Just for the sake of discussion is the downed mechanic healthy/ add anything to Pvp/wvw?

[frednought.1238]

Just thinking of downstate as a second chance for bad players who go down frequently is looking at the mechanic too simplistically. Downstate practically has its own ecosystem of interrelated mechanics--which classes have good res utility? Which classes can safely secure a stomp? The ability to choose correctly between stomping, cleaving, and bleeding downed opponents is a part of the skill cap for this game. It doesn't benefit bad players any more than having a universal dodge button helps bad players.

I think you could safely argue that certain classes' downstates could be rebalanced, but the mechanic is too integral to get rid of entirely. I mean, hell, Scrapper's entire class mechanic is based around it.

[Mirrodin.8729]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Mirrodin.8729" said:

> > > @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > > No downed state = OHKO fiesta, better if from stealth

> > > No downed state = revive skills useless

> >

> > i havent used a single rez skill in the last 3 years besides warrior banner and ranger shout skill, most have a long cast time or a dumb condition also countered with poison which is VERY common nowdays, but to remove downed state anet needs to rework all base game/skills.

> >

> > imagine lasting less than 10 secs outside of your base only to a thief/mesmer 1 shotting you

> >

> > inb4 "l2p issue" as always from this forum

>

> Health pools would obv be abjusted. I dont treat this as a small feat its just for the sake of discussion. If anet was to go with it.

 

the issue is bigger than adjust bigger health pools, since armor has little account in any battle nowdays, boons are common, same with vul, even putting double hp to each class will leave it as 1 shot fest for some builds, now the skill celling is another topic since most players that know what to do, do not get 1 shotted by random mesmers/thieves.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Mirrodin.8729" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Mirrodin.8729" said:

> > > > @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > > > No downed state = OHKO fiesta, better if from stealth

> > > > No downed state = revive skills useless

> > >

> > > i havent used a single rez skill in the last 3 years besides warrior banner and ranger shout skill, most have a long cast time or a dumb condition also countered with poison which is VERY common nowdays, but to remove downed state anet needs to rework all base game/skills.

> > >

> > > imagine lasting less than 10 secs outside of your base only to a thief/mesmer 1 shotting you

> > >

> > > inb4 "l2p issue" as always from this forum

> >

> > Health pools would obv be abjusted. I dont treat this as a small feat its just for the sake of discussion. If anet was to go with it.

>

> the issue is bigger than adjust bigger health pools, since armor has little account in any battle nowdays, boons are common, same with vul, even putting double hp to each class will leave it as 1 shot fest for some builds, now the skill celling is another topic since most players that know what to do, do not get 1 shotted by random mesmers/thieves.

 

You can get 1 shot even during downstate in some cases its not like downstate you will die slowly.

[zengara.8301]

I believe down state is a great mechanic that provides tactics. In a 2v2, if one of ur members and opponents members are down, and you dont try to res fast=gg. The same goes for ur opponent. If they should remove downstate, they should great deathmatches

[Zorpi.5904]

If you dont stom downed you dont deserve to win the game

[zealex.9410]

And the arguemenr about "the game wouls be a oneshot fest. Well how diff is that from the 2 shot fest we have now?

[Rezzet.3614]

Necro downstate is op though

[Titan.3472]

Down State allow Rally Meme xD ( Something is wrong when 50 down people has 100% chance to rally from 1 dead guy xD -WvW- Same in pvp the whole 5 man team can rally from 1 dead lol )

[Sobx.1758]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > As other said, it is ingrained in the game combat mechanics. It is removal will require major combat adjustment.

> >

> > Will it though? Like what, for example?

>

> The hp levels factor in the down state as a second chance. Removing it will require major readjustment to hp levels and probably sustainability. There are tons of skills and traits that support Rez/stomp, that will require adjustment and/our complete overhaul.

>

> This a major change in the game mechanics. I am not arguing for it as a good or bad mechanic, but it cannot be out right removed.

 

Exactly all it will need is probably just hp adjustments, which is far from "major combat adjustment". Sustainability is and still would be fine enough. Adding a set max hp in pvp mode isn't anything hard OR major, which was my whole point here. Implementing downstate would probably be much easier than you try to make it seem.

