on ghttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/categories/wvwoing melee. What if ANet does not want melee to be efective???? SO... they can sell next OP melee gimmick on tnext excpantion... on 1 class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirin.7306 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 > @Sovereign.1093 said: > anet should separate wvw from pve. like toughness for power damage mitigation, introduce something similar to mitigate condi That will just kill condition users that are not mesmer/necro. jsut change their damage numbers. How hard can it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trajan.4953 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 LOL Wait... Kovu still plays this game???? Mind Blown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takatsu.9416 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 If 1v1 against scourge it would be ok but in any group or zerg especially when they stack, as soon as a player is in one of the aoes, you're instant dead, I've seen entire groups wipe because of the constant scourge overlapping coverage. I've seen enough cases where scourges carry a group and downing their opponents even when all their other classes were dropping and their group skill was not very adequate. If scourges were glass cannons to pump out that kind of damage that makes sense just like any other glass build for damage. But scourges don't go down fast at all and are sometimes the last class standing even when all their DPS classes are down and can still sway the fight. I think this is an indication of class issues. That said, 1v1 is ok to deal with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @Trajan.4953 said: > LOL Wait... Kovu still plays this game???? > > Mind Blown Heh, yeah, like twice per week. I've been chillin on FA. I hear news about getting the old team back together. =) Anywho, this page, though. - Yes I still play this game. - No, I'm not a pve player. - No, my main isn't necro, its ranger. - Yes, I'm tired of the wvw subforum being full of salty people screaming for nerfs in regards to mechanics they don't understand. I eat necros for breakfast on my ranger. They are tasty. They're in fact one of the _easiest_ classes to kill. Its fun picking them off in wvw because their defenses and mobility are garbage, but often I'm told to get off my ranger in larger fights for other reasons. That said, no I don't like the current meta. Its not the conditions that necros can put out, its the boon stripping of both scourges and spellbreakers that has turned wvw zerg fights into a flush fest. If we're going to kick and scream at anet for not nerfing things that are out of control, at least pick the correct things to nerf. On a related note, I mean to give power reaper a try at some point, thanks to the buffs. Anyone got any feedback on that in a zerg environment post patch? ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bish.8627 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @Swamurabi.7890 said: > Here's a scary thought for all you scourge haters out there. > > Scourge, Reaper and Necro are trash tier in PvE raids. > The Necro family will need to get huge buffs in order to become meta in raids. > **WvW uses PvE skills**. > > Do you really believe Anet balance team reads WvW forums? > > Just something to think about. Wouldn't worry about that. Recent poll on here showed a tiny portion of the player base raids compared to quite a sizable WvW community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmau.9781 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @intox.6347 said: > > @coro.3176 said: > > > > > > Example. > > > > Instant 8 condi just for being near melee range of a scourge. There's basically no way to avoid that other than "don't get within x units of a scourge" and that makes for unfun gameplay, which is what people are complaining about in this thread. > > > > Why is an instant pbaoe (bombing with EIGHT conditions and corrupting boons) more deadly than a huge slow wind up attack like Executioner's Scythe? > > As i see you appear in enemy backline... in time when scourges put some shades... also start spamming Fspam, u have been in range of self shade spam.. so u eat it atleast from 2 scourges ( i saw 4 of them) . Scourge is not strongest range... but its easy one to play ... so easy pick for pvers, newbies or lazy ppl. > > Also i will not go into big group fights with roaming zerk holo build.. u cant take much in that ... > > Im playing mostly wvw (80% of time) and after nerf number of scourges is lowered... im now playing more hammer backline rev... CoR build... that dmg u doing to scourges is too big for them to sustain... > Also SB after nerf still strong... resistence and WoD ..... > And when i watched some videos from chinese wvw... they playing full range... they have in each party like 25+ hammer revs and just range bombing :D WOW! that is so fun such an amazing meta, i can t wait to log and play any of those builds, who could resist to a condi scourge an heal firebrand or an hammer ravenant!!?? it is very fun to stay ranged and spam 1111111 in front, to be honest i would have give the 2017 game of the year award to Gw2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @ilmau.9781 