Baldrick.8967 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 It won't be nerfed any time soon- as they don't balance around wvw at all. Maybe if a scourge solo'd a raid boss, then it would be nerfed within a week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jski.6180 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 > @Baldrick.8967 said: > It won't be nerfed any time soon- as they don't balance around wvw at all. Maybe if a scourge solo'd a raid boss, then it would be nerfed within a week... You got to make a video on it too! Rip trap thf hehe. Scourge compared to the other necro classes will ways be stronger due to how it uses life foces or its mana. Scourge gets to use it mana to cast shields unlike the other necro class where they use there mana for shields. That and Scourge has effect 5 more spells that the other necro classes must wait on a cd to be able to use and the lack of cast time on the Scourge spells goes a long way to braking the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthirten.6475 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Honestly I don't think it's that scourge is OP in its own right. I think the issue is that it's one of the few good DPS damage classes. I play a lot of firebrand and they are OP in terms of defense. But just like everything, they both require team support. I really just think some of the other DPS classes need a buff. I personally am trying to do weaver backline but you literally just die to all dps sources. Scourge not only loses their shroud, but they also make it easier to condi clear since half their shit turns into torment. That being said, I do play scourge and the one thing I find OP is that shades can't be removed or projectile blocked. I don't know how I would remedy this but it is definitely a consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 > @matthirten.6475 said: > Honestly I don't think it's that scourge is OP in its own right. I think the issue is that it's one of the few good DPS damage classes. I play a lot of firebrand and they are OP in terms of defense. But just like everything, they both require team support. I really just think some of the other DPS classes need a buff. I personally am trying to do weaver backline but you literally just die to all dps sources. > > Scourge not only loses their shroud, but they also make it easier to condi clear since half their kitten turns into torment. > > That being said, I do play scourge and the one thing I find OP is that shades can't be removed or projectile blocked. I don't know how I would remedy this but it is definitely a consideration. than i have GREAT NEWS for you!!! you can hide behind a blade of grass to make shades obstructed. you DONT NEED blocks or projectile reflect or anything else. you just need your own brace to be safe. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swadow.6213 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I would be okay with nerfing condi Scourge, but only if the core power builds are given compensation. Necromancer needs to have access to proper defensive options like blocking, evades and some god damn mobility. Having twice the healthbar really does not matter when the current amount of damage being dished within one rotation is more than that. And it would also help necro in PvE to give the core some damn options. Right now the only real option for necro is MH Scepter+OH Torch+Staff or MH Axe+random since all OH options suck+Staff/GS. Not to mention 75% of healing, about 50% and all core elites are unusable in pretty much all situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolguy.8702 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Swadow.6213 said: > I would be okay with nerfing condi Scourge, but only if the core power builds are given compensation. Necromancer needs to have access to proper defensive options like blocking, evades and some god kitten mobility. Having twice the healthbar really does not matter when the current amount of damage being dished within one rotation is more than that. And it would also help necro in PvE to give the core some kitten options. Right now the only real option for necro is MH Scepter+OH Torch+Staff or MH Axe+random since all OH options suck+Staff/GS. Not to mention 75% of healing, about 50% and all core elites are unusable in pretty much all situations True, core nec is very bad compared to its elites, but its also way tankier. Maybe they can add a block or immune to damage type of skill in its shroud or some utilities scourge won't use. They can also rework dark path to how it was in beta make it a blink type of teleport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swadow.6213 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Coolguy.8702 said: > True, core nec is very bad compared to its elites, but its also way tankier. Maybe they can add a block or immune to damage type of skill in its shroud or some utilities scourge won't use. They can also rework dark path to how it was in beta make it a blink type of teleport Not really, core and reaper are not really tanky due to the way damage numbers have been inflated to ridiculous numbers to make raid encounters possible. Taking a hit to the face is always going to be less tanky than blocking that hit when each hit can reach half of one's healthbar even when stacking vitality. Not to mention in sPvP and raid without adds situations necromancer has really garbage life force generation. Dagger MH has somewhat decent generation but is melee and all of the other skills on dagger suck majorly. The biggest life force generation in WvW is through kills, in sPvP through spectral armour. There is a reason why Soul Reaping is a necessity for any necro build these days and it is mostly to counter the horrendous life force generation options. You could compare it to mesmers having access to 1 clone or phantasm in any set they happen to use with 15 second cooldown. Mesmers would be losing their mind over having so little access to their main profession mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzozef.9841 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 It's not Scourge that's the problem, they already got nerf via fix from Shade Stacking, which is undone. They still good wvw/pvp, but totally knocked off complete in any pve content. It's CONDITIONS that are the problem. Until Conditions as a whole gets addressed, it doesnt matter what