Still the best MMO on the market.

[Angelweave.1856]

Yep agree it is the best mmo on the market at the moment, the qol features are amazing, even spvp with all it's flaws is still fun. I still play eso every now and then but I only last about 1hr then I'm back, wow is impossible you can't dodge and the best part about GW2 is no server downtime, for an oceanic player that means my primetime is playtime.

 

Two things I would love added into the game is the combat to be able to be a little more free (i.e. less locked onto the target and able to miss) also to either go the whole way with tank/heal/dps in raids and implement a threat mechanic or make the meta raid comp be one of each class because you need the utilities of each class in synergy. The current soft trinity just feels meah.

 

Still I haven't found anything that comes close to doing so much right like GW2 does...

[Nemmar.8491]

I think what the one is is a personal preference.

 

I don't think theres a perfect mmo.

 

For example, if i were to select the one with the best combat, it's probably TERA. If i choose the one with the best raids, it's probably WoW, If i choose the one that has the best voiced story, maybe it's SWTOR. If i choose the one that is the best classic fantasy and graphics, it's FFXIVARR. If i choose the one with the gearing system that isn't constantly shifting, theres GW2.

 

I don't think theres a best one. I think you may value different things in how they work.

 

Atm, i play both WoW and GW2. WoW has great raids and is easy to get into. That is a strong aspect. GW2 flips the table in progressions systems (though i admit most of GW2 value comes from GW1 and nostalgia. I think it is inferior to it's predecessor). GW2 has the advantage that it has no sub and the progress you make on it doesn't lose value. It makes it the perfect off-mmo imo. Atm WoW is super boring cause it's just one pointless AP grind and everyone is waiting for the new raid. So, GW2 fills those luls really well. If you were to play GW2 as your main mmo, you will probably find it lacking in the raid or fractal/dungeon support. Even the story is actually relatively small and not very good. It's just the maps that are stellar, but if you prefer end-game content the new maps are only a distraction. Theres never something for you to go after if you got ascended or legendary gear. It's both it's strong and weak point.

 

Anyways TLDR: It's on the eye of the beholder and whatever he values most.

[SilverSeva.5372]

> @"Wander.5780" said:

> ANET addressed many of the problems that existed with HoT.

 

The game is still using Direct X 9. Wich is weird, what are you talking about??

That was one of my reasons to quit GW2...I just cant play the game well with shadows and reflections on ultra without fps drops...

 

We are in 2018, not 2013.....

 

 

 

[Zedek.8932]

Excelsior.

 

> @"SilverSeva.5372" said:

>

> The game is still using Direct X 9. Wich is weird, what are you talking about??

> That was one of my reasons to quit GW2...I just cant play the game well with shadows and reflections on ultra without fps drops...

>

> We are in 2018, not 2013.....

 

Haha, what a fake excuse. First, please stop putting DirectX as the saviour of a game in general. Anyone liking the game, the artwork, the art style, the story does not care about on what DX version it runs on. Usually, people in 2013 also left a game and never came back, not still posting on the forums like they do in 2018 apparently.

 

One of my favourite game, MS-DOS DooM and DooM II run on software rendering in native 320x200 and 256 colours. It's one of the best games in video game history with a massive fanbase till today, me included.

 

> @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> Despite kitten balance in spvp...despite abandoned and forgotten wvw...despite mounts rng...yeah, will see once something else fancy appears though.

 

Balance in PvP is impossible to maintain without messing up all the other professions and their build.

Look how awful the balance in LoL is, and their combinations are far less complicated.

 

In a very abstract way I'd say that the lack of balance in PVP is a good sign: The professions are so interesting and uniqute each to their own that they can't be matched up. As weird as that sounds, but that is a good sign. If everything is very boring and streamlined, it's easy to balance. But who would play such a game?

 

About the topic:

I still have the HOURS of footage from FF14 here. But when I think about all the poo that happens in that game, the stoic playerbase (I have never seen such an amount of mentally fragile social justice warriors special snowflake players in such a small place in FF14), terrible executive area (YoshiP is..incompetent to say it nice) and the incredible ridiculous cash shop ontop of a monthly fee, paired with many downtimes and errors is not quite something I want to go back to.

 

Also, the story in all other games are so awful. First, I was put down by "dem dragonz muzt die" sort of thing, but man, I would put my Asura Deadeye above any of my other game's characters with no second thought.