said: > > @intox.6347 said: > > > @coro.3176 said: > > > > > > > > > Example. > > > > > > Instant 8 condi just for being near melee range of a scourge. There's basically no way to avoid that other than "don't get within x units of a scourge" and that makes for unfun gameplay, which is what people are complaining about in this thread. > > > > > > Why is an instant pbaoe (bombing with EIGHT conditions and corrupting boons) more deadly than a huge slow wind up attack like Executioner's Scythe? > > > > As i see you appear in enemy backline... in time when scourges put some shades... also start spamming Fspam, u have been in range of self shade spam.. so u eat it atleast from 2 scourges ( i saw 4 of them) . Scourge is not strongest range... but its easy one to play ... so easy pick for pvers, newbies or lazy ppl. > > > > Also i will not go into big group fights with roaming zerk holo build.. u cant take much in that ... > > > > Im playing mostly wvw (80% of time) and after nerf number of scourges is lowered... im now playing more hammer backline rev... CoR build... that dmg u doing to scourges is too big for them to sustain... > > Also SB after nerf still strong... resistence and WoD ..... > > And when i watched some videos from chinese wvw... they playing full range... they have in each party like 25+ hammer revs and just range bombing :D > > WOW! that is so fun such an amazing meta, i can t wait to log and play any of those builds, who could resist to a condi scourge an heal firebrand or an hammer ravenant!!?? > > it is very fun to stay ranged and spam 1111111 in front, to be honest i would have give the 2017 game of the year award to Gw2 To be fair, hammer rev is 2.....2....2..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmau.9781 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > @intox.6347 said: > > > > @coro.3176 said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Example. > > > > > > > > Instant 8 condi just for being near melee range of a scourge. There's basically no way to avoid that other than "don't get within x units of a scourge" and that makes for unfun gameplay, which is what people are complaining about in this thread. > > > > > > > > Why is an instant pbaoe (bombing with EIGHT conditions and corrupting boons) more deadly than a huge slow wind up attack like Executioner's Scythe? > > > > > > As i see you appear in enemy backline... in time when scourges put some shades... also start spamming Fspam, u have been in range of self shade spam.. so u eat it atleast from 2 scourges ( i saw 4 of them) . Scourge is not strongest range... but its easy one to play ... so easy pick for pvers, newbies or lazy ppl. > > > > > > Also i will not go into big group fights with roaming zerk holo build.. u cant take much in that ... > > > > > > Im playing mostly wvw (80% of time) and after nerf number of scourges is lowered... im now playing more hammer backline rev... CoR build... that dmg u doing to scourges is too big for them to sustain... > > > Also SB after nerf still strong... resistence and WoD ..... > > > And when i watched some videos from chinese wvw... they playing full range... they have in each party like 25+ hammer revs and just range bombing :D > > > > WOW! that is so fun such an amazing meta, i can t wait to log and play any of those builds, who could resist to a condi scourge an heal firebrand or an hammer ravenant!!?? > > > > it is very fun to stay ranged and spam 1111111 in front, to be honest i would have give the 2017 game of the year award to Gw2 > > To be fair, hammer rev is 2.....2....2..... > > > sorry, i deleted my rev an half year ago coz it was dead boring so i do not remember well what key i had to press to loot my bags :dizzy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intox.6347 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 > @ilmau.9781 said: > WOW! that is so fun such an amazing meta, i can t wait to log and play any of those builds, who could resist to a condi scourge an heal firebrand or an hammer ravenant!!?? > > it is very fun to stay ranged and spam 1111111 in front, to be honest i would have give the 2017 game of the year award to Gw2 Try it :) Its more like playing old pistol thief mixed with longbow ranger, staff ele... but with bigger dps. If you play full dps backline rev, its not that bad ... risky and rewarding, u cant go into condi bombs, u need to avoid pushing to choke points... if i compare when i play my trailblazer scourge ... u can play like tank... u can dive into zerg and spam crap ... deal dmg and stay alive with no problem... mostly loot picker build and got bored by that. Build im using now mostly.... hammer rev, minstrel auramancer tempest, minstrel ventari, cele firebrand (boring for me), trailblazer scourge (boring but effective), marauder core ele, zerk SB, power shatter mirage .. i dont like old times when 40% of zerg were guards, 20% hammer wars, + other.... now its more versatile, also ppl learn what to use and more and more experienced ppl playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umut.5471 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 PoF builds brought burning and condi spam meta back. I think they have to make power builds have equal DPS like before. I'm