 

Here's another good way to adjust the downstate without removing it:

 

> @"BurrTheKing.8571" said:

> I’m fine with it being a mechanic, it you should be very fragile, you should not be able to be resed while poisoned and being DPSd by two people, but Firebrand and Druid are capable of doing just that.

>

> You should die quickly while downed, basically making it only for if you happened to go down at the end of the fight.

 

All it will really do is reduce the draw situations of/vs condi builds. And that's also a decent way to do it, but currently the downstate in pvp mode is just plain stupidity.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Titan.3472" said:

> Down State allow Rally Meme xD ( Something is wrong when 50 down people has 100% chance to rally from 1 dead guy xD -WvW- Same in pvp the whole 5 man team can rally from 1 dead lol )

Something would definetly be wrong if that happened today since this was changed to a 1:1 rally on the closest player in a january 2016 patch.

[Highlie.7641]

High burst class: Looks behind him at the 1-5 downed enemy players. "good job me!"

Random teamate who comes after they are downed: "Oh! gaint red circle, i will get all de lootz if i step inside!"

5 enemy player's : "RALLY!!!!!!"

High burst class: Facepalm.

 

yup that pretty much explains my pov of the downstate. (Since gw2 launched)

[Westenev.5289]

Given the state of the meta game, I don't think removing downed state would do anything "positive" besides allowing bursty classes to hit-and-run groups more easily. If you want to remove downed state, you'd need to rebalance the game from the ground up... or else it'd be broken as kitten. It'd also make PvE less appealing, since I'll have to gear assuming every newbie who I could have saved from the downed state will die.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> Given the state of the meta game, I don't think removing downed state would do anything "positive" besides allowing bursty classes to hit-and-run groups more easily. If you want to remove downed state, you'd need to rebalance the game from the ground up... or else it'd be broken as kitten. It'd also make PvE less appealing, since I'll have to gear assuming every newbie who I could have saved from the downed state will die.

 

Nobody ever said anything about the downstate in pve, but nice comment :d

[megilandil.7506]

> @"Genesis.5169" said:

> This game has been built and balanced around having a down state removing it now will do more harm then good. But to be honestly i think anet needs to add more things to down state they were going well with HoT when they released ancient magics.

>

> All i would like is to be able to crawl while downed and make it move slower and slower while your downed stay hp decreases, and maybe downstate abilities reflecting your elite specialization like as a chrono instead of summoning an illusionary rogue you summon a well under you which freezes your downstate bar for a little, things like that i would love to see.

 

uff this is a very bad idea, problem on down state is the variety of skill per class making some ones more strong in downstate than others, downstate have to be normalized and "brilliant" ideas as vengeance, stealth/teleport/move , attaking and recovering at the same time, usng F skills while downed etc etc be avoided

[Vitali.5039]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > No downed state = OHKO fiesta, better if from stealth

> > No downed state = revive skills useless

>

> Obv revive skill would be revisited. kitten do you mean???

 

Well, say some possible changes to Ritual of Life, Life from Death and Transfusion.

And all the others traits/skills. Too much work, no?

 

> @"Mirrodin.8729" said:

> > @"Vitali.5039" said:

> > No downed state = OHKO fiesta, better if from stealth

> > No downed state = revive skills useless

>

> i havent used a single rez skill in the last 3 years besides warrior banner and ranger shout skill, most have a long cast time or a dumb condition also countered with poison which is VERY common nowdays, but to remove downed state anet needs to rework all base game/skills.

 

Sorry man but I really don't care what/how you play.

 

> imagine lasting less than 10 secs outside of your base only to a thief/mesmer 1 shotting you

>

> inb4 "l2p issue" as always from this forum

 

Wut?

 

 

[Westenev.5289]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > Given the state of the meta game, I don't think removing downed state would do anything "positive" besides allowing bursty classes to hit-and-run groups more easily. If you want to remove downed state, you'd need to rebalance the game from the ground up... or else it'd be broken as kitten. It'd also make PvE less appealing, since I'll have to gear assuming every newbie who I could have saved from the downed state will die.

>

> Nobody ever said anything about the downstate in pve, but nice comment

 

Given Anet's MO for "not splitting game modes mechanically", seeing this update in PvP and WvW would therefore affect PvE too.

[Exciton.8942]

Downstate fight is one of the most difficult situation to handle in this game.