 

> @"Erasculio.2914" said:

> I'm always amused by topics like this.

>

> "GW2 is better than any other MMORPG!"

>

> ...Sure. But does that mean that GW2 is great and the others are good? Or that all the others suck horribly and that GW2 is a bad game, but not as bad as the rest?

>

> "And the other MMORPGs suck horribly!"

>

> Oh well, I guess that answers my question?

>

> And really, what is the point in posting a topic like this in the GW2 forum? Posting a topic saying the same thing in the WoW forum would make people disagree and claim that WoW is better, just like if someone came here and said that ESO was the best MMORPG ever.

>

> I'm more interested in how the MMORPGs as a whole are dying. They are all losing players, no new big MMO has been released recently, there is no AAA MMORPG coming any time soon... Looks like the genre won't last long now. Online first person shooters and single player RPGs appear to be all the rage these days.

 

I am also kinda amused by responses like yours. The problem with your sight is that people that use that argument like you are doing right now, are often fed up by MMORPGs in general. And that's why your view on the matter is tinted. It's like if I tell my grandma about an Elvis song that I just discovered and while I play it several times a day, my grandma would say "Nah, this kind of music died 40 years ago, and I also don't like it anymore". But does that mean Elivs Presley music is bad? Not at all. Does it mean new listeners like me are wrong? Pff, really?

 

The genre is not dying either. It's just losing its big bloat. There will be always people playing and spending money for and in those games, but the pendulum swings back now. Coming from easy crash grab MMORPG eras, going back to a normal playerbase is indeed a minus in percentage, but does not mean it crashed down to 0. If I would not be 27 years, but 17 again, and this would be my first MMORPG, I'd rave how awesome it is. Also, if MMORPGs change (and they do!) they can attract other playerbases as well. Everything containing ONLINE is the way to go, so the first hurdle is taken. Look how Raids are stripped from games because 3-month training sessions is not something players want to do anymore. The MMO market can survive easily if they careful change.

 

The whole hype of "Player Unknown Battleground" and such games is barely any sign of shift in player interest, neither is some overhauled PS single player games.

Look how Minecraft hit the market. Every streamer, every mainstream person, every follower of Twitch streamers played that game. Now it went back to normal state of only the fans playing, and the storm died off. Is this the end for the Minecraft scene? Not at all.

 

Please do not exaggerate and start up the sinking chip speeches. I have heard that a decade ago actually. But then (and now, people like you included) look at the MMORPG market as something that can not change, as a natural rule. You can re-design your game and re-consider your designs to follow the market a bit.

 

The reason why there is no AAA right now is the attitude of nobody want to spend money into games anymore. Look how people here are trying to avoid expansion packs of 30€. How could a company justify to spend 25.000.000€ then? It's not about the genre dying, it's about people are too accustomed to Free2Play games and attitude.

[Vavume.8065]

> @"Wander.5780" said:

> I can say with certainty this is the most enjoyable, and immersive MMO out there.

 

Cos map loading screens are so immersive... /s

 

Only MMO's with seemless worlds have a hope of being truly immersive (which GW2 does not have). Some may say this is just my opinion, but it's probably closer to fact.

 

[Tiger Ashante.1792]

> @"Xillllix.3485" said:

" ESO's world is bigger, every character has a voice"

 

Every character except your own!

And ESO world is not bigger, just b/c the world hasn't fully been developed it doesn't make it small. Have u seen the globe of Tyria? gw2 world is massive! Even if true that ESO world is bigger (which is very debatable), it's more empty and boring. ESO is full of repetitive cut and paste buildings everywhere, especially interiors that are mirrored all the time to a point where i was getting lost as to where i was as all the layouts looked the same but reversed and many are exact replicas . The textures and graphics are awful. Everything is dull and when I turned my system on Ultra everything looked stretched and pixelated. The character animations and combat are retarded, at least that's how my character looked to me and omg the jumping is abysmal. The mounts are below average in appearance and have horrible running animations and though some people enjoy ESO crafting, i hated it and good luck finding resources. The trading system was terrible too, relaying on leftovers from trading guilds that pick out all the best stuff and what they don't want is left for you to equip yourself. And don't even get me started on the stupid champion (pointless grind) points. These are some of the reasons why i stopped playing the game some time ago, but hey, each to his own.

