Is the Guild wars 2 gold to gems exchange fair?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

The fact that gold to gems exchange exists is more than fair already, considering game bussiness model.

[blambidy.3216]

In the beginning I'd say it wasn't fair but, later in the game understanding easy ways to make gold. It's fair in this game. Mats that are worth a lot you can just farm the mat and come up with gold easily. PvP gives gold easily. In the gold exchange to gems and gems to gold I see why it cost more for gems to gold. Because it's broken. In reality gw2 is not pay to win but we make it that way. Buy gems switch to gold and buy this faster. When it defeats the purpose of fun and understanding the game. If it was same rate. Everyone would be exchanging that to gems to gold like it's no tomorrow. Then arenanet might even take it off because everybody wouldn't be playing the game. We would just be buying things instead of earning it. I would be mad if the gold to gems rate was higher then gems to gold. Making it harder to convert to gems but, it's really not hard. It's just time. Play the game. Take your time. Sell stuff. Farm. Sell stuff. Dungeons sell stuff, and before you know it you won't worry about the rate. Gold in this game is much easier to get then a lot of games for grinding.

[blambidy.3216]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> The fact that gold to gems exchange exists is more than fair already, considering game bussiness model.

 

Right. I mean arenanet gets paid for the gems. But we exchange that for free and get anything we need of the game that cost real money. Does arenanet still get paid if we exchange gold for gems?

 

 

[Silmar Alech.4305]

> @blambidy.3216 said:

> Does arenanet still get paid if we exchange gold for gems?

 

Arenanet does. Every gem we buy with gold, has been sold by another player for gold. And that gem has been created by buying it with real money in the second tab of the trading post.

[Zedek.8932]

Excelsior.

 

One of the first things I did was dropping 35€ in gems to convert to gold because I needed Shadow Abyss colour.

The fact that I could do that was awesome and the exchange rate are not of interest when you got some money in your hand (read as: Have a profession and thus monthly income)

 

When you are on the other side of the fence, I could understand it's not very great, but in the end, it's people like me who keep the game running, so I think a little bit of an adjustment is fine. I played "MapleStory" roughly 10 years ago and the prizes went into BILLIONS. I am glad we are fine with the currencies in GW2 so far.

 

[sorudo.9054]

not at all, a fair exchange gives as much as it gives back.

when i buy 800 gems and exchange it for gold i expect 800 gems for the same amount of gold.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @sorudo.9054 said:

> not at all, a fair exchange gives as much as it gives back.

> when i buy 800 gems and exchange it for gold i expect 800 gems for the same amount of gold.

 

If it had that system, no difference in gems to gold prices, people could flip gems for gold and getting ingame rich by sitting there flipping thousands to hundreds of thousands of gems at a time for a profit per flip. I'd betting people driving up gem prices and getting rich that way would be something you'd like even less.

 

.

__________

Be careful what you ask for. ANet might give it to you.

___________

 

[Charrbeque.8729]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @sorudo.9054 said:

> > not at all, a fair exchange gives as much as it gives back.

> > when i buy 800 gems and exchange it for gold i expect 800 gems for the same amount of gold.

>

> If it had that system, no difference in gems to gold prices, people could flip gems for gold and getting ingame rich by sitting there flipping thousands to hundreds of thousands of gems at a time for a profit per flip. I'd betting people driving up gem prices and getting rich that way would be something you'd like even less.

>

> .

> __________

> Be careful what you ask for. ANet might give it to you.

> ___________

>

 

Yep. Another MMORPG I play has a currency exchange that functions similar to the trading post in GW2, where you can pay the going rate or list a different price and hope you get what you ask for. The problem was, for years the exchange would spike upwards in large amounts (say, from something like 200:1 to 300:1 in a couple hours), every time there was a sale or new item in the cash shop. Little by little the price would slowly creep higher and higher. Eventually players started complaining about the exchange prices being too high and throwing around accusations that it was being manipulated. The max price you could trade currency for was 500:1 and it had eventually settled at 400:1 with it spiking nearly at the max of 500 during sales and new items in the cash shop (but always coming back down almost to where it was)

 

Then a few months ago I noticed a thread in that game's subreddit where someone was complaining about their "friend" being banned from the game and how it wasn't fair because their "friend" was well known and loved by the community. Well, looking through the comments someone mentioned they knew who the person was that got banned, and he/she was banned for heavily exploiting the game for in game currency and using it to manipulate the currency exchange.