you do with Scourge, conditions need to be addressed period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Zero.3871 said: > > @matthirten.6475 said: > > Honestly I don't think it's that scourge is OP in its own right. I think the issue is that it's one of the few good DPS damage classes. I play a lot of firebrand and they are OP in terms of defense. But just like everything, they both require team support. I really just think some of the other DPS classes need a buff. I personally am trying to do weaver backline but you literally just die to all dps sources. > > > > Scourge not only loses their shroud, but they also make it easier to condi clear since half their kitten turns into torment. > > > > That being said, I do play scourge and the one thing I find OP is that shades can't be removed or projectile blocked. I don't know how I would remedy this but it is definitely a consideration. > > than i have GREAT NEWS for you!!! you can hide behind a blade of grass to make shades obstructed. you DONT NEED blocks or projectile reflect or anything else. you just need your own brace to be safe. :D Just like a 50k JD right ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Scourge does not need nerfing. It needs a rework (I doubt this will happen). Super weak on its own: - slow like a turtle - no disengage / reposition skills (portal is too clunky) - usually one poor stack of stability which is its only stunbreak at the same time (if he runs more anti cc stuff he will suffer a significant damage reduction, so that some classes can simply go melee -> burst, making things even worse for him) Everyone who is not a total noob can at least softcounter a scourge in a 1v1 - if you can't kite you can at least cc-lock him... **...but the class is beyond broken when stacked (too much barriers) or babysitted by a firebrand or ele (too much heal).** This needs to be adressed (like I said: won't happen). But what can I say, most players are just bad. Typical scenario when I am with some randoms in wvw and we engage another group with a scourge: - scourge engages - I wait a few seconds until he stacked torment/burn to cleanse it since all his other conditions are just trash and will just slow but not hurt you - I engage the scourge - I realize my random team mates are already in downstate for whatever reason (guess they had not a single condi cleanse and were running in circles with 10 stacks of torment - you know torment: punishes you when moving, but is pretty easy to handle when standing still - if you already got bombed by a scourge there is no reason to start to run around and try to kite, it's too late and will make things even worse! - cleanse or counter-burst then!) - I smash my head on keyboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inoki.6048 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 To be very frank, not just Scourge, but Spellbreakers are yet to receive a very powerful nerf. I am very tired fighting noobs who solely rely on 1) stun 2) constant invulnerability. People complain about Deadeye (which doesn't have unblockables), but everyone is fine with perma invulnerable warriors. Since when is a class allowed to be unkillable? I say remove the invulnerability completely and substitute it for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Inoki.6048 said: > To be very frank, not just Scourge, but Spellbreakers are yet to receive a very powerful nerf. I am very tired fighting noobs who solely rely on 1) stun 2) constant invulnerability. > > People complain about Deadeye (which doesn't have unblockables), but everyone is fine with perma invulnerable warriors. Since when is a class allowed to be unkillable? I say remove the invulnerability completely and substitute it for something else. What about something like a barrier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I think the main reason why it hasn't been nerf is that he is an intended counter to the boon meta and anet want to force it to the players. The more boons there is in front of the scourge the more hate other professions have for the scourge. One of the main issue that generate these complaints about scourge in WvW is that most of the one that complain play in WvW like they would play in PvE: with damage oriented build and gear. Yes it was working with HoT and yes it was fun but anet want players to break a bit from PvE when they go in WvW and scourge is their poison to deal with players that refuse to do so. In the end, a tanky build or a range build will easily deal with a scourge while a dps build that heavily rely on boon will collapse in a few seconds. This is as complicated as that. Stop trying to win against the rock with your scizor, use paper, it will become very easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 > @Dadnir.5038 said: > This is as complicated as that. Stop trying to win against the rock with your scizor, use paper, it will become very easy. If you try to beat a rock with paper, all you get is a crumpled up paper and an unphased rock. Actually its exactly how the necro situation often unfolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eater of Peeps.9062 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Suck it up boys. They don't call it Scourge for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 > @Tzozef.9841 said: > It's CONDITIONS that are the problem. Until Conditions as a whole gets addressed, it doesnt matter what you do with Scourge, conditions need to be addressed period. It's not, the majority of professions' condition builds are completely inoffensive (or outright bad). All complaints about "conditions" are just stealth complaints about necromancers (plus the rare mesmer or thief). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis.7896 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Inoki.6048 said: > To be very frank, not just Scourge, but Spellbreakers are yet to receive a very powerful nerf. I am very tired fighting noobs who solely rely on 1) stun 2) constant invulnerability. > > People complain about Deadeye (which doesn't have unblockables), but everyone is fine with perma invulnerable warriors. Since when is a class allowed to be unkillable? I say remove the invulnerability completely and substitute it for something else. Lol invulnerabilities with 60 seconds cooldowns are shit. 90% of people i fight as a spellbreaker have stability, Try it and after 3 or four days, you'll change your point of view on the spellbreaker. It is a melee kitable class with no way of one shotting any opponent and with no invisibility/clones/pets/teleports/infinite dodges, etc class. All the hits spellbreakers take, they take it with they faces. The last nerf made them shit an the only thing that makes them still useful in wvw is the bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlySynz.3471 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 > @Napo.1230 said: > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > @intox.6347 said: > > > > @ilmau.9781 said: > > > > WOW! that is so fun such an amazing meta, i can t wait to log and play any of those builds, who could resist to a condi scourge an heal firebrand or an hammer ravenant!!?? > > > > > > > > it is very fun to stay ranged and spam 1111111 in front, to be honest i would have give the 2017 game of the year award to Gw2 > > > > > > Try it :) Its more like playing old pistol thief mixed with longbow ranger, staff ele... but with bigger dps. If you play full dps backline rev, its not that bad ... risky and rewarding, u cant go into condi bombs, u need to avoid pushing to choke points... if i compare when i play my trailblazer scourge ... u can play like tank... u can dive into zerg and spam crap ... deal dmg and stay alive with no problem... mostly loot picker build and got bored by that. > > > Build im using now mostly.... hammer rev, minstrel auramancer tempest, minstrel ventari, cele firebrand (boring for me), trailblazer scourge (boring but effective), marauder core ele, zerk SB, power shatter mirage .. i dont like old times when 40% of zerg were guards, 20% hammer wars, + other.... now its more versatile, also ppl learn what to use and more and more experienced ppl playing. > > > > with mallyx you got perma resistence, there is no thing such condi bomb with a ravenant :D > > Perma resistance? You mean a few seconds max which pulls all your parties condis to you? or do you mean the actual reality of 0 seconds due to it getting instantly corrupted and you are left to dealwith all of the condis. Yes perma-resistance. Easily doable with a handful of revs in the zerg. I've run across more often than not in zerg battles where it makes more sense to just hang back and wait for the zergs to disengage where you start picking off stragglers. This is the actual issue, not scourge, but the ability to completely nullify one damage type permanently in fights. This should never happen under any circumstance ever. This is no different than scourges having permanent up-time in nullifying physical damage Imagine if scourges could just run into the middle of a zerg while players mashed all they physical damage buttons only to be met with "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune". Do you think that would honestly fly with the community? We can't use barrier as an argument for "physical immunity" when my ranger can kill any scourge in less than 7 seconds regardless of how much barrier they are stacking or healing being tossed their way. Scourges aren't the problem, players are the problem. Players are stuck in the old ways of wanting to melee ball around mashing #1; that is ultimately what this comes down to. This is what scourges stop (and rightfully so, provided the group doesn't have many revs). The very first change Anet needs to make is remove the ability for players to maintain permanent resistance up-time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 But it was nerfed, can we leave the class alone now? I'm not a necro player but it seems that alot of folk just wanna remove the class out of the game like SBs. Please just shoot at the necromancer you can't face tank scourges please stop trying to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takatsu.9416 Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I was wondering if scourges are actually satisfied when they kill players in a group setting? I haven't had a scourge kill me in 1v1 in the field yet but in 1vX you can be accidentally caught in the aoe scourges vomit and the Condi sometimes is a really fast burst. Without a scourge around 1vX is actually possible sometimes. As a +1 and sort of spamming red circles, do they know their class wouldn't be able to 1v1 duel very well and is in that scenario or a scenario where holding a single cap area essentially an aoe one shot build with a lot of sustain? I don't mind them playing into this niche and for these situations but I'm just curious if most scourges know this and choose to group play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxanne.6140 Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 how does this thread manage to continue for weeks lmao. don't you people get tired and bored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis.7896 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @Roxanne.6140 said: > how does this thread manage to continue for weeks lmao. don't you people get tired and bored? Because scourges are still overpowered and people still are having bad times because of Arena Net free games ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign.1093 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 we must all convert to the beauty of trail blazer scourge. it is balanced, it is not efficient in pve, so we must show it.love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynz.9437 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 > @Roxanne.6140 said: > how does this thread manage to continue for weeks lmao. don't you people get tired and bored? Because scourges continue to ruin experience in pvp/wvw and being rather useless in pve. The spec needs revamp. It was obviously made to increase sales. It brings players to ratings in pvp where they don't belong and being a burden. It made wvw fights absolute nightmare. This spec also introduced even more powercreep than we already have. Instead of reducing boonspam Anet just added another pest to the game. There are more issues than ever been before simply because of this one spec. Meanwhile Anet refuses to do anything about (i am guessing because sales goal is not reached yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilmau.9781 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 they will nerf it when they decide they sold enought PoF copies :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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