 

Edit: Spelling

 

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Yes, Guild Wars 2 is definitely the best MMO on the market right now. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: It's the game I've played the longest now. Usually, I'll last a month, maybe two, before I hang up on any MMO. I've stuck with Guild Wars 2 since beta. Not saying I'm a huge fanboy or always happy with every decision. Hardly. But it's still the MMO that keeps me interested and entertained over the years. Not even Warcraft did that for as long.

 

I think that says enough.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Ellisande.5218" said:

> I still think that STO and WoW are better MMOs.

>

> Although I don't play WoW anymore and never will ever since they directly insulted my intelligence by blaming their laziness and cheapness in designing maps by removing flying by saying this is only because of my desire to fly around instead of walk/run so they had to remove the ability for me to fly. They've lost out on several hundred dollars so far.

 

They never "took it away", just made it so you can't fly on new maps when the expansion launches.

 

But you'll be happy to learn that they changed it 3 years ago at least, now you can earn flying around patch x.2 of any expansion.

 

And yes flying trivializes a lot of content so it makes sense not to have it unless you already played through said content.

 

 

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Wander.5780" said:

> > @Xillllix.3485 said:

> > Honestly for PvE ESO is way ahead now... GW2 had WvW and better PvP potential. But, ESO's world is bigger, every character has a voice, quests are varied, there are dungeons on every map, crafting is better, has first person view. Just my opinion of course. I don't see how Morrowind is more of a cash grab than PoF. Specially considering it has a new class, huge map and dungeons...

>

> The quests are repetitive and boring, fetch this, fetch that type garbage.

 

As opposed to how repetitive and boring GW2 hearts and events are? At least ESO quests have interesting stories.

 

As to the thread in general, what’s “best” will always be subjective. There will be different elements within a game that someone likes and dislikes.

[Rauderi.8706]

I still enjoy the game, but I really do find my eyes wandering again, especially after ANet's typical "do something great -> do something wtf" development cycle.

Combat system is the most fluid I'm going to find in an environment I'm going to tolerate. ...buuut, most enemies are stun-happy chumps.

I can craft best-in-slot gear and never have it wither. ...buuut, the crafting is actually abysmal, and there aren't sufficient sinks for so many materials.

Plenty of different build choices within each profession. ...buuut then they also bork Confusion out of nowhere and zip up, telling us to sit and spin.

By far still the best in convenience and quality of life. ...buuut we still struggle with inventory woes, pitiful loot, and a lack of places to put entire categories of items.

 

..You get the idea. If ANet could take two steps forward without one step being in skritt poo, it could very well be the best game on the market.

And it could very well be the best game on the market, and it *still* wouldn't capture all the people who whinge for a gear treadmill.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> Despite kitten balance in spvp...despite abandoned and forgotten wvw...despite mounts rng...yeah, will see once something else fancy appears though.

 

Wow balancing is bad as well.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

>

> So GW2 is the best because you don't have to use your brain and you can just do everything with everything, anytime?

 

I think the earlier comment shows the exact opposite. In this game, you stand still? You die. In WoW? Pretty much the norm and hope you have a good healer. Build variety alone in Guild Wars 2 proves your opinion inaccurate.

 

And that's just one example. I think GW2 is better because if you use your brain, you get rewarded for it. Sadly, we've seen this proven out with certain mechanics and where some players couldn't figure it out despite the clues.

 

But that's another topic.

 

Regardless, it's been a long time since I've played Warcraft. But I do recall why I left: They dumbed down all your choices and made them all for you until everyone became the same, mindless cookie-cutter build without choice or need for thought.

 

If that isn't the epitome of brainless, I don't know what is.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> >

> > So GW2 is the best because you don't have to use your brain and you can just do everything with everything, anytime?

>

> I think the earlier comment proves the exact opposite. In this game, you stand still? You die. In WoW? Pretty much the norm and hope you have a good healer.

 

In WoW you stand still in danger, you still die - but casters have to make risk/reward decisions that are completely absent from GW2 because they have to decide between skills and movement quite often. In this game everything plays like melee, even specs with 1.2k range.

 

> And that's just one example. I think GW2 is better because if you use your brain, you get rewarded for it.

 

Yeah right, when you get CC'd and the game breaks stun for you and gives you CC immunity in some cases, or when you'd get 100-0'd and the game makes you not take damage for 2-3 seconds at 50% instead of letting you get well deserved punishment. Or when you'd land a perfect CC combo and a Mirage just dodges out of it while casting mid-dodge LUL

 

> But I do recall why I left: They dumbed down all your choices and made them all for you until everyone became the same, mindless cookie-cutter build without choice or need for thought.