 

What I noticed was that, after the community manager was let go and replaced, the currency exchange seemed to not only go down but it evened out finally. It's been sitting at a reasonable 300:1 for months now, with it only going up just a few points, if anything, during sales and new items being released in the cash shop. It could just be a coincidence, but based on the description of that person's "friend" and what was explained by that one commenter, it seems plausible.

 

--------------------

 

Is the current price in the currency exchange fair? Well that depends on the individual. Some players will be fine with it while there's always going to be some players who wish it was lower (when buying gems) or higher (when selling gems).

 

In terms of players not being able to actually set their own prices and udercut or drive the prices up? I think the system as a whole is fair with the way it's designed to keep people from manipulating the exchange due to exploiting the game or buying from gold sellers.

 

Personally if I need some gems for something I really want and I don't have the cash to buy gems, I'll sell of crafting materials to get enough gold for what I need. It would be nice if the price was lower, but it is what it is and if you're desperate enough you'll pay the going rate.

[Offair.2563]

Fair? i dunno. The fact you can use ingame currency to buy gemstore item in a b2p game is already amazing to me. Not many gamestudios with such a business model would allow this.

[onevstheworld.2419]

> @Offair.2563 said:

> Fair? i dunno. The fact you can use ingame currency to buy gemstore item in a b2p game is already amazing to me. Not many gamestudios with such a business model would allow this.

 

I think you sum it up quite nicely.

 

Depending on your opinion, the gem/gold exchange may or may not be "fair". But you have to admit that, when it comes to micro-transactions, Anet's business model is more ethical than most of it's peers.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @Davidm.2419 said:

> Is the Guild wars 2 gold to gems exchange fair?

 

Nope. It is made to "encourage" people to spend real money for Gems instead of the gold they took so much time to acquire.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

> @Rikimaru.7890 said:

> ROFL you obviously have never been to a real life currency exchange.

> As thats how it works in real life too, you buy a different currency at a higher rate than when you sell it back.

> This is due to inflation, if you had same rate both ways it would crash the market.

 

It has (well, almost) nothing to do with inflation. The exchanges take a percentage--in both directions--to cover their expenses and make a profit. Selling at equilibrium would not crash the market--it would just put the exchanges out of business. Since the people who run the exchanges aren't stupid, that would obviously never happen. However, it's already common for larger banks to offer "no foreign fee" debit/credit cards to their customers. The banks can do this because they typically have much lower exchange expenses (due to volume, more access to the different currencies, etc.) and because they make up for it by investing their depositors' cash in securities or other investment types that will pay more than those exchange fees. Amazingly enough, it doesn't crash the markets.

 

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> In real life some of the money 'lost' during the transaction also goes to pay costs - the salary of the person who sold it to you, the rent, lighting, electrics etc. for the shop, internet connection to monitor exchange rates, salary of the people who transport the physical currency between locations and so on.

>

> GW2 simulates that by just deleting it from the game - which (along with similar systems like TP and waypoint fees) balances out all those times gold just appears from nowhere when you kill an enemy or complete an event or whatever. Otherwise we'd have hyperinflation due to all the gold constantly appearing in the system and never being removed.