OK with condition builds, but condition as a high DPS meta is annoying. DPS output should be balanced, that's what I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 lets all run scourge only squads =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmau.9781 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 > @intox.6347 said: > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > WOW! that is so fun such an amazing meta, i can t wait to log and play any of those builds, who could resist to a condi scourge an heal firebrand or an hammer ravenant!!?? > > > > it is very fun to stay ranged and spam 1111111 in front, to be honest i would have give the 2017 game of the year award to Gw2 > > Try it :) Its more like playing old pistol thief mixed with longbow ranger, staff ele... but with bigger dps. If you play full dps backline rev, its not that bad ... risky and rewarding, u cant go into condi bombs, u need to avoid pushing to choke points... if i compare when i play my trailblazer scourge ... u can play like tank... u can dive into zerg and spam crap ... deal dmg and stay alive with no problem... mostly loot picker build and got bored by that. > Build im using now mostly.... hammer rev, minstrel auramancer tempest, minstrel ventari, cele firebrand (boring for me), trailblazer scourge (boring but effective), marauder core ele, zerk SB, power shatter mirage .. i dont like old times when 40% of zerg were guards, 20% hammer wars, + other.... now its more versatile, also ppl learn what to use and more and more experienced ppl playing. with mallyx you got perma resistence, there is no thing such condi bomb with a ravenant :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napo.1230 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 > @ilmau.9781 said: > > @intox.6347 said: > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > WOW! that is so fun such an amazing meta, i can t wait to log and play any of those builds, who could resist to a condi scourge an heal firebrand or an hammer ravenant!!?? > > > > > > it is very fun to stay ranged and spam 1111111 in front, to be honest i would have give the 2017 game of the year award to Gw2 > > > > Try it :) Its more like playing old pistol thief mixed with longbow ranger, staff ele... but with bigger dps. If you play full dps backline rev, its not that bad ... risky and rewarding, u cant go into condi bombs, u need to avoid pushing to choke points... if i compare when i play my trailblazer scourge ... u can play like tank... u can dive into zerg and spam crap ... deal dmg and stay alive with no problem... mostly loot picker build and got bored by that. > > Build im using now mostly.... hammer rev, minstrel auramancer tempest, minstrel ventari, cele firebrand (boring for me), trailblazer scourge (boring but effective), marauder core ele, zerk SB, power shatter mirage .. i dont like old times when 40% of zerg were guards, 20% hammer wars, + other.... now its more versatile, also ppl learn what to use and more and more experienced ppl playing. > > with mallyx you got perma resistence, there is no thing such condi bomb with a ravenant :D Perma resistance? You mean a few seconds max which pulls all your parties condis to you? or do you mean the actual reality of 0 seconds due to it getting instantly corrupted and you are left to dealwith all of the condis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babazhook.6805 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 The Scourge in a 1v1 is more than just a little manageable. Just stay at range and kite. Where it problematic is in group play and fighting on a point wherein the scourge just parks and teams of them just stack up the AOE . I can also deal with what is called "condition spam" as long as it a 1v1. When it is condition spam sourced from Ranged and persistent AOE it a different matter and I think this lies at the heart of the problem. If power damage is being applied VIA AOE it generally can be tailored to apply an amount of damage deemed reasonable via the Dam age factor number of the given skill. Added to that the range of something like the cleave is much more reasonable and there counters to things like DH traps (dodge through to trigger etc). AOE condition , and specifically the persistent fields with either range or a larger radius can really not apply less damage. There is no Damage factor like an individual weapon that can be tailored. A stack of torment off AOE hits just as hard as a stack of torment off a 1v1 attack via a given weapon skill. When it comes to Persistent AOE fields that have a wide radius and or can be applied from range , the means by which they are balanced is to ensure there LESS stacks of a given condition applied over a given period of time. When this number is out of whack everything is out of whack. For those AOE type fields that apply conditions, the number of pulses needs to be addressed along with conditions applied per pulse. AOE type attacks do not even require a target and can saturate entire areas. They are much harder to block or avoid and should not be applying damage that on par with the attacks that target a single individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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