 

Isn't that the same, maybe even worse here? You are told that you have to have exactly 1 healing skill, 3 utilities, and 1 elite all times, with only 5 active weapon skills at any time. You can't mix weapon skills as you'd like either because they come as a bundle. And in raids everyone's running around with permanent upkeep of every single worthwhile buff in the game, just spamming different AoE and autoattacks. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of? Choice, when some classes only have only 1 set of viable utilities for 5 years in PvP? lol

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

I'm only going to shift once star citizen hits alpha 3.4 onwards - ie object container streaming online, carrack and 600i in game, and most foundation mechanics done.

 

But I'll still be dipping into gw2 - the beauty of b2p, can come back for LW and expansions or if I feel like some wvw and so on.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

 

With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

 

That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

 

And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

 

 

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:. Where is this freedom of choice, need for thought, and class identity you speak of?

>

> With those players who know exactly the class and style they want to play. It's also with those players who demand every skill, trait, gear, rune, and sigil choice matters for their specific gaming style. This also includes pet choices for rangers and necromancers. That alone makes a world of difference or each player. Again, these choices require you have a brain and do some research for what you want in your game-play.

>

> That said, I very much remember everyone telling me I was playing my ranger wrong because of my choices. Were they right? Was I wrong? Doesn't matter. The point is I got to _choose_.

>

> And if you can't see that, there's nothing else to discuss.

>

>

 

I'd agree with this sentiment except the devs seem dead set on removing choices. When they pretty much removed Spirit Weapons from Guardian, I was told "spirit weapons were garbage, they're better now" but are completely obvlivious to the point that they provided a choice and style to your play that is now not possible (I have no entities to spread my many boons to while solo...) and now have generic AoEs (what is the difference between a spirit weapon and a consecration? one has the ammo system). The same can be said for mesmer phantasms but apparently, the whole phantasm build is just shoehorned into Mirage now...

 

Having started up Tera again, I notice a particular drawback to GW2's builds and systems: boons and conditions. The system is too saturated and watered down. Sure, you notice a difference when a foe is bogged down by every condition in the book but individual conditions are extremely muted and they have to be because of their abundance. Same with boons. In other games, when a buffer or debuffer is around, it makes a huge difference while at the same time, those buffers/debuffers only provide a niche of effects, not "nearly every effect in the game perma".

 

This has a direct effect on builds, build-craft and diversity.

[Galaa.8475]

agree with op, played all the "AAA" mmo's. I started this one in aug/sep 17. For me, this is the best one i've played since Rift first came out. I just couldnt find a home. I will continue to try the new mmo's that come out. but i think ive found a home.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

> > @"Vasdamas Anklast.1607" said:

> > Despite kitten balance in spvp...despite abandoned and forgotten wvw...despite mounts rng...yeah, will see once something else fancy appears though.

>

> Balance in PvP is impossible to maintain without messing up all the other professions and their build.

> Look how awful the balance in LoL is, and their combinations are far less complicated.

>

> In a very abstract way I'd say that the lack of balance in PVP is a good sign: The professions are so interesting and uniqute each to their own that they can't be matched up. As weird as that sounds, but that is a good sign. If everything is very boring and streamlined, it's easy to balance. But who would play such a game?

>

> About the topic:

> I still have the HOURS of footage from FF14 here. But when I think about all the poo that happens in that game, the stoic playerbase (I have never seen such an amount of mentally fragile social justice warriors special snowflake players in such a small place in FF14), terrible executive area (YoshiP is..incompetent to say it nice) and the incredible ridiculous cash shop ontop of a monthly fee, paired with many downtimes and errors is not quite something I want to go back to.

>

> Also, the story in all other games are so awful. First, I was put down by "dem dragonz muzt die" sort of thing, but man, I would put my Asura Deadeye above any of my other game's characters with no second thought.

>

I don't think the balance in LoL is awful. I'd even dare to go as far as to say it's the most balanced game I ever played. I've realized that ever since I learnt how to play that very limited pool of favorite champions I have . The very essence of any win in LoL is based on strategic decisions and counterpicks. And I you don't screw up your early, get fed and then keep on hammering enemy carries while also FEEDING your teammates it's a win 80% of the time. Platinum 2 here btw.