 

Remember, all of the gold that is bought on the TP comes from players, so it already exists in the game, and all of the gems that are being bought are also from players, which ultimately were bought with _real money_ (mostly, excepting promotions), so all of the gems in the system represent someone's actual cash: $10 for 800 gems or $0.0125 per gem. The part I think you're missing is that it's not gold that is "deleted from the game", it's gems, i.e. _MONEY_. Currently (when I looked at the rates before I started this post) when someone buys 100g for 575 gems, that 100g came from a player, who is only receiving 389 gems. The difference is 186 gems, or 33%! ANet is keeping 33% of your _real_ money, or $2.325 per 100g, for the privilege of moving some fictitious gold from one player to another. Sure, real life exchanges take a percentage (but see above about "no foreign fee" debit cards), but they don't charge 33%. It's typically 4-12%, and they have to transfer real currency. And as far as the TP's prices being set by demand, you only have ANet's word on that. But of course businesses _never_ lie to their customers, right? ;)

 

So is that fair? I personally don't think so, but I think it's hard to argue that it's not just as fair as anything else that people are buying with gems--all of it is already in the game that is on everyone's hard disk, and you're just paying extra for the privilege of using it in the game on the specific avatar you happen to be using. It's always been completely beyond me why people think it's fair to pay the same price for a handful of completely fictional electronic wardrobe bits as they do for the entire game that they use those things with... but I guess I'm glad you do cuz it keeps me from paying a subscription fee. =)

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

What's with the necro

[Linken.6345]

> @"Bladezephyr.5714" said:

> > @Rikimaru.7890 said:

> > ROFL you obviously have never been to a real life currency exchange.

> > As thats how it works in real life too, you buy a different currency at a higher rate than when you sell it back.

> > This is due to inflation, if you had same rate both ways it would crash the market.

>

> It has (well, almost) nothing to do with inflation. The exchanges take a percentage--in both directions--to cover their expenses and make a profit. Selling at equilibrium would not crash the market--it would just put the exchanges out of business. Since the people who run the exchanges aren't stupid, that would obviously never happen. However, it's already common for larger banks to offer "no foreign fee" debit/credit cards to their customers. The banks can do this because they typically have much lower exchange expenses (due to volume, more access to the different currencies, etc.) and because they make up for it by investing their depositors' cash in securities or other investment types that will pay more than those exchange fees. Amazingly enough, it doesn't crash the markets.

>

> > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > In real life some of the money 'lost' during the transaction also goes to pay costs - the salary of the person who sold it to you, the rent, lighting, electrics etc. for the shop, internet connection to monitor exchange rates, salary of the people who transport the physical currency between locations and so on.

> >

> > GW2 simulates that by just deleting it from the game - which (along with similar systems like TP and waypoint fees) balances out all those times gold just appears from nowhere when you kill an enemy or complete an event or whatever. Otherwise we'd have hyperinflation due to all the gold constantly appearing in the system and never being removed.

>

> Remember, all of the gold that is bought on the TP comes from players, so it already exists in the game, and all of the gems that are being bought are also from players, which ultimately were bought with _real money_ (mostly, excepting promotions), so all of the gems in the system represent someone's actual cash: $10 for 800 gems or $0.0125 per gem. The part I think you're missing is that it's not gold that is "deleted from the game", it's gems, i.e. _MONEY_. Currently (when I looked at the rates before I started this post) when someone buys 100g for 575 gems, that 100g came from a player, who is only receiving 389 gems. The difference is 186 gems, or 33%! ANet is keeping 33% of your _real_ money, or $2.325 per 100g, for the privilege of moving some fictitious gold from one player to another. Sure, real life exchanges take a percentage (but see above about "no foreign fee" debit cards), but they don't charge 33%. It's typically 4-12%, and they have to transfer real currency. And as far as the TP's prices being set by demand, you only have ANet's word on that. But of course businesses _never_ lie to their customers, right? ;)

>

> So is that fair? I personally don't think so, but I think it's hard to argue that it's not just as fair as anything else that people are buying with gems--all of it is already in the game that is on everyone's hard disk, and you're just paying extra for the privilege of using it in the game on the specific avatar you happen to be using. It's always been completely beyond me why people think it's fair to pay the same price for a handful of completely fictional electronic wardrobe bits as they do for the entire game that they use those things with... but I guess I'm glad you do cuz it keeps me from paying a subscription fee. =)

 

You are wrong mate they keep the gems in the pool they dont vanish, what vanish is the extra gold you pay to get 389 gems

[blambidy.3216]

Ok I’ve seen this post multiple times. It’s fair. Let’s explain the trading post. Everything is effected by actual value ok. So if less people are buying gems, the value of gems are higher. If more people are buying gems. The value goes down. It’s by the rarity of gems. The more gems are sold the less rare they are. The less the gems sell, the more gems are in value. So if your fake gold money is equivalent to real actual gem currency it’s a fair trade.

