Embered.5089 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Edit: I think that this thread has been suitably answered, but feel free to add your last thoughts :3 “Best” conclusions: - Charrs were once more prey-like and had more need for their horns, but they stayed due to social/mating selection - Horns were never used in relation to their food chain status, but instead are symbols (whether evolutionary or socially) of their herd (or warband) mentality - It’s a fantasy game. Let’s mix horns, claws, manes and fangs all into one animal! Thanks to all who contributed :D this was fun. Original post: While rolling around my bed and refusing to get up, I realized why the horns on a charr look weird. Have I ever seen a predator with horns? Predators (without horns) Big cats Alligator T-rex Wolf Bear Prey (with horns) Bull Deer Antelope Elephant (edit: actually, no horns. just tusks—although come to think about it, they kinda serve the same function) Triceratops Now I realize thay elephants are not usually seen as “prey” due to their size, but you cannot argue that they are passive creatures that do not munch on animals. And bulls are mean, but they’re still male cows. Back to the topic at hand. As you can see, a hornless predator would be that cat which your charr resembles, but that horned bull would also be that animal which your charr resembles. So, I have to ask—is the charr predator or prey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Given some of the other stuff in the world of Tyria, I think I'd say "Both". They are large carnivores, but they are far from the largest. They eat a lot of things, and some things will try to eat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embered.5089 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Palador.2170" said: > They are large carnivores, but they are far from the largest. They eat a lot of things, and some things will try to eat them. What eats a charr? (Or even a big cat?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineManXX.9746 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Embered.5089" said: > > @"Palador.2170" said: > > They are large carnivores, but they are far from the largest. They eat a lot of things, and some things will try to eat them. > > What eats a charr? > (Or even a big cat?) Raptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Horns don't really have anything to do with being prey animals: it is about mating displays and social structure. As such I see no real issue with an apex predator with horns evolving somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palador.2170 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Raptors. Dragons. There is (was?) an event where some griffons try to carry off some charr cubs. Wargs. Tigers. Drunk and transformed norn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I think you're right that there are no carnivores with horns in real life. At least not mammals, some carnivorous reptiles are pretty spikey, but the closest I can think of for a mammal is a walrus, and they have tusks, not horns. However charr aren't from Earth so they don't need to follow the same rules. I don't think there's any reason a carnivore couldn't have horns, as long as they didn't get in the way when they're trying to grab prey. As for charr they definitely eat meat. They can also eat fruit and vegetables, but I'm not sure if that's purely for the sake of game mechanics (it'd be pretty annoying if charr characters couldn't use any food that's not meat) or if they're actually omnivorous in lore, but given that a lot of Ascalon is populated with cattle ranches and they have an entire festival devoted to meat (Meatoberfest, in Butcher's Block) I think it's safe to assume it's a major part of their diet. And they don't have any natural predators - there's nothing that regularly eats charr. If there was it was wiped out a long time ago (like anything that would prey on humans in real life). But there are **a lot** of bigger predators in Tyria and I'm sure most of them would eat the charr given a chance. Examples include wyverns, hydras, basically all the carnivorous saurians, possibly griffons, sharks and karka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 What is odd though is the fact that Charr have horns _and_ manes since in big cats that have them they serve as the same sort of purpose that horns/antlers do in other animals. I guess Charr are just super into social heiarchies and stuff. Which makes sense when you consider that their entire culture is run like a military, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danikat.8537 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > What is odd though is the fact that Charr have horns _and_ manes since in big cats that have them they serve as the same sort of purpose that horns/antlers do in other animals. > > I guess Charr are just super into social heiarchies and stuff. Which makes sense when you consider that their entire culture is run like a military, I guess. It's not unheard of for an animal to have 2 or more secondary sexual characteristics. Look at bowerbirds - the males have bright plumage which they use to attract a mate (by doing a dance) but they also build elaborate and often colour-coordinated nests to achieve the same thing. And they need both to actually get a mate. It's possible, given the complexity of charr society, that their manes and horns serve different purposes. For example maybe they'd use their horns for fighting to establish dominance, which would help attract a mate, but no one cares how their horns look and the mane is what makes them physically attractive. Or it could be that ideally they need both. Of course charr fighting techniques and social structure have developed beyond the point of bashing their heads together to establish dominance...except maybe the Blood Legion, who don't use it for much else (Ash Legion FTW!). And we know next to nothing about charr courtship except that you can get inter-legion couples and they appear to stay together only until the cubs are weaned. So it's difficult to know exactly what features are considered important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 in nature, regardless of planet or otherwise, everything needs a purpose. horns by