Though I have to admit that there are few champions in LoL that are dusty despite recent reworks, it also has 139 champions overall. And we only got 9 professions with lots of specs. At least one of those specs has to be viable.

[Cobrakon.3108]

Its not a high bar to achieve, since this is the mmorpg side of gaming, but yes, from what I can tell GW2 still is the best MMORPG out there. I haven't tried black desert yet, and there seems to be a few more coming down the ramp in 2018 so we shall see.

[Sylent.3165]

> @"Xillllix.3485" said:

> Honestly for PvE ESO is way ahead now... GW2 had WvW and better PvP potential. But, ESO's world is bigger, every character has a voice, quests are varied, there are dungeons on every map, crafting is better, has first person view. Just my opinion of course. I don't see how Morrowind is more of a cash grab than PoF. Specially considering it has a new class, huge map and dungeons...

 

Yea Eso is way ahead in terms of pve, extremely nice cash shop similar to gw2 but with more of a cool style of getting your character just right with looks. Bigger world and fun quests and stories and dark Brotherhood and thieves guild and wrothgar!

 

PvP in Eso though....Well I don't like it in either game as I don't like PvP but I can tolerate it in gw2 but Eso PvP is pretty horrible in my opinion.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

All this praise for ESO's PvE as me interested, but my experience with it in beta was so bad. Has it really improved that much? I dunno. The latest Steam reviews are pretty unforgiving. And the promo videos left a lot to be desired in my humble opinion.

 

But let me not derail the thread. . . .

[Tigaseye.2047]

I've always felt that different games I have played have had different strengths and weaknesses.

 

So, if someone could take the best parts of WoW, GW2 and ESO (and get rid of all the worst bits), they would have produced a near-perfect MMO (from my point of view, at least).

 

Having said that, the last time I played WoW (in WoD) it was terrible, because they had listened to a few extremely "hardcore" players, who had insisted they remove all the fun and accessibility and add copious amounts of grind, instead.

 

So, when I say "WoW", I'm referring to MoP era WoW; definitely not what came after it.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Anyone who says otherwise is wrong! That's right! I said it :)

[Tigaseye.2047]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> All this praise for ESO's PvE as me interested, but my experience with it in beta was so bad. Has it really improved that much? I dunno. The latest Steam reviews are pretty unforgiving. And the promo videos left a lot to be desired in my humble opinion.

>

> But let me not derail the thread. . . .

 

I've been playing ESO for the last 6 months.

 

I also played it on release, for about 3 months.

 

I would say it's a pretty good game (and far less buggy than it was).

 

It has good looking, engaging environments and immersive gameplay.

 

Landscapes can sometimes be a little artificial-looking, but on the whole they are pretty nice.

 

Dungeons aren't bad at all, on the whole.

 

The housing and furnishing features are also quite nice, if you like a Sims type element in your mmo and they also give you somewhere to craft in peace.

 

The crafting is actually fun (especially furniture crafting) and I say that as someone who doesn't normally enjoy crafting in games.

 

The long time-gating on armour research can be a pain, though.

 

My main issues with it (and the reason I'm taking an indefinite break from it, again) are:

 

a) I _still_ can't choose to move the way I want.

 

You have no choice but to move the camera independently, with your mouse (or pad!).

 

I find that pretty awkward and it even gave me RSI, for the first couple of months.

 

b) All selling (other than listing in zone chat) is done through guilds.

 

Guilds plural, as you can only list 30 items on each guild trader, at a time.

 

Meaning that if you ever want/need to leave a guild, you will have an inbox full of your previously listed items and you will have lost your listing fees.

 

Also, many of the guilds with a decent guild trader location require a min. sales per week amount, so they can maintain that location - which is way more pressure than most people want from a game, in my opinion.

 

I didn't try PVP there, because of point a), so I can't really comment on that.

[Tigaseye.2047]

> @"Ellisande.5218" said:

> I still think that STO and WoW are better MMOs.

>

> Although I don't play WoW anymore and never will ever since they directly insulted my intelligence by blaming their laziness and cheapness in designing maps by removing flying by saying this is only because of my desire to fly around instead of walk/run so they had to remove the ability for me to fly. They've lost out on several hundred dollars so far.

 

I know.

 

Problem is, they suddenly decided to listen to and/or employ(!) a bunch of self-centred...

 

Well, I think I better leave it there.

 

It's their loss.