 

It adds quite a bit of complexity into the gameplay, which is overall a good thing.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > Given the state of the meta game, I don't think removing downed state would do anything "positive" besides allowing bursty classes to hit-and-run groups more easily. If you want to remove downed state, you'd need to rebalance the game from the ground up... or else it'd be broken as kitten. It'd also make PvE less appealing, since I'll have to gear assuming every newbie who I could have saved from the downed state will die.

> >

> > Nobody ever said anything about the downstate in pve, but nice comment

>

> Given Anet's MO for "not splitting game modes mechanically", seeing this update in PvP and WvW would therefore affect PvE too.

 

No, it wouldn't and that's the whole point of this (and the other) thread. You answered after not understanding what you've read (not even the first post, but the TITLE ITSELF!) and now you're trying to explain yourself with some backwards logic...

 

 

Q: "is downed mechanic healthy/adds anything to pvp/wvw?"

Your answer: "removing it would make PvE less appealing"

10/10.

 

 

> @"Exciton.8942" said:

> It adds quite a bit of complexity into the gameplay, which is overall a good thing.

 

...what complexity? People keep throwing around these empty words instead of making an actual point. What's that "added complexity" of a downed state, which pretty much only makes the game easier for new players aaaand that's all it does? Something that makes the game way more forgiving is by no means "adding complexity".

But I can be wrong, so I'll gladly hear what you meant by writing that.

[Curunen.8729]

Yes - stomping is fun, rescue ressing is also fun.

[Westenev.5289]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > Given the state of the meta game, I don't think removing downed state would do anything "positive" besides allowing bursty classes to hit-and-run groups more easily. If you want to remove downed state, you'd need to rebalance the game from the ground up... or else it'd be broken as kitten. It'd also make PvE less appealing, since I'll have to gear assuming every newbie who I could have saved from the downed state will die.

> > >

> > > Nobody ever said anything about the downstate in pve, but nice comment

> >

> > Given Anet's MO for "not splitting game modes mechanically", seeing this update in PvP and WvW would therefore affect PvE too.

>

> No, it wouldn't and that's the whole point of this (and the other) thread. You answered after not understanding what you've read (not even the first post, but the TITLE ITSELF!) and now you're trying to explain yourself with some backwards logic...

>

>

> Q: "is downed mechanic healthy/adds anything to pvp/wvw?"

> Your answer: "removing it would make PvE less appealing"

> 10/10.

 

Oh, I read the post, and I'm using logic this thread fails to take into account, mostly for the benefit of small minded individuals who can't see beyond what they want. Although my opinion is out of scope of the question, I think the question is BS and doesn't take everything into consideration - as do a good number of posters on this forum.

 

In my opinion, if Anet were to make any changes to the downed state, it would have to be a change they could lazily staple across all 3 game modes.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > @"Westenev.5289" said:

> > > > > Given the state of the meta game, I don't think removing downed state would do anything "positive" besides allowing bursty classes to hit-and-run groups more easily. If you want to remove downed state, you'd need to rebalance the game from the ground up... or else it'd be broken as kitten. It'd also make PvE less appealing, since I'll have to gear assuming every newbie who I could have saved from the downed state will die.

> > > >

> > > > Nobody ever said anything about the downstate in pve, but nice comment

> > >

> > > Given Anet's MO for "not splitting game modes mechanically", seeing this update in PvP and WvW would therefore affect PvE too.

> >

> > No, it wouldn't and that's the whole point of this (and the other) thread. You answered after not understanding what you've read (not even the first post, but the TITLE ITSELF!) and now you're trying to explain yourself with some backwards logic...

> >

> >

> > Q: "is downed mechanic healthy/adds anything to pvp/wvw?"

> > Your answer: "removing it would make PvE less appealing"

> > 10/10.

>

> Oh, I read the post, and I'm using logic this thread fails to take into account, mostly for the benefit of small minded individuals who can't see beyond what they want. Although my opinion is out of scope of the question, I think the question is BS and doesn't take everything into consideration - as do a good number of posters on this forum.

>

> In my opinion, if Anet were to make any changes to the downed state, it would have to be a change they could lazily staple across all 3 game modes.

 

No i understand this would require more than just the small numerical changes they do usually. Much like it would require a bigger cjange to split the entire function of torment and confusion in wvw and pvp.