it self is a defense mechanism, it allows the animal to charge in case of a threat or fight off other males to show supremacy. charrs on the other hand have no reason to have horns, they are just there and none of them ever use them for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blur.3465 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 It's a fantasy race! That can bring up a question, are dragons prey because they have horns? :open_mouth: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Blur.3465" said: > It's a fantasy race! > > That can bring up a question, are dragons prey because they have horns? :open_mouth: they do have tails :| i heard the priory or whatever their called, liked to collect dargon tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blur.3465 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > they do have tails :| i heard the priory or whatever their called, liked to collect dargon tails. True, they do. Charr have horns and tails, I better watch out with my Charr. All these trophy hunters, mhm. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Blur.3465" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > they do have tails :| i heard the priory or whatever their called, liked to collect dargon tails. > > True, they do. > Charr have horns and tails, I better watch out with my Charr. All these trophy hunters, mhm. xD > And furr.... Charr Coat : Reduces damage by 20% from Charr's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"Blur.3465" said: > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > they do have tails :| i heard the priory or whatever their called, liked to collect dargon tails. > > > > True, they do. > > Charr have horns and tails, I better watch out with my Charr. All these trophy hunters, mhm. xD > > > > And furr.... Charr Coat : Reduces damage by 20% from Charr's. Wasn't there a thing about humans making armour/clothing out of Charr in GW1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > @"Blur.3465" said: > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > > they do have tails :| i heard the priory or whatever their called, liked to collect dargon tails. > > > > > > True, they do. > > > Charr have horns and tails, I better watch out with my Charr. All these trophy hunters, mhm. xD > > > > > > > And furr.... Charr Coat : Reduces damage by 20% from Charr's. > > Wasn't there a thing about humans making armour/clothing out of Charr in GW1? > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Charr_Hide_armor is also has it prestige version: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Elite_Charr_Hide_armor and: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr_Hide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blur.3465 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 *Hides somewhere safe.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Blur.3465" said: > *Hides somewhere safe.* I could "hide" ur hides away on my stall stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blur.3465 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"Blur.3465" said: > > *Hides somewhere safe.* > > I could "hide" ur hides away on my stall stand. Gasp! I miss the times when Charr were the aggressors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astral Projections.7320 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 That’s an interesting question OP. I tried googling horned predators and came up with very little. This is my take on horns. Horns appear when the animal doesn’t have fangs to threaten/intimidate others or to defend itself with. Since Charr have fangs it’s unusual that they would also have horns. However it’s biting teeth/meat eating that make a predator so Charr are predators and the horns are an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yeah it's kitten....  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty.6219 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 While it is true for modern animals that predators don't have horns, there are plenty of fossil records of carnivore dinosaurs with horn like skull structures :3 I would say that charrs are mainly predators, with a hint of cow here and there in the horns and male tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Plot twist: Charr developed weapons and started warbands to protect themselves from their unseen predators...the Quaggans. The Quaggans act like they can't fight so the Charr players don't catch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > > @"Blur.3465" said: > > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > > > > they do have tails :| i heard the priory or whatever their called, liked to collect dargon tails. > > > > > > > > True, they do. > > > > Charr have horns and tails, I better watch out with my Charr. All these trophy hunters, mhm. xD > > > > > > > > > > And furr.... Charr Coat : Reduces damage by 20% from Charr's. > > > > Wasn't there a thing about humans making armour/clothing out of Charr in GW1? > > > > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Charr_Hide_armor > > is also has it prestige version: > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Elite_Charr_Hide_armor > > and: > > https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Charr_Hide That's so friggin' messed up in retrospect, LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Could be that the Charr were actually omnivorous/opportunity carnivores way back when but as they evolved to better pack hunting tactics + social bonds, the horns went from a multi-use defensive/social display to a purely social display, using them for ceremonial adornment and hierarchical status. If the higher status males and females with the larger horns were the choice to breed and to lead, you'd get more offspring with these characteristics thus this characteristic would persist. I don't think Charr put much emphasis on horns for status now, but it will take a long while for the trait to finally be bred out as vestigial. But in the meantime, I always say: They're like a cat's grace on the battlefield like an ox in stature like a lion in roar and stomach like a bull in horn and temper like a horse where it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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