 

Gems is an actual currency. Actually people should be happy about the conversion. Not all games have a real money to fake money or vise versa conversion.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> You are wrong mate they keep the gems in the pool they dont vanish, what vanish is the extra gold you pay to get 389 gems

 

Your assertion is not supported by basic arithmetic. Player 1 buys 100 gold, pays 575 gems. Player 2 sells 100 gold, receives 389 gems. There's no extra gold anywhere in that equation. There is only 186 gems that go missing.

[Seera.5916]

> @"Bladezephyr.5714" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > You are wrong mate they keep the gems in the pool they dont vanish, what vanish is the extra gold you pay to get 389 gems

>

> Your assertion is not supported by basic arithmetic. Player 1 buys 100 gold, pays 575 gems. Player 2 sells 100 gold, receives 389 gems. There's no extra gold anywhere in that equation. There is only 186 gems that go missing.

 

The gold vanishes, not the gems. You're just using instances where the player has fiddled with the controls enough to sell/buy 100 gold. I could go in game and do the same thing but make the gems stay constant.

 

The game deletes gold, not gems. Gems are only generated, never destroyed. They do get effectively deleted when players stop playing the game or get their accounts permanently banned. But those are the only times when gems get "deleted".

 

575 gems really buys more than 100 gold, you just lose what's over 100 to the fees. 100 gold really buys more than 389 gems, you just lose some gold before the transaction happens to pay fees.

[Ashen.2907]

A transaction, particularly involving disposable income and luxury items, in which both sides give up what they are willing to part with and receive what they desire in exchange is about as fair as it gets.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

The game gives me pixels (gold) that I can exchange for pixels (gems) that can be swapped for pixels (gemstore items)

 

 

/shrug, seems fair enough to me

[Bladezephyr.5714]

> @"Seera.5916" said:

> > @"Bladezephyr.5714" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > You are wrong mate they keep the gems in the pool they dont vanish, what vanish is the extra gold you pay to get 389 gems

> >

> > Your assertion is not supported by basic arithmetic. Player 1 buys 100 gold, pays 575 gems. Player 2 sells 100 gold, receives 389 gems. There's no extra gold anywhere in that equation. There is only 186 gems that go missing.

>

> The gold vanishes, not the gems. You're just using instances where the player has fiddled with the controls enough to sell/buy 100 gold. I could go in game and do the same thing but make the gems stay constant.

 

It's actually both... ANet is removing 33% of the transaction from the economy. For one person, that's gems, for the other it's gold, but in my book only the gems matter, because those were bought with real money.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

If anyone considers the exchange unfair, they have an option. Don't use it. ANet is not forcing people to use it. So, what Ashen said.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> If anyone considers the exchange unfair, they have an option. Don't use it. ANet is not forcing people to use it. So, what Ashen said.

 

Sure, but this thread started by someone asking if it is fair. We can guess that the OP already knows the choice to not use it exists, so that doesn't help answer the question. You can only get at the fairness of it by evaluating the relative values and costs of what is being traded.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

I say absolutely not fair one bit... unless you have no other way to get gems.

If you can, then I say don't ever do it like that and just use actual money as the exchange for gold to gems feels more like a ripoff than gems to gold.

[Khisanth.2948]

Using gold that is lying around instead of real money? I can't see how that can possibly be considered unfair.

[Mourningcry.9428]

If it's unfair, and by that meaning it's perceived as disadvantageous, then one only need to look to the playerbase as they are the explicit determining factor for the exchange rate.